Discord / Hidden Tags / Closed Squads

[Shroud.2307]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> T2 NA. This is not a tier for inexperienced zergs, they will be annihilated here really fast.

 

There is no difference between tiers other than the willingness to dodge when effort is involved. T1 and 2 start avoiding fights sooner than T3 or 4 because in higher tiers they care more about maintaining a lead than fighting to earn it.

If anything what you say is the opposite of the truth. Because higher tiers break more easily than lower and is the reason many servers get burnt out in higher tiers- it's boring when the enemy won't engage you.

 

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> Hidden tags and closed squads just help the game mode die faster.

 

It is an accumulative effect of changes to WvW over time. As I've stated in various threads in the past- small scale/solo game play is much more difficult today than it was some years ago because passive objective defense has become so strong, and because of Mounts.

Commanding a small group of players that refuse to cooperate just doesn't work unless you have enough numbers to steam roll everything. This is why closed/hidden tags exist- they _need_ the players in their squad to be experienced and willing to cooperate if they want to succeed in what they're setting out to do. Time is of the essence, if people are taking 10 minutes to build a Catapult or standing in Watch Tower range it can get that group wiped pretty quickly.

 

The entitlement of the average player is unending when it comes to WvW.

Entertain me or I leave.

If we fail, it's your fault and not mine.

Hidden squads ruin my fun because I don't agree with how they're playing.

If people don't agree with how I play they're toxic.

I won't do what you ask of me but I will demand you do what I ask of you.

 

Public zergs work because they are large, not because they let everyone play how they want. Closed squads work because everyone is willing to do what they're asked and to put in the extra effort if it means the group will be more efficient. Closed/hidden squads don't hurt WvW - it compounds with the difficulty of doing things without a group and players refusing to learn or meet the demands of a commander

 

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

 

> hah yeah i see that often in NA. I agree. I paid for the game and will play how i like and on whatever map i want. When i call them out in team chat they shut up pretty quick.

 

You don't care enough to win a match or fights if you don't care enough to work with your teammates.

 

And if indeed you don't care, then don't be the first to criticize your server/a commander/guild for its failures.

[Baldrick.8967]

>. Closed/hidden squads don't hurt WvW - it compounds with the difficulty of doing things without a group and players refusing to learn or meet the demands of a commander

 

Yes, they do. If new players can't see anyone on the map or anything much happening they are less likely to stick around, and over time that damages wvw.

 

Of course new players should be encouraged to join TS, play a wanted class, etc etc but frequently this is communicated as 'get in TS or GTFO' or 'use this build/class or you won't get in the squad'.

 

It's pretty much down to die-hards and a few infrequent visitors now. When I log on my friends list looks like a desert.

 

 

[Novahh.7426]

I think I've seen this Chrono Commander before.

[Henrik.7560]

I find it hilarious people think their bearbow spirit rangers actually contribute to wvw, especially when they don't join coms. You realize why people enforce discord, don't you? It's so that a group with limitted numbers can coordinate synergized movements or damage spikes to take down an opposing threatening group.

Yes, if you want to follow a Sea of Sorrows ocx commander, you don't need discord to follow 60 people taking empty towers from 3 defenders. In real hours like NA prime or SEA there's guild groups and blobs to fight, and commanders that enforce discord usually do so because they want to fight, not run around on the red bl smacking doors. What good are you in a fight if you can't hear the call for fake push, go left, spike now, etc? Nothing. You will just die on inc and not only that, kill teammates trying to res you or waste their cooldowns, you are better off not in the squad. Maybe if you're experienced enough on a weaver/rev then you can kinda do your own thing and follow without coms but those bearbow/spirit rangers complaining that people kick them or enforce discord... you need to realize its because you are a negative contribution for playing a bad build but not putting in effort to join the coms.

