Upcoming changes for Ele - July 2020

[MyPuppy.8970]

Tried a few matches on core dd ele, placed in g3 but failed the match to get to plat. I thought it would be worse honestly, it is still fun and playable but doesn't feel impactul in the slightest. I specced for survivability tough, so it took forever to kill anyone. Got one salty pm though, the guy didn't seemed ashamed to bash on a dead spec.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> Tried a few matches on core dd ele, placed in g3 but failed the match to get to plat. I thought it would be worse honestly, it is still fun and playable but doesn't feel impactul in the slightest. I specced for survivability tough, so it took forever to kill anyone. Got one salty pm though, the guy didn't seemed ashamed to bash on a dead spec.

 

Literally ANYTHING bunker is viable.

[MyPuppy.8970]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > Tried a few matches on core dd ele, placed in g3 but failed the match to get to plat. I thought it would be worse honestly, it is still fun and playable but doesn't feel impactul in the slightest. I specced for survivability tough, so it took forever to kill anyone. Got one salty pm though, the guy didn't seemed ashamed to bash on a dead spec.

>

> Literally ANYTHING bunker is viable.

 

Slotting some survivability skills/traits doesn't necessarily makes a bunker

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I think we have a "purity of purpose" kind of change going on here. Let me explain:

 

Elementalists still have fury. They still have group fury, in a way. It's now all mostly in Air. Zephyr's Boon gives Fury with auras, Raging Storm gives Fury on Crit, and Elemental Lockdown in Arcane gives fury when stunning but only when attuned to air. This reinforces a pattern where all attunements have particular boons associated with them. Fire is might, air is swiftness + fury, earth is protection + stability, water is regeneration + vigor. At least, as far as the traits go. With this change, if you want to give your teammates fury, you have to build an Auramancer, go into Air, and take Zephyr's boon. This keeps all of the boons sorted into nice little rows, as to not taint the purpose of each line.

[steki.1478]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> I think we have a "purity of purpose" kind of change going on here. Let me explain:

>

> Elementalists still have fury. They still have group fury, in a way. It's now all mostly in Air. Zephyr's Boon gives Fury with auras, Raging Storm gives Fury on Crit, and Elemental Lockdown in Arcane gives fury when stunning but only when attuned to air. This reinforces a pattern where all attunements have particular boons associated with them. Fire is might, air is swiftness + fury, earth is protection + stability, water is regeneration + vigor. At least, as far as the traits go. With this change, if you want to give your teammates fury, you have to build an Auramancer, go into Air, and take Zephyr's boon. This keeps all of the boons sorted into nice little rows, as to not taint the purpose of each line.

 

And then you have engi which takes alchemy and gets 4 elixir procs and almost every single boon in game on 2 utility skills lol. Literally getting boons while just being in combat and that's just one build out of many others that have the same effect.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > I think we have a "purity of purpose" kind of change going on here. Let me explain:

> >

> > Elementalists still have fury. They still have group fury, in a way. It's now all mostly in Air. Zephyr's Boon gives Fury with auras, Raging Storm gives Fury on Crit, and Elemental Lockdown in Arcane gives fury when stunning but only when attuned to air. This reinforces a pattern where all attunements have particular boons associated with them. Fire is might, air is swiftness + fury, earth is protection + stability, water is regeneration + vigor. At least, as far as the traits go. With this change, if you want to give your teammates fury, you have to build an Auramancer, go into Air, and take Zephyr's boon. This keeps all of the boons sorted into nice little rows, as to not taint the purpose of each line.

>

> And then you have engi which takes alchemy and gets 4 elixir procs and almost every single boon in game on 2 utility skills lol. Literally getting boons while just being in combat and that's just one build out of many others that have the same effect.

 

Sorry, only engineer is allowed to be jack of all trades, not ele. Oh btw, they're also the master of all, so not just JACK OF ALL TRADES, master of none, but master of ALL.

[MarzAttakz.9608]

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> I think we have a "purity of purpose" kind of change going on here. Let me explain:

>

> Elementalists still have fury. They still have group fury, in a way. It's now all mostly in Air. Zephyr's Boon gives Fury with auras, Raging Storm gives Fury on Crit, and Elemental Lockdown in Arcane gives fury when stunning but only when attuned to air. This reinforces a pattern where all attunements have particular boons associated with them. Fire is might, air is swiftness + fury, earth is protection + stability, water is regeneration + vigor. At least, as far as the traits go. With this change, if you want to give your teammates fury, you have to build an Auramancer, go into Air, and take Zephyr's boon. This keeps all of the boons sorted into nice little rows, as to not taint the purpose of each line.

