Why can mesmers insta-down people?

[Kirin.7306]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

>

> both need to be seriously addressed

> nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

 

I would love the thief to go and assassin to take its place.

[MUDse.7623]

 

> > @"K THEN.5162" said:

> > Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

> > **Necro:** Reaper's Protection (same reason as above), Unholy Sanctuary

>

> No reaper or scourge is running the Death Magic trait line though so that isn't really that useful in terms of advice.

>

 

this is not correct since i play deadeye alot currently its amazing to see so many people with that autoshroud trait, same goes for soulbeasts with the trait that will when takin lethal damage get them out of their form and heal a bit. i feel like its every 3rd or 4th nekro that runs that trait and its in death magic dont know the name atm tho - i also did think nobody is running it before..

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > > @VaaCrow.3076 said:

> > > this whole thread is literally just one salty player on a nerf crusade vs mesmer, because he cannot beat them in fights. he proclaims the game dead/dying too.

> > >

> > > Ok please stop with hyperbole nonsence, either quit game or git gud burnfall. ty.

> >

> > well he is kind of right many many MANY players (including several of my friends) have already quit because of terrible balance & imbalanced classes & that is the reason why gw2 is so unpopular & failed as a competitive game... it really is on it's dying breath.

> >

> > No twitch coverage no nothing only pve scripted kitten

>

> Currently, reports from...pretty much everwhere point to GW2 being in the top 3 of MMO's in terms of population. But if that's how you feel, maybe it's time you left? Surely you shouldn't continue spending your time on something you think to be a failure?

 

just look at twitch.tv where do you find gw2 ?? if it was that popular it would have been in top ~10 games ... its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down because its not good enough & people know it.

 

 

as i type this comment decided to see just for luls at which place it is currently ... its @ 80 ...not even top 20 with grand total of 1000 people ... what a whooping popularity... so sad its pathetic.

 

& honestly since most of my friends already left i also enter like once a week since this november ... its pretty dead yes.

 

It's quite the shame this game had so much potential but its own devs buried it.

 

 

[Juidodin.5829]

> @"K THEN.5162" said:

> Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

>

> Those being:

> **Ranger**: Stoneform, Protective Ward

 

did you read ops post ? you can only counter what you can see, and concerning lesser stoneform, its buggy as hell, never worked for me. still get instantly killed or at least instant down to below 10%.

 

[Nuka Cola.8520]

From personal experience, i feel like a burst mes on mirage offers too much. The damage itself is acceptable, since its been pretty high ever since core mes. The problem is the combination of damage with everything else. Insane in and out of combat mobility. Amazing survivability. And as if this wasn't enough, we also have cc spam batman with sword ambush.

 

With current power mez, i hope no1 says "power mesmer takes skill" cuz you're high af if you think so.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @MUDse.7623 said:

>

> > > @"K THEN.5162" said:

> > > Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

> > > **Necro:** Reaper's Protection (same reason as above), Unholy Sanctuary

> >

> > No reaper or scourge is running the Death Magic trait line though so that isn't really that useful in terms of advice.

> >

>

> this is not correct since i play deadeye alot currently its amazing to see so many people with that autoshroud trait, same goes for soulbeasts with the trait that will when takin lethal damage get them out of their form and heal a bit. i feel like its every 3rd or 4th nekro that runs that trait and its in death magic dont know the name atm tho - i also did think nobody is running it before..

 

I'm inclined to side with Dze. Necro roamers would hardly take the death magic trait line.

There are much better lines to use.

The necros with auto-shroud on KO trait that you encounter are probably zerg builds.

My core necro that I play for zerg fights has a build that uses the auto-shroud on KO trait.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

>

> both need to be seriously addressed

> nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

 

A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

[Eremes Guile.1480]

A mesmer tried to one-shot me earlier. But i insta condi-bomb it instead. i have 10% hp left, the mesmer was down. Luls.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

> >

> > both need to be seriously addressed

> > nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

>

> A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

 

I 'm certain you can agree with me that it is Anet Responsibility to keep toxic specs+toxic builds in line when they surface

[takatsu.9416]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

> > >

> > > both need to be seriously addressed

> > > nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

> >

> > A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

>

> I 'm certain you can agree with me that it is Anet Responsibility to keep toxic specs+toxic builds in line when they surface

 

Except toxic spec is relative and subjective opinion.