 

I don't understand why this shocks people, if you go into a PvE raid on a soldier ele or a magi thief you will get kicked, or if you just simply refuse to join coms when you aren't experienced, its the same kinda thing in WvW fight-based groups. Stop being so selfish and run something useful and join coms if you want to be let into fight groups. If you don't care for fights, tag up on the red BL on your spirit ranger and go enjoy yourself there.

[GameTheory.8059]

Commanders do not owe you guys anything, guilds do not owe you anything. This is a game and people will play it in a way they want to (taking your attitude and applying it to the other side).

 

I recently came back to the game and I am overwhelmed by the sense of entitlement and attitude of some players.

 

You want me to create content for you? Okay, I will pin up and try my best. You want me to beat a map queue that has 40 in comms? You want me to paper one of the maps during prime time? Well, I will ask you to be more team oriented.

 

 

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"GameTheory.8059" said:

> Commanders do not owe you guys anything, guilds do not owe you anything. This is a game and people will play it in a way they want to (taking your attitude and applying it to the other side).

>

> I recently came back to the game and I am overwhelmed by the sense of entitlement and attitude of some players.

>

> You want me to create content for you? Okay, I will pin up and try my best. You want me to beat a map queue that has 40 in comms? You want me to paper one of the maps during prime time? Well, I will ask you to be more team oriented.

>

>

>

>

 

Started happening a lot more when they introduced GoB.

I wonder why.

 

You see it already; they're saying that the other modes are neglected in favor of WvW in other subsections.

Something which if we are to be objective about, is just strictly untrue for the history of the game.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Henrik.7560" said:

> I find it hilarious people think their bearbow spirit rangers actually contribute to wvw, especially when they don't join coms. You realize why people enforce discord, don't you? It's so that a group with limitted numbers can coordinate synergized movements or damage spikes to take down an opposing threatening group.

> Yes, if you want to follow a Sea of Sorrows ocx commander, you don't need discord to follow 60 people taking empty towers from 3 defenders. In real hours like NA prime or SEA there's guild groups and blobs to fight, and commanders that enforce discord usually do so because they want to fight, not run around on the red bl smacking doors. What good are you in a fight if you can't hear the call for fake push, go left, spike now, etc? Nothing. You will just die on inc and not only that, kill teammates trying to res you or waste their cooldowns, you are better off not in the squad. Maybe if you're experienced enough on a weaver/rev then you can kinda do your own thing and follow without coms but those bearbow/spirit rangers complaining that people kick them or enforce discord... you need to realize its because you are a negative contribution for playing a bad build but not putting in effort to join the coms.

>

> I don't understand why this shocks people, if you go into a PvE raid on a soldier ele or a magi thief you will get kicked, or if you just simply refuse to join coms when you aren't experienced, its the same kinda thing in WvW fight-based groups. Stop being so selfish and run something useful and join coms if you want to be let into fight groups. If you don't care for fights, tag up on the red BL on your spirit ranger and go enjoy yourself there.

 

Empty towers? Lol. Bana is a small guild? about 40 members running around WvW is small, I guess. They just kept dying from a pug squad of only about 30 members most of the times. You think it's a big squad because you lost. It's ok. Most people have that kind of mindset. I commanded in Devona's Rest along with Kyros Guild when it was still active. I'm no newbie in WvW and PvP. I got my dragon finisher in 2015 before pvp rank has not been buffed yet. I can play any class, be it meta or non-meta. Bad players are bad no matter what class or build they play.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> I'm no newbie in WvW and PvP. I got my dragon finisher in 2016 before pvp rank has not been buffed yet. I can play any class, be it meta or non-meta. Bad players are bad no matter what class or build they play.

 

You sure talk like a newbie for claiming not to be one.

 

Your rank, your kills, and your general stats mean little. They are indicative of your experience, not your skill.

 

What guild do you rep or command now? I'd like to know so I can show you the ways you're wrong in the future.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > I'm no newbie in WvW and PvP. I got my dragon finisher in 2016 before pvp rank has not been buffed yet. I can play any class, be it meta or non-meta. Bad players are bad no matter what class or build they play.

