DLSS on Guild Wars 2

[trixantea.1230]

So, the Nvidia RTX gpu line-up has a new interesting feature called DLSS that makes the game run at a lower resolution but without losing image quality which means MOAR FPS!!

 

I'm not sure if this will require the game to have DX12 but I hope that adds DLSS to the game.

[Kanok.3027]

Not only would it require GW2 to have it's graphics engine/api to be rewritten to DX12 (which won't happen), but then they'd have to somehow jerry-rig the engine to support DLSS, which would be a monumental task to add to a very old MMORPG. On top of that, it probably wouldn't run very well on other hardware outside of NVIDIA's video cards and this game was meant to be run with, well, average hardware. You'd have better luck trying to convince them to, somehow, convert the full game to a mobile platform. With the resources they have now, plus people barely being able to get their hands on DLSS-capable cards due to how the market has been destroyed by scalper bots and low supply, the interest in GW2 running with DLSS is going to be less than the interest for GW2 on Linux, which is VERY niche as is.

 

tl:dr: While a nice idea to think about, it's not even remotely feasible to add DLSS to the game, let alone it be worth it for people since most players aren't running computers with graphics cards that powerful anyway.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Kanok.3027" said:

> Not only would it require GW2 to have it's graphics engine/api to be rewritten to DX12 (which won't happen), but then they'd have to somehow jerry-rig the engine to support DLSS, which would be a monumental task to add to a very old MMORPG.

I'm not an engine coder but I am pretty sure the engine doesnt have to be "rewritten to DX12" in order to *technically* be DX12 since DX12 is backwards compatible with DX9 afaik and you could add DX12 features specifically (just look at the fan made DX12 wrapper running on top of the DX9 engine) but Anet hasnt said a peep about any engine upgrades so we'll probably never see it.

 

Considering the time its taken them to fix the missing tier 3 3x3x5 meter wall on DBL - 5 years and counting now I think - if that is any indication it would take them maybe 300-350 years to implement DX12. Or less than 24h if some PvEr had figured out how to abuse a raid boss with the wall.

[phokus.8934]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > Not only would it require GW2 to have it's graphics engine/api to be rewritten to DX12 (which won't happen), but then they'd have to somehow jerry-rig the engine to support DLSS, which would be a monumental task to add to a very old MMORPG.

> I'm not an engine coder but I am pretty sure the engine doesnt have to be "rewritten to DX12" in order to *technically* be DX12 since DX12 is backwards compatible with DX9 afaik and you could add DX12 features specifically (just look at the fan made DX12 wrapper running on top of the DX9 engine) but Anet hasnt said a peep about any engine upgrades so we'll probably never see it.

>

> Considering the time its taken them to fix the missing tier 3 3x3x5 meter wall on DBL - 5 years and counting now I think - if that is any indication it would take them maybe 300-350 years to implement DX12. Or less than 24h if some PvEr had figured out how to abuse a raid boss with the wall.

You’d have to rewrite quite a bit especially the rendering state really changes from 9-11/12.

 

The only way I can see them doing anything with dx12 is with a brand new game but I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Kanok.3027" said:

> this game was meant to be run with, well, average hardware.

 

It's not doing a great job at that. :tongue:

Especially since, when it came out, "average hardware" was way lower than today's standards.

Today's low hardware should run GW2 perfectly because of how old the game is.

 

Though, they're doing something at least, i couldn't play WvW on anything except ultra low settings and even then it had 15fps.

Now i can play comfortably in medium which is nice. Since i didn't do anything with my hardware, they must have done something to optimise it, and i applaud that. Hopefully they continue to fix the performance issues. It's about time!

[Kanok.3027]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> It's not doing a great job at that. :tongue:

> Especially since, when it came out, "average hardware" was way lower than today's standards.

> Today's low hardware should run GW2 perfectly because of how old the game is.

 

Well, you're right about that, but at the same time, they've been adding more things to the game that clogs the screen and more complex models that now requires more modern hardware. When it was released, it was good for the hardware at the time, but as time progresses, it needs more. And sadly, due to how "not very optimized" it is, it will always run like poopoo.

 

 

[Infusion.7149]

Doesn't take "deep learning" to know that the flashy backpacks that somehow ignore model limit exacerbate the situation.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > It's not doing a great job at that. :tongue:

> > Especially since, when it came out, "average hardware" was way lower than today's standards.

> > Today's low hardware should run GW2 perfectly because of how old the game is.

>

> Well, you're right about that, but at the same time, they've been adding more things to the game that clogs the screen and more complex models that now requires more modern hardware. When it was released, it was good for the hardware at the time, but as time progresses, it needs more. And sadly, due to how "not very optimized" it is, it will always run like poopoo.

>

>

 

One could argue that they needed to constantly optimise the game with new additions that they knew would impact the performance then...

I understand that MMOs evolve and need better hardware at some point, but personally, i think GW2, if optimised, would run on even the lowest specs of today.

Like i said in my example. I used to be forced to run WvW in lowest quality, all low and subsample, and it still ran like kitten. With whatever they did recently, i can run it on medium, with higher FPS than before. So it's clearly all about optimisation, and if they push the optimisation fruther, i think they can achieve stable FPS at 60+ fps even on low hardware. It's not like the game is demanding that much, it's more that it doesn't use resources efficiently and like people say, mostly relies on CPU power which is never a good idea for 3D games, CPU's aren't meant for rendering, they're meant for random processes, while GPUs are meant for repetitive tasks like rendering.

