Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[Tomahawk.7361]

Okay okay, I know we are having some serious feels here, but gotta add some humor, just a wee bit.

[Miss Lana.5276]

> @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

> > @Niobium.7392 said:

> > > @Rumba.3174 said:

> > > psst vote on the matter;

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/14531/loot-boxes-for-mount-skins

> >

> > Done.

> >

> > Even if all we're doing is yelling at the wind.

>

> Just don't buy them, if they prove to be a fiscal disaster then they will change it.

>

> If they don't get it after failing financially then NCSoft will set them straight.

 

NCSoft (iirc, either that or it's Anet) is now owned by a Chinese company. Chinese companies typically don't listen to their customers.

 

Gw2, I would say, is probably filled with 40% fanboys (possibly more) of the game who will defend any decision the devs make. These morons ***will** pay these absolutely ridiculous prices for RNG skins.

 

NCSoft won't set them straight (because cash money yo), and the idiots in the game won't use their brain and vote with their wallet. Nothing will change, and this makes me very angry.

[pah.4931]

Can you sell a skin on the TP if you get one you don't like? Seems like that is the best compromise here.

 

(I am sure they cannot be sold?)

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @pah.4931 said:

> Can you sell a skin on the TP if you get one you don't like? Seems like that is the best compromise here.

>

> (I am sure they cannot be sold?)

 

No, you can't.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @pah.4931 said:

> Can you sell a skin on the TP if you get one you don't like? Seems like that is the best compromise here.

>

> (I am sure they cannot be sold?)

 

No duplicates, but no, you cannot sell skins you don't want on the TP.

[Kalibri.5861]

ArenaNet, I love you, but this is absurd. Ditch the gambling, charge a reasonable amount per guaranteed skin, and produce content that people actually want rather than forcing them to play with something they don't just because that's what the random number generator decided to give them for their money and time.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Wish I could choose which mount I was getting a random skin for. That would be a great middle ground.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @KingAsh.4570 said:

> they just cosmetic items does not affect you any way like rofl

 

Except that GW2 and MMOs have always FOCUSED on cosmetic items as MMOs don't let you interact with the world and they don't offer immersive experiences. MMOs are all visual. Restricting visual content to pay store only means there is nothing out of the pay store.

 

I recently bougth HoT and PoF. Both feel completely empty and pointless as they are just a few maps and really nothing else. The maps themselves are the same shit we had in the vanilla game, except that the HoT maps are actually significantly worse as they are narrow corridors that are a pain to move around in. There are no new experiences to be had. No new types of gameplay. No new anything really. At least with WoW they kept experimenting with new types of gameplay with each expansion.

[Moonlit.6421]

> @Kalocin.5982 said:

> People generally assume that players are just whining children but as far as I'm concerned, I'm an adult, I have my own life and bills to pay. If my local grocery store started spiking its price I'd go elsewhere. There's this weird odd disconnect for people when they associate "value" and digital goods. To say ignore it, is a very dangerous slope to go down, and horrible for the digital industry in general; heck it's why net neutrality is so huge right now.

>

 

Honestly I can say that I'm not a huge fan of the way mount skins were done, though I personally can also I say I don't find it a huge deal. To those who do and wish to voice it that's fine, but I get tired of people found it in such a bratty and childish way. You don't like something? Hey that's fine, but don't come on forums and scream "Anet should be ashamed" or "they're taking a page from Ubisoft and...". If you don't like it make a serious post, tell me why, and tell me why I should be on your side and why Anet should change. Don't make a post with the title in all caps and whine like a child who was just told they couldn't have something, it makes it really hard for me to agree with you. And I'm not talking about the op here but more the 4-5 other threads all talking about the new skins.

 

 

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> Question, do you call people who love trading card games stupid too for buying card packs with RNG?

 

I'm amazed that no one has replied to _this_ one.

 

As someone who does collect trading cards, I got tired of relying on RNG to get a certain card, so guess what I did. _I bought a single online._ For like the same price as a booster pack, I bought the exact card I wanted.

 

[Harper.4173]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @DakotaCoty.5721 said:

> > The Black Lion Stables are pleased to open their doors and offer new mount adoption licenses. Each license will allow you to claim a random mount skin from the Black Lion Stables, and they are available in the Style category of the Gem Store for 400 gems each.

> >

> > If this trend continues I won't fund this game anymore, simple as that. This is stupid.

> >

> > The math:

> > 400 * 31 = 12,400 gems.

>

> How is that different from spending 100 gems for a chance at an exclusive dye]? Or 80 gems (in bulks) for BL keys, with a random chance of skins? Like any lotto, play if you think you'll get lucky, otherwise hang tight and buy the specific skin(s) you want when they show up at a discount later.

 

It's different because I can buy that dye off the TP if I want to. I can't buy the mount skins off the TP.

This is why it is a problem in my opinion.

