Gear difference

[Ototo.3214]

I think it's already been said, but most people that stick to GW2 probably prefer it with the horizontal progression. I'm definitely one of those people and it's a big reason I stay.

On the contrary, I don't understand why people seem to prefer a gear treadmill...? Constantly increasing stats just gives the illusion of "moar damage" while also invalidating older content. Sure, you hit the thing harder, but more than likely the new thing on the new map now also has more hp, so by ratio it's no different than what you hit them for before. But because they had to make the new things have more stats, the old things are now much easier to kill which...eventually makes it pointless, because the rewards you get are usually linked to the lower tier stuff you no longer want because it's "just a skin" with crap stats.

FFXIV has this issue where they constantly have to increase the item level and change the tombstone types and older raids and trials are basically never done anymore. Whereas in GW2...raid wing 1, Spirit Vale, is still on the same playing field as the other, newer wings despite being the first wing, and people still run it.

Just sayin'.

[DataLore.3916]

I kinda knew that my comments would be taken badly it was rather like going into a shop called "We love cats" and telling them you hate cats and should buy a dog.

I am still playing this, even if its just because I have nothing else to do but I have not once finished an activity and got anything that made me go "Damn that was worth it".

 

With so many types of currencies its hard to know what they are for and if they are worth saving or farming.

When everything you get gear/weapons etc is useless and all you do is scrap them actually getting them seems worthless.

You scrap stuff to get mats to either sell or to make something but the only thing you need to make(and thats optional) is ascended gear you can buy an exotic set with the stats you want for 30 silver each part or 4G for something that is exactly the same but LOOKS different.

So basically everything to do in the game is all about scrapping what you get because 99% of the rewards are useless and there is nothing that will ever drop that is godlike so you are doing things to sell to ?????? Buy fashion?

I was thinking of transferring gold to gems and getting a living season but I thought "Why bother? Nothing better drops there and all I will be doing is farming a different area to scrap those drops to get the next area to do it all again."

 

I like games with god-tier gear that you have to either get really lucky while crafting or get lucky in a drop because I am now getting on in years and can't hit a ton of keys fast while trying to move around so having better gear would be good.......It's just a shame that this game has so many things to do and yet they are all basically the same thing.

[Linken.6345]

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> I kinda knew that my comments would be taken badly it was rather like going into a shop called "We love cats" and telling them you hate cats and should buy a dog.

> I am still playing this, even if its just because I have nothing else to do but I have not once finished an activity and got anything that made me go "kitten that was worth it".

>

> With so many types of currencies its hard to know what they are for and if they are worth saving or farming.

> When everything you get gear/weapons etc is useless and all you do is scrap them actually getting them seems worthless.

> You scrap stuff to get mats to either sell or to make something but the only thing you need to make(and thats optional) is ascended gear you can buy an exotic set with the stats you want for 30 silver each part or 4G for something that is exactly the same but LOOKS different.

> So basically everything to do in the game is all about scrapping what you get because 99% of the rewards are useless and there is nothing that will ever drop that is godlike so you are doing things to sell to ?????? Buy fashion?

> I was thinking of transferring gold to gems and getting a living season but I thought "Why bother? Nothing better drops there and all I will be doing is farming a different area to scrap those drops to get the next area to do it all again."

>

> I like games with god-tier gear that you have to either get really lucky while crafting or get lucky in a drop because I am now getting on in years and can't hit a ton of keys fast while trying to move around so having better gear would be good.......It's just a shame that this game has so many things to do and yet they are all basically the same thing.

 

You could always play wow mate it got exactly what you want a gear chase that make everything below newest content worthless and you can go back and 1 shot stuff so no need to press a ton of keys fast.

You do have to go to different areas and get drops then go to higher areas do it all again while selling your old stuff so its kinda the same experience tho.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"DataLore.3916" said:

> > I kinda knew that my comments would be taken badly it was rather like going into a shop called "We love cats" and telling them you hate cats and should buy a dog.

> > I am still playing this, even if its just because I have nothing else to do but I have not once finished an activity and got anything that made me go "kitten that was worth it".

> >

> > With so many types of currencies its hard to know what they are for and if they are worth saving or farming.

> > When everything you get gear/weapons etc is useless and all you do is scrap them actually getting them seems worthless.

> > You scrap stuff to get mats to either sell or to make something but the only thing you need to make(and thats optional) is ascended gear you can buy an exotic set with the stats you want for 30 silver each part or 4G for something that is exactly the same but LOOKS different.

> > So basically everything to do in the game is all about scrapping what you get because 99% of the rewards are useless and there is nothing that will ever drop that is godlike so you are doing things to sell to ?????? Buy fashion?

> > I was thinking of transferring gold to gems and getting a living season but I thought "Why bother? Nothing better drops there and all I will be doing is farming a different area to scrap those drops to get the next area to do it all again."

> >

> > I like games with god-tier gear that you have to either get really lucky while crafting or get lucky in a drop because I am now getting on in years and can't hit a ton of keys fast while trying to move around so having better gear would be good.......It's just a shame that this game has so many things to do and yet they are all basically the same thing.

>

> You could always play wow mate it got exactly what you want a gear chase that make everything below newest content worthless and you can go back and 1 shot stuff so no need to press a ton of keys fast.

