Infusion.7149 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > So you want to alienate every single guild with 21+ active players. What nice and forward thinking. > > I could see stopping the stack of players on each other, but your idea is way over the top. > > 20 was just a suggestions, but even if it weren't nothing stops you from creating more than 1 squad. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > new max squad size is 20 > > 25+ is orange swords, so basically nobody can orange on their own then? > > There is no universal law for this to require 25+ people, but again just a suggestion. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > Going close to a member of a different squad reduces movement by 80%, debuff called "mist repulsion" (distance has to be tested) > > So they're going to spend dev hours on this why? > > Yes, obviously every change, every update, even the slightiest adjustment causes dev time. Surprise. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > By joining a squad armor is dyed to commander's tag color > > Same thing as everyone using the same guild tag, no? So more wasted dev hours... > > No it's not the same, and if you cannot figure out why this is needed, I suppose it's just a waste of time explaining it. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > Upon entering WvW you get assigned to the "roamer population", colored white > > Why? > > See answer above. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > Roaming / playing outside of a squad will downscale your level to 50 to ensure roamer blobs don't work against squads > > Everyone is upscaled to 80 right now, doing this would accomplish nothing. If you want to equalize stats scale everyone to exotic or ascended (pick one) and then stop the use of karka potions (+150 toughness). > > I literally wrote down why this is mandatory. > Besides roamers simply would be upscaled to 50 and as squad members to 80, nothing special here. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > It seems you're against people sniping you on your way back to a fight, that just means you need better map awareness and utilization of your equipment/build templates. > > No, i'm not against that, but I admit that without additional mechanics sniping squad members wouldn't really work anymore. > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > If necessary reduce HP of structures to fit new party sizes overall dmg output. > > Other than gates there is no point to this suggestion , there is only mortars/cannons/oil that are structures. Reducing their health would be more beneficial to large groups (which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what you're aiming for) because unlike keep lords their health doesn't scale. > > Gates and walls are what I had in mind. Placeable structure might require a look at too, but that's secondary. Have you ever run a squad that isn't in PVE? Being able to put markers down to mark where to go is pretty essential. Making more than one squad basically means you can't coordinate that movement as granular and you end up using map cues such as trees , flags, or ramps (i.e. chokepoints). At the scale of 20 people unless your guild is a roaming guild or mainly PVP troll/"gank" guild that only roams and isn't a WVW guild your core group is basically the guild. That means the additional people you get outside of your guild are just additions, they aren't the core of your group. So no, making everyone a color isn't going to change that. There's no existing mechanic that works like you suggested so not only is there dev hours to implement such a suggestion but also massive amounts of QA testing involved. On top of that due to the additional conditional effect flags you're placing _on every character on the map_ you just introduced more variables into the compute engine which lowers server performance even further. If you had been paying attention at all this year they reduced the map population cap while simultaneously lowering necro shade caps. Also level 50 is an incredibly arbitrary level to scale to, you don't even have access to superior runes at 50. That shows everyone how much thought you put into this kneejerk thread. Level 60 reward note: > **Storm castles and conquer territories** in World versus World! Enter the Mists through Eternal Battlegrounds asura gates in major cities, or by clicking the castle icon in the top left corner of your screen. Press to see your WvW progress. Most WvW players that have played a long time think that the wall/gate changes that equalized health between T1-T3 yet had equal number of yaks to _auto upgrade_ keeps and towers were bad for the game mode. I know some commanders even quit because of that plus the nerf to siege + addition of shield gens. Your suggestion is to double down on that mistake and lower health of gates/walls even further, making it essentially a ktrain map for an organized group. You're of the fight guild mentality that wants to get rid of siege , walls and gates then level the entire map into a zerg fest yet you want all zergs to be lvl 50 downscaled. Right. _Makes so much sense._ Also, there's a lot of people that don't play WVW because they don't want their character to die as if their character dies ingame they need to restart from level 1 or something. It has nothing to do with WVW as a game mode. These are the people you see idling near the veteran creature spawn and then running away at the sight of one enemy even if there's 10 teammates next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyan.1593 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > So you want to alienate every single guild with 21+ active players. What nice and forward thinking. > > > I could see stopping the stack of players on each other, but your idea is way over the top. > > > > 20 was just a suggestions, but even if it weren't nothing stops you from creating more than 1 squad. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > new max squad size is 20 > > > 25+ is orange swords, so basically nobody can orange on their own then? > > > > There is no universal law for this to require 25+ people, but again just a suggestion. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > Going close to a member of a different squad reduces movement by 80%, debuff called "mist repulsion" (distance has to be tested) > > > So they're going to spend dev hours on this why? > > > > Yes, obviously every change, every update, even the slightiest adjustment causes dev time. Surprise. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > By joining a squad armor is dyed to commander's tag color > > > Same thing as everyone using the same guild tag, no? So more wasted dev hours... > > > > No it's not the same, and if you cannot figure out why this is needed, I suppose it's just a waste of time explaining it. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > Upon entering WvW you get assigned to the "roamer population", colored white > > > Why? > > > > See answer above. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > Roaming / playing outside of a squad will downscale your level to 50 to ensure roamer blobs don't work against squads > > > Everyone is upscaled to 80 right now, doing this would accomplish nothing. If you want to equalize stats scale everyone to exotic or ascended (pick one) and then stop the use of karka potions (+150 toughness). > > > > I literally wrote down why this is mandatory. > > Besides roamers simply would be upscaled to 50 and as squad members to 80, nothing special here. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > It seems you're against people sniping you on your way back to a fight, that just means you need better map awareness and utilization of your equipment/build templates. > > > > No, i'm not against that, but I admit that without additional mechanics sniping squad members wouldn't really work anymore. > > > > > @"Infusion.7149" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > If necessary reduce HP of structures to fit new party sizes overall dmg output. > > > Other than gates there is no point to this suggestion , there is only mortars/cannons/oil that are structures. Reducing their health would be more beneficial to large groups (which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what you're aiming for) because unlike keep lords their health doesn't scale. > > > > Gates and walls are what I had in mind. Placeable structure might require a look at too, but that's secondary. > > Have you ever run a squad that isn't in PVE? Being able to put markers down to mark where to go is pretty essential. Making more than one squad basically means you can't coordinate that movement as granular and you end up using map cues such as trees , flags, or ramps (i.e. chokepoints). > > At the scale of 20 people unless your guild is a roaming guild or mainly PVP troll/"gank" guild that only roams and isn't a WVW guild your core group is basically the guild. That means the additional people you get outside of your guild are just additions, they aren't the core of your group. So no, making everyone a color isn't going to change that. > > There's no existing mechanic that works like you suggested so not only is there dev hours to implement such a suggestion but also massive amounts of QA testing involved. On top of that due to the additional conditional effect flags you're placing _on every character on the map_ you just introduced more variables into the compute engine which lowers server performance even further. If you had been paying attention at all this year they reduced the map population cap while simultaneously lowering necro shade caps. > > Also level 50 is an incredibly arbitrary level to scale to, you don't even have access to superior runes at 50. That shows everyone how much thought you put into this kneejerk thread. > > Most WvW players that have played a long time think that the wall/gate changes that equalized health between T1-T3 yet had equal number of yaks to _auto upgrade_ keeps and towers were bad for the game mode. I know some commanders even quit because of that plus the nerf to siege + addition of shield gens. Your suggestion is to double down on that mistake and lower health of gates/walls even further, making it essentially a ktrain map for an organized group. > > You're of the fight guild mentality that wants to get rid of siege , walls and gates then level the entire map into a zerg fest yet you want all zergs to be lvl 50 downscaled. Right. _Makes so much sense._ > > Also, there's a lot of people that don't play WVW because they don't want their character to die as if their character dies ingame they need to restart from level 1 or something. It has nothing to do with WVW as a game mode. These are the people you see idling near the veteran creature spawn and then running away at the sight of one enemy even if there's 10 teammates next to them. Tbh while you mocked me before for supposedly only having a week of playtime in wvw which isn't true all i can gather from your responses so far is that you don't understand how the game actually works. Downscaling for example doesnt mean you cannot use this or that rune. These can simply be downscaled too. I also explained already that most of this is just a suggestion, so there is no point in being picky. And again dev time is no argument. It's