Possible new weapons for the Cantha expansion?

[Naxos.2503]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> > @"Naxos.2503" said:

> > ...Easier to balance that way (which solves one of the biggest hurdle about that proposal).

>

> But is it? If these new bundle weapons are stronger than what's available now, won't they make the current choices the weaker options? Thus just becoming the new meta? And if "warrior with javelin" trumps them all due to trait synergy, won't that even be worse? And if the bundle weapons are weaker, akin to racial skills, won't the effort to create them be a waste?

>

> I'm all for new weapons, and new specializations, heck even new professions. But it's gotta work.

>

 

That's a fair point, a bundle would work as a third weapon switch of sort, which might indeed complicate builds. I hadn't anticipated that. I suppose it's easier to balance if they're made weaker, but add versatility to builds ?

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > @"Parasite.5389" said:

> > > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > Weapons? Why not bare-handed?

> >

> > new Global Elite spec: Monk

> >

> > (yes, it's a terrible idea)

>

> Guild War's Cantha was NOT based on racist stereotypes so I'm going to hope they give that a hard pass.

>

> In fact Guild Wars 1 was, before Eye of the North, completely lacking in ANY stereotypes and had richly detailed original cultures for all three 'base games'.

>

> Eye of the North then added Norn and Asura and made them both cheap parody stereotypes - with Norn even a stereotype of a real world people (they were, and still are, basically comedic drunken Vikings. Every stereotype you could thrown at a Nordic person other than being modular furniture salesmen...)

>

>

>

> That said, Monk IS a core Guild Wars class that didn't appear in GW2.

> We had skill lines for healing prayers, smiting prayers, and protection prayers. Weapons were things like rods and staffs, and a focus in off hand with rod.

>

> In other words, Monk is a caster for the Healer role - not something from lazy racist ethnic stereotypes, but a religious character.

>

>

 

I don't really care what it's called, as long as it doesn't need weapons to fight. If it really needs something for the equipment, then just make some sigils/runes on your arms and/or legs to pretend you have something equipped.

[Kichwas.7152]

> @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > @"Parasite.5389" said:

> > > > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > > Weapons? Why not bare-handed?

> > >

> > > new Global Elite spec: Monk

> > >

> > > (yes, it's a terrible idea)

> >

> > Guild War's Cantha was NOT based on racist stereotypes so I'm going to hope they give that a hard pass.

> >

> > In fact Guild Wars 1 was, before Eye of the North, completely lacking in ANY stereotypes and had richly detailed original cultures for all three 'base games'.

> >

> > Eye of the North then added Norn and Asura and made them both cheap parody stereotypes - with Norn even a stereotype of a real world people (they were, and still are, basically comedic drunken Vikings. Every stereotype you could thrown at a Nordic person other than being modular furniture salesmen...)

> >

> >

> >

> > That said, Monk IS a core Guild Wars class that didn't appear in GW2.

> > We had skill lines for healing prayers, smiting prayers, and protection prayers. Weapons were things like rods and staffs, and a focus in off hand with rod.

> >

> > In other words, Monk is a caster for the Healer role - not something from lazy racist ethnic stereotypes, but a religious character.

> >

> >

>

> I don't really care what it's called, as long as it doesn't need weapons to fight. If it really needs something for the equipment, then just make some sigils/runes on your arms and/or legs to pretend you have something equipped.

 

Ethnic stereotyping is still racist even without the labels.

Let's just not take Guild Wars there.

 

As a "person of color", who happens to have roots with both Asia and Africa (alongside both South America and Europe) - one of the shining things about Guild Wars, outside of the Norn, was that it did cultures without dipping into stereotypes. What drew me to Guild Wars 1 back in 2005 was the amount of respect it paid to the cultures of Ascalaon, Kryta, and Cantha - and when Nightfall came out Elona as well. It's lost a lot of that with Guild Wars 2, but managed to redeem itself a bit when Path of Fire did Elona while once again avoiding stereotypes. I'd like to see Cantha get that respect as well.

