FrizzFreston.5290 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > Clovers from those seems extremely rare. You have a much better chance of getting ascended materials, selling those, buying the coins then make the clover. > > The data I have from 1750 bundles is: > * roughly 1.6g value per 1000 unbound magic, on average (if you buy in Ember Bay; it's not worth it to buy in other areas) (taking into account Evon's cut) > * plus 3.9 clover per 100 bundles > > From 1000 packets, I have > * ~0.60g value per 1000 unbound magic > * includes the value of ~9 ascended mats per 100 packets (roughly evenly divided) > > In other words, it's better to buy bundles instead of packets, even if you don't care about the clover (and it's better still if you do). Thanks, that is very helpful. I have to say I havent farmed any of them, so I have to admit I have no clue otherwise. I just know that they also drop clovers. Considering they can be farmed and can be a considerable profit regardless, It only seems to me they are a great way of getting clovers regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaCoty.5721 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > Clovers from those seems extremely rare. You have a much better chance of getting ascended materials, selling those, buying the coins then make the clover. > > The data I have from 1750 bundles is: > * roughly 1.6g value per 1000 unbound magic, on average (if you buy in Ember Bay; it's not worth it to buy in other areas) (taking into account Evon's cut) > * plus 3.9 clover per 100 bundles > > From 1000 packets, I have > * ~0.60g value per 1000 unbound magic > * includes the value of ~9 ascended mats per 100 packets (roughly evenly divided) > > In other words, it's better to buy bundles instead of packets, even if you don't care about the clover (and it's better still if you do). Do you mind if I add this data to our (CG)'s upcoming website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @DakotaCoty.5721 said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > > Clovers from those seems extremely rare. You have a much better chance of getting ascended materials, selling those, buying the coins then make the clover. > > > > The data I have from 1750 bundles is: > > * roughly 1.6g value per 1000 unbound magic, on average (if you buy in Ember Bay; it's not worth it to buy in other areas) (taking into account Evon's cut) > > * plus 3.9 clover per 100 bundles > > > > From 1000 packets, I have > > * ~0.60g value per 1000 unbound magic > > * includes the value of ~9 ascended mats per 100 packets (roughly evenly divided) > > > > In other words, it's better to buy bundles instead of packets, even if you don't care about the clover (and it's better still if you do). > > Do you mind if I add this data to our (CG)'s upcoming website? Whats planned for that website? Isnt CG this farming guild, SW, Metas, PoF now i guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristalyan.5728 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Cristalyan.5728 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > > > > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. > From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? > > So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. > > **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. > Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? > > **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? > How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. > >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? Although you're right, you need to go broader... Arena Net's Obsession with control (to the point it actually hurts the game more often than it helps) is pervasive throughout the whole game. They constantly meddle and interfere instead of letting things go their natural course. Look at ascended cloth, Silk was abundant before they added the ability to craft legendary armor, so they decided to introduce an anomalous recipe requiring silk (you need twice the amount of silk compared to mithril, wood and leather (thus creating a exacerbated demand for the item) which made it punishing for players with light armor to craft ascended armor. (and it was by all means unnecessary to do since cloth is the most used component in armor, always required for the insignias and half of the armor components in all disciplines) Then because they isolated cloth recipes Leather became abundant in comparisson, so with HoT they added leather to insignia crafting and a lot of Guild recipes, which in turn made leather (the armor material item with less salvage returns) extremely expensive which led to them having to release the "leather farm" in Lake Doric to make up for some of that. The problem is the company policy of promoting SCARCITY of resources. So they usually tend to mess with demand instead of balancing demand and supply. But because they usually focus the changes on a single material, it creates bottlenecks that have a ripple effect on other materials. And this is the case with MC and Amalgamated Gemstones. These two materials because of their time-gated limits act as a bottleneck for crafting legendaries (the largest material sink), and this causes a ripple effect on the rest of the materials, because people have to wait for these time-gated materials (if they can't afford to buy them, or just plain don't want to) the other required materials end up being dumped into the market instead of used, which creates an overabundance and a significant price drop. Their constant meddling and tunnel vision focus on single materials ends up creating these bottle necks, which is why since release there has **always** been a specific craft material that was problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @ReaverKane.7598 said: > > @Cristalyan.5728 said: > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > > > > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > > > > > > > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. > > From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? > > > > So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. > > > > **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. > > Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? > > > > **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? > > How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > > > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. > > >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > > > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > > > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) > > > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). > > > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. > > > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? > > Although you're right, you need to go broader... Arena Net's Obsession with control (to the point it actually hurts the game more often than it helps) is pervasive throughout the whole game. > They constantly meddle and interfere instead of letting things go their natural course. > Look at ascended cloth, Silk was abundant before they added the ability to craft legendary armor, so they decided to introduce an