that simple. This mode needs serious investigation and dev time will be requiered no matter what. If alliances for example really are in developement that means its going on since almost forever proving that I am right about this - and if not, well then the devs have either lied to wvw players or simply gave up on their way of implementing it. On top of that you're assuming too much, adding stuff i haven't said or straight up make up new problems that can always be worked around if there is a real intent to actually do something about the horrible state of this mode. What you bring into this discussion reeks of denial and fear of change honestly. You can fight me all day long, whether my suggestion is really that bad or not (at this time all i have heard are biased answers or weak mocking phrases) eventually this mode has to change fundamentaly even if the wvw vets like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > Now we have more smaller battles around the map and the game mode is less AOE spamming but more individual skill. The current 20v20 GvG meta you're trying to enforce on all combat also includes quite a bit of "AOE spamming," though. > Roamers can do their thing or - if refusing to join a squad - are useless. Any roamer who understands game mechanics will immediately join a fake tag and then go around deleting level-50 randos (until they get bored). > Overall this will create a more dynamic battlefield, give more space to strategic thinking and coordination among the commanders. There is already a shortage of drivers on most servers, most of the time. > Players will also be more spread out on the map, using up all the empty and bare landscape we have right now. You're trying to enforce multi-prong play through vicious penalties but the thing with multi-prong is it often just turns into a bunch of PvDoor PPT ninja-capping. That may be "strategic" but it's incredibly dull. > The vast majority of people that don't enjoy WvW in the first place all complain about the same thing: That it's dull. They go in only to farm Gift of Battle. > One might say that those people don't belong in WvW then, but I would argue against that, especially since this mode is lacking popularity. Your suggestions just turn the "Gift of Battle" people into 10x more dead weight than they are now: you don't want them in squad because they're taking up one of your valuable slots, you don't want them in another squad because they're spreading a nasty debuff to your squad whenever they get close, you don't want them running around the map ungrouped because they've got newb stats and are gonna get farmed even going 5-on-1 against a sensible player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"RedCobra.7693" said: > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > @"RedCobra.7693" said: > > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > > > @"RedCobra.7693" said: > > > > > This feels incredibly biased, im guessing you play in a squad of 20 within your guild right? just a hunch > > > > > > > > No i don't. Why biased, I don't understand. > > > > > > > > People complain about how WvW is not good and is abandoned by the devs. > > > > Time to give them suggestions. If mine is kitten then be it. I did my part. > > > > > > WvW has always been a loved gamemode by the players but diminished due to late development. GvG support, no rewards rewards, having to play other game modes to get gear... > > > the latest solution which could work is the alliance system however we've been waiting much too long for this as usual. the good thing about roaming is you can easily switch from taking camps to quickly joining a zerg for a keep and then back to roaming. theres already issues with the squad limit cap in the upper servers of wvw and makes people feel left out. you want less of that not more. zergs become an issue when matchups are not balanced once again we wait for alliances to "Hopefully" resolve this. > > > > Yes I want less Zergs because zergs are mindless skill spamming - except if youre the commander maybe. > > You can't tell me you actually have a clue what youre focusing on while navigating through 30 red aoe circles and unload dmg into a clump of enemy players. > > You are already not thinking too much while running after a tag wherever it goes. If the com stops in front of a door you unpack your rams and whatnot and hope the enemy zerg won't fall into your back. It's objectively not interesting. > > > > No offense, but I have to disagree: It's not a gamemode loved by the players, only the WvW players themselfs (supposedly) that at the same time are asking for more updates. > > You think a bunch new skins and an alliance system will repopulate this mode? I guarantee that's not gonna happen. This mode lacks depth in gameplay, and unless it becomes more entertaining and engaging, it's continuously going to suffer and fade away. > > its not a gamemode loved by the players only the wvw players? bit of an oxymoron, no one love cars only car lovers love cars. > > what I meant is that it was a gamemode loved by players as in there were devotees, not so much anymore. its a gamemode to have massive battles, you want smart pvp then conquest is for you. wvw is more about when to push and when to retreat. conquest and wvw are 2 different things u see i like "smart" pvp but i dont like conquest because i dont give a rats ass about capping nodes. plus conquest is predictable WvW isnt totally my thing also it would be even cooler if whole tyria would turn into a massive gank festival then i get a hard e-penis i like the fact that people gank me, cus i cant predict it i have to act at that moment i like the surprise effect i find it