 

Thematically I understand that, and that's more or less how I've built the notion in my head but it always feels like we're ONE usable trait row short of complete builds, in other words, we should be able to use 4 specialization rows or Arcane spec needs to be deleted, all minor traits become part of core mechanics and major traits can be moved to respective elements. If this sounds OP, too bad, tune it afterwards.

 

Regarding boons and attunements, we used to be kings and queens with how many fields and blasts we were able to use, granted shouts could generate more for shorter periods but ours were consistent. That's no longer the case and something needs to be done about that since we were first balanced around access to those boons which are now given away free to practically every other class.

 

Missing boons added to elements where thematically appropriate.

 

FIRE: Might, Quickness, Retaliation

AIR: Alacrity, Fury, Swiftness (Superspeed)

EARTH: Protection, Resistance, Stability

WATER: Aegis, Regeneration, Vigor

 

Anyway, here's to pissing in the wind when it comes to feedback.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Yes, comments regarding Engi above are exactly what I mean... Elixers, short cooldown kit swaps, some of those gain x boons at x% short cooldown traits? FML!

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

>

> Sorry, only engineer is allowed to be jack of all trades, not ele. Oh btw, they're also the master of all, so not just JACK OF ALL TRADES, master of none, but master of ALL.

 

Don't you get tired of repeating that sentence over and over and over and over and over.....?

 

Btw, it isn't really true. The **only** viable role for a PvE engineer in high end content is as a DPS. Which is a role that can get filled by **any** class, since they all have dps builds, btw.

 

We are not competitive healers, since we provide nothing but raw healing in dedicated builds while other healing specs bring alot more utility. Not to mention that a healing scrapper/engineer has to completely give up their damage by camping med kit, while other healing specs still dish out damage.

 

We are not viable boon supports, since the boons which the engineer can provide to a group like protection are not really needed, the boons which are really needed in that content (alacrity, quickness, might) either can't be given out to team members at all (alacrity, quickness) or we don't have enough stacks and uptime to compete with other boon supports (might).

 

Elixirs provide buffs, that's their whole theme. I don't get why people are acting surprised that they provide more than 1 boon in this case.

[Malcastus.6240]

The damage of Lightning Surge should be going UP, not down, despite the reduction in CD. It was a weak skill and now moreso. Could be ok with One With Air/Weaver staff, but it's a big downgrade to Tempest and core.

[Milosz.5938]

I'm simply sure that **ANET stopped "visiting" ele forum 2 years ago** and they have Elemenatalists in BIG respect soo they created such patches :) Maybe they are not aware how crappy looks playing ele solo... how painfull it can be... how barriers work in weaver... (hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha)

I used word "work" for barrier ;p why putting in traits something radically sensless... I tried few times in few combinations using barriers... IT'S ONE BIG (====funny====) JOKE. I'm still waiting for day when they change it in patch note.

Dear ANET if you read this after next few years please try to play elemenatlist solo... anywhere (POF, wvwvw, pvp, seasonal maps), please try it.

_I know that there are very few elemntalists that can do that but can you -ANET?_

 

[solemn.9670]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> >

> > Sorry, only engineer is allowed to be jack of all trades, not ele. Oh btw, they're also the master of all, so not just JACK OF ALL TRADES, master of none, but master of ALL.

>

> Don't you get tired of repeating that sentence over and over and over and over and over.....?

>

> Btw, it isn't really true. The **only** viable role for a PvE engineer in high end content is as a DPS. Which is a role that can get filled by **any** class, since they all have dps builds, btw.

>

> We are not competitive healers, since we provide nothing but raw healing in dedicated builds while other healing specs bring alot more utility. Not to mention that a healing scrapper/engineer has to completely give up their damage by camping med kit, while other healing specs still dish out damage.