> You do have to go to different areas and get drops then go to higher areas do it all again while selling your old stuff so its kinda the same experience tho.

 

OR the OP, @"DataLore.3916" , can play older games like Ragnarok Online where if you got that super rare drop (boss/mvp card, like the Golden Thief Bug Card for example) you'll basically be given overpowered stats if you affix it to your gear, older games are mostly without the gear treadmill of newer AAA MMORPGs, leaning closer to horizontal progression and have many different paths to BiS with some taking months to a year's worth of grinding just to see 1 piece drop but if you do get one of those overpowered stuff, you're basically set forever... and likely to get bored and quit eventually since there's no more challenge left other than farming for gold or random gear with nothing to spend on/for

[Danikat.8537]

This might sound strange but to me the rewards are largely irrelevant. The point of playing a game, and the point of doing any individual activity within it is to have fun doing it. If I get an item which is useful because it gives me more options for playing the game that's a nice bonus, but if I don't get anything I need it doesn't really matter because (hopefully) I enjoyed what I was doing and can keep playing without needing an amazing drop.

 

For an extreme example I really enjoy Untitled Goose Game, where you gain absolutely nothing as you progress. New areas unlock but you don't get any new abilities or items (not that you can keep anyway) or power-ups of any kind, you end the game as the exact same goose as you started. I also don't mind games where you need to do things in a specific order because items from one place are required to complete future content, but in that case I'd want it to be a guaranteed drop with uniform stats so completing it once is enough (the Zelda series is an example of this). When I'm stuck with the prospect of repeating the same area over and over hoping this time I get the right drop that's when I lose interest.

 

So I don't mind if most of the loot I pick up is going to be sold or salvaged, gold and crafting materials are always useful even if I don't have an immediate need for them. It may not be much on it's own but it adds up over time, and that enables me to get some other stuff, which yes is mainly cosmetics but I enjoy that too. I like being able to personalise my characters. I have a personality in mind for each of them so my approach is to think about what they would choose to wear, and then find skins which fit that theme.

[xoxin.8326]

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> I was thinking of transferring gold to gems and getting a living season but I thought "Why bother? Nothing better drops there and all I will be doing is farming a different area to scrap those drops to get the next area to do it all again."

 

I don't see how that's different from gear treadmills. All you do is grind more gear so you can do other raids...so you can get gear.

 

 

>I like games with god-tier gear that you have to either get really lucky while crafting or get lucky in a drop because I am now getting on in years and can't hit a ton of keys fast while trying to move around so having better gear would be good.......It's just a shame that this game has so many things to do and yet they are all basically ?the same thing.

You have a ton of options right now dude. I Recommend FFXIV.

 

[Algreg.3629]

I get where you are coming from and like those kinds of games also, but I guess you yourself understand that what you want pretty much goes against (at least the current) core values of the game. Only thing one can tell you is really play something else. How what you propose is supposed to be "insulting to the entire playerbase" eludes me though, I suspect alcoholic beverages involved.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

This game has no character power leveling. Everything you get gear wise for your toon is nothing but aesthetics. Once you have ascended level gear you have essentially have reached the max strength your toon will have. It is my god honest opinion that gw2 lacks the core principle of an mmo. And that is to level up your character to forever increase its power. Gw2 has none of that.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> This game has no character power leveling. Everything you get gear wise for your toon is nothing but aesthetics. Once you have ascended level gear you have essentially have reached the max strength your toon will have. It is my god honest opinion that gw2 lacks the core principle of an mmo. And that is to level up your character to forever increase its power. Gw2 has none of that.

 

You instead have to level up the way you play you character mainly by rotations so understanding why you use skill 4 before skill 2 on that class etc.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> This game has no character power leveling. Everything you get gear wise for your toon is nothing but aesthetics. Once you have ascended level gear you have essentially have reached the max strength your toon will have. It is my god honest opinion that gw2 lacks the core principle of an mmo. And that is to level up your character to forever increase its power. Gw2 has none of that.

 

so let's take a modern mmorpg like FF14 or WoW, you have vertical progression and item/power level ratings on your gearset.

 

Sample year of playing:

month1~3: you start fresh, manage to catch up and get to endgame, clear the relevant raid and get your BiS. cap your weeklies/dailies/etc. without fail. you do XXXX dps and clear the raid/contents in XXX time

 

month 6~9: new raid releases all your gear is worthless now, the item/power level is bumped up 30 points. you grind/craft dungeons/content to get to raiding minimum i/p level and raid, clear raid, get BiS. cap currencies without fail. difference? sure gear is "stronger" now but the enemies are also stronger and adjusted to the ilevel so your XXXX+5000 dps will still clear the content in XXX time not very far from the previous raids/content because you do the same relative damage to the bosses/enemies and you receive relatively the same damage from bosses/enemies as before because everything is adjusted to the current maximum item/power level

 

month 12~next year over: rinse and repeat.

 

_______________________

 

you're basically chasing a carrot on a stick attached to your head endlessly. increasing this rating or making your gear more "powerful" doesnt actually make you powerful in modern vertical progression MMORPGs because everything on the newest content scales alongside the power increase so you never really get stronger you're just given more reasons to pointlessly grind away. in the end, you're also farming for the skins/looks that come with raids for bragging rights.

