On Condi Guardian/DH/Firebrand in PvP

[AnodicShadow.3647]

Does anyone else get super frustrated when fighting these builds? It feels like, no matter what I do, I always get burn on me somehow. If you block, their burns go through aegis because torch 4 is unblockable, if you try to fight them from range, they just port to you or immobilize you with scepter 3 and stack burns with the spirit sword. If you fight them in melee, you just get a million burns on you because of pulsing aoes. What can I honestly do to reliably beat these builds?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Burn gaurd is a super easy play style. Has little to no risk but great rewards. Aoe skills has to go in gw2 for anyone to have a bright fun future imo.

[Dantheman.3589]

I don’t think condi core or dh are that good. Firebrand is passable for sure and symbol core is probably the eziest and best side noder for ranked.

[Zephoid.4263]

FB and DH don't have a viable burn build. Both gain little to nothing from the elite spec and you NEED 3 trait lines to make burn guard viable. Drop any of the 3 and you drop all of your durability from meditations or drop a lot of your burn damage.

 

Core guard burn builds are still really squishy. Most are running 2 stun breaks and 1 invuln along with the lowest HP of any non-zerker build. They also lack viable range options since scepter is absolutely pathetic. Core guard also lacks a good source of swiftness, so they often have to slot lynx runes. Still, that makes them very easy to kite.

 

Its also important to understand how burn guard apply burning. You have torch 4 and torch 4 passive, but beyond that every source of burning is from f1. If you are getting 6 stacks of burning, you have been hit 12-18 times. The damage from most guard abilities is rather small, but symbol stacking racks up the ticks fast. However you did get hit by all of those abilities. On any other class, those abilities would have probably downed you.

 

How to beat them? Kiting is easy. Ranger, holo, and rev all run all over burn guards. Anything that gets superspeed can generate space after one of the guard's blinks and then kite the guard into oblivion. However, most of the top teir builds can just face tank the guard's power damage, burst hard, and cleanse after 1-2 ticks as the guard is forced to invuln. Heralds literally full heal every 30s because of IL and burns durations are rarely much longer than its 3s.

In 2v2 or higher situations, core guards are fodder. CC chains quickly exhaust the 2 stun breaks and then you have a low hp build with few defensive passives.

[Tayga.3192]

There was a guy who made 8 accounts legendary rank with trapper burn DH, lol

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> There was a guy who made 8 accounts legendary rank with trapper burn DH, lol

 

Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

 

Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

 

The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

[Math.5123]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

>

> Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

>

> The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

 

Can confirm. I'm currently hovering around top 10 on NA with burn dh.

[AnodicShadow.3647]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

> >

> > Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

> >

> > The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

>

> Can confirm. I'm currently hovering around top 10 on NA with burn dh.

 

Oh hey, I didn't know you came back to NA.

[otto.5684]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> FB and DH don't have a viable burn build. Both gain little to nothing from the elite spec and you NEED 3 trait lines to make burn guard viable. Drop any of the 3 and you drop all of your durability from meditations or drop a lot of your burn damage.

>

> Core guard burn builds are still really squishy. Most are running 2 stun breaks and 1 invuln along with the lowest HP of any non-zerker build. They also lack viable range options since scepter is absolutely pathetic. Core guard also lacks a good source of swiftness, so they often have to slot lynx runes. Still, that makes them very easy to kite.

>

> Its also important to understand how burn guard apply burning. You have torch 4 and torch 4 passive, but beyond that every source of burning is from f1. If you are getting 6 stacks of burning, you have been hit 12-18 times. The damage from most guard abilities is rather small, but symbol stacking racks up the ticks fast. However you did get hit by all of those abilities. On any other class, those abilities would have probably downed you.

>

> How to beat them? Kiting is easy. Ranger, holo, and rev all run all over burn guards. Anything that gets superspeed can generate space after one of the guard's blinks and then kite the guard into oblivion. However, most of the top teir builds can just face tank the guard's power damage, burst hard, and cleanse after 1-2 ticks as the guard is forced to invuln. Heralds literally full heal every 30s because of IL and burns durations are rarely much longer than its 3s.

> In 2v2 or higher situations, core guards are fodder. CC chains quickly exhaust the 2 stun breaks and then you have a low hp build with few defensive passives.

