Could anyone find a way to make Phantasmal Force work

[Lethion.8745]

Because I couldn't.

[Dadnir.5038]

That's an organized PvE trait. So I guess you mean: "work efficiently in competitive modes."

The answer is probably "no", because the extra damage that this trait offer to the phantasms aren't exactly needed in competitive modes where either the said fanstasm might be destroyed before doing it's job (WvW/large scale) or you'll simply not have the support behind you to gain high might (sPvP/solo roaming).

[Lethion.8745]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> That's an organized PvE trait. So I guess you mean: "work efficiently in competitive modes."

> The answer is probably "no", because the extra damage that this trait offer to the phantasms aren't exactly needed in competitive modes where either the said fanstasm might be destroyed before doing it's job (WvW/large scale) or you'll simply not have the support behind you to gain high might (sPvP/solo roaming).

 

I figured out it's best usage is organized PvE but isn't Dueling+Domination better in all cases? I see no reason to replace one of those lines with Illusions unless you are F2P.

[Dadnir.5038]

I'd say duelling and illusion are even. The most effective traitline depend on the encounter design and your "role" in the team. If the boss mainly take damage while in breakbar/stuned state then go for duelling, if the fight need a constant DPS then go for illusion. That's how I see things.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

Phantasm Force passively grants might on phantasm despawn *and* respawn (if running chronophantasma) regardless.

 

> @"Lethion.8745" said:

> I figured out it's best usage is organized PvE but isn't Dueling+Domination better in all cases? I see no reason to replace one of those lines with Illusions unless you are F2P.

 

Illu used to be more in line with Domi before Vicious Expression was added; Illu did less dmg but was burstier and generated its own quickness and might. However, Vicious Expression introduced another +15% to both player and phant dmg (we ignore clones cuz its dmg is negligible) in domi, resulting in a total of +42.3% to player dmg and +32.3% to phant dmg (23.8%/15% previously). Illu evidently could no longer compete with its +10% player dmg, +25% phant dmg and even with its extra condi dmg, shorter shatter CDs + double F1.

 

You can see how the Illusions traitline would’ve been used before Vicious Expression and why it’s no longer even an option now.

 

Edit: For completion’s sake, Dueling is *roughly* 24.8%/18.2% plus ~4% on top worth of bleed (you could say 28.8%/22.2% for simplicity’s sake) with shorter sword CDs, which is important for spamming blurred frenzy/swordsman/signet (you don’t delay it as swordsman refreshes faster).

[Yasai.3549]

I use Phantasmal Force, but only for PvE, and only for Openworld/Metas.

 

If yu run a Chronophantasma build using Sword/Sword GS, yu are actually capable of getting a decent bit of Might using Phantasmal Swordsman and Mirror Blade when performing yur burst.

 

Yu will also be using Mantra Of Pain for a burst of Might before performing yur burst combo which will make yur burst extremely strong with having around 20~ might stacks.

 

The burst combo I'm accustomed to using is Mantra Channel > Illusory Leap > Phantasmal Swordsman > Flurry > Swap GS > Mirror Blade > Phantasmal Berserker and just spamming Power Spikes in between Leap and Swap.

 

But honestly, it's just a meme.

Power Mesmer isn't ultra hot in PvE content.

[Senqu.8054]

Since they destroyed might generation on sword offhand + the 2 iWarlocks to 1, this trait is obsolete like 90% of the other traits. One of many builds we can not play anymore...

[necromaniac.7629]

Phantasmal force is excellent for solo pve stuff, basically solo version of power chrono or dungeons for carrying, you swap out domination.

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

> Phantasm Force passively grants might on phantasm despawn *and* respawn (if running chronophantasma) regardless.

>

> > @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > I figured out it's best usage is organized PvE but isn't Dueling+Domination better in all cases? I see no reason to replace one of those lines with Illusions unless you are F2P.

>

> Illu used to be more in line with Domi before Vicious Expression was added; Illu did less dmg but was burstier and generated its own quickness and might. However, Vicious Expression introduced another +15% to both player and phant dmg (we ignore clones cuz its dmg is negligible) in domi, resulting in a total of +42.3% to player dmg and +32.3% to phant dmg (23.8%/15% previously). Illu evidently could no longer compete with its +10% player dmg, +25% phant dmg and even with its extra condi dmg, shorter shatter CDs + double F1.