If these could be sold on the TP it would be fine.

Also - consider that I don't want to play a lottery where I don't care about 4/5 of the mount skin categories. I dislike springers and raptors and other whatnots. I want griffon skins. Why do I have to get the rest too?

[crashburntoo.7431]

I think part of what isn't sitting well with me is the big picture. To release 30+ skins all at once is absolutely unprecedented but also very necessary for this marketing/sales model. These skins have been in the works for a long time... this was fully planned to release like this from the beginning. I mean months ago... possibly a year ago. On top of that, we were eased into the idea of skins with the Spooky mounts, which were marketed as a package only and shown as a "sale" at 1600 gems. Keep in mind that these were the first skins available, tied to a popular, seasonal event and opened up more dye channels (a point that wasn't lost on the community either). The single "premium" skin at 2000 gems attempts to convince the consumer that the 300-400 gems per skin random model is a good deal, as if a discount for randomness may have already been applied.

 

From all of this, I draw the conclusion that they've been watching and measuring for a long time. I'm not sure why we all thought that Anet would rise above these types of business models. We know that many other businesses use them and have a lot of data behind them. We know that this preys on weaknesses in addiction, hoarding and mental illness. Artificial scarcity was discussed recently too. I've worked in sales for 10 years, and I find these trends very disturbing.

 

It's a tough exercise for some, myself included. I look at these things that I might enjoy, and I need to repeat to myself that it isn't worth it. Anet has been very intentional in how they've chosen to market, and I need to be very intentional in how I choose to consume.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

^

 

I agree with Ayumi. They bought under those terms and there is no reason to give them a better deal.

[kharmin.7683]

> @Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

> If they don't get it after failing financially then NCSoft will set them straight.

Assuming NCSoft didn't instigate it?

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @KingAsh.4570 said:

> they just cosmetic items does not affect you any way like rofl

 

While the company isn't out of business, a situation would be like with me and Konami.

Their business plan to stop making a Ganbare Goemon game after 2006 and then a Pachinko in 2008 or 2009 made me stop support the company. It affected me as now I'm not a paying customer for Konami even long before people were up in arms about the path they took. Forgot what year many people got mad at them... like 2 or 3 years ago?

Same with me and Bioware. Their actions with Mass Effect 2 slowly pushed me a bit away from them... their actions with Dragon Age as a whole as well... the final straw for me was Mass Effect 3 with that ending and then just ending multiple in a single player game for "reasons" which no matter what cut the resources they could have used on the single player experience itself.

 

What I'm getting at is any action a company takes with something will always affect the customer(s). It's not always bad of course, but clearly never always positive either.

 

Koei making Dynasty Warriors 9 open world and also said it might not have any coop/multiplayer aspects to it. I'm a bit worried on if I would like it or not, but once again affect me.

You can go "you can buy it or not"... yeah but if too many people say "not", you know that will harm the company/games and in the end those companies/games disappear?

Who was the guys that just disappeared under EA? The ones that did Dead Space and such... forgot their name and not in a mood to look it up at the moment.

Either way, their actions and set ups kind of affected their customers because... now that company cease to exist. They didn't do well (at least according to EA) so they got shut down.

 

This situation affects everyone because it can go multiple ways.

1. More RNG and less customer friendly things can be added. Which would push even more customers away and might even make customers that's okay with it right now question it later down the line.

2. People start to slowly leave the game that used to be paying customers and now they have to do even more bad business practices to keep up with the loss income they used to get from customers that left.

3. The game/company shuts down as they can't support it no more.

 

There's many ways.

For you to say that (and in worse writing than me as.... I'm horrible at English), shows how little you understand how the business world works.

I'm not an economist by any means, but I at least get how things are usually done. Supply and demand. When the demand disappears... the supply stocks up... when the supply stocks up... no money is changed/transferred... when no money is changed/transferred, then a problem occurs.

 

One of the reasons that got me into GW2 is the actions and practices of Sega on Phantasy Star Online 2. I used to play that game religiously.

I kind of would not like to see this happen to Arenanet.

[Doam.8305]

Well yeah obviously people will play less these things have a history after all as Gw2 isn't the first and won't be the last

 

The truth is they don't care if you quit at this point or if your upset because their main focus is hauling in whales. If 90% of the community absolutely hates something but they net some whales who will buy everything they'd see it as a success. Sure people would jump ship and that would hurt future expansion sales but their set to maximize their profits by milking and catering to the whales. Which creates money which they fold right back into the whales creating a lasting and profitable loop. At least until the whales take not the the seas have become devoid of fish which wouldn't happen for awhile.

[Rio.4259]

> @SmirkDog.3160 said:

> > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > Question, do you call people who love trading card games stupid too for buying card packs with RNG?

>

> I'm amazed that no one has replied to _this_ one.

