WvW Scourge nerf

[Excursion.9752]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > One extreme to the next. This is anything but balance. This is a knee jerk reaction from a player base that does not know how to avoid red circles. They did need to rework the number of targets not completely gut it. If they are going to reduce the amount of targets for AOE's they need to have sweeping changes across the board. Even with healing.

> >

> > After watching the last live stream I thought just maybe they had a good understanding of how to balance the scourge. Boy was I wrong.

>

> When devs stream next time, camp them with power hammer revs and longbow soulbeasts. Oneshot them as soon as they go out of spawn.

> Perma immob them so they are never ever able to move again.

>

> Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

Great Idea. But the Dev that was speaking to all the changes never even left the respawn. Even the other dev that was actually playing was asking where he was and he replied I haven't even left respawn....

 

However he did say that he is open to read 50 page dissertations on balancing. I think before they read about it why don't they go out and get some context by playing the game more. While they will never see everything they could see most things.

 

Glad to see that the term [Area of Effect (AoE)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Area_of_effect) is used so loosely now that it can be lowered down to 2 targets. We better tone down the cleaving ability of weapons now to 2 targets as well we don't want them to hit to many people at once. Someone might get hurt!

 

[realviizz.4982]

Imagine your main profession mechanic (if poorly used) hitting less targets than basic attacks for many classes/specs. And then they want to sell you that as a good thing on top of that. It's great that all the necro haters enjoy this "hotfix". Maybe they'll rethink that once they realise that the boonspam is now gonna be even more insane than it already was.

The well nerf was expected, the shade nerf is just overkill imo.

[nullixin.9462]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> It's outright bad and won't help, MS was balanced around PvE with no regard to PvP or WvW

I believe that's better than the current one (i.e. decreasing damage per hit) since it favours the elementalist too much one-sidedly. I'll give case examples:

A. Decreasing damage per hit (100% to 20% for a total of 300%) - Caster does most damage upfront, victims took most damage upfront

B. Bell slope (30% > 70% >100% > 70% > 30%) - Victims took most damage only if they're negligent and stays inside the radius for too long

C. Increasing damage per hit (20% to 100%) - Yeah, no elementalist would want this

D. Split damage - Caster applies linear damage, but only one victim who leave as the last one receives the most punishment and gets to be called the village dunce.

Edit: If I remember back then Cantriping into Tornado, for the power bonus to Meteor Shower, that bonus was disabled for non-PvE reason. Though, how would you say MS could be more effective for point-capture and zerg?

 

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Sounds good to me: split number of corruptions and damage between targets. However, from Arenanet's perspective, that is a new mechanic for Scourge and, therefore, harder than changing the number of targets. Easy way wins.

Probably three corrupted boons for 1 victim, two for 2, one for three. At least scourge's effectiveness can then not as much as a landslide between zerging, group roam, and solo. Maybe this split mechanic could be transferred if it has been used in raid or fractal? I've only raided halfway to Wing 2.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

Look at the bright side of things, at least now the scourge can benefit from both the F skills effect and the the minor traits effects.

[Rikit Runk.5170]

Can we instead have a global Target Cap on the shades-skills?

3 by default (around self) and +1 for each shade that is placed in the word. (big shade counts as 3)

the target-logic could be like this:

When ever a shade skill is activated it checks how many targets are available at each shade location.

And how many shades are in the world, to calculate how many enemies can be hit.

First it tries to hit 3 Targets around yourself. if there are fewer, the remaining "Target-points" go back to the "pool"

Than it tries to hit 1 Target at each shades location. again, if there are fewer Targets the "Target-Points" go back to the pool.

The Shades draw additional targets from the pool in the following Order:

1. newest shade

2. second oldest shade

3. oldest shade

4. self

 

So if you have for example 2 Shades placed and you have 2 enemies at each shade and 2 on yourself, this is what happens:

Since you have 2 shades out, you can hit 3 +1 +1 = 5 Targets.

You hit the 2 Targets around you, the remaining 3rd Target goes to the Pool.

and 2 enemies at your newest shade as it drew the one, unused target-slot from your self-shade

you hit 1 Enemy at your oldest shade as there are no "points" left in the "pool" to hit additional foes.

So the 6th Enemy at the oldest shade is the lucky one, who won't receive a hit.

