Spite trailt line is too balanced for its own

[Mormegil.2345]

So it blocks duo-traitline combos when taking an elite spec, since Spite has its own perfection by itself.

Yes there are Spite synergies with elite specs for spite

but it does not let you free from not choosing it

so i offer a kind of solution which will not be a nerf to it, but essencialy will make different synergies:

move utility and heal traits from spite to another traitline and move theirs offensive traits to Spite.

Simple as that and that is coming weird since we are used to this trait line characteristics

but it is also the same explaination to my perspective i am describing now.

For you to understand, Spite made in order to mean necromancer!s spite; so there we see the point when we see the signet(passivest utility skill kind) on the major master slot de"spite"(haha) it opposes with the very essence of spiting, there we see the actual problem.

Which the told is, enables us from choosing like:

in the case i use one of my traitline slots for my elite so i have two slots left to take,

i need raw def for one traitline and the other one slot for power power:

but when i tend to take a line all along for only power gains, i am forced to take the other line to complete it.

so it makes no choice of choosing both lines for only one aim.

what generally will be different is: when you take a traitline for only one aim, it will make it good enough just by its own.

For example when you decide to utilize your healing, you must not have to take Signets of Suffering from Spite traitline, you shouldn't have to. The signet's healing increasing passive effects shoult be put onto the side of some other minor or major trait's actual attribute. No it wont make that trait OP, because it won't be for all signet increases. For example, so the will the life force gain increasement for Signet of Undeath will be put to some place in Soul Reaping traitline. Simply, seperation of choices will give us the ability for choice independently.

I think i dont have to explain the approach any further for you to understand mates, im sure you understood it on the half of the read already but i wanted to clarify it for all.

 

Thank you for giving time

>:)

 

 

 

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

> so i offer a kind of solution which will not be a nerf to it, but essencialy will make different synergies:

> move utility and heal traits from spite to another traitline and move theirs offensive traits to Spite.

Of course this is a nerf, because you can't combine these traits anymore if you put them in one traitline.

 

In general your whole argumentation is very weak. You are talking more about personal preferences than real issues.

 

Spite almost exclusively focuses on improving damage - direct damage via multipliers and direct and condi damage via vulnerability. The signets are mostly defensive, which is a good reason why their trait should be placed in spite (a traitline that has no additional defense except that tiny condi cleanse on heal), because this prevents the player from creating some cancer bunker build that would be impossible to balance without overnerfing skills and traits in a way that they are useless, if not used in that specific bunker build.

 

Mirage has seen that. While mirage cloak was balanced in most builds, if you focussed on endurance generation, the whole spec became broken. This lead to such an extreme nerf (removal of one endurance bar), that now you can play mirage only, if you focus on endurance generation. The whole build variety was killed. And this would happen to necro too, if anet followed your suggestions.

 

Another example: the signets have seen huge general nerfs just because core necro can run more defensive traitlines than scourge and reaper. If you put the signet trait into a defensive traitine, then you instantly get another broken bunker core build, which would lead to further signet nerfs, that would make them useless for reaper and scourge.

 

[Mormegil.2345]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > so i offer a kind of solution which will not be a nerf to it, but essencialy will make different synergies:

> > move utility and heal traits from spite to another traitline and move theirs offensive traits to Spite.

> Of course this is a nerf, because you can't combine these traits anymore if you put them in one traitline.

>

> In general your whole argumentation is very weak. You are talking more about personal preferences than real issues.

>

> Spite almost exclusively focuses on improving damage - direct damage via multipliers and direct and condi damage via vulnerability. The signets are mostly defensive, which is a good reason why their trait should be placed in spite (a traitline that has no additional defense except that tiny condi cleanse on heal), because this prevents the player from creating some cancer bunker build that would be impossible to balance without overnerfing skills and traits in a way that they are useless, if not used in that specific bunker build.

>

> Mirage has seen that. While mirage cloak was balanced in most builds, if you focussed on endurance generation, the whole spec became broken. This lead to such an extreme nerf (removal of one endurance bar), that now you can play mirage only, if you focus on endurance generation. The whole build variety was killed. And this would happen to necro too, if anet followed your suggestions.

>

> Another example: the signets have seen huge general nerfs just because core necro can run more defensive traitlines than scourge and reaper. If you put the signet trait into a defensive traitine, then you instantly get another broken bunker core build, which would lead to further signet nerfs, that would make them useless for reaper and scourge.

