Sigils. And what does the word "type" mean? I need clarity!

[jenthulhu.8516]

"Sigils do not stack with any tier of the same sigil **type**."

 

On first blush I thought that this bold red text at the bottom of my sigils meant that I could not stack any configuration of minor, major, or superior sigils of any single sigil, such as a sigil of force, on a.) a single two-handed weapon or b.) a set of main and off-hand weapons.

 

But then someone told me that they thought the word "type" in that text was referring to the elements that are listed on each sigil. The three elements are: enhancement, pain, and control. The wiki contains lists of sigils that fall within each element.

 

This raised my eyebrows. So I did some looking at the wiki. There's no mention of elements in the wiki with regards to them being the "type" in the red bold text on my sigils. I looked at google, which produced an 8 year old reddit thread--which surely couldn't be right! That reddit thread says that the word "type" means that every sigil falls within one of these 5 **categories**: passive effect, stack on kill, effect on critical hit, effect on weapon swap, and effect on kill.

 

I mean, yes--those are definitely five categories of the types of sigils, but if that's the case, why don't we know about it more explicitly?

 

So I looked at one of my toons and then I looked at all of my toons and frequently I've got dual elements and/or dual (8-year-old-reddit guy's) categories. And while I could throw up my hands and say I don't really want to be a min-maxer and I'm killing mobs just fine... that's not my style. I'm curious. Words matter. They matter a lot.

 

So, let's say for example that I have a Sigil of Force and a Sigil of Concentration on my greatsword. Both of these are of the element: enhancement type AND both of these are passive (from the reddit post I mentioned). Just to be clear for those who don't know all the sigils by heart, Sigil of Force is "+5% damage" and Sigil of Concentration says "+10% boon duration." Will both of these sigils take effect when that weapon is active?

 

I've searched through the forums and couldn't find an answer to this. I've been playing GW2 for a few years and as I've gone along I've found myself learning layers and layers more of the math behind the game and how things work. But this is really down to one word and I don't know how to test for this. Or I would.

 

Does anyone know with any certainty what the word "type" is referring to here? Or am I finding complexity where there is none?

 

[Teratus.2859]

Pretty sure it means you can't use the same sigil on the same weapon/combo.

That includes lower tiers such as Masterwork and Rare's

 

I don't think it applies to the element of the sigil.

I have not noticed any restrictions like that anyway.

[Cyninja.2954]

You are overthinking this.

 

Type refers to the sigils effect or rather the base sigil. As such, the Superior Sigil of Force, which gives +5% damage bonus (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Force) will not stack with other Sigils of the same type, in this case any other Sigil of Force no matter if minor, major or superior.

 

This is explained on the wiki under Sigil interaction:

> Sigil interaction

> A character can always equip two sigils at a time (either one sigil each on a main-hand and off-hand weapon, or two sigils on a two-handed weapon). In general, the two sigils will both provide their effects independently **as long as the base sigil is different**. The exceptions to this are the attribute increasing stacking sigils: only one stack effect can be active at a time. Additionally, **sigils with the same base sigil will share cooldowns** between weapon sets.

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

 

The base sigil is the part of the sigil name which does not refer to the sigil tier (minor, major or superior).

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"jenthulhu.8516" said:

> "Sigils do not stack with any tier of the same sigil **type**."

 

Type also refers to the stat stacking type sigils. You can't have both one that grants stacks of power and one with condition damage.

 

There is also a thing involving those stat stacks when you go underwater. You need to have that sigil on an underwater weapon of the same type. Otherwise the stacks disappear.

[Vayne.8563]

The use of the word type in this context was around long before enhancement, pain and control existed in this game and have nothing to do with that. Nor does it has to do with minor, major or superior. It has to do with the basics of what the sigil does. You're right though, there should be some real clarity on stuff like this.

[jenthulhu.8516]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> The use of the word type in this context was around long before enhancement, pain and control existed in this game and have nothing to do with that. Nor does it has to do with minor, major or superior. It has to do with the basics of what the sigil does. You're right though, there should be some real clarity on stuff like this.

 

As I said in my post, I've only played this particular game for 2+ years. so I couldn't know the detail about the symbols of enhancement, pain, and control. That does provide clarity--thank you.

 

The wiki does say that you cannot pair the same sigil, i.e. a minor, major, and superior sigil of force, on the same weapon or weapon set. The wiki may not be run by Anet, but that part I buy.

 

However, > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > Type also refers to the stat stacking type sigils. You can't have both one that grants stacks of power and one with condition damage.