 

PS: Friendly Target and enemy Targets are tracked apart from each other. so you can hit a maximum Number of 6 Friendlies and 6 Enemies with each shade skills

 

PPS: These Numbers are of course just a starting point, and open for discussion/tweaking

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Nerfed 10 characters

[Anchoku.8142]

Memory can play funny tricks on me. For example, my memory seems to say Arenanet wanted Scourge to have lots of corruption to counter rampant boon spam.

 

If that were true, though, would Arenanet not want to also decrease the number of targets for boon share also?

 

The WvW forum has a number of posts where players complain about too much dps from Scourge. Is that not because they bring a lot of boons for corruption?

 

The WvW forum also says Necro was the king of WvW for 8 years but I only remember Necro being super-easy prey when caught outside of the GWEN blob on a zerging build.

 

I suppose the other three letters are also on the nerfing block, too, to make room for those professions who struggle in WvW like Rev, Mes, Thf, Rng, and Eng.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

 

> The WvW forum also says Necro was the king of WvW for 8 years but I only remember Necro being super-easy prey when caught outside of the GWEN blob on a zerging build.

>

> I suppose the other three letters are also on the nerfing block, too, to make room for those professions who struggle in WvW like Rev, Mes, Thf, Rng, and Eng.

 

Firstly GWEN was around from core to HoT, things have changed since then, Revenant (Herald) is incredibly good in WvW and Engi (Scrapper) is certainly the best support behind Firebrand, Warrior (Spellbreaker) is still around but not as many as before and Elementalist - (Tempest) is clearly the third best support and Weaver lacks damage to make it into the zerg.

 

Ranger has always struggled, Thief has been having some joy with daredevil but mainly in the GvG scene Mesmer still has veil,Grav Well and focus pulls but I think people don't want to play a class for 3 skills alone.

 

Saying necro has been king for 8 years isn't the right way to go, but Guardian and Necro are the classes that have been needed the most and it all comes down to anet.. adding so many boons to the game and to counter it, they gave Necro a load of corrupts (lore wise it fits necro the best) but this just adds to the problem personally reduce boons and restrict each class to a certain load of boons while also reducing/reworking necro skills accordingly

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"nullixin.9462" said:

 

> Edit: If I remember back then Cantriping into Tornado, for the power bonus to Meteor Shower, that bonus was disabled for non-PvE reason. Though, how would you say MS could be more effective for point-capture and zerg?

 

Don't want to comment to much since this is about Necros anyway, Personally I'd like the damage reduced per target removed and the Radius of Meteor shower to be reduced a bit and make the Meteors less RNG if not that then increasing the damage would be my 2nd option

[Tanbin.2436]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > One extreme to the next. This is anything but balance. This is a knee jerk reaction from a player base that does not know how to avoid red circles. They did need to rework the number of targets not completely gut it. If they are going to reduce the amount of targets for AOE's they need to have sweeping changes across the board. Even with healing.

> >

> > After watching the last live stream I thought just maybe they had a good understanding of how to balance the scourge. Boy was I wrong.

>

> When devs stream next time, camp them with power hammer revs and longbow soulbeasts. Oneshot them as soon as they go out of spawn.

> Perma immob them so they are never ever able to move again.

>

> Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

 

except soulbeast doesn't have ancient seeds so they don't "perma immob" , that's druid - which is useless and even then they don't perma immob because aoe condi clear exists (and condi conversion to boons exist from who? voila! necros and guardians!).

 

next time you type about classes and their specializations and the skills they have available to them you might want to make sure you actually understand what you're typing about before making blanket statements because you're upset they mis-managed your class.

 

the "my stuff got nerfed so nerf some other shit" excuse is boring, overplayed and the wrong way to go about getting your class's stuff added back into the game. it's especially funny because scourge has and always will be 100x more meta than any ranger spec in WvW and this has been that way since PoF dropped so it's just ironic that you would mention rangers to even begin with. even with nerfs scourge would still always be the more valuable pick over ranger.

 

i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? let's also throw in the hammer backline rev, guardians and hell the scrapper and support spellbreaker as well.

 

it's funny, but surely you notice, there isn't immob soulbeast (because it doesn't exist and ranger itself isn't even meta in wvw zerg).

 

see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're butthurt about scourge getting some nerfs because you've been spoonfed a meta position in wvw for years now..

[Mil.3562]

> @"Giotto.2607" said:

> let me tell you a joke, an aoe skill hit 2. A single target skill hit 3.

 

Hey, I have another one. Arrows shoot further than bullets.