even more funny if i was grinding mobs for something and people came to gank me. in conquest u can read alot from the map it self, plus most of the time u know exactly which skills enemy has used and what he has left untill ucan blow off ur burst. WvW is whole different thing when bunch of gankers/roamers bang into each other. wvw needs nothing tbh maybe some rewinds i dont like the 1 up 1 down system i dont like the gliding i dont like the warclaw i dont like red border <-- like the new OS afk it up there. but things i dont like is something some1 else does enjoy we just have to suck it up and either quit or go with the flow no game will be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyan.1593 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"ASP.8093" said: > Your suggestions just turn the "Gift of Battle" people into 10x more dead weight than they are now There will be less of them if this mode improves obviously. But sure, if this whole idea is whack, it won't. > @"ASP.8093" said: > you don't want them in squad because they're taking up one of your valuable slots True. This actually might be a problem. However they can open their own squad. > @"ASP.8093" said: > you don't want them in another squad because they're spreading a nasty debuff to your squad whenever they get close Hence why they get colored according to tag so they can better see. But i admit this probably won't help much. They will either quickly learn not to do that or there needs to be additional or a different mechanic to prevent zergs. There is also the danger of trolls or people switching servers and sabotaging. As for roamers getting close my idea was that the debuff only applies to the roamer, since he's the one trying to clump up on a squad / creating a zerg. > @"ASP.8093" said: > you don't want them running around the map ungrouped because they've got newb stats and are gonna get farmed even going 5-on-1 against a sensible player. roamers among roamers can still fight on an even level. They can also scout. Right now lone roamers or very small groups of roamers are easy prey already for zergs, so in that regard i don't see a real problem with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 20 players? Lets not do it, just do GW2 Factions, 15v15, make it a PvP mode like it was. WvW sucks in current state, ESO does it better. GW2 needs more castley vibe to it. LIke make an outer wall around its side of the borderland, tower and keep is inside it. More fighting inside buildings. How about after tearing down a keep/tower wall, and running up the stairs to kill lord, simple and done. You gotta capture 2 sets of flags like in ESO. This makes it so people can actually defend wimpy objectives. Right now, people rush in, lord dies in 10 seconds. Rush out. No time to even defend. Make it take about a minute. So people can defend. More fighting inside. Put up some ceilings too. Theres no tower/keep vibe because no ceilings. Only vibe is at SMC, inside of it. Fighting inside SMC doesn't happen too often. ESO does it better, change my mind. Aint no commanders in ESO, organized groups if you want group. More 1v1 even in 60v60 fight, you'll be 1v1 just fine. But snowball effect happens fast to those who win their 1v1 quickly. GW2, 60v60, stay in zerg or you die. No such thing as 1v1 in 60v60 fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalary.3561 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 No, simply leaving the game mode to current state will be a million times better than everything you've suggested here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 About all this will do is to make squads mandatory, since there's no reason my guild couldn't make a 10 man squad, then proceed to cloud and snipe the (now much weaker) zerg until they die. This is better for people how exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazzarr.1349 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said: > > As a vet in wvw I feel the OPs suggestion is so far from acceptable I can’t even comment on individual parts of it. On the other hand, if ANet ever wanted to put the final nail in the coffin for wvw this would definitely be the way to do it. > > Of course as a vet you're against this. Because you like the way WvW is designed generally, you wouldn't be a vet otherwise. Then again the only people who like WvW as it is right now are these kind of people. Everyone else doesn't even talk about WvW. This mode basically is already dead, and only continues to exist for the ones dedicated to its weak design. Ironically the only people complaining about WvW are exactly the same, and they will continue to complain into a void. And why? Because in its current state WvW isn't popular, and that for good reason. I actually believe that wvw needs revamping. But these suggestions are definitely not the way to do it. No I don’t have the answers, but I do know that these aren’t them. I play these days simply to run with friends.. not because I enjoy the mode because it really isn’t great. But these kinds of changes would stop my play completely since they penalize the roamers and small groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 So you claim to want less zergs, yet you penalize roamers with delevels? What next ya want to increase build diversity so you want to add an amulet system for stats? xD Ive done it all in WvW from leading zergs (both pug and coordinated), done cavalry, havok and small scale/solo roam. While I respect your opinion, your suggestions are what should not be done imo. Class balancing is #1, Look at whats excelling too much (whether it being zerging or roaming) and start there. THEN tackle population. We