 

GW2's horizontal progression isn't perfect by any means but it removes the pressure and the FOMO (fear of missing out) that naturally comes with vertical progression MMORPGs, that's a reason why a lot of players who like GW2 like the progression system as well. and yeah we can still farm for skins/looks for bragging rights or whatever your reason may be.

 

now for older MMORPGs with horizontal progression and some even with endless/uncapped leveling you can become so overpowered/godly that the game becomes a bore fast since nothing is ever a challenge anymore. also if such a particular system (no level cap, overpowered/god tier gear) came to modern MMORPGs, it doesnt matter if it's vertical prog or horizontal prog, people would protest about balance and the devs will never hear the end of it. these simply have no place in modern mmorpgs

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > This game has no character power leveling. Everything you get gear wise for your toon is nothing but aesthetics. Once you have ascended level gear you have essentially have reached the max strength your toon will have. It is my god honest opinion that gw2 lacks the core principle of an mmo. And that is to level up your character to forever increase its power. Gw2 has none of that.

>

> You instead have to level up the way you play you character mainly by rotations so understanding why you use skill 4 before skill 2 on that class etc.

 

What are you talken about, you dont have to lvl up at all. I have 8 toons and iv only lvled up 2 and that becauuse they are my 2 oldest toons from year 1-3. All others were with tombs or or xp scrolls.

Essentially you do not need to "lvl up" you toon in gw to be able to use the top end gear. You are gifted lvls in this game.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > This game has no character power leveling. Everything you get gear wise for your toon is nothing but aesthetics. Once you have ascended level gear you have essentially have reached the max strength your toon will have. It is my god honest opinion that gw2 lacks the core principle of an mmo. And that is to level up your character to forever increase its power. Gw2 has none of that.

>

> so let's take a modern mmorpg like FF14 or WoW, you have vertical progression and item/power level ratings on your gearset.

>

> Sample year of playing:

> month1~3: you start fresh, manage to catch up and get to endgame, clear the relevant raid and get your BiS. cap your weeklies/dailies/etc. without fail. you do XXXX dps and clear the raid/contents in XXX time

>

> month 6~9: new raid releases all your gear is worthless now, the item/power level is bumped up 30 points. you grind/craft dungeons/content to get to raiding minimum i/p level and raid, clear raid, get BiS. cap currencies without fail. difference? sure gear is "stronger" now but the enemies are also stronger and adjusted to the ilevel so your XXXX+5000 dps will still clear the content in XXX time not very far from the previous raids/content because you do the same relative damage to the bosses/enemies and you receive relatively the same damage from bosses/enemies as before because everything is adjusted to the current maximum item/power level

>

> month 12~next year over: rinse and repeat.

>

> _______________________

>

> you're basically chasing a carrot on a stick attached to your head endlessly. increasing this rating or making your gear more "powerful" doesnt actually make you powerful in modern vertical progression MMORPGs because everything on the newest content scales alongside the power increase so you never really get stronger you're just given more reasons to pointlessly grind away. in the end, you're also farming for the skins/looks that come with raids for bragging rights.

>

> GW2's horizontal progression isn't perfect by any means but it removes the pressure and the FOMO (fear of missing out) that naturally comes with vertical progression MMORPGs, that's a reason why a lot of players who like GW2 like the progression system as well. and yeah we can still farm for skins/looks for bragging rights or whatever your reason may be.

>

> now for older MMORPGs with horizontal progression and some even with endless/uncapped leveling you can become so overpowered/godly that the game becomes a bore fast since nothing is ever a challenge anymore. also if such a particular system (no level cap, overpowered/god tier gear) came to modern MMORPGs, it doesnt matter if it's vertical prog or horizontal prog, people would protest about balance and the devs will never hear the end of it. these simply have no place in modern mmorpgs

 

I dont play any of the two games you mentioned so i dont really understand the progression you are talken about.

 

U talk about gear being worthless....but once i got ascended maurder stats 4+ years ago there has not been a need for me to change gear at all in all this time. Im not joking either.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> What are you talken about, you dont have to lvl up at all. I have 8 toons and iv only lvled up 2 and that becauuse they are my 2 oldest toons from year 1-3. All others were with tombs or or xp scrolls.

> Essentially you do not need to "lvl up" you toon in gw to be able to use the top end gear. You are gifted lvls in this game.

 

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> U talk about gear being worthless....but once i got ascended maurder stats 4+ years ago there has not been a need for me to change gear at all in all this time. Im not joking either.

 

what I and @"Linken.6345" mean is that in GW2, you "level up" your "skill as a player" instead of your "player level" or your "item/gear level".

 

**what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

 

GW2 and GW1 (despite not being alike) were both designed to reward the player for good play and strategy rather than having overpowered gear and/or absurdly high character levels

 

EDIT: i never mentioned or talked anywhere in my reply that gear in either vertical progression or horizontal progression is "worthless". -> i merely pointed out the illusion of gaining power or becoming stronger in vertical progression games (games like World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy 14).