 

What I find a toxic spec are actually unkillable sustain builds not because I personally want to one shot them, but that takes the skill out of it for me. I'd rather fight a hit and run thief who is just as dangerous as a one shot build I may be running and see who can react faster than the other. That to me is more play skill. It's not just about spamming buttons but actually timing your evades and survivability skills and managing your cooldowns so you got a backup. Whoever runs out of resources or endurance or misses timing something then they are at risk. I think that is fun and true play skill. Like what we may be told real sword fights would be in history, there is no fantasy movie swinging and parrying for two hours. When I die I know exactly my mistake in not managing my cooldowns as well as I should or missing a timing or forgetting I had a skill I could've used in that situation and then I can improve next time.

 

Standing there facetanking hits and going invulnerable every couple seconds is not skill. That to me is not a sign of skill. If you really want to slap a toxic label on it, then sustain builds for me are toxic. This is not a turn based game, it is not the best action combat but it is still action combat, about reaction and being fluent with your class

[Cynz.9437]

> @takatsu.9416 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > both need to be seriously addressed

> > > > nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

> > >

> > > A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

> >

> > I 'm certain you can agree with me that it is Anet Responsibility to keep toxic specs+toxic builds in line when they surface

>

> Except toxic spec is relative and subjective opinion.

>

> What I find a toxic spec are actually unkillable sustain builds not because I personally want to one shot them, but that takes the skill out of it for me. I'd rather fight a hit and run thief who is just as dangerous as a one shot build I may be running and see who can react faster than the other. That to me is more play skill. It's not just about spamming buttons but actually timing your evades and survivability skills and managing your cooldowns so you got a backup. Whoever runs out of resources or endurance or misses timing something then they are at risk. I think that is fun and true play skill. Like what we may be told real sword fights would be in history, there is no fantasy movie swinging and parrying for two hours. When I die I know exactly my mistake in not managing my cooldowns as well as I should or missing a timing or forgetting I had a skill I could've used in that situation and then I can improve next time.

>

> Standing there facetanking hits and going invulnerable every couple seconds is not skill. That to me is not a sign of skill. If you really want to slap a toxic label on it, then sustain builds for me are toxic. This is not a turn based game, it is not the best action combat but it is still action combat, about reaction and being fluent with your class

 

+1 for truff!

[Aeolus.3615]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @takatsu.9416 said:

> > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

> > > > >

> > > > > both need to be seriously addressed

> > > > > nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

> > > >

> > > > A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

> > >

> > > I 'm certain you can agree with me that it is Anet Responsibility to keep toxic specs+toxic builds in line when they surface

> >

> > Except toxic spec is relative and subjective opinion.

> >

> > What I find a toxic spec are actually unkillable sustain builds not because I personally want to one shot them, but that takes the skill out of it for me. I'd rather fight a hit and run thief who is just as dangerous as a one shot build I may be running and see who can react faster than the other. That to me is more play skill. It's not just about spamming buttons but actually timing your evades and survivability skills and managing your cooldowns so you got a backup. Whoever runs out of resources or endurance or misses timing something then they are at risk. I think that is fun and true play skill. Like what we may be told real sword fights would be in history, there is no fantasy movie swinging and parrying for two hours. When I die I know exactly my mistake in not managing my cooldowns as well as I should or missing a timing or forgetting I had a skill I could've used in that situation and then I can improve next time.

> >

> > Standing there facetanking hits and going invulnerable every couple seconds is not skill. That to me is not a sign of skill. If you really want to slap a toxic label on it, then sustain builds for me are toxic. This is not a turn based game, it is not the best action combat but it is still action combat, about reaction and being fluent with your class

>

> +1 for truff!

 

That would be more valid if that gameplay actually was more towards to pvp gaemplay than pve class spam and power creep based, issue is that everything is aeoe/cleave spam based.... and in ANet ideal of balance is to take the risk on some gimmicks to help the pve players on most.

On some classes is more risky to play bunky/support than actually get acceass to easy damage output, shout guardian for example completelly underhwlming due current spam and power creep (must buy new gimmicks for easyer win) , but maybe that's me that tend to avoid gimmicks in this game since i feel carried and i dont like that feel wich might be the reason i kinda hate gw2 pve...and spvp that forces me to use meta rotation to look good and cut effort than acutally play with what is needed on the momment.

 

Gw2 pvp is way to "simpleton".