 

Now, the only issue is, how much effort it would take to optimise it, how much engine changes would be needed or not, but whatever the effort required is, i think they should do it nonetheless because if they plan on releasing it on steam, in its current state all it's going to do is have a negative review as tons of people thumbs down it because they can't play it properly. And that would very much damage the game. Also, i think that server lag somehow plays a role in FPS in the game, as i've seen the game stutter when lagging. Not sure though.

 

Here's hoping they fix the performance because it's a great game, and it would be a shame for someone to not play it because of the horrible performance. Especially because you can't take in new players that way. And having better performance across different hardware levels means more players that play the game and potentially spend their money on gems.

[Nephalem.8921]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > > Not only would it require GW2 to have it's graphics engine/api to be rewritten to DX12 (which won't happen), but then they'd have to somehow jerry-rig the engine to support DLSS, which would be a monumental task to add to a very old MMORPG.

> > I'm not an engine coder but I am pretty sure the engine doesnt have to be "rewritten to DX12" in order to *technically* be DX12 since DX12 is backwards compatible with DX9 afaik and you could add DX12 features specifically (just look at the fan made DX12 wrapper running on top of the DX9 engine) but Anet hasnt said a peep about any engine upgrades so we'll probably never see it.

> >

> > Considering the time its taken them to fix the missing tier 3 3x3x5 meter wall on DBL - 5 years and counting now I think - if that is any indication it would take them maybe 300-350 years to implement DX12. Or less than 24h if some PvEr had figured out how to abuse a raid boss with the wall.

> You’d have to rewrite quite a bit especially the rendering state really changes from 9-11/12.

>

> The only way I can see them doing anything with dx12 is with a brand new game but I’m not holding my breath.

>

 

WoW updated their engine from dx9 to 11 to 12. FF from 9 to 11. Poe updated from dx9 to dx11 to vulkan. Of course its possible if you dont fire or bully every engine dev out of the company.

Dx9 doesnt even support low level optimisation afaik. That api is 18years old and outdated. They dont have to rewrite the entire engine to support technology from this century. It probably wont happen and it will just die soon. 15-20fps in zergs is just not fun. Upgrading hardware into the 1-2k range doesnt even add much.

[Zephire.8049]

> @"Nephalem.8921" said:

> > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Kanok.3027" said:

> > > > Not only would it require GW2 to have it's graphics engine/api to be rewritten to DX12 (which won't happen), but then they'd have to somehow jerry-rig the engine to support DLSS, which would be a monumental task to add to a very old MMORPG.

> > > I'm not an engine coder but I am pretty sure the engine doesnt have to be "rewritten to DX12" in order to *technically* be DX12 since DX12 is backwards compatible with DX9 afaik and you could add DX12 features specifically (just look at the fan made DX12 wrapper running on top of the DX9 engine) but Anet hasnt said a peep about any engine upgrades so we'll probably never see it.

> > >

> > > Considering the time its taken them to fix the missing tier 3 3x3x5 meter wall on DBL - 5 years and counting now I think - if that is any indication it would take them maybe 300-350 years to implement DX12. Or less than 24h if some PvEr had figured out how to abuse a raid boss with the wall.

> > You’d have to rewrite quite a bit especially the rendering state really changes from 9-11/12.

> >

> > The only way I can see them doing anything with dx12 is with a brand new game but I’m not holding my breath.

> >

>

> WoW updated their engine from dx9 to 11 to 12. FF from 9 to 11. Poe updated from dx9 to dx11 to vulkan. Of course its possible if you dont fire or bully every engine dev out of the company.

> Dx9 doesnt even support low level optimisation afaik. That api is 18years old and outdated. They dont have to rewrite the entire engine to support technology from this century. It probably wont happen and it will just die soon. 15-20fps in zergs is just not fun. Upgrading hardware into the 1-2k range doesnt even add much.

 

It should be noted that WoW had more than enough money and multiple other popular games that brought in money so they could afford the resources needed to update the graphics, Final Fantasy XIV uses an engine that Square Enix also uses on other Final Fantasy games so they have a vested interest in keep it up to date plus the finances to do so (also the time between 1.0 and 2.0 to change things without impacting players), and Path of Exile had its engine built from scratch specifically for PoE and Path of Exile 2 is happening in part because it lets the developer better change and update the engine on multiple fronts.

 

Both FFXIV's and PoE's engines are about 8-10 years younger than GW2's, which gives them that many years in coding and tech improvements to make upgrading them easier and learning from mistakes of the previous generation of MMOs. WoW uses (or used?) a modified Warcraft 3 engine putting it at a bit older than GW2's engine but not by as much as the other two are younger.

 

This isn't to say that GW2 doesn't need an engine overhaul (it does, badly) just that the circumstances are different both in the studio and what the engine was designed to do. The GW2 engine is already doing things it wasn't ever meant to do (and the indications are that the GW1 engine was not designed to be future-proof/make updates easy) and there's been enough turnover now that the people who know what the original engine was like are few and far between so touching that code risky and we already know there are parts of the code that developers aren't allowed to touch—at all—because of the chaos it would cause both for players and devs.

 

So it really comes down to whether a new engine will come out in an expansion, a game revival patch, or GW3 to wipe the code clean. It would honestly be surprising if a graphic update came out without a new engine given how messy the code is and how devs have said both would mean about the same amount of work for them.