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're kitten about scourge getting some nerfs.

 

Necro mains are not upset by WvW nerfs. The developers created a meta where 8 professions rely on boons and one profession is supposed to counter that.

 

Necro mains _are_ upset about Arenanet replacing grandmaster traits that were balanced (not over performing) with trash traits _outside_ of WvW.

 

Don't criticize professions you do not main, either. The developers left Scourge with a 2-person cleave on shades. This means it will take 2 or 3 times as many Necromancer's, mostly Reaper and core, in a blob to counter boon spam.

 

Arenanet failed in this WvW balance patch because they were not aggressive enough in reducing boon sharing. Those players still using Necro in WvW should find more stability to corrupt into fear. The dev's will remain as confused as ever.

[Tanbin.2436]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're kitten about scourge getting some nerfs.

>

> Necro mains are not upset by WvW nerfs. The developers created a meta where 8 professions rely on boons and one profession is supposed to counter that.

>

> Necro mains _are_ upset about Arenanet replacing grandmaster traits that were balanced (not over performing) with trash traits _outside_ of WvW.

>

> Don't criticize professions you do not main, either. The developers left Scourge with a 2-person cleave on shades. This means it will take 2 or 3 times as many Necromancer's, mostly Reaper and core, in a blob to counter boon spam.

>

> Arenanet failed in this WvW balance patch because they were not aggressive enough in reducing boon sharing. Those players still using Necro in WvW should find more stability to corrupt into fear. The dev's will remain as confused as ever.

 

Please highlight where I said what the devs did is right or the correct thing? Also, please highlight where I criticize scourge at all and mention traits that aren't possible and try to say it's a busted build like the person my response was to did? If you actually read my response you'll notice I didn't criticize necro or scourge at all and even said that Anet mis-managed necro in these nerfs. **Please learn to read before you respond and not immediately assume everybody is trash talking your class. Thanks**

 

That's right you won't find it, because I didn't criticize it.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"iKagura.1903" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Excursion.9752" said:

> > > One extreme to the next. This is anything but balance. This is a knee jerk reaction from a player base that does not know how to avoid red circles. They did need to rework the number of targets not completely gut it. If they are going to reduce the amount of targets for AOE's they need to have sweeping changes across the board. Even with healing.

> > >

> > > After watching the last live stream I thought just maybe they had a good understanding of how to balance the scourge. Boy was I wrong.

> >

> > When devs stream next time, camp them with power hammer revs and longbow soulbeasts. Oneshot them as soon as they go out of spawn.

> > Perma immob them so they are never ever able to move again.

> >

> > Guess we just have to make it more obvious, what really is extremely overperforming atm

>

> except soulbeast doesn't have ancient seeds so they don't "perma immob" , that's druid - which is useless and even then they don't perma immob because aoe condi clear exists (and condi conversion to boons exist from who? voila! necros and guardians!).

 

If you really think that soulbeast doesn't perma immob, you clearly have no clue how ranger works. Yes, druid has one more immob from traits, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Most guild groups play soulbeast for the immob, because its more useful than a druid (or at least was more useful pre patch)

An I already asked for that before the patch, and not only me.

 

>

> next time you type about classes and their specializations and the skills they have available to them you might want to make sure you actually understand what you're typing about before making blanket statements because you're upset they mis-managed your class.

>

> the "my stuff got nerfed so nerf some other kitten" excuse is boring, overplayed and the wrong way to go about getting your class's stuff added back into the game. it's especially funny because scourge has and always will be 100x more meta than any ranger spec in WvW and this has been that way since PoF dropped so it's just ironic that you would mention rangers to even begin with. even with nerfs scourge would still always be the more valuable pick over ranger.

>

> i think the obvious choice to camp the devs with would be the already STILL overperforming scourge so they nerf it more, right? let's also throw in the hammer backline rev, guardians and hell the scrapper and support spellbreaker as well.

>

> it's funny, but surely you notice, there isn't immob soulbeast (because it doesn't exist and ranger itself isn't even meta in wvw zerg).

>

> see this is why it's not cool to attack other classes because you're kitten about scourge getting some nerfs because you've been spoonfed a meta position in wvw for years now..

 

And I also never said, that it wasn't the right choice to nerf scourge.

Especially after the last patch, but both nerfs have been too much nerfing in my opinion.

And 3 target shades have been a nerf already. I don't think they had enough data from just one day, to justify these nerfs.