[MadBomber.3719]

just moa him. counter his skill usage xD

[Burnfall.9573]

> @takatsu.9416 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > Right... so Mesmer is further invading Thief's territory, what else is new :/. What will Anet do? Nerf thief, buff mesmer.

> > > >

> > > > both need to be seriously addressed

> > > > nerfing them will never be enough. (5 years should be evident of that) They must be re-designed from the ground up, at least that's the only solution i see that's available

> > >

> > > A redesign may be a bit much. Both were fine when the game originally released. People just did not like how dirty the Mesmer and Thieves were when players got good with them.

> >

> > I 'm certain you can agree with me that it is Anet Responsibility to keep toxic specs+toxic builds in line when they surface

>

> Except toxic spec is relative and subjective opinion.

>

> What I find a toxic spec are actually unkillable sustain builds not because I personally want to one shot them, but that takes the skill out of it for me. I'd rather fight a hit and run thief who is just as dangerous as a one shot build I may be running and see who can react faster than the other. That to me is more play skill. It's not just about spamming buttons but actually timing your evades and survivability skills and managing your cooldowns so you got a backup. Whoever runs out of resources or endurance or misses timing something then they are at risk. I think that is fun and true play skill. Like what we may be told real sword fights would be in history, there is no fantasy movie swinging and parrying for two hours. When I die I know exactly my mistake in not managing my cooldowns as well as I should or missing a timing or forgetting I had a skill I could've used in that situation and then I can improve next time.

>

> Standing there facetanking hits and going invulnerable every couple seconds is not skill. That to me is not a sign of skill. If you really want to slap a toxic label on it, then sustain builds for me are toxic. This is not a turn based game, it is not the best action combat but it is still action combat, about reaction and being fluent with your class

 

Although I disagree with you. You are entitled to your own opinion

[EvilSardine.9635]

I've run into quite a few new players who stopped playing WvW because they can be walking around and then they're just instantly dead.

 

Kind of sucks that new players are being pushed away because of a toxic spec.

[KeyOrion.9506]

> @"K THEN.5162" said:

> Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

>

> Those being:

> **Ele:** Arcane Shielding/Earth's Embrace

> **Mesmer**: Mirror of Anguish cause we always open with a stun

> **Necro:** Reaper's Protection (same reason as above), Unholy Sanctuary

> **Thief**: Instant Reflexes

> **Ranger**: Stoneform, Protective Ward

> **Engineer**: Self-Regulating Defenses, Protection Injection

> **Guardian**: Passive Aegis, Valorous Aegis

> **Revenant**: Soothing Bastion

> **Warrior**: Defy Pain

 

That requires you noticed a "tell" of the enemy before he is going to do the one shot, however in stealth mode you can not see that tell. Scourges can down 3-5 people that get within it's moving field. Your hit with multiple conditions, which you can't even clear off, because the amount time the scourges field stays up. The Mesmer 24k hit, one trick pony's. Not a lot of players do one trick pony's. That's only the roamers that contest keep/garrison, take camps, and kill sentries. However you put all those trick pony's into a small 2-5 man squad and they can take tower/keeps/garrisons all by themselves, while killing all comers that aren't double or triple the size of them. Not to sure what anet was thinking about some of these skill buffs, perma boons, and extended condition times. It's just been a consistent nightmare.

[K THEN.5162]

> @"KeyOrion.9506" said:

> That requires you noticed a "tell" of the enemy before he is going to do the one shot, however in stealth mode you can not see that tell. Scourges can down 3-5 people that get within it's moving field. Your hit with multiple conditions, which you can't even clear off, because the amount time the scourges field stays up. The Mesmer 24k hit, one trick pony's. Not a lot of players do one trick pony's. That's only the roamers that contest keep/garrison, take camps, and kill sentries. However you put all those trick pony's into a small 2-5 man squad and they can take tower/keeps/garrisons all by themselves, while killing all comers that aren't double or triple the size of them. Not to sure what anet was thinking about some of these skill buffs, perma boons, and extended condition times. It's just been a consistent nightmare.

 

WHAT?


 

Ok so

**A** What I listed are PASSIVES that don't require you to notice anything...they activate regardless as long as their criteria is met (hence the term PASSIVE)

**B** This was a thread about power mesmers downing people with no tell NOT about scourges which by the way, seeing one literally walking up to you should have all the tell in the world

**C** If people are taking your garrisons in groups of 2-5 then I'm sorry but that's a server issue not balance.

AND FINALLY

**D** There is already a thread currently dedicated to power mesmer so please just let this one die

[KeyOrion.9506]

24k from passives? I'd say anet didn't properly test the class. If your stating all that damage was partially or fully from passives. That's some serious not thinking attitude on anet's part.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @EvilSardine.9635 said:

>

> > Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

>

>

> A.) See if a mesmer is on the opposing team

> B.) Be ready to react when you see power lock.

