Shiyo.3578 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 Sword/pistol could be buffed in PvE and be competitive for PvE without doing anything in any other modes since it's a relatively underused weapon combination now. Sword auto's are good cleave, blind powder is super nice for staying alive, headshot is good break, and pistol whip should be good DPS but is a loss over autoing(why??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. I hear numbers being thrown around about ideal 35k DPS up to 40k DPS and I’m like...if everyone was at a comfortable 15k you’d probably clear the content easily. Most pugs aren’t going to reach 10k anyway. And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. Some people find it fun to try their best and improve their ability, as opposed to coasting through life doing the bare minimum required of them. Some people also like to compete for fast clear times of bosses which relies on working together as a team all pushing out maximum DPS. > @"saerni.2584" said: > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. That's part of the fun. To perform your best, despite mechanics trying to prevent you from doing that. Positioning so that you have to dodge fewer attacks, making sure that you stay above 90% life (For Runes of the Scholar bonuses), maintaining uptime on the boss, performing your rotation properly etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. > > Some people find it fun to try their best and improve their ability, as opposed to coasting through life doing the bare minimum required of them. > > Some people also like to compete for fast clear times of bosses which relies on working together as a team all pushing out maximum DPS. > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. > > That's part of the fun. To perform your best, despite mechanics trying to prevent you from doing that. Positioning so that you have to dodge fewer attacks, making sure that you stay above 90% life (For Runes of the Scholar bonuses), maintaining uptime on the boss, performing your rotation properly etc. Not sure I appreciate your tone here. No need to throw around insinuations of people “coasting through life.” I understand other people find enjoyment value in reaching some maximum damage potential. That’s why I said “personally.” I’m also not saying a player shouldn’t build for damage, I do that in PvP (to a reasonable degree) so I can effectively contribute. I’m saying at a certain point you gain very little benefit because you will be still be doing 200% or more of the average damage of everyone else. You will be performing above the standard required by the content by far. Speed runs aside I don’t see the point. If I have to swap to D/D to maintain DPS but that doesn’t suit the encounter, I might just stay in rifle and not worry that my DPS isn’t super optimized (even if I’m still higher than 95% of the other people). But that’s me. It’s not a value judgment. You and anyone else is free to make their own choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. Nothing is "required" anywhere. People min-max because they can and they want to. You can hop on your teammates backs and play through the whole content by pressing 1 (and no, I'm not saying that's what you do -but you can! ), but I'm not sure how that's an argument here. You've condescendingly asked "how do you run out of stealth on DE". I told you how: by trying to maximize class' potential. Now you're getting defensive and pivot into "WHO NEEDS IT?!". Whether it's needed or not was never the point of discussion here. What exactly do you not understand about what I've said? > I hear numbers being thrown around about ideal 35k DPS up to 40k DPS and I’m like...if everyone was at a comfortable 15k you’d probably clear the content easily. Most pugs aren’t going to reach 10k anyway. You don't need to tell me that. And I don't see how that's relevant in this comment chain at all. > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. And yet, if you execute the rotation, you will run out of stealth. Which is also why I wrote in my initial response to your condescending question: "By not being slow with your rotations I guess" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. > > Nothing is "required" anywhere. People min-max because they can and they want to. You can hop on your teammates backs and play through the whole content by pressing 1, but I'm not sure how that's any argument here. > > You've condescendingly asked "how do you run out of stealth on DE". I told you how: by trying to maximize class' potential. Now you're getting defensive and pivot into "WHO NEEDS IT?!". Whether it's needed or not was never a point of discussion here. What exactly do you not understand about what I've said? > > > I hear numbers being thrown around about ideal 35k DPS up to 40k DPS and I’m like...if everyone was at a comfortable 15k you’d probably clear the content easily. Most pugs aren’t going to reach 10k anyway. > > You don't need to tell me that. And I don't see how that's relevant in this comment chain at all. > > > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. > > And yet, if you execute the rotation, you will run out of stealth. Which is also why I wrote in my initial response to your condescending question: > "By not being slow with your rotations I guess" How is that condescending? It was a genuine question and you answered it. My comments after that aren’t