anomalous recipe requiring silk (you need twice the amount of silk compared to mithril, wood and leather (thus creating a exacerbated demand for the item) which made it punishing for players with light armor to craft ascended armor. (and it was by all means unnecessary to do since cloth is the most used component in armor, always required for the insignias and half of the armor components in all disciplines) > Then because they isolated cloth recipes Leather became abundant in comparisson, so with HoT they added leather to insignia crafting and a lot of Guild recipes, which in turn made leather (the armor material item with less salvage returns) extremely expensive which led to them having to release the "leather farm" in Lake Doric to make up for some of that. > > The problem is the company policy of promoting SCARCITY of resources. So they usually tend to mess with demand instead of balancing demand and supply. But because they usually focus the changes on a single material, it creates bottlenecks that have a ripple effect on other materials. And this is the case with MC and Amalgamated Gemstones. > These two materials because of their time-gated limits act as a bottleneck for crafting legendaries (the largest material sink), and this causes a ripple effect on the rest of the materials, because people have to wait for these time-gated materials (if they can't afford to buy them, or just plain don't want to) the other required materials end up being dumped into the market instead of used, which creates an overabundance and a significant price drop. > > Their constant meddling and tunnel vision focus on single materials ends up creating these bottle necks, which is why since release there has **always** been a specific craft material that was problematic. I think the bigger problem was their attempt to fix things by changing too many factors at once. For example with silk they changed both the recipe and the salvage rate. Same with the leather. The other problem is applying permanent fixes to what are theoretically temporary problems. Once you have successfully burned through the supply of something it stops being oversupplied. The plans should have included some sort of safety valve to avoid having things shooting off into the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Cristalyan.5728 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > > > > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. > From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? > > So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. > > **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. > Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? > > **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? > How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. > >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? No. Data analysis is a skill that is not dependent on one’s position. Based on your post, I get the feeling that you may not have a grasp of supply/demand and its impact. It’s pretty evident that players en masse can impact the economy whether intention or not. When the last two legendary weapons came out, did all of the players decide together to inflate the cost of elder wood? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > @Cristalyan.5728 said: > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > > > > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > > > > > > > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. > > From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? > > > > So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. > > > > **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. > > Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? > > > > **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? > > How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > > > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. > > >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > > > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > > > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) > > > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). > > > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. > > > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? > > No. Data analysis is a skill that is not dependent on one’s position. > > Based on your post, I get the feeling that you may not have a grasp of supply/demand and its impact. It’s pretty evident that players en masse can impact the economy whether intention or not. When the last two legendary weapons came out, did all of the players decide together to inflate the cost of elder wood? No. Data analysis is a skill that needs to be learned. You can look at the same data points and reach two contradicting conclusions easily. It takes skill and learning to make the correct interpretation, especially when its something as wide-ranged as economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @ReaverKane.7598 said: > Data analysis is a skill that needs to be learned. You can look at the same data points and reach two contradicting conclusions easily. It takes skill and learning to make the correct interpretation, especially when its something as wide-ranged as economics. Glad you pointed it out, because evidence is strong that ANet is a lot better at data analysis than the community. **** > > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). On the contrary, this gives a lot more freedom to a lot more players. No one is saying that a single legendary is "enough for a player" and no one is forced to decide to make any. * Poorer players can choose to make one shiny or they can sell their coins to fun their other interests. * Richer players can make as many shinies as they want to afford, by paying others for their coins. Quotes like this one ignore the fact that legendaries are luxuries; there's no mandate to make any, let alone one. (And the mastery|spirit shard comment completely misses the point of the discussion. First, ANet is adjusting that so that no one needs Raid masteries to continue to gain spirit shards, just as they offered the shards for excess XP after removing it from the game entirely when HoT launched.) > > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? No one is stopping you. You just have to be willing to pay for it. > > > you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. Only if you don't want to spend. > > > You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! Yes, that's exactly how a market economy works. > > > The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. Um, no. At current prices, the supply is sufficient for the current demand. > > > > > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? That has been explained. Disliking the explanation or disagreeing with it doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @ReaverKane.7598 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > No. Data analysis is a skill that is not dependent on one’s position. > > > > Based on your post, I get the feeling that you may not have a grasp of supply/demand and its impact. It’s pretty evident that players en masse can impact the economy whether intention