>

> We are not viable boon supports, since the boons which the engineer can provide to a group like protection are not really needed, the boons which are really needed in that content (alacrity, quickness, might) either can't be given out to team members at all (alacrity, quickness) or we don't have enough stacks and uptime to compete with other boon supports (might).

>

> Elixirs provide buffs, that's their whole theme. I don't get why people are acting surprised that they provide more than 1 boon in this case.

 

Well said and all, but let's keep in mind none of this applies for WvW. Heal scrapper is still meta for WvW in my opinion. Boons/cleanses galore and the best multi-target healing uptime in the game as well as nice access to group super-speed and some modest stab/reflect uptime, a blast finisher, stealth, CC, pulsing cleanse/heal field from elixir gun... definitely the greatest healer still for WvW, imo.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong but DPS scrapper is still doing pretty well in WvW? I don't really know tbh.

Anyway I don't mean to derail this thread, just wanted to comment on this since we're discussing engi vs ele for some reason.

[steki.1478]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> >

> > Sorry, only engineer is allowed to be jack of all trades, not ele. Oh btw, they're also the master of all, so not just JACK OF ALL TRADES, master of none, but master of ALL.

>

> Don't you get tired of repeating that sentence over and over and over and over and over.....?

>

> Btw, it isn't really true. The **only** viable role for a PvE engineer in high end content is as a DPS. Which is a role that can get filled by **any** class, since they all have dps builds, btw.

>

> We are not competitive healers, since we provide nothing but raw healing in dedicated builds while other healing specs bring alot more utility. Not to mention that a healing scrapper/engineer has to completely give up their damage by camping med kit, while other healing specs still dish out damage.

>

> We are not viable boon supports, since the boons which the engineer can provide to a group like protection are not really needed, the boons which are really needed in that content (alacrity, quickness, might) either can't be given out to team members at all (alacrity, quickness) or we don't have enough stacks and uptime to compete with other boon supports (might).

>

> Elixirs provide buffs, that's their whole theme. I don't get why people are acting surprised that they provide more than 1 boon in this case.

 

My point wasnt in performance, it was just in class design. I'm not here to compare classes in group and vacuum environments where you get various of stuff from external sources. You can slap 20% damage buff on a random medium damage hitting abilities on any class and they'll be meta in pve (also support ele is as much meta in pve as support engi is). I didnt mention engi because I think it's OP or something, I mentioned it because it's one of the classes that has an option to spec into being an unkillable machine with lots of self generated boons as well as passive heals or even barriers without losing too much damage (because lots of boons and sustain are a lot more beneficial than 15% extra damage when you're not being babysitted by support, regardless of content and game mode).

 

Played chrono today, used GS 4, got 5-10 seconds of quickness and 10-15 stacks of might among other things like alacrity on shatter which you're doing anyway. Did I sacrifice some damage traits? Sure, but the combat is a lot more fluid and you regain those damage modifiers through boons (since you'd have none). Herald? Tap the fury facet and suddenly you have 25 might. Warrior? Just take strength line and gs, works for both damage and sustain. Who needs different specs to get those, just slap it all in one.

 

I understand the point of elixirs, but I dont understand why engi is a new warrior which gets it's stuff for free in form of passive procs. I also dont understand how classes can get multiple boons simultaneously, while ele gets miserable 3-5 second duration boons from spec whose entire purpose is boon generation, 1 by 1 lol. 1 stack of might on attunement swap? 1k crits (pvp modes) on arcane skills whose only purpose is to do damage? 5 second duration on basic boons after using a CC? 5 second duration on boons granted by auras which have 20+ second cooldowns on skills and are practically non existent in dps builds?

 

At least we can sacrifice our might on a core trait, GM even, might that can be only acquired (in combat) through runes, sigils and tempest (not a core spec or other elite spec) to give it to allies. Absolutely perfect design. Reminds me of that patch where devs gave might to phantasms which dont benefit from it at all (only to add another trait 5 months later which gave chrono the effect I mentioned above...lets hope we get the same treatment next patch..).

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

I mean anyone with a functioning cortex can tell you that the majority of traits on ele are effectively useless. The only reason some builds are still around is because of singular traits that completely outweigh everything else, Sunspot and former arcane resurrection were good examples of this.

 

Scrapper isn’t that much better. Their build/trait options are just as terrible. Remove Purity of Purpose and Scrapper will fall out of meta then next day.