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

>

> **what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

>

 

This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......i wouldnt even care if i get a flying pile of gold flown right to my front door. I would never put my energy into there childish story of dragons and gods. Like i said befor iv had the same gear stats for 4 years. That should of told u how little i care about there stat system, equipment, how pve.

 

The only thing this gw2 has going for it is the 1 threw 0 skill system, tab targeting, free to dodge system. If the core mechanic of gw2 that i mentioned wasnt there i wouldn't have played gw2 from year 1. So please do t assume uv been playing longer and kbow more then me cuz u probably dont.

All i do is pvp i dout u can hold a candle in my shadow.

 

What i want is for lvling to be meaningfull as it is right now its really not in the grand sceme of things They might as well just make every new toon lvl 80 from the start. There ia no reason to atart up a new toon to juat lvl it at least in my eye not in the wake of all the tomes and acrolls.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> >

> > **what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

> >

>

> This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......i wouldnt even care if i get a flying pile of gold flown right to my front door. I would never put my energy into there childish story of dragons and gods. Like i said befor iv had the same gear stats for 4 years. That should of told u how little i care about there stat system, equipment, how pve.

>

> The only thing this gw2 has going for it is the 1 threw 0 skill system, tab targeting, free to dodge system. If the core mechanic of gw2 that i mentioned wasnt there i wouldn't have played gw2 from year 1. So please do t assume uv been playing longer and kbow more then me cuz u probably dont.

> All i do is pvp i dout u can hold a candle in my shadow.

>

> What i want is for lvling to be meaningfull as it is right now its really not in the grand sceme of things They might as well just make every new toon lvl 80 from the start. There ia no reason to atart up a new toon to juat lvl it at least in my eye not in the wake of all the tomes and acrolls.

 

If you mainly pvp wouldent you be happy you dont have to grind for new gears every few months and that everyone is on equal footing gearwise?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > >

> > > **what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

> > >

> >

> > This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......i wouldnt even care if i get a flying pile of gold flown right to my front door. I would never put my energy into there childish story of dragons and gods. Like i said befor iv had the same gear stats for 4 years. That should of told u how little i care about there stat system, equipment, how pve.

> >

> > The only thing this gw2 has going for it is the 1 threw 0 skill system, tab targeting, free to dodge system. If the core mechanic of gw2 that i mentioned wasnt there i wouldn't have played gw2 from year 1. So please do t assume uv been playing longer and kbow more then me cuz u probably dont.

> > All i do is pvp i dout u can hold a candle in my shadow.

> >

> > What i want is for lvling to be meaningfull as it is right now its really not in the grand sceme of things They might as well just make every new toon lvl 80 from the start. There ia no reason to atart up a new toon to juat lvl it at least in my eye not in the wake of all the tomes and acrolls.

>

> If you mainly pvp wouldent you be happy you dont have to grind for new gears every few months and that everyone is on equal footing gearwise?

 

On the pvp side of things yes.....but gw2 lacks the real mmo itch for me, where each lvl is meaningful either by getting new skill points or getting the elite peice of gear from a mob. Gw2 juat doeant have that....if u want new gear in gw2 u go grind a raid or in genral juat have to grind tokens for like everything. That just isn't my kind of mmo.

 

The devs have done pvp and the combat system so good but they have abandoned support for it.

 

Iv gone back to playing diablo 2lod for my mmo itch lmao. How funny is that.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......

 

i never mentioned PvE anywhere in my post lol. i mentioned GW2 (and GW1) requiring good play and strategy which can apply to PvP and WvW as well. but yeah that's enough it's pointless talking to you even more when i can barely understand the sentences you construct lol

[Algreg.3629]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > >

> > > > **what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......i wouldnt even care if i get a flying pile of gold flown right to my front door. I would never put my energy into there childish story of dragons and gods. Like i said befor iv had the same gear stats for 4 years. That should of told u how little i care about there stat system, equipment, how pve.

> > >

> > > The only thing this gw2 has going for it is the 1 threw 0 skill system, tab targeting, free to dodge system. If the core mechanic of gw2 that i mentioned wasnt there i wouldn't have played gw2 from year 1. So please do t assume uv been playing longer and kbow more then me cuz u probably dont.

> > > All i do is pvp i dout u can hold a candle in my shadow.

> > >

> > > What i want is for lvling to be meaningfull as it is right now its really not in the grand sceme of things They might as well just make every new toon lvl 80 from the start. There ia no reason to atart up a new toon to juat lvl it at least in my eye not in the wake of all the tomes and acrolls.

> >

> > If you mainly pvp wouldent you be happy you dont have to grind for new gears every few months and that everyone is on equal footing gearwise?

>

> On the pvp side of things yes.....but gw2 lacks the real mmo itch for me, where each lvl is meaningful either by getting new skill points or getting the elite peice of gear from a mob. Gw2 juat doeant have that....if u want new gear in gw2 u go grind a raid or in genral juat have to grind tokens for like everything. That just isn't my kind of mmo.

>

> The devs have done pvp and the combat system so good but they have abandoned support for it.

>

> Iv gone back to playing diablo 2lod for my mmo itch lmao. How funny is that.

 

Have you tried Black Lion Chests? I heard they sometimes offer gear upgrades. In case you are unaware of this, you can buy keys for those items in the store.

