pah.4931 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Anet's cash shop, no sub model might be the best on the market. If you don't believe me, try playing ArcheAge for a bit. With that said, some things are really, really expensive when you think about it (though in the long run, just paying $15/mo on gems will get you everything you would ever need plus some extra spending cash, so you still come out ahead of every Sub-based MMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Items like level 80 and wps have to be overpriced. If they weren't, than people would accuse it of being too effective, and possibly better than actually playing, thus mandatory (p2w) But because it is absurdly priced and clearly a luxury, there really shouldn't be any. Well... I guess not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondgirl.6315 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 My favorite thing about the gem store, that sets Arenanet apart from any other company whose games I have played, is that we are allowed t convert ingame currency to cash shop currency. As long as they keep letting us do that, I am fine with consumer principles determining the price of gem store items. EDIT - as long as they are convenience/cosmetic. I may personally think items are too high, but I can only assume they are not too high for enough people that it still makes sense to sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > Speaking solely for myself, I do not care for: > > 1) RNG purchases. This practice is clearly intended to make people pay more for a given item than they would pay if the item were sold at a fixed price they would be willing to pay. I want to know that I am spending X amount to get item Y, not that I have a Z% chance to get item W. This means that I only open BL chests with keys obtained by playing the game. I don't spend cash to get keys. I don't spend gold to get keys. > 2) Bundles which contain items not available individually. Sure, they offer potential savings for those who want enough of the items to make the larger price worthwhile, but I find that I usually want only one of the items. This means that I'd be paying more for the one item I want than the going rate for that item would be based on standard prices for similar items offered separately (e.g., outfits). Therefore, I boycott these purchases as well. > > As to setting a high price for a single item, like the L80 scroll the OP mentions? That I have no problem with. A single item at a fixed price is a straightforward business practice. If the price is too high, then consumers won't pay. I'm only opposed to practices that are designed to get people to spend more on an item than that item would command at a straightforward price point. 100% This. I'm more than willing to give cash to ANet, and I'm sitting on 1200 gems at the moment, waiting for spiffy things to buy. Keys are not one of those things. Perhaps if the price permanently dropped (I still maintain that 50 gems each is a much fairer price and more likely to drive key purchases), I might consider buying them more frequently. I usually acquire them from key runs or the "eh I have extra gems" whim. But even after all the tweaks and 'upgrades', I find myself disappointed with them. Then again, I'm not the type that RNG favors, ever. Add on that some of these items are account-bound + RNG *and* limited time, and that's just unacceptable when dealing with players' real money. Same thing for a few of the bundles out there. I like that the bundle packages exist as a way to give extra value and discount stuff someone might want, but locking an item behind a bundle exclusive is just bad practice. It's smarmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AegisRunestone.8672 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @"Esquilax.3491" said: > 2000 gems is Saudi prince? Exagerate much? That's an hours work on minimum wage. Most of us work 8 hour days... You know what? I'd rather spend that money on things I need. Like food, clothing, etc. and also save it for future purchases like a house, a new computer, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 As someone that design slot machines for a living I can say the reason that jurisdictions in the US do not consider Loot Boxes to be gambling is because you can not legally obtain money for any virtual items you receive. You don't actually pay for the loot boxes, you pay for the gems. At this point the money is spent and can never be recovered. What you do with those gems is your business. In order for US jurisdictions to regulate, the definition of gambling would have to redefined. The video game industry would have many partners in fighting this redefinition. The effects of redefining gambling to include loot boxes will have affect many industries. The best thing video companies can do is to clearly list the odds of receiving prizes from loot boxes. Because some of the posters in this thread have resorted to posts that are nothing more than name calling I believe that it is time to close this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Revenant.4970 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 It's as if people don't realize you can buy gems with in-game gold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondgirl.6315 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @"The Revenant.4970" said: > It's as if people don't realize you can buy gems with in-game gold... As far as I am concerned, that saves the whole thing from feeling too exploity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @DarcShriek.5829 said: You don't actually pay for the loot boxes, you pay for the gems. At this point the money is spent and can never be recovered. What you do with those gems is your business. In order for US jurisdictions to regulate, the definition of gambling would have to redefined. I'm curious (living in Germany), how is that different from buying chips in a casino? You don't pay to play Black Jack, you pay for the chips. Is the only difference that you can trade chips back into money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @"The Revenant.4970" said: > It's as if people don't realize you can buy gems with in-game gold... Or that you can get gems just by reaching some AP thresholds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Faaris.8013 said: > > @DarcShriek.5829 said: > You don't actually pay for the loot boxes, you pay for the gems. At this point the money is spent and can never be recovered. What you do with those gems is your business. In order for US jurisdictions to regulate, the definition of gambling would have to redefined. > > I'm curious (living in Germany), how is that different