>

> You sure talk like a newbie for claiming not to be one.

>

> Your rank, your kills, and your general stats mean little. They are indicative of your experience, not your skill.

>

> What guild do you rep or command now? I'd like to know so I can show you the ways you're wrong in the future.

 

Yeah right. Tell me how to mouse-click my skills and do better. Dude, just stfu. You guys are making this about me when it's not. You guys are just a bunch of forum warriors and I haven't even heard of any of you IG. Such diehards.

 

PS. It was fun knocking you guys off to T4 last week and now you're being wrecked by my former server. Such skills.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > > I'm no newbie in WvW and PvP. I got my dragon finisher in 2016 before pvp rank has not been buffed yet. I can play any class, be it meta or non-meta. Bad players are bad no matter what class or build they play.

> >

> > You sure talk like a newbie for claiming not to be one.

> >

> > Your rank, your kills, and your general stats mean little. They are indicative of your experience, not your skill.

> >

> > What guild do you rep or command now? I'd like to know so I can show you the ways you're wrong in the future.

>

> Yeah right. Tell me how to mouse-click my skills and do better. Dude, just kitten. You guys are making this about me when it's not. You guys are just a bunch of forum warriors and I haven't even heard of any of you IG. Such diehards.

>

> PS. It was fun knocking you guys off to T4 last week and now you're being wrecked by my former server. Such skills.

 

Who's "you guys"? It's only me that's calling you out after you condescended about the greatness of your server and your experience.

 

I haven't heard of you either, so... Feeling's mutual I guess.

 


Oh yes, we're being wrecked so hard by the big bad PPT. It's weird how CD and DH have several active guilds running nightly, often attached at the hip, and yet they can't save their KDR. The only thing carrying them to victory are map Q's at 5AM EST that ktrain unopposed, because when there are even half the numbers in resistance they need a few dozen tries to capture anything.

 

It's Christmas for most of North America by the way. Populations are going to be particularly volatile for a while. I don't doubt we'll stay lower in tiers, but I'd try not to be too proud of "knocking us off" considering the circumstances.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > > @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > > > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > > > I'm no newbie in WvW and PvP. I got my dragon finisher in 2016 before pvp rank has not been buffed yet. I can play any class, be it meta or non-meta. Bad players are bad no matter what class or build they play.

> > >

> > > You sure talk like a newbie for claiming not to be one.

> > >

> > > Your rank, your kills, and your general stats mean little. They are indicative of your experience, not your skill.

> > >

> > > What guild do you rep or command now? I'd like to know so I can show you the ways you're wrong in the future.

> >

> > Yeah right. Tell me how to mouse-click my skills and do better. Dude, just kitten. You guys are making this about me when it's not. You guys are just a bunch of forum warriors and I haven't even heard of any of you IG. Such diehards.

> >

> > PS. It was fun knocking you guys off to T4 last week and now you're being wrecked by my former server. Such skills.

>

> Who's "you guys"? It's only me that's calling you out after you condescended about the greatness of your server and your experience.

>

> I haven't heard of you either, so... Feeling's mutual I guess.

>

> 

> Oh yes, we're being wrecked so hard by the big bad PPT. It's weird how CD and DH have several active guilds running nightly, often attached at the hip, and yet they can't save their KDR. The only thing carrying them to victory are map Q's at 5AM EST that ktrain unopposed, because when there are even half the numbers in resistance they need a few dozen tries to capture anything.

>

> It's Christmas for most of North America by the way. Populations are going to be particularly volatile for a while. I don't doubt we'll stay lower in tiers, but I'd try not to be too proud of "knocking us off" considering the circumstances.

 

Yeah right and so you think the upcoming holiday only applies to your server. The thing is you are now on T4 and still losing . Any opinion you give out about you not winning is purely insubstantial.