> C.) Keep camera on a swivel to see if mesmer is approaching from behind or the side.

> D.) Congrats you now have the advantage.

>

>

 

this is the wvw forum btw, just thought id point it out because you seem to think you can notice enemy mesmers in some UI panel in wvw.

[Sora Shadow.9160]

Wow, some players just try to change the mesmer topic to thief with 2012 video. Such a troll job.

Just look at how a power mirage can instant down players. It's simple as easy as 1~2 sec blink time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybY42ji4ioQ

[eoz.1834]

why noone mentions fresh air weaver? It can literally burst you down in 2 secs meanwhile having stab/immunes etc. you can even reset or kite with fgs. its not only mesmers can oneshot ppl. they should tune down whole one-shot cheese specs in the game. 1vs1 you can avoid some of combos and do counter burst but in wvw where you were busy focusing on some opponent and some random dude burst you down in 2 secs with cheese specs is sorta frustrating experience for some does small-scaled fights instead blobbing.

[Turk.5460]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> why noone mentions fresh air weaver? It can literally burst you down in 2 secs meanwhile having stab/immunes etc. you can even reset or kite with fgs. its not only mesmers can oneshot ppl. they should tune down whole one-shot cheese specs in the game. 1vs1 you can avoid some of combos and do counter burst but in wvw where you were busy focusing on some opponent and some random dude burst you down in 2 secs with cheese specs is sorta frustrating experience for some does small-scaled fights instead blobbing.

 

Because you can see FA Weaver coming from three expansions away.

[KeyOrion.9506]

At one time in the video, sucker had 5-8 stacks of Torment, and the Mesmer was gaining health, or not even taking damage below 55%. While moving. Also was doing the same thing with Confusion while throwing down skills and support and health bar still stayed steady at 55%. Looked like the only time the sucker was taking any large amounts of damage was when fighting 3-5 players. And even then his output was far more than 3-5 players combined.....yah i'm going to have to say Arenanet really didn't plan well on balance on some of the skills and traits too well. I'm starting to believe even that boons should have an actual extended cooldown before they can be launched by any skill/trait.

 

I don't even want to think of the next expansion imbalance. I'm seeing all sorts of issues crop up in WvW from this last crop of specializations on uber damage, uber defenses, uber extended boons. Bleh.

[Oozo.7856]

> @"eoz.1834" said:

> why noone mentions fresh air weaver? It can literally burst you down in 2 secs meanwhile having stab/immunes etc. you can even reset or kite with fgs. its not only mesmers can oneshot ppl. they should tune down whole one-shot cheese specs in the game. 1vs1 you can avoid some of combos and do counter burst but in wvw where you were busy focusing on some opponent and some random dude burst you down in 2 secs with cheese specs is sorta frustrating experience for some does small-scaled fights instead blobbing.

 

Well, you can see them and line up your damage/CC on them before they can execute theirs. 1min44sec

 

 

 

[Baldrick.8967]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"eoz.1834" said:

> > why noone mentions fresh air weaver? It can literally burst you down in 2 secs meanwhile having stab/immunes etc. you can even reset or kite with fgs. its not only mesmers can oneshot ppl. they should tune down whole one-shot cheese specs in the game. 1vs1 you can avoid some of combos and do counter burst but in wvw where you were busy focusing on some opponent and some random dude burst you down in 2 secs with cheese specs is sorta frustrating experience for some does small-scaled fights instead blobbing.

>

> Because you can see FA Weaver coming from three expansions away.

 

You only see them if you aren't fighting against some other people, or they don't have a handy source of stealth helping.

 

I'm now running into pairs and even threes of these cancers running around, all of whom can unload 20+ damage ticks in under 0.2 seconds (macro abuse much?) and then escape to safety before you can so much as blink.

 

Hopefully the 'balance team' will be looking at extremes and swinging the nerf bat on these.

 

There is a simple fix, which is to have an internal cooldown between each skill usage. Quarter of a second is enough, so no one can spam more than 4 skills a second.