>

 

I am not arguing mate. nor i tend to give an arguement, which i point out is a customization method to increase the number of possible succeeding builds, my examples is only to describe it for those who likes to understand, not a numberic proof of rightfulness. making it an arguement or not is up to you who reads it. my aim was to post it to you all, not to make it done already^^ also most traitlines has like 51%+ focus on a spesific kind of improvements so my suggestion was always been staying on the basic idea since anet made the lines this way. what i do is bringing its roots to life.

[Obtena.7952]

It's interesting you are an advocate for 'increase the number of possible succeeding builds' here while in another thread proclaiming how Blood Bank is good trait design because of how awesome it is for absurd survival in WvW ... and nothing else.

 

I think the thing that is missing from your suggestion is the appreciation that possible succeeding builds doesn't have anything to do with what traits are in what lines. The builds that succeed are optimal for winning strategies; that's determined by game design, not class design.

[Black Storm.6974]

I have no problems swapping Spite for something else, it is often the first specialization I consider swapping. I don’t see the issue.

 

Anyway I feel like Signets of Suffering and Signet of Undeath feet very well the Spite trait line in a pure DPS build.

Without them, Reaper often feels very clunky and unreliable, because of the lack of Life Force generation.

[Mormegil.2345]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> It's interesting you are an advocate for 'increase the number of possible succeeding builds' here while in another thread proclaiming how Blood Bank is good trait design because of how awesome it is for absurd survival in WvW ... and nothing else.

>

> I think the thing that is missing from your suggestion is the appreciation that possible succeeding builds doesn't have anything to do with what traits are in what lines. The builds that succeed are optimal for winning strategies; that's determined by game design, not class design.

 

i also said that blood traitline doesnt offer enough and i take the line for just bloodbank, if it gets the other heal benefits into the same line just like the signet improve ive mentioned here, that can feel complete.

if you are already love enough what you have, are you aiming to destroy incoming ideas that might open some others?

or what is your very non-acceptive goal for being here?

gw2 is still my favorite mmorpg, my goal is to open possibilites, not to destroy anything lol

[Mormegil.2345]

> @"Black Storm.6974" said:

> I have no problems swapping Spite for something else, it is often the first specialization I consider swapping. I don’t see the issue.

>

> Anyway I feel like Signets of Suffering and Signet of Undeath feet very well the Spite trait line in a pure DPS build.

> Without them, Reaper often feels very clunky and unreliable, because of the lack of Life Force generation.

 

what my point is that when you aim for some particular thing you can perfectize it ifs the traits arent split between lines. my actual hope is to have all traits free of lines some day but that wont fit the marketing scenarios so its unlikely to get real. although ppl take the suggestion here is offensive in some way, i can generally tell that trait system improves since the very launch of the game. remember that when we had those lines giving stats and had to take one for a certain stats increase, anet saw it limits the customization too much so remade the system adaptively in order to keep the dynamic synergies active and effective. my idea isnt perfect, nor i get a reward for thinking about it. so you are very much allowed to take the idea and improve it in some way that i cant even imagine x)

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > It's interesting you are an advocate for 'increase the number of possible succeeding builds' here while in another thread proclaiming how Blood Bank is good trait design because of how awesome it is for absurd survival in WvW ... and nothing else.

> >

> > I think the thing that is missing from your suggestion is the appreciation that possible succeeding builds doesn't have anything to do with what traits are in what lines. The builds that succeed are optimal for winning strategies; that's determined by game design, not class design.

>

> i also said that blood traitline doesnt offer enough and i take the line for just bloodbank, if it gets the other heal benefits into the same line just like the signet improve ive mentioned here, that can feel complete.

> if you are already love enough what you have, are you aiming to destroy incoming ideas that might open some others?

> or what is your very non-acceptive goal for being here?

> gw2 is still my favorite mmorpg, my goal is to open possibilites, not to destroy anything lol

 

Nothing is being destroyed here because the idea isn't reality and frankly, pretty vague and lacking details to begin with. It's just an idea and we are discussing its validity. My two complaint is that you have somehow concluded that moving traits will open up some range of succeeding builds and that you can simply juggle traits around, disregarding theme of the traitlines.

 

Builds that succeed are optimal solutions to ways to win encounters so simply moving traits doesn't open up more choice ... it just moves the choices around, possibly even ruining them because there are restrictions in making trait choices. Opening up more builds for success has nothing to do with moving traits. It depends on game design.

 

The things that are in Spite are there because of theme to begin with ... so moving traits around ... Anet has done this a few times but what traits in Spite are inappropriate there and more appropriate somewhere else ... based on THEME? I don't see in your opening post any actual suggestions on what should move and where it should move to ... it's a little unfair to accuse someone of destroying something that has so little substance to begin with.