[DataLore.3916]

PVP is weird to me since you can make a level 1 toon and compete against level 80 removing any need to "work" at that toon aka so a new class comes out and its skills are much better than any other......So all you need to do is make that toon go to PVP and you are done.

No need to level it up, no need to gear it up the PVP system will make everyone the same, so now you have everyone playing that new toon. Now I do PVP for the daily but as I said I do not have the speed to be a great button masher but what is the point of a new class if you can make it level 80 in PVE in 1 minute with tomes of knowledge or PVP with it right away other than to say "It keeps everyone the same"?

 

I love to disagree with people but I will agree that there is something good about everyone using the same things I personally just see that as dull. Can you imagine if everyone in real life was exactly the same?

On one hand, you have all the gear the same and making the people who have good reflexes better than people with slow reflexes or to put it another way you have young people better than old people or healthy people better than people with disabilities.

So while you have all the gear the same you are in fact making the game bias against older people and disabled people.

I agree that having random gear stats etc is basically "dangling a carrot" but for a time all that work you put into the game makes you feel you have actually done something and its not as people seem to think that you get good gear finally and then its crap...That's just not true IF you got the really good gear and something new comes out you are already at an advantage because you have something good to farm that new stuff + you have something to do.

 

What have you got to do in this game?

Farm for a shiny looking coat?

Farm to make your mount go underwater?

The only things you have to do in this game amount to nothing.....it will not improve your class or the damage you do it will only change the way it LOOKS.Look at me I just farmed 60 hours for this new coat don't I look pretty?

So people are basically saying that they love this game because they don't have to farm for gear and they are farming for looks instead aka no gear war but a fashion war?

 

New content is supposed to be coming out and it will have ......new fashion and new things to do to get that fashion OR just a different currency to get the same things you get right now, just like(as far as I can tell) the living seasons they are content which has nothing new to add other than a different way to get the same crap you can get in the other maps and maybe some new ..........................FASHION.

 

[Linken.6345]

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> PVP is weird to me since you can make a level 1 toon and compete against level 80 removing any need to "work" at that toon aka so a new class comes out and its skills are much better than any other......So all you need to do is make that toon go to PVP and you are done.

> No need to level it up, no need to gear it up the PVP system will make everyone the same, so now you have everyone playing that new toon. Now I do PVP for the daily but as I said I do not have the speed to be a great button masher but what is the point of a new class if you can make it level 80 in PVE in 1 minute with tomes of knowledge or PVP with it right away other than to say "It keeps everyone the same"?

>

> I love to disagree with people but I will agree that there is something good about everyone using the same things I personally just see that as dull. Can you imagine if everyone in real life was exactly the same?

> On one hand, you have all the gear the same and making the people who have good reflexes better than people with slow reflexes or to put it another way you have young people better than old people or healthy people better than people with disabilities.

> So while you have all the gear the same you are in fact making the game bias against older people and disabled people.

> I agree that having random gear stats etc is basically "dangling a carrot" but for a time all that work you put into the game makes you feel you have actually done something and its not as people seem to think that you get good gear finally and then its kitten...That's just not true IF you got the really good gear and something new comes out you are already at an advantage because you have something good to farm that new stuff + you have something to do.

>

> What have you got to do in this game?

> Farm for a shiny looking coat?

> Farm to make your mount go underwater?

> The only things you have to do in this game amount to nothing.....it will not improve your class or the damage you do it will only change the way it LOOKS.Look at me I just farmed 60 hours for this new coat don't I look pretty?

> So people are basically saying that they love this game because they don't have to farm for gear and they are farming for looks instead aka no gear war but a fashion war?

>

> New content is supposed to be coming out and it will have ......new fashion and new things to do to get that fashion OR just a different currency to get the same things you get right now, just like(as far as I can tell) the living seasons they are content which has nothing new to add other than a different way to get the same kitten you can get in the other maps and maybe some new ..........................FASHION.

>

 

And story/lore dont forget that

[Taril.8619]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > >

> > > > **what you seem** to basically want is to be overgeared and/or overleveled for all the content in the game so that your level or your equipment will carry you instead of actually learning how to play better/improve your gameplay.

> > > >

> > >

> > > This is where you are so dead af wrong, its not even worth having a further convo with u...u assume that i pve......i wouldnt even care if i get a flying pile of gold flown right to my front door. I would never put my energy into there childish story of dragons and gods. Like i said befor iv had the same gear stats for 4 years. That should of told u how little i care about there stat system, equipment, how pve.

> > >

> > > The only thing this gw2 has going for it is the 1 threw 0 skill system, tab targeting, free to dodge system. If the core mechanic of gw2 that i mentioned wasnt there i wouldn't have played gw2 from year 1. So please do t assume uv been playing longer and kbow more then me cuz u probably dont.

> > > All i do is pvp i dout u can hold a candle in my shadow.

> > >

> > > What i want is for lvling to be meaningfull as it is right now its really not in the grand sceme of things They might as well just make every new toon lvl 80 from the start. There ia no reason to atart up a new toon to juat lvl it at least in my eye not in the wake of all the tomes and acrolls.

