Warrior Balance Requests Omnibus

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

 

**Reworked Arms**

 

_Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury_

 

—Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

 

—Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

 

—Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

 

_Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)_

 

—Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

 

—Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

 

—Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

 

_Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)_

 

—Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

 

—Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

 

—Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

>

> **Reworked Arms**

>

> _Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury_

Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.

> —Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.

I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.

Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.

 

> —Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.

5s on those state increases correct?

> —Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.

> _Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)_

This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.

> —Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

>

> —Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

There is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.

> —Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?

> _Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)_

Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.

> —Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.

> —Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.

How about:

Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.

Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

 

This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.

> —Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

> >

> > **Reworked Arms**

> >

> > _Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury_

> Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.

I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))

> > —Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

> Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.

> I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.

> Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.

Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

>

> > —Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

> This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.

> 5s on those state increases correct?

I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.

> > —Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

> I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.

Even better!

> > _Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)_

> This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.

Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.

> > —Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

> >

> > —Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

> There is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.

Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.

As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?

> > —Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

> So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?

I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

> > _Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)_

> Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.

Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.

> > —Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

> Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.

I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.

> > —Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

> Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.

> How about:

> Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.

> Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

>

> This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.

This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.

> > —Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

> Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

>

Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?

 

P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.

 

 

Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > > Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

> > >

> > > **Reworked Arms**

> > >

> > > _Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury_

> > Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.

> I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))

> > > —Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

> > Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.

> > I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.

> > Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.

> Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

> >

> > > —Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

> > This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.

> > 5s on those state increases correct?

> I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.

> > > —Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

> > I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.

> Even better!

> > > _Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)_

> > This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.

> Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.

> > > —Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

> > >

> > > —Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

> > There is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.

> Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.

Well my recommendation is because we used to inflict Confusion on interrupt, but the duration was too low to be of real use. Weakness you can get from Body Blow, and I'd rather get confusion back on warrior.

> As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?

I think keep it on its current minor slot.

> > > —Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

> > So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?

> I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

> > > _Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)_

> > Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.

> Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.

Or maybe keep it here and change 'Bloodthirsty' to heal you when you inflict bleeding on a foe, something like 200 hp per stack.

> > > —Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

> > Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.

> I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.

> > > —Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

> > Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.

> > How about:

> > Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.

> > Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

> >

> > This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.

> This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.

Well Berserk counts as a T3 bursts and Primal Bursts count as T1 bursts so they would behave as such.

> > > —Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

> > Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

> >

> Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?

Well Heightened Focus is a pretty garbage trait to be honest. They cut the duration too much in competitive play. Giving another quickness source is not a bad idea.

> P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.

I can see torment on applying a critical hit via Wounding Precision, but that would only be what is on the trait then. That or applying some number of stacks when you apply a movement impairing condition. I can see confusion on Unsuspecting Foe for reasons stated above. Weakness we can get from elsewhere already. Slow isn't really a core warrior thing and I think we should keep it like that.

>

> Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

 

Either or really. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that we have several sources of +10 stacks of vulnerability, some of which can hit multiple foes. That coupled with the proposal to turn the Rifles into a 600 range cone AoEs means that you could camp Rifle and get high amounts of self healing with that version of the trait. I was meaning it to be a small source, not a large source. Ideally it would be run with Might Makes Right and/or Mending Might, but not as a replacement. If were feasible as a replacement for MMR for example then you would have Arms/Str/Tact bunker builds using Might, Vulnerability, and Vigorous Shouts to never die, hence the small amount of healing that I suggesting on Sundering Bursts.

 

A non might based source of healing to nudge sustain upwards some, but not in an oppressive way.

[Mighty Cole.7849]

Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

 

It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

[Grand Marshal.4098]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > > > Just some random stuff I put together for Arms cause I was bored. Gonna leave em here

> > > >

> > > > **Reworked Arms**

> > > >

> > > > _Minor Adept: Furious Burst-Bursts grant Fury_

> > > Same as current. Not a bad minor so okay.

> > I don't expect a lot from a Minor Adept and given how Burst spam is promoted, I think it's ok as is. (Unless if we say that Fury application A)applies might on it's own application B ) Strips Might from the enemy (overkill))

> > > > —Major Adept 1: Wounding Precision-Gain Precision based on your power (15%). A percentage of the precision is converted to expertise (20%)

> > > Interesting. Those conversions are a lot higher than the current ratios, so probably wouldn't happen.