>

> You can see how the Illusions traitline would’ve been used before Vicious Expression and why it’s no longer even an option now.

>

> Edit: For completion’s sake, Dueling is *roughly* 24.8%/18.2% plus ~4% on top worth of bleed (you could say 28.8%/22.2% for simplicity’s sake) with shorter sword CDs, which is important for spamming blurred frenzy/swordsman/signet (you don’t delay it as swordsman refreshes faster).

 

This what doesn't sit right with me ,there shouldn't be so much traits in DIFFERENT traitlines that buff ESPECIALLY phantasm/illusions damage etc

>Illusions: Phantasmal Force (25% max dmg for phantasms)

>Domination: Empowered illusions, Vicious Expressing (30% max dmg for phantasms-could you explain how you got 32.3% )

>Dueling: Fencer's Finesse, Sharper images (max 10% critical dmg for phantasms and decent bleeding)

>Chronomancer: Danger Time (also 10% critical dmg for phantasms)

 

Not to mention the way how some traits buff phantasms in other ways like Phantasmal fury and Haste, these traits should literally be combined and be in one traitline or something, and also domination STILL being weirdly designed in which you're forced to choose between two traits if you're running GS which buffs phantasm; Empowered Illusions & Bountiful blades.

I think chronomancer overall synergizes with dueling especially very well and illusions second, the reason why illusions can't compete anymore even with double shatter is because of chronophantasma making it so that clones take longer to spawn, maybe if you took Illusionary reversion...but nah, you have to take Danger time. I'm a person that likes "perfect synergy" so anet should just give power chrono specifically the ability to take 4th trailine LOL, but anyways this is why my fav mesmer build is or was rather condi chrono because everything synergizes almost perfectly but I haven't played it anymore since the F2 nerf.

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> I use Phantasmal Force, but only for PvE, and only for Openworld/Metas.

>

> If yu run a Chronophantasma build using Sword/Sword GS, yu are actually capable of getting a decent bit of Might using Phantasmal Swordsman and Mirror Blade when performing yur burst.

>

> Yu will also be using Mantra Of Pain for a burst of Might before performing yur burst combo which will make yur burst extremely strong with having around 20~ might stacks.

>

> The burst combo I'm accustomed to using is Mantra Channel > Illusory Leap > Phantasmal Swordsman > Flurry > Swap GS > Mirror Blade > Phantasmal Berserker and just spamming Power Spikes in between Leap and Swap.

>

> But honestly, it's just a meme.

> Power Mesmer isn't ultra hot in PvE content.

 

You get ez perma might if you take persistence of memory and spam that AI like crazy

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> I'd say duelling and illusion are even. The most effective traitline depend on the encounter design and your "role" in the team. If the boss mainly take damage while in breakbar/stuned state then go for duelling, if the fight need a constant DPS then go for illusion. That's how I see things.

 

I don't think they can be even close simply because of Phantasmal Fury making phantasms spawn with fury, they can get fury from other players around you yes but that would be very inconsistent, i don't know anything that pulses fury fast like crazy and long, if Phantasmal Haste and Fury were 2 traits in one then that would be another story, them spawning with a whole 10 secs of fury gives them more than enough time to attack with it, dueling is a must cause: sharper images, fencer's finesse and also superiority complex because it isn't only phantasms damage that matter. What has always been compared is illusions vs Domination

[Noodle Ant.1605]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> This what doesn't sit right with me ,there shouldn't be so much traits in DIFFERENT traitlines that buff ESPECIALLY phantasm/illusions damage etc

You can see how just before Vicious Expression, the traitlines were a bit more 'focused', despite having phant dmg traits in different traitlines. Domi focused on personal dmg; Illu on phants, while Duel was balanced. Now its more Domi = flat-out more dmg, Duel = 2nd best dmg line (+making sure your phants crit) and Illu = mainly for utility purposes (and chrono = broken?).

> 30% max dmg for phantasms-could you explain how you got 32.3% )

Dmg multipliers are *multiplied* and not added. If you have 2 separate 10% dmg traits, the calculation would be 1 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 1.21, not 1.2. Similarly, 1 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 1.32, not just 1.3.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> dueling is a must cause: sharper images, fencer's finesse and also superiority complex because it isn't only phantasms damage that matter. What has always been compared is illusions vs Domination

 

Dom is still a choice pick for PvE content, especially raids, because yu just lose too much damage from not taking it.