dont need to neuter anyone because they choose to roam other than zerg, thats an absurd suggestion. What next...female players get no drops? Wearing the color blue means you are invisible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Isnt as easy as you think.. wvw is hard to maintain as it has too many wild variables Anet probably should introduce better reward system for guild raids if we want improvements in wvw. This is so to encourage ppl to play in guild.. Wvw contain social element that brings ppl together in wvw. When we have ppl playing together we have a game. Its all started with good reward system. Dev needs to think outside the box.. what are elements put ppl off wvw game and how to create a mecanism to avoid that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyan.1593 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Talindra.4958" said: > Isnt as easy as you think.. Really? What I get from this thread is that people are in defence of roamers because that's where the most obvious downside to my suggestions sticks out, yet the vast majority of players are zerging if there is a commander. I thought the whole point of roaming is not to cluster up into a zerg and have players spread out, duelling other roamers, scouting and so on. So why would a squad of 20 with much higher lvl keep sniping lone low lvl players that do no drop loot as good as lvl80 players that on top give more XP? Why would they tediously hunt down players in a guerillia mode instead of doing actual objectives that offer way better rewards and give them faster and more participation? I don't understand what people are thinking claiming that they simply would squad up and hunt down roamers - a task by far inferior to what they actually could achieve by playing the actual objectives. I'd argue that squads hunting roamers in this scenario would offer almost nothing besides crippling your world. Don't forget that player count is limited, so creating a squad not playing seriously would result in zero rewards. You could even go so far as to prevent lvl80 getting anything from killing roamers. Now roamers are too weak fighting squads while at the same time squads are basically forced to play the actual mode. You now have 2 different groups of players that each have to do their job. Roamers fight roamers on a smaller tactical adventage while squads fight squads and take forts in order to secure strategic locations. Seems to me that people are faster to judge on things they don't like to hear or see in the first place instead of thinking how they would affect the mentality and dynamics of gameplay. But this is a game forums and i didn't expect much agreement. Yet I still believe that zergs are the biggest downside to WvW. They're basically the result of bad design and low effort in finding the sweet spot for big and spread out battlefields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyan.1593 Posted September 22, 2020 Author Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > So you claim to want less zergs, yet you penalize roamers with delevels? What next ya want to increase build diversity so you want to add an amulet system for stats? xD And there actually would be less zergs, the debuff is so severe it would 100% annoy everyone and stop players from clumping up. And it's not really penalizing as you say, since roamers already are penalized by roaming itself. What? Have you ever seen a single roamer killing a whole zerg? I don't think so. So roamers among roamers are on an even lvl and can still play without any actual downside. > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > Ive done it all in WvW from leading zergs (both pug and coordinated), done cavalry, havok and small scale/solo roam. While I respect your opinion, your suggestions are what should not be done imo. That's fine. I respect your's too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.1839 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 No thanks, I like big zerg fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazzarr.1349 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > So you claim to want less zergs, yet you penalize roamers with delevels? What next ya want to increase build diversity so you want to add an amulet system for stats? xD > > And there actually would be less zergs, the debuff is so severe it would 100% annoy everyone and stop players from clumping up. And it's not really penalizing as you say, since roamers already are penalized by roaming itself. What? Have you ever seen a single roamer killing a whole zerg? I don't think so. So roamers among roamers are on an even lvl and can still play without any actual downside. > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > Ive done it all in WvW from leading zergs (both pug and coordinated), done cavalry, havok and small scale/solo roam. While I respect your opinion, your suggestions are what should not be done imo. > > That's fine. I respect your's too. > > You talk like roaming is a separate environment from the rest of wvw and it’s not. You roam, take camps, even take towers when you can get away with it, you scout for the zergs. The last thing you need is to be scaled down because your function is not INSIDE the zerg. If you don’t see the problem with your suggestion here then you really don’t understand wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strages.2950 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 I find it interesting that long time WvW players who disagree with OP are dismissed because they're 'veterans'. These are the hardcore players who are the literal lifeblood of the game mode; maybe OP should keep an open mind to what