 

 

[coso.9173]

Whips would be awesome!

At least as a thief I have a pull whip or something xD

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > > @"Parasite.5389" said:

> > > > > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > > > Weapons? Why not bare-handed?

> > > >

> > > > new Global Elite spec: Monk

> > > >

> > > > (yes, it's a terrible idea)

> > >

> > > Guild War's Cantha was NOT based on racist stereotypes so I'm going to hope they give that a hard pass.

> > >

> > > In fact Guild Wars 1 was, before Eye of the North, completely lacking in ANY stereotypes and had richly detailed original cultures for all three 'base games'.

> > >

> > > Eye of the North then added Norn and Asura and made them both cheap parody stereotypes - with Norn even a stereotype of a real world people (they were, and still are, basically comedic drunken Vikings. Every stereotype you could thrown at a Nordic person other than being modular furniture salesmen...)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That said, Monk IS a core Guild Wars class that didn't appear in GW2.

> > > We had skill lines for healing prayers, smiting prayers, and protection prayers. Weapons were things like rods and staffs, and a focus in off hand with rod.

> > >

> > > In other words, Monk is a caster for the Healer role - not something from lazy racist ethnic stereotypes, but a religious character.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don't really care what it's called, as long as it doesn't need weapons to fight. If it really needs something for the equipment, then just make some sigils/runes on your arms and/or legs to pretend you have something equipped.

>

> Ethnic stereotyping is still racist even without the labels.

> Let's just not take Guild Wars there.

>

> As a "person of color", who happens to have roots with both Asia and Africa (alongside both South America and Europe) - one of the shining things about Guild Wars, outside of the Norn, was that it did cultures without dipping into stereotypes. What drew me to Guild Wars 1 back in 2005 was the amount of respect it paid to the cultures of Ascalaon, Kryta, and Cantha - and when Nightfall came out Elona as well. It's lost a lot of that with Guild Wars 2, but managed to redeem itself a bit when Path of Fire did Elona while once again avoiding stereotypes. I'd like to see Cantha get that respect as well.

>

>

 

I wonder what this has to do with getting new weapons? Nothing? Indeed. No need to derail the thread with this.

Also, I would prefer they don't recycle cantha, but i think it's too late for that. And that is enough of that.

 

[Konrad Curze.5130]

ANet wont make new weapons. zero chance. just thinking of retroactively adding a single new type weapon, let alone several, to every set in the game would be mindboggling.

 

neither previous expac had new weapons, and they got more time in the oven, had larger teams, and less backlog of sets to add it to.

 

I know dreaming is free, and people get a kick out of discussing cool whatifs, but this is pretty much as unrealistic as it gets

[xoxin.8326]

I'd like to see 2 handed axes

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> Weapons? Why not bare-handed?

 

That would be nice as a PvE-only cross-profession elite specialization: Unarmed Martial Artist.

 

While equipped, the name of the resulting specialization varies for each profession, and all professions lose the ability to equip weapons other than a new type of 'gauntlet/fist weapons'. Utility skills would not restricted, tho, even if they resemble weapons like kits and conjures.

Once this elite specialization is unlocked by a character, unarmed skills will permanently replace the empty slots in the skill bar too, even without the specialization equipped (you just won't be able to equip the gauntlet/firs weapon to give them power). This means that when picking a bundle that has just 1 skill in slot #1, the other 4 slots would no longer be empty, they would get the unarmed skills.

Each profession will have its own individual utility skills, but all professions will have the same utility skill type "Technique".

The added profession mechanic would be a "Special Move" bar that can be filled several times (extra times with a certain trait equipped). When Technique skills are used they will be stronger if there's more bars, but they deplete several bars in one go. Elite Techniques always require at least 3 bars to work, and deplete all bars when used.

