Urphen.2857 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > If he did i am not sure he understands the builds or how the build system works probably not, but again he will find something to blame for this because it's easier to complain than learning a bit about classes, mechanics and the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > > > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > > > > > > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, when I said > > > > > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > > > > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > > > > > > > > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. > > > > > > > > You build could been nerfed as anet nerfs overperforming skills. Why did you delete your gear even. You could tweaked on where you saw you fell back. Instead try to use same . Thats how builds are made through trail and error. Core didnt have trail and error as few enemies could serviev more than 3 hits > > > > > > thats another problem, im all for trial and error. but the crux was the last 2 dogs in pof starter mission. were talking ½ hour of hardcore > > > play, just to GET to the next trial. kitten that, my thief is still rotting there. together with my ele. perhaps the worms can use them, so theyre not > > > totally wasted. > > > > So you took the 2 most fragile classes in game wich both rellies on high dps to surviev. And the first time i played pof was on a low end laptop with 20fps. But you also took the 2 hardest classes to play in first pof then its obvius you arent playing alot wich leads to less knowledge . You seem to quite mmo if its rising in difficulty from starting zone so it is obvius you didnt like gw2 core beyond queensdale. You say that you represent all casuals but you arent most casuals learned to adapt nothing in open world is really hardcore. No one became good instantly. Hots biggest diffrence is the mobs actually fights back. Problem with hot was core didnt teach build making as you could beat it with only uttility skills and no weapon or just use no gear. Also the jungle was meant to feel dangerouse if they had same difficulty as core game hot would been beaten and forgotten in matter of a day. A mmo isnt built on easy content but to play and interact with others > > not first, i had my ranger, guardian, mesmer, warrior go through first, with varying degrees of difficulty. and necro too ofc. > "interact with others"...its a solo story mission. and all (successful) mmos ARE build on easy content. even wow nerfed the starting zones. > at launch, the tutorial boss was a lot harder in this game too. > difficult with good rewards, and the harcores will farm it, while screaming for more > difficult with bad rewards, and noone will touch it. its all about the shinies. The hardcore players left open world ages ago they are in instanced content . But then again you dont want game to be challenging . The reason wow is getting worse is due to nerf. For me it seems like you want this to focus on single player and be easy like alot of mobil mmos who has function wich plays for you. You were already decided to dislike most of the game for in your view the difficulty shouldnt change all maps should be like queensdale with enemies in that lvl but thats how a game dies for it wont have a sence of progress it would be a game you finish the move on to the next game. A normal mmo player is playing more than 1 or 2 hours a week. Casual players play mostly 2-3 hours a week should anet focus on apeasing s person who barly plays the game or the person whos actually active and playing the game . You also forgot ppl quited hot due to pricing they saw it included core game in the price so they left due to they felt they paid for something they already paid for. And burnout exists in mmorpgs so ppl do take pauses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > No. > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > Now, when I said > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. Uh, all builds have a questionable outcome except for Meta builds because the only builds that have really been extensively tested are Meta builds. What you and a lot of players would benefit from is a deeper understanding of the meta. Having Boons, buffs, and a purpose for each build will perform substantially better than a generalist playstyle. Also gear. You need to make sure your gear is all level 80 and at least rares if you're confident, exotics if you've got ab it extra currency to blow. Being able to stack 25 might, fury, swiftness while having some survivability with extra VIT is better than going full on glass cannon build in open world. You also have to realize that a lot of META builds are META in **Group** content, which assumes that everyone has a role to fill and is filling that role. Healers/supports cover the sustain and boons, DPS covers damage/cc. This is in general and not always the case as sometimes supports cover CC or there's no healer. You can a djust your build to give more invuln frames, more sustain, or more dodges, stunbreaks, or CC to break the mob. However, most, if not all the time, dying in open world or LW story instances is just a learn to play issue. There are very, very few exceptions (Mostly big open world events where there's so many players you can't see what's going on.) but Solo and small groups, there's almost no reason to die. You have clear visibility of the mob. You can observe what it does and come up with a strategy to either cheese it, avoid it's big damage, or kill it outright before it can do the big damage. You can avoid the big hits by learning what it (the mob) does before it does the attack. This was taught in Arah Explorable with Giganticus Lupicus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > No. > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > Now, when I said > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. It was you. It's almost never the gear in this game. What I find most interesting here, you are obviously a player