attacks just side observations. I don’t see why you seem to think I’m somehow attacking you, that isn’t my intention at all. Like, I get this is kind of par the course for this forum and it’s easy to assume the worst in people...so I can only say that wasn’t the intention and hope you take that as sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > > > > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. > > > > Nothing is "required" anywhere. People min-max because they can and they want to. You can hop on your teammates backs and play through the whole content by pressing 1, but I'm not sure how that's any argument here. > > > > You've condescendingly asked "how do you run out of stealth on DE". I told you how: by trying to maximize class' potential. Now you're getting defensive and pivot into "WHO NEEDS IT?!". Whether it's needed or not was never a point of discussion here. What exactly do you not understand about what I've said? > > > > > I hear numbers being thrown around about ideal 35k DPS up to 40k DPS and I’m like...if everyone was at a comfortable 15k you’d probably clear the content easily. Most pugs aren’t going to reach 10k anyway. > > > > You don't need to tell me that. And I don't see how that's relevant in this comment chain at all. > > > > > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. > > > > And yet, if you execute the rotation, you will run out of stealth. Which is also why I wrote in my initial response to your condescending question: > > "By not being slow with your rotations I guess" > > How is that condescending? It was a genuine question and you answered it. My comments after that aren’t attacks just side observations. I don’t see why you seem to think I’m somehow attacking you, that isn’t my intention at all. > > Like, I get this is kind of par the course for this forum and it’s easy to assume the worst in people...so I can only say that wasn’t the intention and hope you take that as sincere. Ok then. It just looked a little weird to me when after the answer you've started saying it isn't needed and why people would even do that. I wasn't telling you -or anyone else- how to play the game. I'm well aware you don't need to be anywhere near the top of the dps charts to comfortably complete the content in this game (and I think that's a good thing) and that's pretty much what I've already wrote in other threads some time ago. Like you said, apparently I misjudged your intentions, no hard feelings here o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? > > > > > > > > > > In pve? By not being slow with your rotations I guess. Unless you're using silent scope which is your choice, but still not sure why you're so surprised here. > > > > > > > > I meant with Silent Scope. > > > > > > > > Not that I’m trying to max out my damage or anything but...it seems sufficient. > > > > > > Well, trying to max out dmg makes you run out of stealth. So that's how. ;p > > > > I have never, personally, gotten the PvE obsession with maxing out damage with some perfect rotation. Like, in what content is that kind of maximum required? None. Not even raids actually require super optimized DPS. > > **Some people find it fun to try their best and improve their ability, as opposed to coasting through life doing the bare minimum required of them.** > > Some people also like to compete for fast clear times of bosses which relies on working together as a team all pushing out maximum DPS. > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > And, those ideal numbers get thrown off whenever you get a mechanic where you need to pause or dodge or do something else for a few seconds. So you probably won’t even get the chance to pull off your ideal rotation and because the content is otherwise so easy the difference between ideal and non-ideal rotations will be, at most, a minute or two less to beat the encounter. > > That's part of the fun. To perform your best, despite mechanics trying to prevent you from doing that. Positioning so that you have to dodge fewer attacks, making sure that you stay above 90% life (For Runes of the Scholar bonuses), maintaining uptime on the boss, performing your rotation properly etc. Maxing dps within a threshold of response utility is definitely fun and it's also fun to post firsts in server chat or whatever but that's only when your team knows how to build and play to respond. If raiding builds were crafted to the best of a players ability then there wouldn't be a bunch of raiders crying about having to WvW for collections and stuff, they should be superstars in any mode if they're trying their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mor The Thief.9135 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 IMO Sword/X could use a buff in damage in PvE, for example Sword/Pistol can be an option in addition to Staff for Daredevil since it doesn't rely on stealth usually but can still use its stealth with dodging in Black Powder to get the increase from the Revealed trait, while Sword/Dagger can be an option for DE since with Dagger OH one has an easy access to stealth... All it needs is just some flat damage increase across all its skills... and maybe make its Stealth attack actually do decent damage as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share Posted July 2, 2020 > @"Mor The Thief.9135" said: > IMO Sword/X could use a buff in damage in PvE, for example Sword/Pistol can be an option in addition