If they only increased well cooldowns again or only nerfed shade target cap ok. And then watch how it turns out, but not both at the same time.

 

I don't complain that they nerfed scourge, I complain about how they did it.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

@"iKagura.1903"

I don't think being toxic by camping a dev in WvW is the best way to communicate with them.

[Galmac.4680]

> @"Mil.3562" said:

> > @"Giotto.2607" said:

> > let me tell you a joke, an aoe skill hit 2. A single target skill hit 3.

>

> Hey, I have another one. Arrows shoot further than bullets.

 

Even if you don't have bow strings :p =)

[Lottie.5370]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> This patch just shows so much ignorance.

>

> Before this patch, you actually had a good balance of classes in zergs:

>

> Eles were hard to play but did 2-3times more damage than a necro

> Revs were kinda easy to play and did 1,3-1,5times more damage than necro.

>

 

Balance of classes in zergs ???

 

Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

 

Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

 

If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

[nala.9072]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

 

> Balance of classes in zergs ???

>

> Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

>

> Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

>

> If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

 

 

So, instead of making more classes usefull lets make usefull classes useless! nice logic! lol

 

[imgflip.com/i/47uk13](http://imgflip.com/i/47uk13)

 

 

 

[jpsssss.7530]

High Key the Sand Savant is an intelligence check in WvW. All you get for double recharge time and half the possible targets is a big circle. Its a self nerf.

 

The Anet balance team is actually kitten stupid and a kitten joke. They talked about GM traits being weak/underperforming while giving us a garbo GM trait to replace a meh one and making another completely unusable...

[Lottie.5370]

> @"nala.9072" said:

> > @"Lottie.5370" said:

>

> > Balance of classes in zergs ???

> >

> > Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

> >

> > Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

> >

> > If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

>

>

> So, instead of making more classes usefull lets make usefull classes useless! nice logic! lol

>

> [imgflip.com/i/47uk13](http://imgflip.com/i/47uk13)

>

>

>

 

Would you like to read my last sentence again, or are you just selectively reading what you want to hear? I mean... wow.

 

If you want more classes to be useful, you have to give them either unique uses or make them as-viable-as another class with the same "use". You cannot balance the game so that every class is useful if you have one class doing the job of 4 classes.

 

Right now there is:

 

Firebrand - Support - main source of stability, cleansing and healing

Ele - Tempest - very high amount of cleanse/auras OR damage

- Weaver - damage

Herald - backline damage, also some support with dwarf

Scrapper - cleanses and stealth

Spellbreaker - let's be honest, it's mostly used for the bubble - it otherwise provides some damage, healing and cleanses

Scourge - we have power damage, condition damage, barriers, condition conversion, boonstrip, boon corruption, and I'm probably still forgetting something

 

Right now, you could have a squad made of just Firebrands and Scourges and it would be fine, because both classes provide too many things. If you want more classes to be viable, start by removing some of the utility from those and spreading them out to other classes, because that is the only way you are going to start seeing some variety. Scourge should have to choose between support or offensive entirely, and not be a jack of all trades regardless of build.

[nala.9072]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> > @"nala.9072" said:

> > > @"Lottie.5370" said:

> >

> > > Balance of classes in zergs ???

> > >

> > > Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

> > >

> > > Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

> > >

> > > If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

> >

> >

> > So, instead of making more classes usefull lets make usefull classes useless! nice logic! lol

> >

> > [imgflip.com/i/47uk13](http://imgflip.com/i/47uk13)

> >

> >

> >

>

> Would you like to read my last sentence again, or are you just selectively reading what you want to hear? I mean... wow.

>

> If you want more classes to be useful, you have to give them either unique uses or make them as-viable-as another class with the same "use". You cannot balance the game so that every class is useful if you have one class doing the job of 4 classes.

>

> Right now there is:

>

> Firebrand - Support - main source of stability, cleansing and healing

> Ele - Tempest - very high amount of cleanse/auras OR damage

> - Weaver - damage

> Herald - backline damage, also some support with dwarf

> Scrapper - cleanses and stealth

> Spellbreaker - let's be honest, it's mostly used for the bubble - it otherwise provides some damage, healing and cleanses

> Scourge - we have power damage, condition damage, barriers, condition conversion, boonstrip, boon corruption, and I'm probably still forgetting something

>

> Right now, you could have a squad made of just Firebrands and Scourges and it would be fine, because both classes provide too many things. If you want more classes to be viable, start by removing some of the utility from those and spreading them out to other classes, because that is the only way you are going to start seeing some variety. Scourge should have to choose between support or offensive entirely, and not be a jack of all trades regardless of build.