 

This is stated nowhere in the game that I have seen. It may be implied by the word "type," but how many aspects of gameplay are we expected to believe "type" refers to?

 

Either it refers to the base sigil--in our example that would be force: minor sigil of force, major sigil of force, and superior sigil of force. Two of these three could not be applied to a two-handed weapon or set of weapons.

 

OR it refers to the category of a stacking type of sigil. The word "type" cannot be used to mean both. We ruled out elements and these two are left.

 

So which is it?

 

[Vayne.8563]

> @"jenthulhu.8516" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > The use of the word type in this context was around long before enhancement, pain and control existed in this game and have nothing to do with that. Nor does it has to do with minor, major or superior. It has to do with the basics of what the sigil does. You're right though, there should be some real clarity on stuff like this.

>

> As I said in my post, I've only played this particular game for 2+ years. so I couldn't know the detail about the symbols of enhancement, pain, and control. That does provide clarity--thank you.

>

> The wiki does say that you cannot pair the same sigil, i.e. a minor, major, and superior sigil of force, on the same weapon or weapon set. The wiki may not be run by Anet, but that part I buy.

>

> However, > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > Type also refers to the stat stacking type sigils. You can't have both one that grants stacks of power and one with condition damage.

>

> This is stated nowhere in the game that I have seen. It may be implied by the word "type," but how many aspects of gameplay are we expected to believe "type" refers to?

>

> Either it refers to the base sigil--in our example that would be force: minor sigil of force, major sigil of force, and superior sigil of force. Two of these three could not be applied to a two-handed weapon or set of weapons.

>

> OR it refers to the category of a stacking type of sigil. The word "type" cannot be used to mean both. We ruled out elements and these two are left.

>

> So which is it?

>

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil

 

Scroll down to Sigil Categories

[jenthulhu.8516]

Okay. Well I'll refer you again to the sentence in red bold on our sigils:

"Sigils do not stack with any tier of the same sigil type."

Are there tiers in the sigil categories? No, upon contemplation and re-reading the wiki I've come to the conclusion that the word type indeed means base sigil with minor, major, or superior attributes. For example minor sigil of force, major sigil of force, or superior sigil of force. You can't combine these on a two-handed weapon or on a weapon set.

 

There is one place where the categories come into play and that is with stacking sigils. You cannot have two active stacking sigils at one time.

 

So, I'm done thinking about this. I'm just gonna play the game. I really hate ambiguity. Thank you to all who participated.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"jenthulhu.8516" said:

> "Sigils do not stack with any tier of the same sigil **type**."

 

Meaning you can't use another of that Sigil on the same weapon set, whether it's the Minor, Major and Superior version. Second meaning: see last example under "Examples" behind the link I posted below.

 

> On first blush I thought that this bold red text at the bottom of my sigils meant that I could not stack any configuration of minor, major, or superior sigils of any single sigil, such as a sigil of force, on a.) a single two-handed weapon or b.) a set of main and off-hand weapons.

 

Exactly, plus:

 

> Does anyone know with any certainty what the word "type" is referring to here? Or am I finding complexity where there is none?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Sigil_interaction

[Linken.6345]

> @"jenthulhu.8516" said:

> Okay. Well I'll refer you again to the sentence in red bold on our sigils:

> "Sigils do not stack with any tier of the same sigil type."

> Are there tiers in the sigil categories? No, upon contemplation and re-reading the wiki I've come to the conclusion that the word type indeed means base sigil with minor, major, or superior attributes. For example minor sigil of force, major sigil of force, or superior sigil of force. You can't combine these on a two-handed weapon or on a weapon set.

>

> There is one place where the categories come into play and that is with stacking sigils. You cannot have two active stacking sigils at one time.

>

> So, I'm done thinking about this. I'm just gonna play the game. I really hate ambiguity. Thank you to all who participated.

 

So minor, major and superior aint 3 tiers?

News to me that.

[jenthulhu.8516]

Linken.6345 I think you misunderstood me. I was saying exactly THAT. That the tiers referred to in the text are **minor, major, and superior**.

 

NOT the categories the other person in this thread (and the reddit thread I mentioned in my OP) was referring to. I.e. "the word "type" means that every sigil falls within one of these 5 categories: passive effect, stack on kill, effect on critical hit, effect on weapon swap, and effect on kill."

 

Ashantara. 8731 I read the wiki only about three times before posting my question. I felt that even after reading carefully there was still some ambiguity about my very specific question. I would not have posted without doing the research first. In fact, I mention my research in my OP. There is still not perfect clarity on this topic, but I think after discussing it, we've gleaned what Anet intended with those words.

 

thanks folks