 

I'm going to put out a counter to your idea. IMO, Spite is already 'perfect' ... the goal should be to make it more 'perfect' because of how pertinent it is in any 'successful' build. That doesn't mean moving things out ... it means enhancing whatever less-than-stellar things are in it. If Spite is a 'de-facto' choice ... then let's make ALL the choices in it amazing.

 

 

[Mormegil.2345]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > It's interesting you are an advocate for 'increase the number of possible succeeding builds' here while in another thread proclaiming how Blood Bank is good trait design because of how awesome it is for absurd survival in WvW ... and nothing else.

> > >

> > > I think the thing that is missing from your suggestion is the appreciation that possible succeeding builds doesn't have anything to do with what traits are in what lines. The builds that succeed are optimal for winning strategies; that's determined by game design, not class design.

> >

> > i also said that blood traitline doesnt offer enough and i take the line for just bloodbank, if it gets the other heal benefits into the same line just like the signet improve ive mentioned here, that can feel complete.

> > if you are already love enough what you have, are you aiming to destroy incoming ideas that might open some others?

> > or what is your very non-acceptive goal for being here?

> > gw2 is still my favorite mmorpg, my goal is to open possibilites, not to destroy anything lol

>

> Nothing is being destroyed here because the idea isn't reality and frankly, pretty vague and lacking details to begin with. It's just an idea and we are discussing its validity. My two complaint is that you have somehow concluded that moving traits will open up some range of succeeding builds and that you can simply juggle traits around, disregarding theme of the traitlines.

>

> Builds that succeed are optimal solutions to ways to win encounters so simply moving traits doesn't open up more choice ... it just moves the choices around, possibly even ruining them because there are restrictions in making trait choices. Opening up more builds for success has nothing to do with moving traits. It depends on game design.

>

> The things that are in Spite are there because of theme to begin with ... so moving traits around ... Anet has done this a few times but what traits in Spite are inappropriate there and more appropriate somewhere else ... based on THEME? I don't see in your opening post any actual suggestions on what should move and where it should move to ... it's a little unfair to accuse someone of destroying something that has so little substance to begin with.

>

> I'm going to put out a counter to your idea. IMO, Spite is already 'perfect' ... the goal should be to make it more 'perfect' because of how pertinent it is in any 'successful' build. That doesn't mean moving things out ... it means enhancing whatever less-than-stellar things are in it. If Spite is a 'de-facto' choice ... then let's make ALL the choices in it amazing.

>

>

 

okay mate you can keep using spite ahaha

after that you've accepted its perfection, which means the ultimate balance, which means that you accept the perspective of this very post but opposiing still because of your own benefits and not for the general improvements >;)

spite around o/

[Yasai.3549]

All I'm reading is someone who is upset that every Major is "kinda good" and yu are spoilt for choice.

Good.

It means yu are forced to pick based on yur build.

 

I wish more traitlines had Majors which are "hard to pick for" like Spite instead of having 2 or 3 dead traits which is useful nowhere in the game.

[Mormegil.2345]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> All I'm reading is someone who is upset that every Major is "kinda good" and yu are spoilt for choice.

> Good.

> It means yu are forced to pick based on yur build.

>

> I wish more traitlines had Majors which are "hard to pick for" like Spite instead of having 2 or 3 dead traits which is useful nowhere in the game.

 

are you a stand up comedian?

not bad

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Mormegil.2345" said:

 

> are you a stand up comedian?

> not bad

 

Yea, and yu should sit down cos yur joke's so bad.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> So it blocks duo-traitline combos when taking an elite spec, since Spite has its own perfection by itself.

> Yes there are Spite synergies with elite specs for spite

> but it does not let you free from not choosing it

 

Wait wait wait.

Am I reading this right?

You say spite is an "auto include" in every build?

 

What game are you playing? Can't be guildwars 2. If you want to complain about a trait line it would be soulreaping, but spite?

 

Do condition builds use spite? No, not enough utility, and almost no synergies

Do power builds use spite? - yes, but not all of them, there's valid options to play without spite.

Tank builds - don't really exist.

 

But when do you take soulreaping?

Condition builds - yes

Power builds - yes

Soulreaping is an auto include in 80 to 90% of all necro builds

 

> so i offer a kind of solution which will not be a nerf to it, but essencialy will make different synergies:

> move utility and heal traits from spite to another traitline and move theirs offensive traits to Spite.

> Simple as that and that is coming weird since we are used to this trait line characteristics

> but it is also the same explaination to my perspective i am describing now.

> For you to understand, Spite made in order to mean necromancer!s spite; so there we see the point when we see the signet(passivest utility skill kind) on the major master slot de"spite"(haha) it opposes with the very essence of spiting, there we see the actual problem.