 

This is 100% accurate, but there is a reason why these threads.. exist. You are talking 1,600+. Ya... burn guardian is bad. But think 1400- for a sec. If you know what you are doing with burn core guardian, you can easily bury enemies in burns, way faster than FB or DH. I play sage core burn guardian, sometimes. It is not as easy to kill as you think. It is significantly resistant to condi damage and has very high uptime on protection. It is an immobile blah, but if you go in mindlessly tunneling (as majority of players do), you would lose spectacularly, in 10 burns fashion. Then come to the forums complain about how OP it is. It is also not as bad solo as you think. It is worse though the more players there is, cuz you can easily get chain CCed with no counter play.

 

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

> >

> > Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

> >

> > The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

>

> Can confirm. I'm currently hovering around top 10 on NA with burn dh.

 

Nice. Do you happen to have a build i could look at? I've tried to make DH work with condi trapper, but power was always so much more reliable due to lack of condi traps. DH does have nice escapes with trapper, but losing F1 active is rough.

[Math.5123]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > > Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

> > >

> > > Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

> > >

> > > The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

> >

> > Can confirm. I'm currently hovering around top 10 on NA with burn dh.

>

> Nice. Do you happen to have a build i could look at? I've tried to make DH work with condi trapper, but power was always so much more reliable due to lack of condi traps. DH does have nice escapes with trapper, but losing F1 active is rough.

 

I'll send you a link in game. Or hit me up on the pvp discord if you're in that.

[aelska.4609]

Fun thing about burn guard is that the only few builds it counters are quite cancerous by themselves:

- Stone earth tempest

- rangers (any kind)

- deadeyes

- renegade

- rezbots (any kind)

 

While it is inefficient vs nearly all the other builds.

You are fighting a build that has no stability, very limited defenses and the lowest mobility in game. It can surprise you once, but it's about all.

I'm not saying it doesn't deserve nerfs. Just saying that amongst all the noob-friendly mechanics we have out there, this one might be the most counterable.

[Zawn.9647]

the build is completely ridiculous

it can burst you with burning in 4 seconds... 2 attacks and you're ticking for 2-3k burning sounds really fun, what an effort it takes to press 2 buttons and stack a damage that will guy anyone in 5-8 seconds

 

if you're 1x1ing them and paying 100% attention only to them, its kinda fine since you can dodge, cleanse, heal (although they will still stack burning even if you dodge+cleanse most of it) - when you're in a middle of a fight, its braindead

[Khalisto.5780]

Dunno, with 2 condi cleanse i take like 0 dmg and kill them while their burst is on cd

[TrOtskY.5927]

The best bet is to kite out their symbols and keep moving. Funny enough, mobility is key. I'm playing carrion condi core right now scepter focus sword torch and it is really quite obnoxiously strong, tbh, but players with good kiting are a pain to lock down.

 

Honestly there's not many classes I feel weak against right now. I used to run sword shield and struggle against good daredevils and even some mesmers and would struggle to apply kill pressure on good tank ranger and holos but after switching to torch I don't feel that way anymore, it really feels like there's no really bad matchups

[TrOtskY.5927]

> @"TrOtskY.5927" said:

> The best bet is to kite out their symbols and keep moving. Funny enough, mobility is key. I'm playing carrion condi core right now scepter focus sword torch and it is really quite obnoxiously strong, tbh, but players with good kiting are a pain to lock down.

>

> Honestly there's not many classes I feel weak against right now. I used to run sword shield and struggle against good daredevils and even some mesmers and would struggle to apply kill pressure on good tank ranger and holos but after switching to torch I don't feel that way anymore, it really feels like there's no really bad matchups

*Edit double post mb

 

[Khalisto.5780]

I feel this is the weakest build on core guard now

 

The symbols one is better

 

The greatsword one is better

 

I like this build when i need more team fight potential and my team has a higher priority target than me, like a tempest or any necro so i can freecast to win

[TrOtskY.5927]

I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

 

 

[haenz.9578]

Can someone give me a link to the burn guard build pls with torch?

I have tried Zeal / Virtues / Radiance with Sw/F and Sc/To.

Very very big damage but I die so fast.

 

Is this not the right build?

 

TY for help!!!

 

 

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > Wana back up that claim? I find it extremely highly unlikely.

> >

> > Sure, apparently it was just 5 accounts.