> >

> > If you mainly pvp wouldent you be happy you dont have to grind for new gears every few months and that everyone is on equal footing gearwise?

>

> On the pvp side of things yes.....but gw2 lacks the real mmo itch for me, where each lvl is meaningful either by getting new skill points or getting the elite peice of gear from a mob. Gw2 juat doeant have that....if u want new gear in gw2 u go grind a raid or in genral juat have to grind tokens for like everything. That just isn't my kind of mmo.

>

> The devs have done pvp and the combat system so good but they have abandoned support for it.

>

> Iv gone back to playing diablo 2lod for my mmo itch lmao. How funny is that.

 

Most MMO's have levels being meaningless. They're literally just there to put time gated grinding in place before you start grinding for gear. Exacerbated by the trend for MMO's to push people towards getting max level because all content is designed for max level characters.

 

You can argue "But I get new skills when I get X new levels" as meaningful leveling, but in reality such a system is no different to GW2's E-Specs where you get a new weapon set and set of utilities from unlocking it. Or if such games just added the new skill(s) to your character on expansion release.

 

The only times when levelling is meaningful, is when it takes a huge amount of grind to accomplish. For example, Anarchy Online has its 20 Shadow Levels after its 200 regular levels and each Shadow Level requires more experience than all previous levels combined (I.e. Shadow Level 1 > Level 1-200. Shadow Level 2 > Level 1-200 + Shadow Level 1 etc) while BDO has its experience diminishing returns where leveling slows down to almost a halt after reaching the "Soft Cap" (Though even then, any level after what is required for Awakening is pointless... With very minor stat increases)

 

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> what is the point of a new class if you can make it level 80 in PVE in 1 minute with tomes of knowledge or PVP with it right away other than to say "It keeps everyone the same"?

 

What's the point in making everyone grind out levels and gear when the end result is still "Everyone is still the same"?

 

What does it add to the game other than some boring grind before you get to **play** the game?

 

Heck, the constant gear grinding is what holds WoW's PvP back, because unless you start PvPing immediately at the beginning of an expansion and so earn your PvP gear at the earliest time possible, you're forever held back from being top tier competitive because there'll be people who just outright have better gear than you (This is made worse by the weekly caps on tokens used to buy the newest season gear... If this cap didn't exist then it'd actually be possible to catch up to be on an even footing with early PvPers)

 

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> I love to disagree with people but I will agree that there is something good about everyone using the same things I personally just see that as dull. Can you imagine if everyone in real life was exactly the same?

> On one hand, you have all the gear the same and making the people who have good reflexes better than people with slow reflexes or to put it another way you have young people better than old people or healthy people better than people with disabilities.

> So while you have all the gear the same you are in fact making the game bias against older people and disabled people.

 

Okay, first off, this is literally no different to having gear to grind out. Only that it takes a bit longer before everyone can "Get the same gear". With lesser skilled players not even able to get the best gear in the game (As it's usually put in the hardest content in the game which will have strict DPS checks and a lot of mechanics to deal with, meaning you **have to be a good player to even get a chance at the best gear**)

 

Secondly, there's plenty of older and/or disabled people whom can play games very well. I personally know several older people (Including players whom are 80+ years old) who can play games very well. Not to mention there's notable disabled players in some E-Sports (If I recall correctly, one of the best SSB players is disabled and uses his controller with his mouth) - As well as the hilarity that was all the responses to when "Games Journalists" tried to cry that the game Sekiro was too hard for disabled players where there was bunches of disabled players making videos of them beating the game...

 

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> I agree that having random gear stats etc is basically "dangling a carrot" but for a time all that work you put into the game makes you feel you have actually done something and its not as people seem to think that you get good gear finally and then its kitten...That's just not true IF you got the really good gear and something new comes out you are already at an advantage because you have something good to farm that new stuff + you have something to do.

 

Tell that to all the people who farmed WoW for Warforged gear with Tertiary stats and Sockets on.

 

Where they all said that it **did not** feel like an accomplishment and instead felt more like "Thank God that's over!"

 

Also, yes, as soon as you get good gear, it's trash. Since in order to get said gear, you have to grind out the hardest content in the game enough where by the time you get the gear you're fed up with it. Only, now, everything else in the game is pointless because no-one runs it and it's worthless for you to run it because it offers nothing and your gear trivialises it.

 

It's one of the major failings of the gear treadmill design. You grind to get gear to use... While you AFK in a city because you had to complete the hardest content in the game to GET the gear and so have nowhere to actually USE the gear. Meanwhile, when new content comes out, so does a bunch of catch-up gear so everyone can get up to the same level that you are anyway but with much less time and effort.

 

Of course, the irony is in a game like FFXIV, the hardest content in the game is Ultimate raids, which level syncs you down to below the best gear available (Which is from Savage raids) and means that you are better off using worse gear due to how gear syncs work in that game (Materia doesn't work in gear sync so you lose out on a ton of stats if you don't use lower level gear) and the reward from the content is... A shiny weapon skin.

 

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> What have you got to do in this game?

> Farm for a shiny looking coat?

> Farm to make your mount go underwater?

> The only things you have to do in this game amount to nothing.....it will not improve your class or the damage you do it will only change the way it LOOKS.Look at me I just farmed 60 hours for this new coat don't I look pretty?