> Which the told is, enables us from choosing like:

> in the case i use one of my traitline slots for my elite so i have two slots left to take,

> i need raw def for one traitline and the other one slot for power power:

> but when i tend to take a line all along for only power gains, i am forced to take the other line to complete it.

> so it makes no choice of choosing both lines for only one aim.

> what generally will be different is: when you take a traitline for only one aim, it will make it good enough just by its own.

> For example when you decide to utilize your healing, you must not have to take Signets of Suffering from Spite traitline, you shouldn't have to. The signet's healing increasing passive effects shoult be put onto the side of some other minor or major trait's actual attribute. No it wont make that trait OP, because it won't be for all signet increases. For example, so the will the life force gain increasement for Signet of Undeath will be put to some place in Soul Reaping traitline. Simply, seperation of choices will give us the ability for choice independently.

> I think i dont have to explain the approach any further for you to understand mates, im sure you understood it on the half of the read already but i wanted to clarify it for all.

>

> Thank you for giving time

> >:)

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

[LucianDK.8615]

I see nothing about which game modes OP is talking about. For pve, necromancer definitely needs all the boosts that can be stacked up in non solo content.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

To be frank, as someone who plays both Necro and Warrior, the Necro traitlines are in a vastly better place than the Warrior traitlines right now. Count your blessings.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Mormegil.2345" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > It's interesting you are an advocate for 'increase the number of possible succeeding builds' here while in another thread proclaiming how Blood Bank is good trait design because of how awesome it is for absurd survival in WvW ... and nothing else.

> > > >

> > > > I think the thing that is missing from your suggestion is the appreciation that possible succeeding builds doesn't have anything to do with what traits are in what lines. The builds that succeed are optimal for winning strategies; that's determined by game design, not class design.

> > >

> > > i also said that blood traitline doesnt offer enough and i take the line for just bloodbank, if it gets the other heal benefits into the same line just like the signet improve ive mentioned here, that can feel complete.

> > > if you are already love enough what you have, are you aiming to destroy incoming ideas that might open some others?

> > > or what is your very non-acceptive goal for being here?

> > > gw2 is still my favorite mmorpg, my goal is to open possibilites, not to destroy anything lol

> >

> > Nothing is being destroyed here because the idea isn't reality and frankly, pretty vague and lacking details to begin with. It's just an idea and we are discussing its validity. My two complaint is that you have somehow concluded that moving traits will open up some range of succeeding builds and that you can simply juggle traits around, disregarding theme of the traitlines.

> >

> > Builds that succeed are optimal solutions to ways to win encounters so simply moving traits doesn't open up more choice ... it just moves the choices around, possibly even ruining them because there are restrictions in making trait choices. Opening up more builds for success has nothing to do with moving traits. It depends on game design.

> >

> > The things that are in Spite are there because of theme to begin with ... so moving traits around ... Anet has done this a few times but what traits in Spite are inappropriate there and more appropriate somewhere else ... based on THEME? I don't see in your opening post any actual suggestions on what should move and where it should move to ... it's a little unfair to accuse someone of destroying something that has so little substance to begin with.

> >

> > I'm going to put out a counter to your idea. IMO, Spite is already 'perfect' ... the goal should be to make it more 'perfect' because of how pertinent it is in any 'successful' build. That doesn't mean moving things out ... it means enhancing whatever less-than-stellar things are in it. If Spite is a 'de-facto' choice ... then let's make ALL the choices in it amazing.

> >

> >

>

> okay mate you can keep using spite ahaha

 

Yes, joke is on me ... such a terrible fate to use a 'perfect' traitline. Until you suggest and an **actual** change to talk about, we shall suffer horribly with this.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

Man, complaining spite is too good when necromancer (nevermind other professions that have their own levels of this issue) still has bad traits littered in soul reaping, blood magic, and curses (to a far lesser extend, insidious disruption is really the only bad trait in curses - curses is close to being just as perfect as spite).

 

I'm really confused. Are you saying everyone takes spite? Only power builds do - I only touch it during the rare times I run them. Curses is the condition equivalent.

 

Are you saying that you are having trouble choosing between major traits? If so, that is excellent. Every single major trait in the game should be good enough to inflict choice paralysis on someone (or at the very least, good enough to run on a particular build).

 

If you are tired of running spite, just switch to a condi or support build. Easy.

[Mormegil.2345]

Looks like i've started a wrong lead. Although my aim does not differ, it needs another subjection.

Was taken spite as the power-orientation line, instead of taking it as the self-sufficeiency line.

Anyways thank you guys for your angry care hauashuahsd

have a neutral mind o/