> > > I think that precision based on power is interesting, but for an Adept it would have to be 7%.

> > > Since this is the condi tree I'd like to see this trait inflict something like torment on critical in addition to the expertise gain.

> > Yeah, the only numbers I didn't rly check. I thought, for a condi line that adds some precision as well, so if out of 1k power you get 150 precision, convert 30 of that into expertise. Maybe it should follow Blood Reaction as you said.

> > >

> > > > —Major Adept 2: Signet Mastery-same but instead of lesser Signet of Might, cast lesser Signet of Fury (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 adrenaline) (25 seconds)

> > > This trait always bothered me since it gave ferocity instead of precision or condition given the tree it is in. Lesser Signet of Fury as you stated is more thematic for the tree.

> > > 5s on those state increases correct?

> > I'd imagine it would be enough, yes. I also had the idea of a different lesser signet activating according to some parameter, but it was too much thought and would probably end up to strong (for example: lesser signet of fury for foe below heath threshold, lesser healing sig when below 25% health, lesser dolly sig when stunned, lesser endurance sig when you get 5 condis etc). With a rather big CD on all those, but again, too strong even for weaker singets.

> > > > —Major Adept 3: Opportunist-Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable foes (5%)

> > > I think 0.5% per stack would be better. Gives Rifle a bit of a boost.

> > Even better!

> > > > _Minor Master: Deep Strikes-Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+100 Condi dmg)_

> > > This I like. It would make Arms a great adrenaline gain line. Keep the +180 condi damage while under the effects of fury though.

> > Didn't want to make Fury too strong with the original condi buff, hence the decrease. But if you believe we can keep it I'm in.

> > > > —Major Master 1: Blademaster-same

> > > >

> > > > —Major Master 2: Unsuspecting Foe-same

> > > There is an opportunity to apply confusion on hitting a CC'd foes, something that warrior had before but was implemented poorly.

> > Dammnit I'm not very creatuve with condi. I'd like to give poison to Blademaster somehow, or weakness. Which would ideally go well with Cull The Weak.

> Well my recommendation is because we used to inflict Confusion on interrupt, but the duration was too low to be of real use. Weakness you can get from Body Blow, and I'd rather get confusion back on warrior.

> > As for Unsuspecting Foe, how about giving it the 33% chance to bleed on strikes? Does that take away from the overall condition potential?

> I think keep it on its current minor slot.

> > > > —Major Master 3: Sundering Burst-Burst skills inflict Vulnerability. Your Vulnerability lasts longer (5%)

> > > So the same as current but with 5% more vulnerability duration?

> > I figured that if this were to synergize with Opportunist, this would be enough. Axe MH, GS aa, Rifle and OH Dagger inflict decent vulnerability already (OH Mace too, but that's hardly used in competetive). Perhaps it would be the same if we kept it with extra vulnerability on critical hit, but I think warrior needs a bit larger of attack window.

> > > > _Minor Grandmaster:"Bloodthirsty"-A portion of the damage of your critical strikes heals you (10%)_

> > > Where would you put the 33% chance to bleed on crit? That should go somewhere I think.

> > Maybe on a Major Master, as I said above? We could slap it in the Minor GM, but I'm cautious of it offerring too much. Was even considering Singet Mastery for GM tbh.

> Or maybe keep it here and change 'Bloodthirsty' to heal you when you inflict bleeding on a foe, something like 200 hp per stack.

> > > > —Major Grandmaster 1: Furious-Critical hits grant a stacking condition damage effect (+10 condi dmg, max 25 stacks). Reduce incoming condition damage by 0.2% per stack (5% at max capacity)

> > > Mmmm.... The current adrenaline gain on Furious is pretty great and I don't want it to go away even with your proposal to Deep Strike. I'd prefer the current Furious over this personally.

> > I suppose +1 adrenaline shouldn't be very broken in the current meta.

> > > > —Major Grandmaster 2: "Burst Supremacy"- Burst skills have an increased critical-hit chance (50%) and grant 5 stacks of Unblockable (25 seconds)

> > > Why not just keep the current 100% chance and just add on an extra rider? Also those 25s of unblockable are way out there in duration.

> > > How about:

> > > Burst skills have 100% chance to crit.

> > > Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks per bar adrenaline spent of Unblockable (5s).

> > >

> > > This means that your bursts have 100% crit chance as current, and are unblockable in addition to a few followup attacks, or some multiple hit burst hits.

> > This sounds more practical. A T3 Burst granting some unblockables aye. What an excellent counter to guardians and their focus 5. And since it's based on consumed adrenaline and not landing the burst, there is some good tactics we can use. Would you count entering Berserk Mode as such an instance? It would be cool to pop Berserk (basically consuming adrenaline to convert it to 10 Rage) and have our first burst be unblockable if traited.

> Well Berserk counts as a T3 bursts and Primal Bursts count as T1 bursts so they would behave as such.

> > > > —Major Grandmaster 3: "Crisis"-While below the Health Threshold (75%), attack speed increases (15%) and you gain Alacrity (5 seconds every 20 seconds)

> > > Hmm... Make it instead so that you gain quickness and alacrity when struck below 75% for 5s with a 20s CD.

> > >

> > Don't you think that quickness overlaps too much with Heightened Focus? Maybe maintaining a flat increase in attack speed is better?

> Well Heightened Focus is a pretty garbage trait to be honest. They cut the duration too much in competitive play. Giving another quickness source is not a bad idea.

> > P.S. I separated this into Condi (upper) line, Ferocity/Power dmg (middle) and a more general quality of life (lower) paths. But I'm still confident that the condi path can and should have, slow, confusion, torment and weakness applications. Perhaps getting rid of Blademaster or overhauling it entirely to fit these condis.

> I can see torment on applying a critical hit via Wounding Precision, but that would only be what is on the trait then. That or applying some number of stacks when you apply a movement impairing condition. I can see confusion on Unsuspecting Foe for reasons stated above. Weakness we can get from elsewhere already. Slow isn't really a core warrior thing and I think we should keep it like that.

> >

> > Edit: Was thinking of popping a "inflicting vulnerability heals you" just like you write in the main post. But would it actually be beneficial? Would it be too much to have 2 ways to heal in this specialization? Is our vulnerabilityy coverage enough to heal us? (There is also the option "For every 5 stacks of vulnerability you inflict gain a boon (vigor, or might for some strength synergy?)"

>

> Either or really. I was thinking along the lines of the fact that we have several sources of +10 stacks of vulnerability, some of which can hit multiple foes. That coupled with the proposal to turn the Rifles into a 600 range cone AoEs means that you could camp Rifle and get high amounts of self healing with that version of the trait. I was meaning it to be a small source, not a large source. Ideally it would be run with Might Makes Right and/or Mending Might, but not as a replacement. If were feasible as a replacement for MMR for example then you would have Arms/Str/Tact bunker builds using Might, Vulnerability, and Vigorous Shouts to never die, hence the small amount of healing that I suggesting on Sundering Bursts.

>

> A non might based source of healing to nudge sustain upwards some, but not in an oppressive way.

 

I read you. So ultimately:

 

**Minor Adept** _Furious Bursts_ : Burst Skills grant Fury.

 

**Major Adept 1** _Wounding Precision_ : A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds).

 

**Major Adept 2** _Signet Mastery_ : Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).

 

**Major Adept 3** _Opportunist_ : Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).

 

**Minor Master** _Deep Strikes_ : Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).

 

**Major Master 1** _Blademaster_ : Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

 

**Major Master 2** _Unsuspecting Foe_ : Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (5 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).

 

**Major Master 3** _Sundering Burst_ : Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).

 

**Minor Grandmaster** _Bloodthirsty_ : Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).

 

**Major Grandmaster 1** _Furious_ : Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).

 

**Major Grandmaster 2** _Burst Supremacy_ : Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.

 

**Major Grandmaster 3** _Crisis_ : While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (15 sec ICD).

 

Damn is it fun to speculate!

 

 

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> I read you. So ultimately:

>

> **Minor Adept** _Furious Bursts_ : Burst Skills grant Fury.

>

> **Major Adept 1** _Wounding Precision_ : A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds, 3 second ICD).

If there is an ICD then remove the %chance or vice versa. No need for both.

> **Major Adept 2** _Signet Mastery_ : Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).