> >

> > The guy who did it is called Tallbarr if I recall correctly. I think it was the season before the last 2v2s, but not 100% sure.

>

> Can confirm. I'm currently hovering around top 10 on NA with burn dh.

 

Doesn’t mean a lot imo. We all know guardian is just over all great in many areas as far as ranked pug stomps. Doesn’t mean u can bring it against good players

[ollbirtan.2915]

> @"TrOtskY.5927" said:

> I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

>

>

 

I haven't seen anyone above g2 run SOJ. It's only semi viable in WvW zergs, not in sPvP. It's clunky, has an awkward aftercast, and it's suuuuuuper easy to avoid/....by paying minimal attention to your surroundings. If I were to take a spirit weapon, I'd rather take the Shield of the Avenger - less 'potential' damage, but super easy to land, and as a bonus it applies weakness.

_P.S. After all the complains on the forums about so called "OP" res skills/traits. I'm surprised to see calls to, apparently, 'the best res punisher'._

[TrOtskY.5927]

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > @"TrOtskY.5927" said:

> > I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

> >

> >

>

> I haven't seen anyone above g2 run SOJ. It's only semi viable in WvW zergs, not in sPvP. It's clunky, has an awkward aftercast, and it's suuuuuuper easy to avoid/....by paying minimal attention to your surroundings. If I were to take a spirit weapon, I'd rather take the Shield of the Avenger - less 'potential' damage, but super easy to land, and as a bonus it applies weakness.

> _P.S. After all the complains on the forums about so called "OP" res skills/traits. I'm surprised to see calls to, apparently, 'the best res punisher'._

 

I'm using it in plat to great success. It's a hard skill to use, however you can land soj on anyone that does not cleanse scepter 3, you can force decap extremely easily with it, you cleave like a madman with it. Guardian utility skills suck anyway and with a damage build you may as well take more damage.

 

These are just my experiences from playing with it in ranked, it has been extremely successful so far, and the build is blatantly carrying me above my skill level. I guess this is what necro feels like.

 

 

 

 

[haenz.9578]

> @"haenz.9578" said:

> Can someone give me a link to the burn guard build pls with torch?

> I have tried Zeal / Virtues / Radiance with Sw/F and Sc/To.

> Very very big damage but I die so fast.

>

> Is this not the right build?

>

> TY for help!!!

>

>

 

No one :(

[ollbirtan.2915]

> @"TrOtskY.5927" said:

> > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > @"TrOtskY.5927" said:

> > > I am surprised nobody is mentioning sword of justice in this thread. With 3 hit passive trait and eternal armoury) any multi hit onto a point with the ability applies not only the burning per sword swing to everyone affected, it also applies the passive multiple times , for example hitting downed player 4 times and resser twice results in two extra passive procs in aoe which is just the tip of the iceberg. Hitting multiple players with multiple hits of the sword results in just insane aoe burning damage. It might be the strongest res punisher in the game

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I haven't seen anyone above g2 run SOJ. It's only semi viable in WvW zergs, not in sPvP. It's clunky, has an awkward aftercast, and it's suuuuuuper easy to avoid/....by paying minimal attention to your surroundings. If I were to take a spirit weapon, I'd rather take the Shield of the Avenger - less 'potential' damage, but super easy to land, and as a bonus it applies weakness.

> > _P.S. After all the complains on the forums about so called "OP" res skills/traits. I'm surprised to see calls to, apparently, 'the best res punisher'._

>

> I'm using it in plat to great success. It's a hard skill to use, however you can land soj on anyone that does not cleanse scepter 3, you can force decap extremely easily with it, you cleave like a madman with it. Guardian utility skills suck anyway and with a damage build you may as well take more damage.

>

> These are just my experiences from playing with it in ranked, it has been extremely successful so far, and the build is blatantly carrying me above my skill level. I guess this is what necro feels like.

>

>

>

>

 

I agree that under certain conditions SOJ can literally wipe the enemy team...but from my experience, even if you successfully wipe / decap the node with SOJ, a somewhat organised team would then regroup and you will become the first target for hard focus. Given the fact that you must pretty much sacrifice your defence utilities / traits to achieve high damage with SOJ, you have very little chance of survival under the enemy team's hard focus.

P.S. This is ofcourse, my personal experience with SOJ.