Raid/Fractal encounters usually have their targets getting perma 25 stacks of Vuln, so Dom builds running Empowered + Egotism + Vicious Expression in addition to Minor GM Fragility, is just too much damage potential to pass up.

 

It usually comes down to a toss up between Dueling and Illusions, and more often than not, Dueling wins due to Phanta Fury + Fencer's + Superiority Complex.

Especially Superiority Complex, which increases yur crit damage by a whooping 25%, and in addition to using Fencer's Finesse with a Chronophantasma'd Phantasmal Swordsman, yu can stack and maintain that Fero bonus for a decent amount of time.

 

Illusions is really only useful for Shatter builds, and they will still pick Dom anyway because Dom is simply so much damage for a Power build.

 

 

 

 

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > dueling is a must cause: sharper images, fencer's finesse and also superiority complex because it isn't only phantasms damage that matter. What has always been compared is illusions vs Domination

>

> Dom is still a choice pick for PvE content, especially raids, because yu just lose too much damage from not taking it.

> Raid/Fractal encounters usually have their targets getting perma 25 stacks of Vuln, so Dom builds running Empowered + Egotism + Vicious Expression in addition to Minor GM Fragility, is just too much damage potential to pass up.

>

> It usually comes down to a toss up between Dueling and Illusions, and more often than not, Dueling wins due to Phanta Fury + Fencer's + Superiority Complex.

> Especially Superiority Complex, which increases yur crit damage by a whooping 25%, and in addition to using Fencer's Finesse with a Chronophantasma'd Phantasmal Swordsman, yu can stack and maintain that Fero bonus for a decent amount of time.

>

> Illusions is really only useful for Shatter builds, and they will still pick Dom anyway because Dom is simply so much damage for a Power build.

>

>

>

>

 

Yeah I know dom is meta no ifs/but/maybe but i was just saying before dom reworks, i'm sure illusions was meta, and also i'm sure the Fencer bonus is permanent if you're rotating correctly, so basically we all agreeing here.

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > dueling is a must cause: sharper images, fencer's finesse and also superiority complex because it isn't only phantasms damage that matter. What has always been compared is illusions vs Domination

>

> Dom is still a choice pick for PvE content, especially raids, because yu just lose too much damage from not taking it.

> Raid/Fractal encounters usually have their targets getting perma 25 stacks of Vuln, so Dom builds running Empowered + Egotism + Vicious Expression in addition to

>

>

>

>

 

What do you think of core in fracs

[Yasai.3549]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

 

> Yeah I know dom is meta no ifs/but/maybe but i was just saying before dom reworks, i'm sure illusions was meta, and also i'm sure the Fencer bonus is permanent if you're rotating correctly, so basically we all agreeing here.

 

What I'm kinda saying is Dom is the staple, and it's always a tossup between Dueling and Illusions.

Power focused builds used to run Dom as a staple, picking Mental Anguish in the past when Vicious never existed.

 

The old pick was Empowered + Egotism + Mental Anguish.

In fact, some Power Shatter builds right now also use Mental Anguish.

 

But if the topic here is Phanta builds, then Vicious is a much better trait to aid in Phanta DPS.

 

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

 

> What do you think of core in fracs

 

Core power shatter is pretty good, but ik some special sorts of goons which will just kick yu if yu went into Fracts with core spec.

 

 

 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> Yeah I know dom is meta no ifs/but/maybe but i was just saying before dom reworks, i'm sure illusions was meta, and also i'm sure the Fencer bonus is permanent if you're rotating correctly, so basically we all agreeing here.

- Duel/illu/chrono was meta after phantasm and phantasmal might rework

- At this point, there were 2 main builds: domi gs and illu focus/whatever OH bar torch really

- Illu ate a nerf in compounding power - 3% -> 2% per stack

- Domi got egotism. Domi (gs) then benched 4k over illu

- Domi got vicious expression, not using gs with domi became popular, changes to imagined burden messed up gs and bye bye illu cuz dmg difference is way too great.

 

Ppl used to run domi/illu gs prior to vicious expression, but if you ran swordsman as main phant, it was always almost better to use duel in group content.