If Turret engi got gutted years ago, then Flamethrower scrapper needs to go

[Novuake.2691]

This build isnt super strong or meta but the skill floor is absolutely dirt low for how obnoxious it is to fight on some classes.

 

Remove the line sight ignoring and reduce the damage by 25%. The effectiveness is too high for just sitting there pressing 1.

Alternatively nuked the stability uptime. Thats cancerous as well even with just one stack.

[Tharan.9085]

Never ever saw an even barely usefull scrapper with flamethrower

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

they should never have nerfed power on 2nd flamer skill. imo 2nd skill should do the power damage and the auto should be weaker.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Novuake.2691" said:

> This build isnt super strong or meta but the skill floor is absolutely dirt low for how obnoxious it is to fight on some classes.

 

Why are you nuking it because it's annoying? You yourself said it wasnt strong. It's fine to have low skill builds in the game as long as they arent overperforming.

 

Turret Engie was able to stand on a point and effectively pressure any flip attempts without doing anything but setting up the turrets.

Flamethrower Scrapper has to spec glass to do damage to you and still has to mitigate its own incoming damage. It's hardly as oppressive as turret engie was. Let them have their meme.

[Aktium.9506]

It is a pretty bad build with the exception of some caps on some maps where they can pressure out of LoS behind terrain. Then it kinda feels like trying to fight a Ranger with no cooldown on Barrage.

 

While it feels dumb as heck it's really not a problem.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

It does a lot of damage cuz burning is a OP condition right now as well as being brainless spam build like a lot of the current meta builds but it differs in the fact the build has almost zero value for the team, less than DE even. No teammate has ever said wow thank god we had that flamethrower engie.

[Shiyo.3578]

Flamethrower scrapper should not exist.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@"Shiyo.3578"

 

~~Flamethrower scrapper~~ The class / build I dislike should not exist.

There, fixed.

 

[Shiyo.3578]

For the health of the game not every build should be playable. It's as simple as that.

[pninak.1069]

I kinda agree, but I use the same skills for my condi holo aswell. currently running 100% burn build. Plan to switch to max out on all condi duration next.

[Kodama.6453]

I never imagined I would actually witness someone complaining about flamethrower scrappers, lol.

[Shiyo.3578]

Lynx pet needs to be looked into as well.

[Chaith.8256]

Intellectual forum users: Turret engi was nerfed, ERGO, any build I deem equally un-fun must be also.

 

Flamethrower Scrapper will get nerfed when put in the hands of a houseplant it can 1v1 with the best of them by placing turrets and auto-ing. Summoner classes that just faceroll their summons and run around in circles, doing passive lethal damage - this is what's not allowed in the game. Traited stability while permanently in Flamethrower has always and probably will always exist.

[Shiyo.3578]

Wasn't the OP of this thread someone defending turret eng when I called it out back in vanilla? Or was that chaith?

[Koensol.5860]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> It does a lot of damage cuz burning is a OP condition right now as well as being brainless spam build like a lot of the current meta builds but it differs in the fact the build has almost zero value for the team, less than DE even. No teammate has ever said wow thank god we had that flamethrower engie.

 

Not that I'm saying FT scrapper is anywhere close to a meta group spec or anything, because its obviously not, but thats a load of nonsense from you in one post. And it shows you don't know what you are talking about. First of all, the damage from flamethrower doesn't come from burning, it is mostly pure power damage with 25 might stacks if built the right way with traits, skills and sigils. Burning is just a side effect and won't be that great as most people just move out of the fire field.

 

And the other part which is nonsense is the no group support part. I like how you are able to conclude that a build has zero value because of 1 single kit it happens to use. I suppose the below things are all considered useless to the group:

- Ability to stomp/ress multiple people at once with function giro on 25 sec cd

- AoE group purge with purge giro on a 20 sec cd with a light field attached, turning every condi into a boon with purity of purpose trait

- 2 ways to provide AoE might stacks to the group: FT 4 into FT 2 and blast giro

- Easy access to AoE swiftness for the group with long duration

- 3 AoE cc's, one of which is an unblockable knockback (blast giro) with insane launch distance, which has great value in disrupting resses and decapping points or in situations like capricorn bell phase

- With elite mortar kit you add 4 different combo fields (poison, ice, light and water) pulsing 5 times allowing for great point pressure, dmg negation and combo possibility for the group. In total that brings you to 10 combo fields (6 unique types) with 6 finishers.