Wasn't it to remove the Ferocity Bonus and replace it with Lesser Signet of Fury or am I misreading somewhere?

> **Major Adept 3** _Opportunist_ : Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).

:+1:

> **Minor Master** _Deep STrikes_ : Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).

:+1:

> **Major Master 1** _Blademaster_ : Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

>

> **Major Master 2** _Unsuspecting Foe_ : Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (3 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).

If you want an ICD then make it 5 stacks for 5s. The goal there is to make it a stunbreak trap. Personally I want no ICD and have it be 3s duration. That way you have the option to CC someone, then swap to a high hit rate weapon and put a large stack of confusion on the foe. The skills that can do that are higher CD skills anyway, but then 19 stacks of confusion may be overkill.

> **Major Master 3** _Sundering Burst_ : Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).

:+1:

> **Minor Grandmaster** _Bloodthirsty_ : Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).

:+1: Although that double dips into Sun and Moon Style

> **Major Grandmaster 1** _Furious_ : Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).

:+1:

> **Major Grandmaster 2** _Burst Supremacy_ : Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.

:+1:

> **Major Grandmaster 3** _Crisis_ : While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (20 sec ICD).

:+1:

> kitten is it fun to speculate!

Sure as fuck is. Now you know why I'm constantly permeating through builds in game.

 

Current build is Hammer Berserker. Merciless Hammer in Berserk Mode makes me smile when I Fierce Blow spam all the bad players in WvW.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > I read you. So ultimately:

> >

> > **Minor Adept** _Furious Bursts_ : Burst Skills grant Fury.

> >

> > **Major Adept 1** _Wounding Precision_ : A percentage of your Precision is converted to Expertise (7%). Critical hits have a chance to inflict Torment (50% chance, 1 stack of Torment for 4 seconds, 3 second ICD).

> If there is an ICD then remove the %chance or vice versa. No need for both.

> > **Major Adept 2** _Signet Mastery_ : Stacking Ferocity Bonus, reduced recharge for signets, cast Lesser Signet of Fury when striking a foe (180 Precision, 180 Ferocity, 10 Adrenaline) (25 sec ICD, Lesser Signet active for 5 sec).

> Wasn't it to remove the Ferocity Bonus and replace it with Lesser Signet of Fury or am I misreading somewhere?

> > **Major Adept 3** _Opportunist_ : Increased outgoing damage to Vulnerable Foes (12.5% for 25 stacks of Vulnerability inflicted).

> :+1:

> > **Minor Master** _Deep STrikes_ : Gain adrenaline under the effects of Fury (2 Adrenaline per 1 sec interval). Fury improves condition damage (+180 Condi dmg).

> :+1:

> > **Major Master 1** _Blademaster_ : Gain Expertise (120). Gain condition damage while wielding a sword (120). Sword Skills have reduced recharge.

> >

> > **Major Master 2** _Unsuspecting Foe_ : Increased Critical Hit Chance against CC'd foes (50%). Striking CC'd foes inflicts Confusion on the enemy (3 stacks for 5 seconds, 9 second ICD).

> If you want an ICD then make it 5 stacks for 5s. The goal there is to make it a stunbreak trap. Personally I want no ICD and have it be 3s duration. That way you have the option to CC someone, then swap to a high hit rate weapon and put a large stack of confusion on the foe. The skills that can do that are higher CD skills anyway, but then 19 stacks of confusion may be overkill.

> > **Major Master 3** _Sundering Burst_ : Burst skills inflict Vulnerability (5 stacks, for 10 sec, 5 sec ICD), your Vulnerability lasts longer (25%) and you heal yourself for every stack of Vulnerability inlficted on foes (45 HP recovered per Vulnerability stack inflicted).

> :+1:

> > **Minor Grandmaster** _Bloodthirsty_ : Inflict Bleed (1 sec) on critical hits (33% chance). Your bleed lasts longer (15% longer). Heal for a percentage of your outgoing critical damage (7%).

> :+1: Although that double dips into Sun and Moon Style

> > **Major Grandmaster 1** _Furious_ : Gain bonus adrenaline on critical hits (+1). Gain a stacking Effect (for 10 sec, up to 25 stacks), which improves condi dmg (+10 per stack) and reduces incoming condition damage (0.2% per stack).