While Unarmed-specialized characters can only equip 1 type of weapon, professions with weapon swap still get 2 weapon skill sets, which they can still switch with weapon swap. For those who do not want to use Techniques, F5 can be pressed to consume a bas to get short temporary boost. The boost depends on the grandmaster trait equipped: +damage , +defense and CC resistance, or speed and cooldown reduction.

Each profession will have different styles for their skills. Professions that can weapon-swap in combat get 2 styles they can swap with weapon swap, like elementalists get 4 styles. Engineers get just 1 style, but hey, they still get to bring kits.

 

* Warrior - The Wrestler : Judo and Lucha Libre. High focus on grapples. All grapples would be unblockable and a few will also be unevadible, so getting close to a wrestler would be very dangerous, specially without stun breaks to break free.

* Guardian - The Monk : Karate and Aikido. High focus on counters and reversals, sending attacks and damage back to enemies, and punishing enemy actions.

* Revenant - The Brute : Unique in that it gets 2 legends, and can't equip other legends. The legends are Courier Falken and "Kiiiiillroooooy Stoooonekiiiiin!!!!". The fighting style is basically unstyled street fighting and roughing enemies up.

* Engineer - The Vigilante : Gadget-assisted martial arts. In other words: kind of like Batman in the Arkham series. Where do they get those toys?

* Thief - The Shadow: Pressure Point Martial Arts and Unarmed Assassination techniques. Them sneaky ones keep trying to move behind you, paralyze you, then cut the flow of blood to your brain with a touch. Bad news.

* Ranger - The Warden : Combined attacks with pets. Unlike the other weapon-swap professions, the equipped skills are based on the 5 animals martial arts, and depend on the Archetypes of the 2 pets equipped: Bear (stout), Deer (supportive), Tiger (deadly), Monkey (ferocious), Crane (versatile) instead being 2 fixed set of skills.

* Elementalist - The Elemental Lord : The style changes with attunement, and they would be unashamedly inspired by the 4 main elemental styles in the Avatar series:

* Fire: Northern Shaolin.

* Water: Tai Chi

* Air: Ba Gua

* Earth: Hung Gar

* Mesmer - The Dancer: One upbeat dance style kind of like capoeira, and one gentle and fluid style like ballet. The elite skill forces enemies to dance, of course.

* Necromancer - The Plague : It will be inspired by Touch builds from GW1, slower and flowing snake-like moves like those of Duolon from The King of Fighters series, and fast piercing Mantis style moves like those of Gen from the Street Fighter series.

 

 

That would be really fun, if it was usable for more than niche stuff.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Adding new weapon types wouldn't do much for the game outside of generating new issues with balancing. I'd rather have ANet spend thier resources on something else.

 

Disagree 100%. New weapons would do a whole lot for the game. In a game like this, nothing is more important than giving players new ways to experiment, new cosmetics and animations, and new ways to play their toons. Balance is irrelevant as it's not like you ever achieve it - it's a continuous process of iteration.

 

In fact, in my mind, there's actually little that would match the bang for buck of adding new weapons and they severely dropped the ball by not adding new ones with HoT and PoF.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Konrad Curze.5130" said:

> ANet wont make new weapons. zero chance. just thinking of retroactively adding a single new type weapon, let alone several, to every set in the game would be mindboggling.

>

> neither previous expac had new weapons, and they got more time in the oven, had larger teams, and less backlog of sets to add it to.

>

> I know dreaming is free, and people get a kick out of discussing cool whatifs, but this is pretty much as unrealistic as it gets

 

No it wouldn't. It would be perfectly feasible. They wouldn't even have to add them retroactively or give them the same # of skins as older weapons to get a ton of benefit from it. Neither former xpac had them, which was a screw up and it would have been the first thing I included.

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> * Warrior - The Wrestler : Judo and Lucha Libre. High focus on grapples. All grapples would be unblockable and a few will also be unevadible, so getting close to a wrestler would be very dangerous, specially without stun breaks to break free.