- 2 sources of AoE poison (also poison fields) which can be dropped on downed bodies and to pressure healers/bunkers

- Easy access to AoE blinds

- If you decide to use bulwark giro in stead of any of the above you also bring 6 seconds of AoE stability and projectile negation

- With medkit as a heal you can also bring another AoE cleanse and a source of AoE vigor and swiftness. Or with heal turret you gain the ability to give a nice burst heal to group mates.

 

Sure, the flamethrower itself is a simple kit thats very easy to use. But just spamming 1 won't be that great unless your team overpowers the opposition and you have time to freecast non stop. You are squishy and do have to set your dmg up with the right combo's to make sure you have superspeed, stability and swiftness (for 15% dmg from object in motion trait) and get your might to 25 stacks when the quickness procs. Its not very hard to do though, and I think the 100% stability is definately over the top. There should definately be some downtime on that. It just triggers me when people say you just spam 1.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> Summoner classes that just faceroll their summons and run around in circles, doing passive lethal damage - this is what's not allowed in the game.

 

That's what "summoner class" in all games do and they are balanced around that (lack of mobility etc), but for some reason 7 classes have summons in this game lol.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > Summoner classes that just faceroll their summons and run around in circles, doing passive lethal damage - this is what's not allowed in the game.

>

> That's what "summoner class" in all games do and they are balanced around that (lack of mobility etc), but for some reason 7 classes have summons in this game lol.

 

Yeah usually it's balanced around something. Like the high damage A.I spammer being squishy for one, instead of sentinel amulet and all defensive traits.

 

@"Shiyo.3578" the guy who questioned if I was defending degenerate Turret Engineer at some point, the answer is no. Pro players at the time were overall really against it.

 

@"Koensol.5860" Summarizing every skill worded in an impressed, incredulous way, without having the bar set for comparison.

 

For example, if you are impressed by 3 AoE CC's every 30 seconds, two of which last one second and the third having a 3 second charged telegraph, that's inarguably less disruption compared to Necro, all Rev specs, firebrand, or a shared shocking aura alone. Scrapper CC is third rate, impressive indeed.

 

One other thing, you are listing hammer, mortar, and optional medkit abilities in this build. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's going to drop your stability uptime from 100% via sitting in flamethrower on average.

 

The reason why FT is subpar even for subpar Scrapper is because you can already approach high levels of stability if you take other build options like Bulwark Gyro, Elixir B, and Mass Momentum. You can keep high stability uptime, have a much more reliable team revive by having stability for your gyro (don't bother trying without this), have high might stacks too.

 

Having tons of stability in different Scrapper builds doesn't fix the scrapper problem of doing no damage to players who aren't point-committed to eating your damage. The top several specs are often also boasting different mixes of decent support & survivability as well as often being ahead on follow through damage & CC. All Rev specs come to mind, also Necro, Holo, FB, Bunker Soulbeast, Tempest. With Thief being a lock, where you think that leaves your so praised FT Scrapper, lol

 

 

[Koensol.5860]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > Summoner classes that just faceroll their summons and run around in circles, doing passive lethal damage - this is what's not allowed in the game.

> >

> > That's what "summoner class" in all games do and they are balanced around that (lack of mobility etc), but for some reason 7 classes have summons in this game lol.

>

> Yeah usually it's balanced around something. Like the high damage A.I spammer being squishy for one, instead of sentinel amulet and all defensive traits.

>

> @"Shiyo.3578" the guy who questioned if I was defending degenerate Turret Engineer at some point, the answer is no. Pro players at the time were overall really against it.

>

> @"Koensol.5860" Summarizing every skill worded in an impressed, incredulous way, without having the bar set for comparison.