> So people are basically saying that they love this game because they don't have to farm for gear and they are farming for looks instead aka no gear war but a fashion war?

 

That's basically all MMO's in a nutshell.

 

Once you do the required stuff in order to work on your max level gear (Which is often just run a raid once per week due to weekly lockouts and limited numbers of loot options) all your left with to do, is farm for shiny and cool looking items to make new outfits with.

 

The only difference between GW2 and gear treadmill MMO's, is that GW2 offers far more content that is actually enjoyable to play while you farm for pretty items compared to gear treadmill games where 90% of content is trivialized because of current expansion stat increases and gear levels making you stupid OP in all previous content.

 

It's one of my major qualms with the MMO genre in general, that most content has very little staying power, there's little reason to play beyond a bare minimum because everything is tuned to ultra-casual level so that in order to be maximally efficient in farming/progressing your character you only need to play for ~1 hour a day to do your dailies because god forbid if you reward people for spending time playing your game (In a genre that relies heavily on having constant populations for doing group content as well as is often tied to subscription based monetisation which provides more value for money when you play more...)

[Algreg.3629]

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> PVP is weird to me since you can make a level 1 toon and compete against level 80 removing any need to "work" at that toon aka so a new class comes out and its skills are much better than any other......So all you need to do is make that toon go to PVP and you are done.

> No need to level it up, no need to gear it up the PVP system will make everyone the same, so now you have everyone playing that new toon. Now I do PVP for the daily but as I said I do not have the speed to be a great button masher but what is the point of a new class if you can make it level 80 in PVE in 1 minute with tomes of knowledge or PVP with it right away other than to say "It keeps everyone the same"?

>

> I love to disagree with people but I will agree that there is something good about everyone using the same things I personally just see that as dull. Can you imagine if everyone in real life was exactly the same?

> On one hand, you have all the gear the same and making the people who have good reflexes better than people with slow reflexes or to put it another way you have young people better than old people or healthy people better than people with disabilities.

> So while you have all the gear the same you are in fact making the game bias against older people and disabled people.

> I agree that having random gear stats etc is basically "dangling a carrot" but for a time all that work you put into the game makes you feel you have actually done something and its not as people seem to think that you get good gear finally and then its kitten...That's just not true IF you got the really good gear and something new comes out you are already at an advantage because you have something good to farm that new stuff + you have something to do.

>

> What have you got to do in this game?

> Farm for a shiny looking coat?

> Farm to make your mount go underwater?

> The only things you have to do in this game amount to nothing.....it will not improve your class or the damage you do it will only change the way it LOOKS.Look at me I just farmed 60 hours for this new coat don't I look pretty?

> So people are basically saying that they love this game because they don't have to farm for gear and they are farming for looks instead aka no gear war but a fashion war?

>

> New content is supposed to be coming out and it will have ......new fashion and new things to do to get that fashion OR just a different currency to get the same things you get right now, just like(as far as I can tell) the living seasons they are content which has nothing new to add other than a different way to get the same kitten you can get in the other maps and maybe some new ..........................FASHION.

>

 

not sure why you are repeating yourself now over and over again. Yes, it is exactly this way. No, it is not the game for you. Bye.

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > @"Croc.1978" said:

> > > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > If you add in gear treadmill... Still no different. Everyone still wears the same stuff. They just have to re-obtain the new "Best" stuff at set intervals for... Reasons. Even more so is the lack of choice when progressing between "Bests" due to how much work it is to implement bunches of armour (You can see it in standard gear treadmill MMO's. New expansions drop that powercreeps everything released before, everyone replaces their shiny end game loot with quest rewards that are better, then gets to the new max level and grinds out their shiny end game loot again. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum)

> > > ...

> > > It's where skins is actually one of the best ways to keep loot meaningful. Since skins are timeless, they don't get outdated by new content (In fact, more content means more items to combine with them to make cool outfits), they're always relevant and there's never a "Best" skin that everyone will want to be using as its all based on subjectivity (What **you** think looks best with **your** outfit)

> >

> > Amen to that!

> >

> > I initially played GW2 from Open Beta to a couple of months after release. During development, Anet had made the promise that they would not ever introduce gear better than Exotic (similar to how it was in GW1).

> >

> > But then they suddenly gave in to the whiners and introduced Ascended gear. Upon reading the corresponding patch notes, I felt so cheated that I stopped playing immediately and didn't touch the game for more than 7 years. Only recently did I come back when I noticed Ascended was still the top tier stat-wise and indeed no further tiers had been introduced.

> >

> > So thx but no thx, the gear system is fine as it is. And BTW, I still think Ascended was a big mistake.

>

> I was one of the people against ascended gear when it first came out.

>

> We have it much easier now but when it was still new silk was ~ 3 silver each , compared to now where it's 30 copper. Light armor cost was through the roof and if you wanted to use it in WvW you were going to have to make a new set as well unless you're using the same stats. Essentially ascended armor was above the cost of legendary armor now.

>

> Despite the steep cost reduction over time and the increased gem to gold rate (such that you can "buy" it) , the adoption of ascended armor has been lower than anticipated judging by the addition of armor boxes to strikes.

