How to nerf Herald/Renegade without killing it

[Kuma.1503]

> @"cek.5478" said:

> Everybody talking about condi thief but the real problem is revenant to me.. OP on every single game mode and actually i never seen such an op class like this ever. This is for pvp lets see what they have.

>

> Evades, Blocks, Blinds, Insane condi spamming, endless CCs (immoblize, slow, knockdown, knockback etc..), they gaining fury and might without doing anything and sharing it like a joke. Every single revenant playing with 25 mights, fury, resistance and protection with heavy armor. Worst april fool joke!

>

> A true solution remove Herald! But anet never gonna do that for new care baby, golden child whatever. So what can be done. I suggest remove might from dragon stance and add a thing like necro carapice. If its gonna be unlimited stack, make it 1 power each. if limited with 25 make it 3 power each and remove sharing.

 

Herald is undesired in PVE. It's outclassed by Renegade in every way. (Renegade can even pull ~34k power dps when gifting out soulcleave so it doesn't even have that going for it).

 

Renegade does well in PvE, but its job can also be done by a competent boon Chrono. The only reason why you take it is because it's the only other class besides chrono capable of gifting out perma Alacrity. Take that away, and the only thing Rev would have going for it across both elite specs is a single condition damage build.

 

If Anet ever decides to buff Chrono again, there's a good chance it will fall out of favor in min/max PvE.

 

In short. Herald overperforms in PvP. Is "playable" in PvE

Renegade is fine power wise (but annoying) in PvP. Strong in PvE

Core is underpowered in PvE. Okay in PvP.

 

I wouldn't call it broken in every game mode, but it has a place in the meta wherever it goes.

 

[Shao.7236]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > They aren't over performing.

> >

> > They sure as hell cannot be facerolled either, Herald cRev is easier to an extend with F2 Mallyx Range but that's about it.

> >

> > If you were to play properly, you'd know how the majority of Renegades and Heralds are doing it wrong and are free kills, because Revs can 1+ easily doesn't mean they are OP when you can deny them with simple CC's unless it's Core which you have to be more patient with, Renegades very often take initiative first and are left with nothing, should you not fall for it with reckless action it'll be an easy kill too.

>

> Malyx/Glint can be facerolled. I learned it in 5-6 hours of play, then did a few matches in Plat 2, only focusing on my defensive ability rotations and nothing else. I was taking so much heat while cc'ing the enemy team, while my teammates cleaned up. It has an extremely low skill floor. High ceiling as well, and when played by a decent player it's entirely busted.

>

> It shouldn't be able to bunker to the extent it does.

>

> I don't want it to be killed, but either its defensive capacity, or cc need to be shaved.

 

Well let me elaborate to you, ever since the patch;

 

Herald is absolutely the worst at stunbreaking which also makes Herald cRev also the easiest to stunlock. Herald Shiro is honestly the inferior build of all in the stack because it doesn't have neither have Revenant main benefits and can be easily stunlock, people keep it alive because they're unable to understand core rev. The people you facerolled clearly didn't know what to do, Warrior alone can obliterate any Heralds.

 

Renegade is the easiest to predict, has little to surprise anyone with. Is pretty much a statue and should only ever be used to guard anything. If you're using Darkrazor offensively and nobody is focusing you, you're guaranteed to win because no one is taking opportunity to destroy you. Another bigger badder way that most Renegades play is not supporting their summons with stability which for me as a Core Rev means also easy control.

 

Core Revenant is given the most utility but has no i-frames whatsoever. cRev Core has been pretty much overnerfed by the lost of PP which is not the delay to blame but the removal of 1 condition on transfer as well as the damage on EtD when the real problem was CtA. Power Core can be successful given it's not facing extreme condition spam, it's probably the strongest rev build to duel with otherwise because of it's ability to shut down anything while keeping great resilience if you're able to consistently weaken foes/RotGD condi bursts with hammers at the same time of being offensive.

 

Never in all my games (To which I haven't been playing as much recently.) that I have played recently have I seen Revenant plays well enough to be bothersome to my team, at best one Power Herald that kept +1ing a dummy feeding. If they were more of a common annoyance, I'm sure I'd be more aware of it. Seems more like players aren't aware of how conquest works.

 

> @"MysteryMen.3791" said:

> > @"Shao.7236" said:

> > They aren't over performing.

> >

> > They sure as hell cannot be facerolled either, Herald cRev is easier to an extend with F2 Mallyx Range but that's about it.

> >

> > If you were to play properly, you'd know how the majority of Renegades and Heralds are doing it wrong and are free kills, because Revs can 1+ easily doesn't mean they are OP when you can deny them with simple CC's unless it's Core which you have to be more patient with, Renegades very often take initiative first and are left with nothing, should you not fall for it with reckless action it'll be an easy kill too.

>

> in what universe could you say that condi rev isn't overperforming? It has so much resistance to condis that a regular condi build can't do any damage to it and it has great cleave as well. Not to mention rev as a whole dominates top tier ranked and the mAT at the moment so I ask again, how is that considered standard performance?