who struggles with even the easiest content in this game, yet at no point in time have you ever considered using a guide, instructions or even basic research to help you overcome and improve. There are open worls builds (maybe look up Lord Hizen's youtube guides on his open world builds. Feel free to use budget gear). There are how-to guides left an right for each and every mission and content. New players to this game are breezing through the content like it is nothing rushing to the games most challenging content (T4 CMs and raids, evident by their AP and asking them about when they started). Yet you can't manage to find a way to improve just that tad bit to overcome story missions. At some point one must ask themselves: is it the game, or the personal approach one takes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikaru.7618 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > No. > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > Now, when I said > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. Playing it wrong. Thief has near invincibility against standard trash mobs between the insane healing on crit and blind fields. Anything thats not a group event champion or bounty should be pretty trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > No. > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > Now, when I said > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. You've claimed the game makes you "dump a build you know how to use" and now you write about DD build? If we're talking about HoT then you couldn't learn how to play DD beforehand. If we're talking about later content (that isn't harder than HoT) then failing open world (or story content) on DD proves you didn't learn anything about the class/build you were using. Because of the evades in addition to excellent passive sustain from traits paired with solid cleave, it's a great espect to play even as a glass cannon. If you're scared of having low max hp then naturally you can "fix" that by adding more vitality. Tbh I still (or even moreso now) don't understand what your complaint here is. Is it that you need to ACTUALLY understand the mechanics of the game and the class you play? Is it that you have a choice of skills and traits you need to pick in a semi-coherent manner and that's already too much for you? Is it that you need to get gear for your build (which is cheap, seeing as all you need is literally lvl80 exotics and some runes)? Is it that you can't complete the content and get everything in the game by just holding "1", so it's automatically somehow "too hard"? Are you even sure you've wanted to play mmorpg? If you don't understand something or have problems with specific encounters then read up on wiki or ask questions in "players helping players" section on this forum. There's plenty of people that will help you. But it seems you don't want to be helped and don't want to get better. If you think the game will get nerfed to oblivion because you don't want to learn it then you'll be left disappointed, I don't think there's much more to say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > No. > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > Now, when I said > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. Yes. It's because you played it "wrong". Was that ever really a question, given what you've seen? Daredevil is a great spec for open world. It was my first 80 and I had no trouble with it. So, yes, there are things you could do differently to perform better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > > > No. > > > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > > > Now, when I said > > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. > > It was you. It's almost never the gear in this game. > > What I find most interesting here, you are obviously a player who struggles with even the easiest content in this game, yet at no point in time have you ever considered using a guide, instructions or even basic research to help you overcome and improve. > > There are open worls builds (maybe look up Lord Hizen's youtube guides on his open world builds. Feel free to use budget gear). There are how-to guides left an right for each and every mission and content. New players to this game are breezing through the content like it is nothing rushing to the games most challenging content (T4 CMs and raids, evident by their AP and asking them about when they started). Yet you can't manage to find a way to improve just that tad bit to overcome story missions. > > At some point one must ask themselves: is it the game, or the personal approach one takes? He only likes starting areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > > > No. > > > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > > > Now, when I said > > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. > > Yes. It's because you played it "wrong". Was that ever really a question, given what you've seen? Daredevil is a great spec for open world. It was my first 80 and I had no trouble with it. So, yes, there are things you could do differently to perform better. too late. not gonna work on something that has so low chance of success. and even if i found a functional build, theres no more content for me anyway. maybe ill play around with some low lvl toons at some point, but thats it. and they wont get many sales from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 The "mobs just stand there waiting for you to punch them and have no relevant abilities" model of MMOGs is horrible. Absolute trash gameplay that we left behind in 1999. One thing the GW2 expansions did *really well* is actually give us an open world that plays a bit more like the explorable areas in GW1, with small groups of enemies that have impactful abilities and sorta work as a team. (You saw this in some parts of the Core as well, e.g. with Orrian undead or the Dredge. So let's not pretend this is some grand cosmic betrayal.) The presence of "PvP-like elements" in PvE combat — interrupting enemies, choosing