these people have to say. I know the general outside view of zerging is that it is "mindless", hell I used to think the same way. What you don't see is that it takes a lot more than running around and dumping damage when the tag tells you to do it. But then again, people who think this way haven't actually faced proper comps with organized groups, or they've leeched off these groups by just running around and dumping damage. Try picking up 40+ randoms just running around and dumping damage against groups like DED, JOY, Wavy or several other organized guilds with particular comps; you will be flattened unless you massively outnumber them. WvW zerg strategy is a lot slower, premeditated affair that begins way before an actual engagement; the actual composition of the group. Who plays what, with what gear, for what purpose. How you move, how your group stays on tag (or not). How the group opens an engagement. How do you react to being engaged upon. Do you charge in a double dodge through, do you "peel the onion", do you reposition. Which of your 3 spellbreakers uses Winds first? In what order? Can the members of the group manage cooldowns. Will the third guy have stability to pull it off. Are you necros dropping wells at their feet or on the enemy? I could go on for a good hour talking about high ground positioning, portal play, wall farming, stealth baiting, bla bla bla... What you dont seem to understand is that there are LEVELS to this thing. Just because you don't participate in such groups doesn't mean that they are not out there. That said, WvW does need considerable changes to make it more engaging for both new and veteran players. They just have nothing to do with the changes proposed in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASP.8093 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 If you play an actual roaming/scouting build, getting blobbed down is not a major issue most of the time. You can usually outrun or juke a zerg with a little bit of forethought. Sometimes you can even tickle their tail because they know it's not worth it to chase you, or the commander doesn't notice when a few of the slowest pugs get left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > @"Clyan.1593" said: > > > Remove Zergs: > > > - new max squad size is 20 > > > - Going close to a member of a different squad reduces movement by 80%, debuff called "mist repulsion" (distance has to be tested) > > > - By joining a squad armor is dyed to commander's tag color > > > - Upon entering WvW you get assigned to the "roamer population", colored white > > > - Roaming / playing outside of a squad will downscale your level to 50 to ensure roamer blobs don't work against squads > > > > > > If necessary reduce HP of structures to fit new party sizes overall dmg output. > > > > > > Now we have more smaller battles around the map and the game mode is less AOE spamming but more individual skill. > > > Roamers can do their thing or - if refusing to join a squad - are useless. > > > > > > Overall this will create a more dynamic battlefield, give more space to strategic thinking and coordination among the commanders. > > > Players will also be more spread out on the map, using up all the empty and bare landscape we have right now. > > > > > > EDIT: > > > I knew I'd get quite some hate for this post, but let's face it. Alliances won't save this mode, unless it provides additional and significant changes to gameplay. > > > You're delusional if you believe otherwise. > > > The vast majority of people that don't enjoy WvW in the first place all complain about the same thing: That it's dull. They go in only to farm Gift of Battle. > > > One might say that those people don't belong in WvW then, but I would argue against that, especially since this mode is lacking popularity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remove the ability to party up, force everyone to be a roamer. See I Can make up BS statements as If I knew remotely anything about the game mode, strictly to make it better for me and my friends. Look how smart I am GG. In all seriousness this is ridiculous and EVERY type of playstyle and group-type/roamer should have a place in the game, Objectives should be harder and more lucrative and worthwhile to capture and hold. > > > > You BS suggestion is what would lead to the modes death, so this is a no for me with a big oof on the side. > > You can still party up. Really there is no big change here if you think about it. A lone roamer wouldn't win against a zerg either. > If you want to fight a squad you simply have to find 19 other people that will join your squad. > If you don't find them you will roam and fight other roamers. Yes well this change isn't what is needed, nor would it fix the mode.. If anything it would kill it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikharzeeh.8016 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 @"Clyan.1593" totally unnecessary change. u do realize that even guilds have larger size than 20? xD also there's absolutely no reason for any of those flagging changes. it matters not at all. if u dislike the shinyness, use standard models. many of us use them anyways for performance. also "color enemys of server in their teamcolor" is yet usable @ options... "zergs" are only moderate size till like 40ish, afterwards it's a blob. and no matter the group size, you can wipe if u meet just better coordinated groups. if their movement and class composition and woke-ness of people is just better than your groups, 40 ppl can wipe 60+ easily. if players spread out too much, 25 ppl can wipe 50+, you just need to keep distance a bit to refill your bomb /sustain cooldowns, not too hard. at similar zerg size and experience however, 40 vs 50 can be barely possible to win, or only if the bigger group slacks/sleep a moment. .... also u probably don't really get that zerg fights, largescale overall, is a major point of Wvw. spvp is for smallscale. i don't think the roamers in wvw can complain either, they have tons of invisibility and mobility on their classes and far too high dps. roamergroups are the real gankers in this format, and smaller squad size would not make that better, rather worse. 