 

Have you ever been to SoS? Like legit transferred here or to their linked server? Guilds here are welcoming and friendly to WvW'ers, that's why most people transfer to their relinked server to fight with them. There is actually a commander here that gives out warning to members who display bad manners like throwing siege to a dead enemy or jumping repetitively on their dead body. Have fun being stuck to lower tier for being so exclusive while enemy rangers kill your necros like there's no tomorrow. Lol

 

Off-topic: Say hi to Dark Jean for me if she still commands for Devona's Rest. It was a lot of fun being one of her co-commanders before with her guild.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

**"about 40 members running around WvW is small, I guess. They just kept dying from a pug squad of only about 30 members most of the times. You think it's a big squad because you lost. "** @"PrinceValentine.9320" see, that's what i consider even equal numbers. i'd wish to have that more often. only 10 more at largescale xD we have to ram blobs of 50 and more with -20 often.

 

@"Shroud.2307" has a/the point here; kill/death ratio shows who really dominates the matchup. the ppt score means absolutely nothing, outside of that you have by far the highest numbers.

 

i mean, one may feel u "win" bc the ppt ticks highest, but if ur group loses every real fighting situation, that only shows that the system is a bit weird there, and the population not always correctly distributed.

 

@"Spartacus.3192" if u run pug builds at least, u rarely waste a map space anyways. just for example. i think 5 ppl squads are a bit complicated, i mean u do ppt things at least and don't waste much space. but u cannot effectively push way larger groups, that cap there is reached quite fast usually.

 

most of these that i saw sofar just tried to get some attention but melted at ~10-12 attackers, even only randoms. and meanwhile camped camps and fished for ganks, idk.

 

20 ppl groups are a legit size however yet. can be effective, but need a opentag to lead the pugs into war, so they can use the flanks for strong pushes. my guild usually ran at that size, and we effectively destroyed blobs of 50 people, using the opentags as "meat shields" :9

 

by the way... afaik u can have a f2p account, once lv60 u can enter Wvw. sooo u technically did not need to pay if u only play core classes.

 

@"Scribbin.2307" sarcasm?

 

also good comments @"subversiontwo.7501" ... should explain much for the less Wvw-largescale proofed players. (apparently years don't generate insight for other people)

 

i personally just dislike the random guild tags floating around. 40 players, 35 different guild tags often. groups would be so much more efficient if Guilds would mean more. how is this game called again? ah yeah, Guild Wars 2. ikr, the lore reason is a bit off this, but it still talked about GUILDS fighting, not a billion of standalone heroes.

 

that's what alliances could have changed. more focus to GUILDS. not to thief/ranger rambokittens.

 

[Sinfullysweet.4517]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> Its not hard to open discord app and just listen. I rarely speak in discord because "reasons" but i can listen to what the tag wants when he calls for sneak gyro or positioning changes etc. Seriously how can anyone think its such an inconvenience

 

I only have myself to speak for. Discord #1 chomps through my data at an unholy rate. #2 Running it is basically useless cause I am hard of hearing (old). That’s why I still use mapchat and instead of being part of the fight I scout calling out numbers, guild, location, havoc/blob/whole kit and kaboodle of a server, siege and wall/gate percentages. (Yes as a permastealth thief it’s the best class to scout, and no I will avoid any fight possible)

 

That way I help the way I can and throw a disable or two out to grant the big groups time. But the kicker is, I never will get actually close to our guys so I don’t snatch a boon or mess up a stealth push. Sometimes I get invited to the squad and get that delicious shared participation but I never pitch a fit if I don’t get it.

 

Work with what you have and don’t worry about the rest. Also I do my callouts in /m if I know we have a big enough force on the map or /t if I know we have forces elsewhere. Helps folks realize the game isn’t dead.

[Talindra.4958]

dont have a problem with that.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> Yeah right and so you think the upcoming holiday only applies to your server.

 

No, I said it's Christmas for many people and that will affect activity in GW2.

 

> The thing is you are now on T4 and still losing . Any opinion you give out about you not winning is purely insubstantial.

 

The difference between higher PPT and higher KDR is that you can't farm kills when no one's online.

 

> Have you ever been to SoS?