>

> For example, if you are impressed by 3 AoE CC's every 30 seconds, two of which last one second and the third having a 3 second charged telegraph, that's inarguably less disruption compared to Necro, all Rev specs, firebrand, or a shared shocking aura alone. Scrapper CC is third rate, impressive indeed.

>

> One other thing, you are listing hammer, mortar, and optional medkit abilities in this build. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that's going to drop your stability uptime from 100% via sitting in flamethrower on average.

>

> The reason why FT is subpar even for subpar Scrapper is because you can already approach high levels of stability if you take other build options like Bulwark Gyro, Elixir B, and Mass Momentum. You can keep high stability uptime, have a much more reliable team revive by having stability for your gyro (don't bother trying without this), have high might stacks too.

>

> Having tons of stability in different Scrapper builds doesn't fix the scrapper problem of doing no damage to players who aren't point-committed to eating your damage. The top several specs are often also boasting different mixes of decent support & survivability as well as often being ahead on follow through damage & CC. All Rev specs come to mind, also Necro, Holo, FB, Bunker Soulbeast, Tempest. With Thief being a lock, where you think that leaves your so praised FT Scrapper, lol

>

>

 

Nice cherry picking you've got going on there on the cc subject. I think you missed the line where I said its obviously not a meta group spec. All I'm trying to say is the notion of "it brings zero group value, even less than DE" is not true, which the guy I responded to said. In no way am I trying to say it is superior than any other build/class that you mentioned. Just saying you can add plenty of group support with the way you set it up (I mentioned bullwark giro also). I agree with the other issues you mentioned though about scrapper. I just hate when people fall into hyperbole and flat statements when they don't even have a clue how the class works.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Koensol.5860" said:

> Nice cherry picking you've got going on there on the cc subject. I think you missed the line where I said its obviously not a meta group spec. All I'm trying to say is the notion of "it brings zero group value, even less than DE" is not true, which the guy I responded to said. In no way am I trying to say it is superior than any other build/class that you mentioned. Just saying you can add plenty of group support with the way you set it up (I mentioned bullwark giro also). I agree with the other issues you mentioned though about scrapper. I just hate when people fall into hyperbole and flat statements when they don't even have a clue how the class works.

 

The hyperbole is also strong with you too, just pointing that out. You made 3 separate bullet points largely for Mortar, one for Mortar's combo fields, and two separate points to include the poison field and the blind access. lol. How do you feel I'm cherrypicking your CC bullet point? Scrapper CC is bottom of the barrel, it does other stuff way better.

[Koensol.5860]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Koensol.5860" said:

> > Nice cherry picking you've got going on there on the cc subject. I think you missed the line where I said its obviously not a meta group spec. All I'm trying to say is the notion of "it brings zero group value, even less than DE" is not true, which the guy I responded to said. In no way am I trying to say it is superior than any other build/class that you mentioned. Just saying you can add plenty of group support with the way you set it up (I mentioned bullwark giro also). I agree with the other issues you mentioned though about scrapper. I just hate when people fall into hyperbole and flat statements when they don't even have a clue how the class works.

>

> The hyperbole is also strong with you too, just pointing that out. You made 3 separate bullet points largely for Mortar, one for Mortar's combo fields, and two separate points to include the poison field and the blind access. lol. How do you feel I'm cherrypicking your CC bullet point? Scrapper CC is bottom of the barrel, it does other stuff way better.

 

It's okay, Chaith. You obviously want to believe that I think scrapper cc is top tier, even when I literally said what the point of my post was. But it's cool anyway, dude.

 

I'll admit the structure of my post could have been done more efficiently and concise, but that has nothing to do with hyperbole. It just means I didn't care enough to reread it 10 times as if it's some essay.

 

Anyway, that's it for me. Point is made. Feel free to disagree ;)

[Chaith.8256]

> @"Koensol.5860" said:

> It's okay, Chaith. You obviously want to believe that I think scrapper cc is top tier, even when I literally said what the point of my post was.

 

No I'm not trying to mis-characterize you, to illustrate the point I think that a Deadeye with Binding Shadow & immobilize combo is more relevant CC than Scrapper's Blast Gyro, Flamethrower, and Hammer #5. It's clearly not top tier, yes we agree