 

I would say warrior would be better as an undisciplined fighter. You know: all that headbutting has run its course and now you got lots of strength but lack skill and intelligence. If you hit an enemy and nothing happens, you just gotta hit harder. (this is a joke of course, except the undisciplined fighter part)

Also, why do you say "PvE-only" and then talk about stun breaks? PvE enemies can't use stun breaks, right? Or is that more like flavour text?

 

 

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"DeanBB.4268" said:

> People say "give me polarms" but don't say how they are different than what we already have. Thus, people respond with "I'd rather anet not waste their time" typically.

 

It doesn't need to be mechanically justified - polearms are an iconic fantasy weapon type that is altogether missing in GW2 for no good reason when the game focuses heavily on horizontal progression, gameplay experimentation, and cosmetics. It was ridiculous that they weren't added for PoF. Now is the time.

[lokh.2695]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"lokh.2695" said:

> > Adding new weapon types wouldn't do much for the game outside of generating new issues with balancing. I'd rather have ANet spend thier resources on something else.

>

> Disagree 100%. New weapons would do a whole lot for the game. In a game like this, nothing is more important than giving players new ways to experiment, new cosmetics and animations, and new ways to play their toons. Balance is irrelevant as it's not like you ever achieve it - it's a continuous process of iteration.

>

> In fact, in my mind, there's actually little that would match the bang for buck of adding new weapons and they severely dropped the ball by not adding new ones with HoT and PoF.

 

In many othe games I would agree that adding new weapons might do something for the player experience. But in a game where basically every weapon can do anything I really don't see the need for new weapon TYPES. Most things that get asked for in these threads can be achieved by adding skins or animations to already existing weapons. You want a great Axe, have a few skins for the Hammer weapon type; you want a crossbow, a big one, make it a rifle or longbow skin; you'd prefer a small one, make it a pistol; you want land spears, sure, have some staff skins and so on.

As a person who has trained martial arts using weapons for over 30 years now I know prettty well that a great axe handles differently from a hammer, that a spear is not a staff and everything, but this could be solved by animations. As an example, add a few spear skins and make warriors use staffs with their new elite, then you move on and give the new warrior spec animations that fit a spear.

In GW2 a weapons type and its function are not as tightly knit as in other games, hammers and greatswords can be ranged weapons, staffs can be quarterstaffs or caster weapons. Adding new weapon types is just not worth the hassle when 80% of the issues people discuss in these threads can be solved by skins and animations. Also, there's the problem of retroactivity and that a new weapon type would most likely be used by maybe 4 out of the 9 classes unless you want to have it boring and make it available for each class.

[Anchoku.8142]

Unarmed or Monk may be too difficult to add to the game.

* There are no models used in the game for fighting by hand so new ones have to be created.

* A Monk's "weapon type" would be a glove-thing, which the game does not have any weapons for from regular old white through purple legendary.

* A glove style weapon also conflicts with armor gloves already in the game as equipment and fashion.

 

In contrast, my favorite "new" weapon, land spear, already exists in game and combat actions can be based on staff actions from various professions, especially Daredevil.

 

Of course, the easiest path for Arenanet is what they have always done; bring an existing weapon to a profession without it.

 

Next after that is to transfer a weapon between main hand and off-hand. Most single hand weapons are swung with the right hand or wriggled/waved with the left. Right-handed weapons held in the left hand may need extra work to prevent clipping due to size or look natural being swung.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > * Warrior - The Wrestler : Judo and Lucha Libre. High focus on grapples. All grapples would be unblockable and a few will also be unevadible, so getting close to a wrestler would be very dangerous, specially without stun breaks to break free.

>

> I would say warrior would be better as an undisciplined fighter. You know: all that headbutting has run its course and now you got lots of strength but lack skill and intelligence. If you hit an enemy and nothing happens, you just gotta hit harder. (this is a joke of course, except the undisciplined fighter part)

> Also, why do you say "PvE-only" and then talk about stun breaks? PvE enemies can't use stun breaks, right? Or is that more like flavour text?