from buying chips in a casino? You don't pay to play Black Jack, you pay for the chips. Is the only difference that you can trade chips back into money? You described the big difference, Casino chips can be exchanged for cash with the establishment that sold them to you. Gems can't be exchanged for cash. Also, in the US, casinos will occasionally accept cash at tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Vayne.8563 said: > > @inubasiri.8745 said: > > > @Vayne.8563 said: > > > See, the thing to me is that home instance nodes were always meant to be hard to get items to begin with. Stuff for the high rollers to buy. It's not a problem because everything from those nodes you can easily get in the open world. Waypoint unlock packs were meant for people who HATE going through the open world. It's not worth it with mounts. The OP sites this as a problem. The point is, if it was worth it, people would call the game pay to win. > > > > > > That's always been the problem. Anything that you remotely have to get from the gem store is something that people will call pay to win. Most of the stuff in the gem store isn't worth it, unless you have extra money. > > > > > > But remember, a percentage of the playerbase has a ton of gold. So if you're one of those people, who can instantly turn gold to gems, you can buy everything anyway. To me, the cash shop was meant to be about people paying cash for stuff to support the game, which I do, because I know games need the support. > > > > > > This is a non-argument. > > > > > > The only thing I agree with is the RNG skins in BLC chests. That annoys me some. > > > > I'd just like to point out with the nodes that there's "hard to get" and there's "unavailable until Anet decides to put them back in". > > So I have everything but two nodes. And do you know how much my game will suffer if I have neither the iron node nor the hardwood node? Not at all. This is just a non-issue. It's a gold sink for rich players. It remains a gold sink because the scarcity level is maintained. Gold sink is something designed to take gold out of the system, compensating for gold dropping from monsters. This is gold circulating among players (albeit taxed). Again, though, how are you supposed to be able to shower someone with gold, if that item is completely unavailable. As in 0 items on TP. All because Anet is not consistent even. They had advanced nodes in BLC twice in a row, but iron node only once. And again I want to believe Anet is just neglecting things, not sinister about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted October 24, 2017 Author Share Posted October 24, 2017 > @Chadramar.8156 said: > "Whale" is the term used by microtransaction-peddlers to describe big spenders. It's not an insult that some snot-nosed brat came up with because he was jealous of some other person having more bling-bling, it's actually how the people who push lootboxes and gambling view their "customers": as whales, dolphins, or minnows. It's pretty kitten telling. > > IMO it's always good to be _extremely_ critical of microtransactions, because so much of it is so deeply unethical and explicitly designed to prey on children and people with addiction-prone personalities, which is as vile as it gets. I recommend Jim Sterling's many videos on this issue (and others). And while I do think microtransactions in general can be done with decency, gambling is always suspect at best. > > Support a company and game you like? Sure. But never uncritically. There are some definitely disturbing trends in how the game industry is changing. "They need to make money _somehow_" is not an argument because it sounds as if we're talking about starving minimum-wagers, not an industry that makes obscene amounts of money. I can only thumbs up this post once, so I'll use my powers as OP and quote your post to underline how much I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 em, I am cofused. What is wrong about whales? They hurt no one. And whales keep games like this afloat. A few people spending serious bucks for skins and other items without any mechanical influence, make it possible for us all to enjoy this game. So: thank you whales! I am also have no problems with current gem store items or policies. I occasionally buy 20 or more keys - just because of the fun of opening chests. I know it is basically a waste of money, but: I do not care. It is fun. My fun. At the moment nothing in the gem store really makes me want to buy it, so I am fine too. Nothing there will change the game in any way, except maybe making the mounts looking horrible. Which is fine. I don't have to stare at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said: > em, I am cofused. > > What is wrong about whales? They hurt no one. And whales keep games like this afloat. A few people spending serious bucks for skins and other items without any mechanical influence, make it possible for us all to enjoy this game. So: thank you whales! > > I am also have no problems with current gem store items or policies. I occasionally buy 20 or more keys - just because of the fun of opening chests. I know it is basically a waste of money, but: I do not care. It is fun. My fun. At the moment nothing in the gem store really makes me want to buy it, so I am fine too. Nothing there will change the game in any way, except maybe making the mounts looking horrible. Which is fine. I don't have to stare at them. I don't think anyone has a problem with whales, this is not a competitive game after all. It's a problem if whales/addicts are exploited, and a few gem shop items have been listed that possibly do that. Waypoint unlocks or L80 boost for the same cost as a whole expansion for example, maybe to make the ultimate version to look like a really good deal. Black Lion Chests is a form of gambling that could possibly be interpreted as an exploit of addicts. I feel sorry for addicts, or whales as you call them, and I'm pro restrictions to protect them. That's why gambling outside of video games is restricted. I'm not saying that ArenaNet exploits addicts, but some people feel that a few things are borderline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inubasiri.8745 Posted November 8, 2017 Author Share Posted November 8, 2017 Update of the original post now containing mention of the new mount adoption tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 whales are not addicts and addicts are not whales. Whales spend money because they CAN. Addicts spent the money because their mental problems FORCES them. Two completely different populations you should not confuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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