 

I have, yes. The only servers on NA I haven't been on before are; BG, TC, and HOD. On EU I've also been on; Deso, WSR, FSP, UW, SFR, and Vabbi.

Although I haven't transferred from Mag for a long time, I've been to a lot of servers over the years. I like to meet new players, experience other communities, and learn new things. Of the 7 years and many hours I've been a WvW main, Mag is the one that has always felt different to me, and why I call it home.

 

> Guilds here are welcoming and friendly to WvW'ers, that's why most people transfer to their relinked server to fight with them. There is actually a commander here that gives out warning to members who display bad manners like throwing siege to a dead enemy or jumping repetitively on their dead body.

 

That's good. The carebears need some where to go, and we don't want them.

 

> Have fun being stuck to lower tier for being so exclusive while enemy rangers kill your necros like there's no tomorrow. Lol

 

I find it funny that you claim any server could possibly have more Longbow Rangers than Mag. The server is 99.9% pugs, it's amazing we manage to pull the kind of KDR we do every single week despite always being a disorganized mess with zergs comprised of 50% Rangers.

 

Mag is a dumpster fire of trolls and has-beens, but I never had a fraction of the fun on any other server. I'll take being locked in T4 with Mag over PPTing gates on SOS any day, thanks.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> @"Shroud.2307" has a/the point here; kill/death ratio shows who really dominates the matchup. the ppt score means absolutely nothing, outside of that you have by far the highest numbers.

Given that Maguuma is the only world in that list thats full, thats a kind of funny statement.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> > @"Shroud.2307" has a/the point here; kill/death ratio shows who really dominates the matchup. the ppt score means absolutely nothing, outside of that you have by far the highest numbers.

> Given that Maguuma is the only world in that list thats full, thats a kind of funny statement.

 


 

Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying Mag is the only server that's been mentioned here that's full? Because this says otherwise.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Shroud.2307" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> > > @"Shroud.2307" has a/the point here; kill/death ratio shows who really dominates the matchup. the ppt score means absolutely nothing, outside of that you have by far the highest numbers.

> > Given that Maguuma is the only world in that list thats full, thats a kind of funny statement.

>

> 

>

> Am I misunderstanding you or are you saying Mag is the only server that's been mentioned here that's full? Because this says otherwise.

In the gw2stats matchup picture posted in addition to maguuma there was devonas rest, darkhaven, borlis pass, crystal desert and northern shiverpeaks. Maguuma is the only one of these that is full. Do you disagree? It wasnt you that I quoted, but kami claiming KDR shows who dominates and PPT only indicate who have the biggest numbers, as if fighting and getting points is somehow mutually exclusive and unrelated to the population.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> In the gw2stats matchup picture posted in addition to maguuma there was devonas rest, darkhaven, borlis pass, crystal desert and northern shiverpeaks. Maguuma is the only one of these that is full. Do you disagree? It wasnt you that I quoted, but kami claiming KDR shows who dominates and PPT only indicate who have the biggest numbers, as if fighting and getting points is somehow mutually exclusive and unrelated to the population.

 

Ah, I misunderstood then, yes.

[TwoGhosts.6790]

Open tags are the oxygen of WvW.

 

But invisible tags are not the death of it. It's dying anyway.

 

Those people who prefer to run closed and invisible are hardly likely to want to be an open tag anyway.

 

You may as well flame every player who never tags open.

 

Instead of b*tching about how other people prefer to play, maybe try being the change you want to see in the WvW.

[Strider Pj.2193]

On topic: I can see the OPs point on one level if you have a server that never has open tags. But I would not begrudge those commanders that want to run closed with their guilds.

 

As I’ve said elsewhere, ask. Some will welcome you in if your flexible. Others will say no, but normally appreciate the fact that you respected their autonomy.

 

But this thread is interesting to me: We have an OP that stated their thoughts, then gone. No further input, no further discussion.