to Staff for Daredevil since it doesn't rely on stealth usually but can still use its stealth with dodging in Black Powder to get the increase from the Revealed trait, while Sword/Dagger can be an option for DE since with Dagger OH one has an easy access to stealth... > > All it needs is just some flat damage increase across all its skills... and maybe make its Stealth attack actually do decent damage as well... Yeah, it's really easy to fix and only requires numerical changes. I'm not sure why they haven't buffed it, I find sword thief really fun but it's very weak as it's DPS is so far below anything else. Tactical strike could do 4x the damage, autos 2x the damage, pistol whip 2x the damage, lacern strike 2x the damage and sword would be pretty ok in PvE but still not top tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arturo.1298 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 This is really sad to see people always saying things that are to say the least partially true or not true at all, i have been maining thief for more than 5 years and its not as bad as plenty of people claim it to be, espetially dead eye, its a matter of learnin to play the game. that dead eye its usless in open world unless its pistol pistol thats ridiculous, rifle and d/d dead eye has extremly descent self sustain, i have soloed events with champion bosses or higher and yes can be hard some times but i will repeated its a matter of learning to play the game, fractalas and raids rifle dead eye its pretty descent i dont know why people think its usless, in some fractals i have managed tu pull 40k dps with dead eye, the truth is that its not that reliable or practical in most cases because of the adds or if the boss moves plenty, so most of the times dare its more practical and beneficial, and i believe that de dps output of dare its fair i mean the elite spec has one of the easiest dps rotation to pull off with descent AoE awhile being really mobile, you just use most of the time 3 keys wich one of them its 1 common. I will resume it too you guys, the enemy has adds or is alone? it it has adds then dare its better and easier, the boss is alone dead eye its easier, plenty of damage and relly easy tu pull off and can be either d/d or rifle, being rifle higher dps, if your teams need more cc bring dager pistol and boom, plenty of cc with 4. All this is a matter of knowing the class and exploit the strong areas to cover or make it for the weakenesses. my recomendation its enjoy the game and learn to play it, all this its only pve oriented pvp its a totally different story XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Bandit.3786 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > How do you run out of stealth on a DE? Specially in PvE you don't. If you do, you're doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Hold on, D/D is a viable weapon in PvE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaniaxs.4519 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > Hold on, D/D is a viable weapon in PvE? > > Shortbow power is even viable I lvled up my thief only using d/d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernRedStar.3054 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 > @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said: > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > Hold on, D/D is a viable weapon in PvE? > > > > > > > Shortbow power is even viable > I lvled up my thief only using d/d Open world ofc d/d will feel fine while leveling. Enter HoT and PoF and you'll feel the difference between staff, or even rifle, and the core weapon sets. Staff dishes out consistent burst damage, d/d only has backstab which barely even rivals one Weakening Charge. Shortbow is mainly used for skips. If you want better sustained damage against a boss, p/p will always be superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said: > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > > Hold on, D/D is a viable weapon in PvE? > > > > > > > > > > > > Shortbow power is even viable > > I lvled up my thief only using d/d > > Open world ofc d/d will feel fine while leveling. Enter HoT and PoF and you'll feel the difference between staff, or even rifle, and the core weapon sets. Staff dishes out consistent burst damage, d/d only has backstab which barely even rivals one Weakening Charge. > > Shortbow is mainly used for skips. If you want better sustained damage against a boss, p/p will always be superior. Life steal d/d with sb is fine and good for crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 Deadeye is fine as P/P, and Daredevil is fine as staff but you need to take invigorating precision and acro with assassin's reward to have enough sustain to solo champions and not randomly die to dumb stuff as staff daredevil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylari.9814 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 > @"Roche.7491" said: > > The only solution to this is to introduce an assassin type dual swords thief that can reck havoc in 1v1 and that's what we are looking at in the next expansion. > > Canthan Expansion: > Assassin - best at 1v1 > > Yeah because clearly if there's some niche that needs to be explored on Thief it's single target power damage and being a pvp/wvw duelist/skirmisher. Hard, hard pass on that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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