> :+1:

> > **Major Grandmaster 2** _Burst Supremacy_ : Burst skills have an increased Critical hit chance (100%). Consuming adrenaline grants 2 stacks of Unblockable (5s) per adrenaline bar spent.

> :+1:

> > **Major Grandmaster 3** _Crisis_ : While below the Health Threshold (75%), gain Quickness (5 sec) and Alacrity (5 sec) (20 sec ICD).

> :+1:

> > kitten is it fun to speculate!

> Sure as kitten is. Now you know why I'm constantly permeating through builds in game.

>

> Current build is Hammer Berserker. Merciless Hammer in Berserk Mode makes me smile when I Fierce Blow spam all the bad players in WvW.

>

 

Mhm I updated those minor changes. Decided to maintain the icd for unsuspecting foe and increase the confusion stacks.

 

Signet mastery would basically swap lesser signet of might for fury, therefore the current stacking ferocity bonus would remain.

 

As for the minor GM, perhaps it can be somehow altered and we can go for a sun and moon style combo for blademaster, but ig we can leave it as is for fun.

 

Berserker Hammer builds huh. Sounds very fun to play. The animation of hammer primal burst is probably my favourite primal burst too.

 

And finally, perhaps we could do this whole concept thing with Defense. I have less ideas about defense but 'll try to piece something out based on suggestions throughout this thread.

 

Do you believe other warrior mains would appreciate these changes to Arms? (Just realised how much better it will be to run on my mark and sundering leap with vulnerability heals and dmg traited in arms! what a way to augment almost unused skills!).

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> Berserker Hammer builds huh. Sounds very fun to play. The animation of hammer primal burst is probably my favourite primal burst too.

Well Rupturing Smash still does damage, so you can DPS with hammer fairly well as a Berserker still.

> And finally, perhaps we could do this whole concept thing with Defense. I have less ideas about defense but 'll try to piece something out based on suggestions throughout this thread.

Really it's only the top line of traits that need work on Defense. That and there should be more retaliation in the line and more effects related to retaliation.

> Do you believe other warrior mains would appreciate these changes to Arms? (Just realised how much better it will be to run on my mark and sundering leap with vulnerability heals and dmg traited in arms! what a way to augment almost unused skills!).

 

The meta traits were just upgraded and underperforming traits were made to synergize with the condi line more. I'm sure it would be appreciated if Anet made those changes.

[Girth.9731]

> @"Mighty Cole.7849" said:

> Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

>

> It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

 

Yeah Healing Signet was way overnerfed. Believe me, I was one of the last holdouts who swapped to Mending because I loved the gameplay that the passive heal promoted, but Mending is _way_ better than Healing Signet right now. There really isn't even a comparison to be made honestly. I wish Anet would give Healing Signet a little love so I could use it again.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Girth.9731" said:

> > @"Mighty Cole.7849" said:

> > Healing Signet was nerfed too hard. The passive base heal should have been reduced to 326 to match the healing potential of Mending. It would have created more diversity in builds and the only trade off would be whether you wanted to clear conditions or have access to resistance. Mending would still synergize better with Peak Performance, whereas Healing Signet would benefit from Signet Mastery. Right now, it's too anemic regardless of what build you're running.

> >

> > It's never a good sign when the paradigm is, "Choose this skill because it doesn't suck as much as the other skills". :wink:

>

> Yeah Healing Signet was way overnerfed. Believe me, I was one of the last holdouts who swapped to Mending because I loved the gameplay that the passive heal promoted, but Mending is _way_ better than Healing Signet right now. There really isn't even a comparison to be made honestly. I wish Anet would give Healing Signet a little love so I could use it again.

 

It didn't help that they then BUFFED Mending with more condition removal.

 

I parsed out the healing nerfs across the classes from the Feb. 2020 patch and I came to the realization that they were just purposefully pushing people to other healing skills/traits and away from others for the sake of making them use other skills/traits for a while and had nothing at all to do with 'balance' in the slightest.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

 

Dogged March:

Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

 

Defy Pain:

This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

 

It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

 

 

Armored Attack:

You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.

Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

 

Last Stand

Stances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.

With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

>

> Dogged March:

> Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

>

> Defy Pain:

> This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

>

> It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

>

>

> Armored Attack:

> You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.

> Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

>

> Last Stand

> Stances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.

> With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

>

 

Im a fan of these ideas!

 

What do you think about Cull the Weak? We had discussed this in the past, but with these ideas on the table, maybe it can become a "Weaken foes when striking with bursts skills, deal more dmg to weakened foes". Ofc we would give a necessary icd so we don't have perma weakness access. I can definitely see how weakness in the traitline can work as a "the best defense is offense" idea, but currently cull the weak doesnt promote that. Adrenal health definetely does tho and with a rework Rage Sig, I can see a lot of value out of this.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Here is an idea for Defense. It is supposed to be out self sustain line, but has been gutted. With these recommendations I am leaning into Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health as traitline mechanics, namely giving ways to gain Adrenal Health that do not involve bursts and a few more ways to gain Retaliation for the damage reduction via Spiked Armor.

> >

> > Dogged March:

> > Gain 1 stack of Adrenal Health when you are inflicted with a movement impairing condition. These conditions have reduced duration (66%).

> >

> > Defy Pain:

> > This trait now grants Protection for 4s and Resistance for 4s when you break a stun. 10s ICD.

> >

> > It is thematic for the name Defy Pain, and it gives the warrior some needed defensive boons. In particular it would help Berserker a great deal. Not related to Adrenal Health or Retaliation, but Defy Pain needs to be fixed and this is a decent way of doing it. It is reliant on breaking a stun, and yes it could be used with Rousing Resilience to really take very little damage after a stun break, but unlike RR this has an ICD.

> >

> >

> > Armored Attack:

> > You gain 10% of your toughness as power. Gain Retaliation (5s) when you inflict weakness on a foe. Gaining Retaliation grants you might (3 stacks for 5s). 15s CD.

> > Gives another source of Retaliation to fuel Spiked Armor, but also gives a rider that gaining retaliation gives you some might.

> >

> > Last Stand

> > Stances last 1s longer and have 20% reduced CD. Activating a stance grants 1 stack of Adrenal Health and 5s of Retaliation. 15s CD.

> > With this you have some decent sustain, nothing overbearing. With this change you have the option for fairly strong physical damage reduction via RR, condi mitigation via Cleansing Ire, or general sustain via Last Stand.

> >

>

> Im a fan of these ideas!

Thank you. I keep trying to think of how DP and LS can be reworked by the Dev team in a way that won't cause the balance team to slap another lazy 300s CD on them...

> What do you think about Cull the Weak? We had discussed this in the past, but with these ideas on the table, maybe it can become a "Weaken foes when striking with bursts skills, deal more dmg to weakened foes". Ofc we would give a necessary icd so we don't have perma weakness access. I can definitely see how weakness in the traitline can work as a "the best defense is offense" idea, but currently cull the weak doesnt promote that. Adrenal health definetely does tho and with a rework Rage Sig, I can see a lot of value out of this.

 

I'll have to go back through the discussion and remind myself, but this is till pretty much an ongoing discussion over what exactly to do with Defense (not to mention Berserker).

 

I feel like, while we all come up with awesome sounding ideas, that they all somewhat jump the shark. With these suggestions I was more taking a step back to take a higher altitude look.

 

Defense has both Spiked Armor and Adrenal Health to leverage for self sustain, however Spiked Armor is the only source of core Retaliation outside of runes and Adrenal Health requires _hitting_ with a burst. So, giving via the traitline other ways to gain Retaliation and Adrenal Health make sense.

 

Replacing the Regen on DM with AH seemed pretty obvious.

Changing DP to gain Protection and and Resistance on stunbreak made sense given the theme of the trait, with a CD to keep it from becoming a bunker cancer trait made sense.

Armored Attack made sense to correlate to Spiked Armor somehow. Linking it to weakness yields trait synergy within the traitline which is a good thing. Giving a small might gain also plays into the them of 'Armored Attack' but also via Strength and Tactics gives an avenue of some more self sustain.

Last Stand, I replaced the Lesser Balanced Stance proc and Vigor with Adrenal Health and Retaliation for some damage reduction and extra healing that you can trigger a bit more freely, again with a CD to keep it from becoming a bunker cancer trait.