or not. When the last two legendary weapons came out, did all of the players decide together to inflate the cost of elder wood? No. > > Data analysis is a skill that needs to be learned. You can look at the same data points and reach two contradicting conclusions easily. It takes skill and learning to make the correct interpretation, especially when its something as wide-ranged as economics. Expertise is also context-dependent. Sure, I could take my degree in qualitative analysis and make a go of economic data, but I'd likely miss some key economic principles or particular market subtleties along the way that an embedded professional would acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @ReaverKane.7598 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > @Cristalyan.5728 said: > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > > > > > > > > > > He has access to the data, you don’t. Whether or not he has/had direct responsibility for the game economy doesn’t matter. What the data tells someone isn’t predicated by their involvement in the economy. > > > > > > > > When he said nobody, he’s referring to an individual or small group of individuals. We had this very same discussion many years ago rebooking precursors and how some players were accusing TP barons of manipulating the prices when it turned out to be untrue. A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. > > > > > > > > > > LOL :-))) The data are not the problem. The problem is the competence to interpret the data. Or, Mr. Cleary clearly lack the competence to do this. Why? Because ANet already had at that time a person officially considered competent to to this analysis. > > > From what you say we can understand that anyone can be the Federal Bank Governor because all the data are available. REALLY ? > > > > > > So, Mr. Cleary offered his opinion, like any other poster on the forum. What value has his opinion - everybody can judge and consider it. But his position as **Game Security leader** does not qualify him for **economic analysis**. > > > > > > **"When he said nobody, he’s referring to..."** . I don't think so. "Nobody" means "nobody". It has a very clear sense. > > > Your association between **nobody** and a group of persons is wrong. Because, you know, **nobody** means ....**nobody**? > > > > > > **"A small group of individuals is vastly different than a much larger subset of the playerbase. ** Are you suggesting that this larger subset of the playerbase cooperate to raise the price of the coins? Because, taking into account the complains coming from another "large subset of the playerbase", this is not a desired thing? > > > How do you think that the "large subset" can coordinate their actions in order to raise the price? > > > > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > People are being selective about offering quotes about mystic coins and other aspects of the economy. The key determining factors remain: > > > > * Coins aren't required for playing the game; they are only important to people who want specific shinies. > > > >* Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year. > > > > * The cost of making legendaries has largely dropped despite the increase in value of coins. > > > > * Coins currently provide an easy option for richer veterans to give some of their wealth to poorer newbies. (Later, when those poorer newbies become richer veterans, they can buy more for themselves. It's a classic case of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.) > > > > > > Well, in my opinion the cause of all the issues with the MC comes from this: **"Everyone already gets enough free coins to make a legendary each year"**. This is again ANet taking the freedom to think for the players. And to force them to do something (in this case to wait). Like in the Mastery Points related with the Spirit Shards. They tried to **force** the players to do something (raids). They decided that 1 Legendary weapon per year is enough for a player (and they try to force this decision to the players). > > > > > > What happens if you want to do **all** the legendaries? At a rate of one per year, you should praise ANet they did not fulfill the promise with the release of all the legendary weapons from HoT. But, no matter you still need over 20 years waiting for Anet. You don't want to wait 20 years? Buy ! The supply is far greater than the demand, so a merely 500 Coins should cost almost nothing. > > > > > > Why ANet so obsessively keeps this crafting material under his control? > > > > No. Data analysis is a skill that is not dependent on one’s position. > > > > Based on your post, I get the feeling that you may not have a grasp of supply/demand and its impact. It’s pretty evident that players en masse can impact the economy whether intention or not. When the last two legendary weapons came out, did all of the players decide together to inflate the cost of elder wood? No. > > Data analysis is a skill that needs to be learned. You can look at the same data points and reach two contradicting conclusions easily. It takes skill and learning to make the correct interpretation, especially when its something as wide-ranged as economics. Except if you looked at what Chris Clearly had stated, it wasn’t reliant on having intimate knowledge of the economy. Any one with those skills, and access to the data, could obtain those results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battledoll.1803 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @northlion.7608 said: > My actual question is therefor simple, **do you think Anet should add additional ways to get mystic coins in the upcomming Path of Fire expansion?** Yes, I support the idea to include additional ways to acquire Mystic Coins. As far as I know, they only come from daily login and the Anomaly event, which is severely limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taelac.7036 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Battledoll.1803 said: > Yes, I support the idea to include additional ways to acquire Mystic Coins. As far as I know, they only come from daily login and the Anomaly event, which is severely limited. There are several other ways they trickle in, which are more or less accessible depending on which game modes you enjoy: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Coin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @ReaverKane.7598 said: > > Data analysis is a skill that needs to be learned. You can look at the same data points and reach two contradicting conclusions easily. It takes skill and learning to make the correct interpretation, especially when its something as wide-ranged as economics. > > Glad you pointed it out, because evidence is strong that ANet is a lot better at data analysis than the community. They have been also known to make hilariously bad mistakes at it in the past. Well, they would have been hilarious if they weren't that sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauried.5608 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Theres currently 45000 mystic coins for sale on the TP. How is this limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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