targets to focus fire, timing your active defenses, making a synergistic build that actually accomplishes some goal — has always been a huge selling point for the series, even for people who don't actually play PvP. This is the series *finding itself* again. All of this is completely within reach for "casual" players who don't do any of the grinding- or progression- oriented content. It's weird and insulting to pretend that anyone who isn't throwing their life away on a game is some kind of baby that needs to be spoon-fed everything; incredibly average video-game players figure out games every bit as complex and demanding _and opaque_ as MMOs in like 20 or 50 hours, but here in MMO forum land we're going to sit around and pretend that someone who's been playing a game every week for years is being unfairly challenged by mechanics like "don't stand on orange line" and "make blue bar go down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"ASP.8093" said: > The "mobs just stand there waiting for you to punch them and have no relevant abilities" model of MMOGs is horrible. Absolute trash gameplay that we left behind in 1999. > > One thing the GW2 expansions did *really well* is actually give us an open world that plays a bit more like the explorable areas in GW1, with small groups of enemies that have impactful abilities and sorta work as a team. (You saw this in some parts of the Core as well, e.g. with Orrian undead or the Dredge. So let's not pretend this is some grand cosmic betrayal.) The presence of "PvP-like elements" in PvE combat — interrupting enemies, choosing targets to focus fire, timing your active defenses, making a synergistic build that actually accomplishes some goal — has always been a huge selling point for the series, even for people who don't actually play PvP. This is the series *finding itself* again. > > All of this is completely within reach for "casual" players who don't do any of the grinding- or progression- oriented content. It's weird and insulting to pretend that anyone who isn't throwing their life away on a game is some kind of baby that needs to be spoon-fed everything; incredibly average video-game players figure out games every bit as complex and demanding _and opaque_ as MMOs in like 20 or 50 hours, but here in MMO forum land we're going to sit around and pretend that someone who's been playing a game every week for years is being unfairly challenged by mechanics like "don't stand on orange line" and "make blue bar go down." If they could just make the line more orange, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > If they could just make the line more orange, though... tbh that was a pretty good change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > > > > nope, orr has to go from the main storyline too, if they ever want it to be truly casual. they have already nerfed it twice, so the mobs arent > > > > > > > > > the big issue anymore, it is the maps and the content. > > > > > > > > > they can make hard content if they want, i am even willing to pay my share of it. > > > > > > > > > but dont expect me to pay unless they make some new casual content too > > > > > > > > > and LW is not casual. not at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, how is LW not casual when it's literally impossible to fail the new metas on the new maps and literally impossible to fail in the story if you pay any amount of attention? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not true, it is more casual though. you still have all the previous LWS before that. and i dont care about metas anyway > > > > > > > it is also a new form of LW, the reduction in difficulty is prolly the only reason for the name change > > > > > > > > > > > > Look, I was super casual when season 2 came out. (I used a shout heals warrior in full clerics, then a interrupt warrior with hammer/greatsword in cavalier's when unsuspecting foe was still a thing.) I was a bit less casual when season 3 came out (Utilizing meta builds and rotations) and my skill basically plateaued for a while there so it was about the same in Season 4 as I stopped caring about personal improvement. The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). None of the content outside of the achievements has actually been difficult or put up a challenge against the skillset one would develop by doing Fractal/Raid CMs, Raids, Strikes, Fractals, or Dungeons (pre HoT). It's literally impossible to fail any of the personal story. There's no failure state, you retry from checkpoint and go again. > > > > > > > > > > so i just have to dump the build, that i know how to use, and grind lots of gold, so i can get new runes for the new build, that i dont know anything about? > > > > > yea, thats totally casual, i am sure that people will flock to this new and stunning approach. its not like people got attached to their playstyle after only 80 lvls > > > > > > > > Such straw, very man. > > > > > > > > No. > > > > > > > > I didn't have trouble with my shout heals warrior. I didn't have trouble with my interrupt warrior. If all you gleamed from what I said here is "PlAy MeTa" Then you're blind to your own toxicity and are trying, either on purpose or otherwise, to undermine my argument with such things. > > > > > > > > Now, when I said > > > > > The only time I had any sort of problem with any of the content was going after the achievements and that's mostly because they require you to do very specific things or actually be good at fighting a boss (Kill x in 40 seconds or avoid this attack from this boss). > > > > I meant it from when Season 2 came out until today. The meaning behind this is, so long as you have a consistent, cohesive build that does something well and has traits selected that give good synergy with what it does, then this game is going to be pretty easy outside of endgame group content. There's no consequence for changing traits on your build so they make more sense. You wouldn't take a sword cooldown trait if it didn't provide anything beneficial to your build because