 

Actually I was agreeing with your comment. Every class needs to bring sth but by making one more class useless you are not helping. That was the point.

 

Scourge had a bit of everything and needed to be toned down. But right now scourge cannot really do anything. It cannot be a reliable support and although I dont think anyone was playing like that anyways, still barriers and cleanses were a good side effect that was helping. On the other hand, Reaper or even core Necro have much better dps and same corrupts with much less effort. So you think you got rid of scourges being top DPS? Now probably Reapers will be top DPS and Well bombs are still here and not going anywhere.

 

Personally, I might continue playing scourge just because it is more challenging to try place small shades all around to make some impact and justify your existance but I am generally frustrated on how they butchered the mechanics of a specialization.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> Balance of classes in zergs ???

>

> Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

>

> Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

>

> If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

 

I thumb you up because what you say is true, however, Scourge doing less things won't help with the reason why mesmer, thief and ranger don't see play in zerg. These 3 professions are held back by their design not by the efficiency of other professions in the gamemode. 2 of these professions have their mechanic shut down because it's reliant on pets while the 3rd profession is designed around bursting damage from stealth...

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > This patch just shows so much ignorance.

> >

> > Before this patch, you actually had a good balance of classes in zergs:

> >

> > Eles were hard to play but did 2-3times more damage than a necro

> > Revs were kinda easy to play and did 1,3-1,5times more damage than necro.

> >

>

> Balance of classes in zergs ???

>

> Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

>

> Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

>

> If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

 

You seem to forget, that there's not only zerging in wvw. And actually a well played soulbeast is not bad in zergs

 

But:

Mesmer in general: good at roaming

Dragonhunter: extremely good at roaming

Ranger in general: op at roaming

Warrior/berserker: good at roaming

Engineer in general: extremely good at roaming

Thief in general: absolutely busted at roaming

 

Necro in general: bad at roaming

 

Sure make every class good for zergs, but then also adjust every class to be good at roaming as well.

 

 

[Tman.6349]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Lottie.5370" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > This patch just shows so much ignorance.

> > >

> > > Before this patch, you actually had a good balance of classes in zergs:

> > >

> > > Eles were hard to play but did 2-3times more damage than a necro

> > > Revs were kinda easy to play and did 1,3-1,5times more damage than necro.

> > >

> >

> > Balance of classes in zergs ???

> >

> > Mesmer/Mirage/Chronomancer who? Dragonhunter who? Ranger/Soulbeast/Druid who? Warrior/Berserker who? Engineer/Holosmith who? Thief/Deadeye/Daredevil who? The list goes on.

> >

> > Even if I was going to be lenient and not list classes where at least one specialisation is used, you're still left with Mesmer, Thief and Ranger seeing no play in zergs, except those people who pretty much only play one class or do not play WvW often, and let's be real: no one wants them in the zerg.

> >

> > If you want a real balance of classes in zergs then you need each class to be able to bring something unique. Scourge having damage, condis, boon strip/conversion AND barrier was not helping *anything*.

>

> You seem to forget, that there's not only zerging in wvw. And actually a well played soulbeast is not bad in zergs

>

> But:

> Mesmer in general: good at roaming

> Dragonhunter: extremely good at roaming

> Ranger in general: op at roaming

> Warrior/berserker: good at roaming

> Engineer in general: extremely good at roaming

> Thief in general: absolutely busted at roaming

>

> Necro in general: bad at roaming

>

> Sure make every class good for zergs, but then also adjust every class to be good at roaming as well.

>

>

 

If this wasn't so absolutely obvious, I'd say it couldn't be stressed enough. Sad state of the Anet staff and the player base these days...

[Druch.8573]

This is not just a nerf... this is basically destroying completely a specialization, making it completely useless and unplayeble. I guess that it's easier for the lazy brainless ANET to get rid completely of a class before making a bit of effort and working out a way to give some different mechanic to this "overpowered" class.

 

Sand Savant was useless already two parches ago and now it is even more useless, why you need a bigger shade for only 2 targets?! We are talking about a Grandmaster trait, it should be a good one, something that makes a difference and not this useless crap that it even punishes you for the fact to have double cd when using it.

 

I lost any trust on you and I cannot wait for a new game to be released an dump your senseless game for good!