 

And hardened leather section is about 10 silver each, so medium armor crafting (and since you need leather for all ascended armor, all crafting) is really expensive. Should bring getting leather to the same level as the other materials and it would be better, but now after you get 50 silk you might get 1 hardened leather. If you are lucky.

[dtox.8397]

> @"DataLore.3916" said:

> PVP is weird to me since you can make a level 1 toon and compete against level 80 removing any need to "work" at that toon aka so a new class comes out and its skills are much better than any other......So all you need to do is make that toon go to PVP and you are done.

> No need to level it up, no need to gear it up the PVP system will make everyone the same, so now you have everyone playing that new toon. Now I do PVP for the daily but as I said I do not have the speed to be a great button masher but what is the point of a new class if you can make it level 80 in PVE in 1 minute with tomes of knowledge or PVP with it right away other than to say "It keeps everyone the same"?

>

> I love to disagree with people but I will agree that there is something good about everyone using the same things I personally just see that as dull. Can you imagine if everyone in real life was exactly the same?

> On one hand, you have all the gear the same and making the people who have good reflexes better than people with slow reflexes or to put it another way you have young people better than old people or healthy people better than people with disabilities.

> So while you have all the gear the same you are in fact making the game bias against older people and disabled people.

> I agree that having random gear stats etc is basically "dangling a carrot" but for a time all that work you put into the game makes you feel you have actually done something and its not as people seem to think that you get good gear finally and then its kitten...That's just not true IF you got the really good gear and something new comes out you are already at an advantage because you have something good to farm that new stuff + you have something to do.

>

> What have you got to do in this game?

> Farm for a shiny looking coat?

> Farm to make your mount go underwater?

> The only things you have to do in this game amount to nothing.....it will not improve your class or the damage you do it will only change the way it LOOKS.Look at me I just farmed 60 hours for this new coat don't I look pretty?

> So people are basically saying that they love this game because they don't have to farm for gear and they are farming for looks instead aka no gear war but a fashion war?

>

> New content is supposed to be coming out and it will have ......new fashion and new things to do to get that fashion OR just a different currency to get the same things you get right now, just like(as far as I can tell) the living seasons they are content which has nothing new to add other than a different way to get the same kitten you can get in the other maps and maybe some new ..........................FASHION.

>

Heres something to do with your gold. You can buy LOTS of thing to make you game easier, like permanent stuff from Trading Post, and several items from Gem store (which is GREAT that u can trade gold> gems). You can craft a legendary, that has its worth way beyond the shiny looks, its actually useful.

Other MMOs are just the same thing, the only difference is that you have to do the MOST DULL thing ever: kills mobs the same way, over and over and over again, in order to get ur gear. The late game is basically everyone with the late game armor.

 

In PvP you get the MOST PvP thing ever: you fight with ur skills not ur gear. Its so boring to a harcore PvP player having to hardcore PVE for months in order to PvP. When you dont know if you are dying cuz u are doing something wrong or if it is the other player that is just too geared. In PvE you got Lore and some challenging stuff like raids, fractals.

 

So i ask you: **What do you enjoy the most in MMOs?** What makes you wanna play them?

Is it PvP? Good news! You can start right away!

Mass Pvp? WvW is what you are looking for.

Gear Progression? You could aim for legedandaries

Stuff that will make your in game experience easier? Buy permanent stuff (trading post) and devices/utility (gem store)

Challenging PvE? Maybe try some fractals, you will also need gear progression there, unlike most Meta events.

 

And last but DEFINITELY not least: Is it Fashion flexing? You can spend thousands and thousands of gold to get skins, dyes, outfits, mounts and mounts skins.

[DataLore.3916]

 

 

> @"dtox.8397" said:

 

 

 

> So i ask you: **What do you enjoy the most in MMOs?** What makes you wanna play them?

> Is it PvP? Good news! You can start right away!

> Mass Pvp? WvW is what you are looking for.

> Gear Progression? You could aim for legedandaries

> Stuff that will make your in game experience easier? Buy permanent stuff (trading post) and devices/utility (gem store)

> Challenging PvE? Maybe try some fractals, you will also need gear progression there, unlike most Meta events.

>

> And last but DEFINITELY not least: Is it Fashion flexing? You can spend thousands and thousands of gold to get skins, dyes, outfits, mounts and mounts skins.%%

 

 

I play PVP but only because it seems easier to get gold that way than running around a map just following someone and collecting junk to scrap to then sell.

I also get addicted to games even ones I don't like for example I played a game called Hades Star which is a time sink game that I thought "What's the point in this?" yet i have put 1200 hours into it.

 

I have to disagree with your point on Gear progression, I was told legendaries are just the same but you can swop the stats so it's not going to help kill shit faster so you really don't need one.

I agree that there are loads of things you can do but my point is.....What's the point in doing them when the reward is meaningless?

I'm not even saying the game is bad after all you can play for free and just do the story(But people dont do season 4 that is seriously messed up)but I am used to an MMO that has goals or something to grind for that will actually help you be more powerful and this game its all about the fashion.

 

I know it's never going to change(the game that is) and I know that 99% of people that play this like it the way it is but just thought I would moan.