you use maces and axes, would you? Core stat Exotics are also pretty cheap to come across if you're wanting to try a different build but not commit to it. There's also a plethora of stat-selectable armor that's relatively easy to get for the more niche stat sets. > > > > > > still a lot of work with a questionable outcome. i tried one of the meta DD builds, and was annihilated. was that because i played it wrong, or because the gear wasnt good enough? either way, no more fun on THAT toon. i would even have to grind, just to get my old build back. not gonna happen. > > > > Yes. It's because you played it "wrong". Was that ever really a question, given what you've seen? Daredevil is a great spec for open world. It was my first 80 and I had no trouble with it. So, yes, there are things you could do differently to perform better. > > too late. not gonna work on something that has so low chance of success. and even if i found a functional build, theres no more content for me anyway. > maybe ill play around with some low lvl toons at some point, but thats it. and they wont get many sales from that. Yikes. So you admit to playing something incorrectly, and, instead of adjusting your playstyle to help not die, you decide to just give up. Honestly, if that's the case, go back to those afk mobile games t hat play for you because this is an MMO. This is a video game. It's supposed to have some challenge. Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Alymer.3406 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"ASP.8093" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. > > In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!). But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > core is the bait to lure new players in, nothing more. a job it has done well, despite its flaws. > > > > > > > > Yes it did a good job in the first 4 months. After that its job became less and less worthy. > > > > > > > > > expansions have to sell themselves, based on their own strengths. > > > > > > > > Expansions sell to players that are finished with the core experience, players that haven't finished the core, or quit very early, aren't likely to buy an expansion. Some games solve this issue by streamlining their original experience and making it much faster, so players can reach the good content of the expansion sooner. Guild Wars 2 didn't do anything of the sort. > > > > > > > > > and that is where the problem is: they have so litte in common with core > > > > > > > > First, for someone that played this game for the 3 years between release and the launch of the expansion they are very similar, in fact outside the confusing three dimensional map there is very little in terms of challenge/difficulty in HOT that players didn't face during S1 and S2, it was more of a natural progression. Sure those that quit the game early and then came back 3 years later expecting the expansion to be more like the original game, bypassing 3 full years of progress, would say that there is little in common with core. But the players that actually played the game? Not so much. > > > > > > > > > that they dont appeal to most of the players there > > > > > > > > Actually NCsoft didn't tell us that "core players converting to HOT were less than expected", they said "FREE players converting to HOT were less than expected", there is a vast difference between the two phrases. The first phrase would indicate the expansion didn't sell well among the **current** players, those who stayed with the game after S1/S2, the most loyal customers of Arenanet. But they didn't say that, meaning the current player conversion to HOT wasn't unexpected. The problem was with FREE players not converting > > > > > > > > > mmos normally try to unite the players, designing it to be split this way was a big mistake. > > > > > > > > There was no split though. HOT was the natural progression after S1 and S2. It only felt as a split to those who quit the game after they reached Orr, ignored three full years of content releases, then came back for the expansion expecting more of the original Core game. > > > > > > games drop down the list with their age, this is nothing new. AFAIK they had roughly 50k box sales every month right before F2P. > > > that is a solid number, considering the age, and the competition back then > > > of course the expansions dont sell well, since they are so different from the core game > > > casual gamer: this is great, i cant wait for the expansions. but he doesnt get them , because they dont exist. no sale > > > hardcore gamer: i have to slug through 80 levels of this trash to get to the good parts? back to the old mmo. no sale > > > > More like... > > > > Casual gamer: This is great! In the expansions there is tons of content that is easily accessible and doesn't require practicing with a premade group! > > Hardcore gamer: There are raids in GW2 PvE now? Cool! > > A Potato: I'ma go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. > > yep. all 200k casual players, that the game stilll had, finished the expansions. sto was down to 200k at one point, that made them sell out to > perfect world. CoX had more, when they shut that down. co is at roughly 300k, and they are on life support. > numbers like that are practically devastating for a big mmo CoX never had 200k concurrent. Ever. Not even during the peak of it's popularity (the 6 months following CoV) When CoX was online you could very easily see just how many people were playing at any given point via a site that showed just how many people were on each server. The server numbers were easily generated as each zone gave it's population (including players in associated instances) CoX rarely peaked over 70k. The night they shut down they had less than 15k. I was there. Why are you inventing false statistics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holgarf.6581 Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 If I recall, HoT was made more difficult because some folks felt the core Tyrian content was too easy... so Anet went the other