 

Of course, some of us are ‘forum warriors’ so we tend to comment ‘too much’ but there have been a proliferation of these types of threads. (An OP then nothing)

 

And I wonder why.. (well, I don’t truly wonder but saying what I really think will get actioned)

 

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> > @"Shroud.2307" has a/the point here; kill/death ratio shows who really dominates the matchup. the ppt score means absolutely nothing, outside of that you have by far the highest numbers.

> Given that Maguuma is the only world in that list thats full, thats a kind of funny statement.

look at the stats, that whole thing alike is only possible in that very way. a sever beeing full only means high activity, did u still not hear that?

 

its kinda the same as EU t3 atm... just that we been doing a ton of hours to fix the ppt, still fighting most of the times in undernumbers. that's not really fun at all, but it's also not fun to never have any waypoints anywhere.

two medium servers can easily have effectively more activity than a full + medium one. especially since also enough very casual players are around, who just do random things. some people also have speculations of farm-bots or spacewaster alts, idk

 

u really only need to spot the kill/death numbers to realize how much people play on a server. guess u haven't ever been on unlinked one, bc u still can have the best kdR there despite beeing far off in ppt.

 

this activity counting system works even that way, that a server can stay full when a small zerg of players from a guild transfers.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"GameTheory.8059" said:

> > Commanders do not owe you guys anything, guilds do not owe you anything. This is a game and people will play it in a way they want to (taking your attitude and applying it to the other side).

> >

> > I recently came back to the game and I am overwhelmed by the sense of entitlement and attitude of some players.

> >

> > You want me to create content for you? Okay, I will pin up and try my best. You want me to beat a map queue that has 40 in comms? You want me to paper one of the maps during prime time? Well, I will ask you to be more team oriented.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Started happening a lot more when they introduced GoB.

> I wonder why.

>

> You see it already; they're saying that the other modes are neglected in favor of WvW in other subsections.

> Something which if we are to be objective about, is just strictly untrue for the history of the game.

 

LOL, i LOVE GoB discussions!

 

It's always like "WvW has it all, why do i have to do WvW for my GoB legendary, it's so unfair!!!".

And we're just like, dude, map completion, gold farm, mats, crafting, literally everything we have to do for our stuff is in PvE. Dafuq?

 

PvE neglected in favor of WvW!!!

You made my day hahahhaa!!! :smiley: :sweat_smile:

But you're right, people do think that, and it's objectively wrong.

 

I just found out that you can't get T6 mats trophy shipments from any of the reward tracks. You can get all other volatile magic shipments but not trophy shipments.

You need mats for WvW legendary armor and trinkets.

Totally fair! 10/10 Anet!

[XerMeLL.6042]

> @"Sealamin.6549" said:

> I have been playing WvW for around 8 Years and WvW is on a terrible down slide for the worse. More and more I am seeing hidden tags and closed squads with regular players unable to join unless they use Discord. I understand the need to use voice comms and have even owned and managed a TS server for WvW but this was for Guild battles and Fun nights, the server was there if people wanted to use it. I have seen far better commanders in the past than current ones and they used no voice coms and they earned the respect and following of other players by their commanding skills and success in battles. Forcing players to use Discord in normal game play like EB for instance or they can't join a squad points clearly to one person dominating the game for his own satisfaction , I mean it's not hard for serious players to follow a badge and support the squad and have fun. Using voice coms in a guild most definately helps with a better gaming experiance in WvW but enforcing a guild enviorment on players who just want to play openly on a public server you take the fun out of it and will eventualy kill the Server.

 

this is an MMORPG, you cant force people if they dont want to play with you. i play roaming/solo, i join community tags, and guild tags, if there are certain conditions like in comms and you dont like that then dont.

[Mil.3562]

Nowadays WvW tags run closed squads because they only want and need meta classes, they need voice comm, they need numbers and still half the time they get wiped. Before, WvW Commanders ran open squads, invite anyone that ran next to them, no need for voice comm and still they win encounters most of the time.

 

Notice the difference? Real Commanders vs just tags.