 

I had to go with wrestling for the warrior, since the revenant got the "undisciplined fighter" legends, as it has to be Kilroy and Falken. I considered seeing them as 'pugilists' that do 'fisticuffs' (like M. Bison in Street Fighter or Vanessa/Heavy D in King of Fighters), but Killroy fights dirty and headbutts, making him more of a roughhouser.

 

But don't forget that 'wrestlers' in fighting games include guys like Zangief and judokas include guys like Goro Daimon. Freaking imposing giants that can shake the ground and make you tremble to the core, which goes well with warrior.

[Blocki.4931]

If they were to ever do it, this would be the time.

[Ototo.3214]

Someone already beat me to it but man have I wanted like...gauntlets. Would be cool to have punching weapons for some classes, or even turn it on its head and have like...elementalists that cast with just their hands or something, kinda like some flame legion casters do.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> New weapons might have backwards compatibility issues with the not-expansion. Lots of work for little gain. I'm going to bet we don't get new weapons, though I think it would be great to have some more.

 

No, it's actually relatively little work for a ton of gain if they don't try to retrofit them everywhere in the game with dozens upon dozens of skins starting out, which wouldn't be needed and I highly doubt they would try to do.

 

IMO this is one of the best examples of the game's mismanagement over the last 8 years as new weapons should have been added all the way back to HoT.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > New weapons might have backwards compatibility issues with the not-expansion. Lots of work for little gain. I'm going to bet we don't get new weapons, though I think it would be great to have some more.

>

> No, it's actually relatively little work for a ton of gain if they don't try to retrofit them everywhere in the game with dozens upon dozens of skins starting out, which wouldn't be needed and I highly doubt they would try to do.

 

Right ... so why would anyone get excited about new weapons if they didn't have a whole load of skins for those weapons? What's the difference between giving a class an existing weapon they don't have vs. a completely new weapon? The answer is none ... except for the fact that one weapon has a TON of skins and game support and the other doesn't. There is actually LESS gain to create whole new weapons that have relatively few skins than giving an existing weapon that has many skins because it's just another weapon they need to create skins for everytime they make a weapon skin series.

 

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > > * Warrior - The Wrestler : Judo and Lucha Libre. High focus on grapples. All grapples would be unblockable and a few will also be unevadible, so getting close to a wrestler would be very dangerous, specially without stun breaks to break free.

> >

> > I would say warrior would be better as an undisciplined fighter. You know: all that headbutting has run its course and now you got lots of strength but lack skill and intelligence. If you hit an enemy and nothing happens, you just gotta hit harder. (this is a joke of course, except the undisciplined fighter part)

> > Also, why do you say "PvE-only" and then talk about stun breaks? PvE enemies can't use stun breaks, right? Or is that more like flavour text?

>

> I had to go with wrestling for the warrior, since the revenant got the "undisciplined fighter" legends, as it has to be Kilroy and Falken. I considered seeing them as 'pugilists' that do 'fisticuffs' (like M. Bison in Street Fighter or Vanessa/Heavy D in King of Fighters), but Killroy fights dirty and headbutts, making him more of a roughhouser.

>

> But don't forget that 'wrestlers' in fighting games include guys like Zangief and judokas include guys like Goro Daimon. Freaking imposing giants that can shake the ground and make you tremble to the core, which goes well with warrior.

 

I was just thinking on how the warrior is mostly about adrenaline and rage, so "undisciplined" seems to be a perfect fit. The grappling could be some utility skills, not the main focus of course.

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > New weapons might have backwards compatibility issues with the not-expansion. Lots of work for little gain. I'm going to bet we don't get new weapons, though I think it would be great to have some more.

> >

> > No, it's actually relatively little work for a ton of gain if they don't try to retrofit them everywhere in the game with dozens upon dozens of skins starting out, which wouldn't be needed and I highly doubt they would try to do.