extreme by making HoT pretty tough for a lot of class types (but not all). By the time PoF rolled around they got the balance for the second expansion just right which kind of works out when you go back to HoT... it still offers a challenge but isn't as brutal as it was going from Tyria to HoT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > > > > core is the bait to lure new players in, nothing more. a job it has done well, despite its flaws. > > > > > > > > > > Yes it did a good job in the first 4 months. After that its job became less and less worthy. > > > > > > > > > > > expansions have to sell themselves, based on their own strengths. > > > > > > > > > > Expansions sell to players that are finished with the core experience, players that haven't finished the core, or quit very early, aren't likely to buy an expansion. Some games solve this issue by streamlining their original experience and making it much faster, so players can reach the good content of the expansion sooner. Guild Wars 2 didn't do anything of the sort. > > > > > > > > > > > and that is where the problem is: they have so litte in common with core > > > > > > > > > > First, for someone that played this game for the 3 years between release and the launch of the expansion they are very similar, in fact outside the confusing three dimensional map there is very little in terms of challenge/difficulty in HOT that players didn't face during S1 and S2, it was more of a natural progression. Sure those that quit the game early and then came back 3 years later expecting the expansion to be more like the original game, bypassing 3 full years of progress, would say that there is little in common with core. But the players that actually played the game? Not so much. > > > > > > > > > > > that they dont appeal to most of the players there > > > > > > > > > > Actually NCsoft didn't tell us that "core players converting to HOT were less than expected", they said "FREE players converting to HOT were less than expected", there is a vast difference between the two phrases. The first phrase would indicate the expansion didn't sell well among the **current** players, those who stayed with the game after S1/S2, the most loyal customers of Arenanet. But they didn't say that, meaning the current player conversion to HOT wasn't unexpected. The problem was with FREE players not converting > > > > > > > > > > > mmos normally try to unite the players, designing it to be split this way was a big mistake. > > > > > > > > > > There was no split though. HOT was the natural progression after S1 and S2. It only felt as a split to those who quit the game after they reached Orr, ignored three full years of content releases, then came back for the expansion expecting more of the original Core game. > > > > > > > > games drop down the list with their age, this is nothing new. AFAIK they had roughly 50k box sales every month right before F2P. > > > > that is a solid number, considering the age, and the competition back then > > > > of course the expansions dont sell well, since they are so different from the core game > > > > casual gamer: this is great, i cant wait for the expansions. but he doesnt get them , because they dont exist. no sale > > > > hardcore gamer: i have to slug through 80 levels of this trash to get to the good parts? back to the old mmo. no sale > > > > > > More like... > > > > > > Casual gamer: This is great! In the expansions there is tons of content that is easily accessible and doesn't require practicing with a premade group! > > > Hardcore gamer: There are raids in GW2 PvE now? Cool! > > > A Potato: I'ma go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. > > > > yep. all 200k casual players, that the game stilll had, finished the expansions. sto was down to 200k at one point, that made them sell out to > > perfect world. CoX had more, when they shut that down. co is at roughly 300k, and they are on life support. > > numbers like that are practically devastating for a big mmo > CoX never had 200k concurrent. > Ever. > Not even during the peak of it's popularity (the 6 months following CoV) > When CoX was online you could very easily see just how many people were playing at any given point via a site that showed just how many people were on each server. The server numbers were easily generated as each zone gave it's population (including players in associated instances) > CoX rarely peaked over 70k. > The night they shut down they had less than 15k. I was there. > > Why are you inventing false statistics? if they have 70k online, then they have over 500k total. people need to sleep too. and i meant when the decision was made, having 15k online in the very last seconds is actually quite good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"Holgarf.6581" said: > If I recall, HoT was made more difficult because some folks felt the core Tyrian content was too easy... so Anet went the other extreme by making HoT pretty tough for a lot of class types (but not all). By the time PoF rolled around they got the balance for the second expansion just right which kind of works out when you go back to HoT... it still offers a challenge but isn't as brutal as it was going from Tyria to HoT. pof is prolly the most unpopular expansion, and i have given up getting some of my toons through it. it is better than hot, but that doesnt say much. but it has better maps , too bad they made them such a PITA to play in . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > @"ASP.8093" said: > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. > > > > In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!). > > But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up. login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards. if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Holgarf.6581" said: > > If I recall, HoT was made more difficult because some folks felt the core Tyrian content was too easy... so Anet went the other extreme by making HoT pretty tough for a lot of class types (but not all). By the time PoF rolled around they got the balance for the second expansion just right which kind of works out when you go back to HoT... it still offers a challenge but isn't as brutal as it was going from Tyria to HoT. > > pof is prolly the most unpopular expansion, and i have given up getting some of my toons through it. it is better than hot, but that doesnt say much. > but it has better maps , too bad they made them such a PITA to play in . Most unpopular for you perhaps? Given that there are only two expansions, though, there really isn't much competition between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Holgarf.6581" said: > > If I recall, HoT was made more difficult because some folks felt the core Tyrian content was too easy... so Anet went the other extreme by making HoT pretty tough for a lot of class types (but not all). By the time PoF rolled around they got the balance for the second expansion just right which kind of works out when you go back to HoT... it still offers a challenge but isn't as brutal as it was going from Tyria to HoT. > > pof is prolly the most unpopular expansion, and i have given up getting some of my toons through it. it is better than hot, but that doesnt say much. > but it has better maps , too bad they made them such a PITA to play in . It just goes to show you what happens when you listen to the noisiest complainers. They exaggerate everything and speak as if they represent everyone else, but when you give them what they say they want they don't stop complaining and they still don't play. HoT is clearly the more active and popular expansion of the two, as you say. I hope they've learned their lesson on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > > @"Holgarf.6581" said: > > > If I recall, HoT was made more difficult because some folks felt the core Tyrian content was too easy... so Anet went the other extreme by making HoT pretty tough for a lot of class types (but not all). By the time PoF rolled around they got the balance for the second expansion just right which kind of works out when you go back to HoT... it still offers a challenge but isn't as brutal as it was going from Tyria to HoT. > > > > pof is prolly the most unpopular expansion, and i have given up getting some of my toons through it. it is better than hot, but that doesnt say much. > > but it has better maps , too bad they made them such a PITA to play in . > > It just goes to show you what happens when you listen to the noisiest complainers. They exaggerate everything and speak as if they represent everyone else, but when you give them what they say they want they don't stop complaining and they still don't play. HoT is clearly the more active and popular expansion of the two, as you say. I hope they've learned their lesson on that! But what are the true reasons for that? Is it that HoT is simply more loot-rewarding rather than the preference for the content? Is it that some players don't care for the expansiveness of PoF or the aggro radii? There are probably many factors that need to be considered before determining that future content should mirror HoT. Just my opinion. I admire the maps in HoT, but do not like going there. I prefer PoF, but hate the aggro. For me, I'd like to see a better mix of both. Some of the LW maps did a better job of this for me, but now they're laggy as all heck so I'm spending most of my time in core maps now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"ASP.8093" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. > > > > > > In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!). > > > > But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up. > > login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards. > if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples So you should have no problem re-gearing your Daredevil then. And around and around we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 > @"battledrone.8315" said: > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > @"ASP.8093" said: > > > > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said: > > > > Video games are about the reward of overcoming a challenge, not a power trip fantasy that gets boring in 2 hours. > > > > > > In fairness, video games are usually both: a challenge to overcome and a power fantasy wrapped around it, to make overcoming a rather pedestrian sort of challenge (don't stand in orange circle) feel satisfyingly momentous in some way (you saved the world, commander!). > > > > But both are earned in some fashion, not just given out because you showed up. > > login rewards...literally the best gear, just for logging in. OTOH, i can spam buttons in super long fights without ANY rewards. > if you wanna talk about "earning " things, this game is prolly one of the worst examples What login rewards? Also what exactly are you arguing here? All you're proving is that there are multiple ways to get the same thing, which defeats the complaint about the difficulty level (or the amount of grind and whatever you were trying to complain about here) walling you off from content. If you're not interested in playing the game, improving yourself as a player and progressing through zones that aren't the equivalent of a literal starting zone, then you can still earn most of the things you """need""" through... yeah, logging in and doing the absolute basics. So what exactly is your complaint? You don't automatically DESERVE to complete every bit of content and achievement if all you want is pressing one button like you're in a starting zone. If that's what you expect from the game, then switch to some literal auto-play mobile pseudo-mmorpg. And you still didn't tell me which buld **that you know how to use** you were forced to abandon by the dificulty level of the content. Are you just throwing out empty claims like this constantly and when questioned about details you abandon it entirely, because what you've said is just false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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