20v20 or 30v30 are rather GvG group sizes, usually. otherwise i cannot imagine how you would come to the conclusion, that "big zerg fights only rely on the comm"... like yeah, he is pretty important, but every player has the option to just not follow his orders if he leads u several times into bad positions. good players of every class avoid the enemy's bubbles and dps peaks, while they provide their role, be it dps or healing, to your own teams. a comm can call movement and predict bombs, stealth etc of enemy groups correctly, but if the groups players do not know what to do, and press their buttons when needed, then numbers matter not anymore. and the comm cannot push the buttons for his squad, really not. he also cannot do anything if half of a random opensquad just chase enemy roamers. usually comms don't order chasing roamers tho. only if some of them try to gank and pull single targets constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The OPs suggestions are not something I'd like to see changed in the game mode. Large guilds and us roamers (we roamers?) would be alienated by these changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizhas.8536 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I might not agree with all the sugestions from the OP but its true that WvW requires of some of those mechanics. WvW needs mechanincs for... - ...preventing zerg stacking. 15, 20 or 25 are decent numbers for ZvsZ fights. Fights between bigger number zergs are quite brainless. - ...preventing people following squads they do not belong to. Speed reductions, more damage incomes or whatever idea you can think about. The goal is that people should be forced to play all around the map and not in one single point. - ...effective or active population balance (this point would be where Alliances come in) - ...decent rewards. Who doesn´t like shinnies? Would it be so trully difficult to add some nice rewards to the reward tracks, ticket vendors or final match scoring system? If players would have a reason for winning every week, more players would be dragged into the gamemode. Of course if you always reward the same gamemode (pve or the shop) with new decent armor/weapons/items, people will always be playing that content since other contents (WvW or PvP) do not reward nothing interesting. Many, really many of the players I know. They love WvW but eventually they go to Fractals/Raids/Farming for getting gold for their shinies. Would not WvW be much more active if Anet would not force those players to go to PvE for gold or the skins they like the most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrkides.4083 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 to where are those poeple going for this or where are they found it :D :D :D :D You know when WvW was great? First 2 years of GW was golden era of wvw, give us these times back, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Itd be far easier to make the commander a uncontestable waypoint. Then bloblings can never leave their safe space and ktrain in peace as intended. Long live the blob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talindra.4958 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 not everyone in wvw waste their time hunting down 1 or 2 roamers in a big squad. that is so boring. and not everyone enjoy playing in open tag for ppt or etc... I rarely join open tag to me, the fun part of wvw is playing in an organised small group around 15 to 20 people. and seeking for similar or enemy blobs to play. if there are just 1 or 2 scattered roamers or free casters.. then the game will be considered dead to the guild that I am playing with. the reason it keep the guild together is .. we play together as guild squad and there are the social component in it too as we enter any battle field. I mean... this is Guildwars like I said.. if anet can promote better reward for guild raids.. it maybe way to help some guild to grow and help to improve small zerks and put together scattered roamers into smaller size raid. and you cant stop massive brainless zerg if that server chose to do it. wvw has too many wild variables.. not something dev can easily fix. also you cant say all open tag massive zergway is brainless zerg.. because we small group hunting down those brainless zerg group as they are yummy easy food easy kill for organised small group.. :) so yes, they are good fighters in massive open tag too and experienced commanders that comes in different style... this is when it become more challenging for smaller group but it is ok. challenge is good. it is unplayable when we have massive migration of entire server to clog up the servers. like what is happening with AG+ FR atm.. it is totally silly. ruin the game for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 > @"Clyan.1593" said: > People complain about how WvW is not good and is abandoned by the devs. > Time to give them suggestions. If mine is kitten then be it. I did my part. Reducing squad sizes will hardly solve the problems that are the reason for those complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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