>

> Right ... so why would anyone get excited about new weapons if they didn't have a whole load of skins for those weapons? What's the difference between giving a class an existing weapon they don't have vs. a completely new weapon? The answer is none ... except for the fact that one weapon has a TON of skins and game support and the other doesn't. There is actually LESS gain to create whole new weapons that have relatively few skins than giving an existing weapon that has many skins because it's just another weapon they need to create skins for everytime they make a weapon skin series.

>

 

Yes, they will, because they will come with new animations, new skills, and a handful of skins that will be built upon with time. The difference is that a.) the're running short of options on the original weapons, and b.) new weapons bring entirely new flavor to the game to a greater extent than giving existing weapons to new classes can.

[Fueki.4753]

Caesti and Spears (both one-handed and two-handed) are what I'd want most.

Crossbows could be nice, too.

 

They could also add throwing weapons as a new category.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > New weapons might have backwards compatibility issues with the not-expansion. Lots of work for little gain. I'm going to bet we don't get new weapons, though I think it would be great to have some more.

> > >

> > > No, it's actually relatively little work for a ton of gain if they don't try to retrofit them everywhere in the game with dozens upon dozens of skins starting out, which wouldn't be needed and I highly doubt they would try to do.

> >

> > Right ... so why would anyone get excited about new weapons if they didn't have a whole load of skins for those weapons? What's the difference between giving a class an existing weapon they don't have vs. a completely new weapon? The answer is none ... except for the fact that one weapon has a TON of skins and game support and the other doesn't. There is actually LESS gain to create whole new weapons that have relatively few skins than giving an existing weapon that has many skins because it's just another weapon they need to create skins for everytime they make a weapon skin series.

> >

>

> Yes, they will, because they will come with new animations, new skills, and a handful of skins that will be built upon with time.

 

A class that gets existing weapons can or does get all those things as well ... None of those things are exclusive to a completely new weapon. Any existing weapon can be given the EXACT same parameters that any new weapon would be given ... even if the pairings would be 'strange' .. .like Rev hammer for instance.

 

So again ... the gain of a completely new weapon vs. existing weapons is what and for who would it be a gain for?

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind new weapons ... but let's not pretend a new weapon doesn't have drawbacks for being implemented and that there is some massive value-add for Anet and players if they were to intro new weapons. Again ... the whole point of getting excited about new weapons has NOTHING to do with it's skills, what it's called or what animations it has because those things can be given to ANY existing weapon as well ... it's the **skins** that are the value to players and a completely new weapon would have almost no new skins when released.

 

 

[DeanBB.4268]

Excluding aquatic weapons, each profession has at least 5 weapons that they cannot use. Five being for Guardian and Warrior, more for the rest. I'd say there is still much room for Anet to develop new elite specs within the weapon sets currently available.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"Konrad Curze.5130" said:

> > ANet wont make new weapons. zero chance. just thinking of retroactively adding a single new type weapon, let alone several, to every set in the game would be mindboggling.

> >

> > neither previous expac had new weapons, and they got more time in the oven, had larger teams, and less backlog of sets to add it to.

> >

> > I know dreaming is free, and people get a kick out of discussing cool whatifs, but this is pretty much as unrealistic as it gets

>

> No it wouldn't. It would be perfectly feasible. They wouldn't even have to add them retroactively or give them the same # of skins as older weapons to get a ton of benefit from it. Neither former xpac had them, which was a screw up and it would have been the first thing I included.

 

Just because your ok with halfassing an entire system of the game and having giant gaps in the weapon selection doesnt mean the devs are ok with that too. They probably have standards and professionality, and arent happy with doing a piss poor job deliberately, unlike you.

 

Look at the previous expacs. No new weapons. That's exactly what we'll get in the next one. You better start accepting that fact....or dont, keep dreaming and set yourself up for a bigger disappointment, I dont care, you do you