 

You're the one that would pretty much dominate me when I played Herald cRev with your tactic warrior, only have I been able to have a fighting chance on Core and I remember winning a fair amount of match ups against you later on duo FB but only because you focused me tanking and not the FB supporting.

 

I would like to know why aren't people smarter in mAT's to know how it works because neither do I see myself losing to these people (Zyn, Jones and Mark are the only Herald cRevs I can think of.) Whom have been adopting the so called 3 year old build I used to play aren't problematic to me either. To me it sounds more like bad match ups, they can still go right ahead and nerf F2, I have been saying that since the grand balance patch that they have should done it, otherwise Herald cRev is pretty much balanced, Core cRev is almost non existent and Renegade cRev is non existent altogether.

 

Resistance is overrated, it's not better than cleansing. In fact, Herald has less Resistance than Core and it's quite easy to strip it because it's the thing that pulses the most in a team fight and it's only in team fights that they can get so much too. Boon Strip Condi Mes I'd say would easily scare it off and I've had the chance to witness it a few time with Kybraga, should anyone face a team of Herald cRev know that they have no mobility as well just avoid them altogether if they can't deal with it. It's not uncommon that people have bad match ups anyway.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

[in the corner not having any problems with any revenant variants that were not a result of me failing to dodge deathstrike on zerker thief]

 

Some people have done this, but for the majority of people claiming Rev is Overpowered, can you point to what specifically is causing it to be overpowered?

 

Regarding OP:

 

> @"Skyronight.6370" said:

> The reason why condition herald is overpowered is because of these 2 traits, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Defiance , https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fiendish_Tenacity

> condi herald is able to maintain near perma resistance which basically makes it immune to condi builds which is obviously game breaking to be almost immune to 1 source of damage...

 

> ..an easy fx would be to reduce the resistance on both of these traits by 1 second and revert the energy cost so **condi rev dosent have to waste his entiere energy bar just to be able to use a break stun.**

 

That bolded right there is the counterplay to that build though. Condi Herald is weak to direct damage, Power Herald is weak to Condi damage. Both variants are weak to CC, and that weakness is intended. It took a long time before the devs were even comfortable adding a breakstun to Mallyx.

 

Asking for the resistance uptime to go down, when Mallyx regularly inflicts itself indiscriminately with conditions as part of its design, then asking for the stunbreak to be made more lenient as compensation sounds like "I play a condi build and refuse to take CC to deal with this."

Any stun in Mallyx heavily empties their resource pool to clear.

 

 

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Darkrazor%27s_Daring , its a pulsing aoe daze thats insta cast and has a massive aoe, it just promotes lazy gameplay , kinda like symbol brand by just being able to spam aoe with minimal effort and without having to land any abilities. Simply make this skill only daze one time when used instead of a pulsing daze.

 

No. you can make it smaller or whatever, but you shouldn't decrease the utility on it to that extent. It's not worth one daze.

 

> Renegade sustain is also too high because of the life steal from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soulcleave%27s_Summit . Reduce the life siphon healing by10-15% to shave the sustain on renegade and make it less tankier.

 

I mean... Apart from Mad King Runes (which are a meme, I maintain that) you have to be standing in soulcleaves summit to get that Lifesteal so... remove Mad King runes I guess?

[Skyronight.6370]

I wish they nerfed condi damage alltogether and not just condi rev, because condi rev isint even as cancerous as burn guards, or triple scourge teams in the 3v3 that ive seen today. if we are forced to play a perma resistance build that means maybe just maybe condis are also over the top.

[duster.7013]

change their resistance to be less pulsing and more durationy so it can be stripped easier.

[Shao.7236]

> @"duster.7013" said:

> change their resistance to be less pulsing and more durationy so it can be stripped easier.

 

Mallyx Resistance doesn't pulse.

[anjo.6143]

Wait, there is some ppl thinking rev is not overperforming? Oh my

[Skyronight.6370]

> @"anjo.6143" said:

> Wait, there is some ppl thinking rev is not overperforming? Oh my

 

its because of delusion, im a main rev and all i see in 3v3s is crev, fb and necro comps, i dont see anything else. its why im trying to bring in some ideas on how to nerf rev without making it useless like they did to chrono and druid etc

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Skyronight.6370" said:

> > @"anjo.6143" said:

> > Wait, there is some ppl thinking rev is not overperforming? Oh my

>

> its because of delusion, im a main rev and all i see in 3v3s is crev, fb and necro comps, i dont see anything else. its why im trying to bring in some ideas on how to nerf rev without making it useless like they did to chrono and druid etc

 

Power revs not crazy OP, crev is simply cuz condi in general wasn't hit as hard as power, that and the fact of the condi skills being designed with condi being in a less overperforming state leads to issues. Burn guards, ele's, condo thieves etc are all overturned cuz condi is still overturned. I'm not say classes like burn guards are crazy OP as a whole but in their respect their burn damage is definitely overturned as a example.