>

> As someone who does collect trading cards, I got tired of relying on RNG to get a certain card, so guess what I did. _I bought a single online._ For like the same price as a booster pack, I bought the exact card I wanted.

>

 

Yeah, I had to reply to this one, too. >.> Because if booster packs = loot boxes....yeah. Buying random packs DOES get old and if there's one shiny card I really want, Im not gonna spend $150 on packs hoping to get it. I'm gonna spend $10 on the card itself. Take that as you will, if someone wants to make that comparison.

[Seabreeze.8437]

The Halloween mount package was just a test. Anet is now going straight for the wallets with this RNG loot box style Black Lion Stable thing. Guess I see now why default mounts only have one dye channel. If you want any sort of creative freedom, get ready to break out that wallet.

 

I know Anet has always had RNG stuff with their BL chests, but seriously the whole concept of loot box gambling in games these days has gotten so far out of hand... did we really need another channel for gambling in this game? Not to mention the obscene price tags for mounts that DO happen to be sold individually. 2000 gems for the warforged mount? Really? I know WoW has crazy prices on their mounts but I didn't think Anet would follow suit.

 

It's weird, I'm both surprised and not surprised at this turn of events. The minute mounts were introduced, it was really cool (and still is, don't get me wrong), and I knew there would be some serious gem store marketing for mount skins. What surprises me though, is the method they actually went through with. I was not expecting a mount casino with crazy prices to gamble for mounts. Feels really gross, Anet. Sorry, but it really does. :'(

[DearlyMe.5320]

No. We knew what we were doing when we bought them.

[Myrdreth.6829]

> @Rio.4259 said:

> > @SmirkDog.3160 said:

> > > @Deihnyx.6318 said:

> > > Question, do you call people who love trading card games stupid too for buying card packs with RNG?

> >

> > I'm amazed that no one has replied to _this_ one.

> >

> > As someone who does collect trading cards, I got tired of relying on RNG to get a certain card, so guess what I did. _I bought a single online._ For like the same price as a booster pack, I bought the exact card I wanted.

> >

>

> Yeah, I had to reply to this one, too. >.> Because if booster packs = loot boxes....yeah. Buying random packs DOES get old and if there's one shiny card I really want, Im not gonna spend $150 on packs hoping to get it. I'm gonna spend $10 on the card itself. Take that as you will, if someone wants to make that comparison.

 

My husband and I love to play Magic the Gathering. And we never buy booster packs. We buy the cards we want on the flea market or online at ebay or whatever. I only play white decks, and I only buy white cards.

[Gerrand.3085]

The friends I used to play guild wars 2 with ditched the game during the first living world season - when once off events like the Lion's arch karka invasion were in effect. HoT was such a mess up they passed it by but when PoF released, I practically preached about how well the game had been fixed up. Three of them started playing and then this gambling fest is shoved in. I am literally ashamed to have brought my friend group back into this.

 

We are at a point in gaming where inquiries are being launched into the morality of gaming loot boxes with the ends of changing the definition of gambling to encompass them - then Anet drops this nonsense? Like 25 of these mounts are re-skins with particle effects glued on top. Half hour creations which could have been done by graduate interns and yet they are being priced higher then most items in the game? 2000 gems for a mount skin - which from what ive heard isn't even included in the rng-contract table?

 

MMOs arent just stores, they places where communities invest huge amounts of time in a virtual world - usually because they have some love for that virtual world and faith in its general direction. When a company drops this sort of cash grab on the community the soonest moment they can, people dont just question the morality of the current con, they question the direction of every decision to come. I thought devs were wondering whether they were going to even going to make mount skins - apparently they went from that mind-frame to creating 2000 gem items in the period of two months.

 

This has been the only MMO I've played for 3 years. I'm fairly invested in it but at this point I think I'm going to start looking for a new place to sink my time into - preferably with the pay-model mindset Anet had from vanilla to hot.

[Ellisande.5218]

The fact that all the mount skins are acquired by forking over money is appalling. PoF is already severely lacking in content compared to the cost. This is just a shameful display by Anet.

 

The greediness Anet has displayed with GW2 since even its initial launch is why I have never once recommended GW2 to any of my friends. WoW, at $15/month was a better deal than this. At least it was until the Blizzard's execs decided to limit flying and then blamed the players for Blizzard's decision to limit flying when the actual reason Blizzard limited flying was very clearly financial. That was far more appalling to me but Anet's money grubbing was already too much.

 

Yes, businesses exist to make money. But I am not a business when I play a game, I am a consumer. So what matters to me and should matter to everyone else is whether they feel they are getting sufficient value for their money. For me, PoF (and HoT) were not sufficient value for money. Anet's policy of requiring customers to fork over ADDITIONAL money on top of what they already paid just to have their character look the way they want is unforgivable and has been unforgivable since GW2 launched and required you to pay real money just to make your armor have the skin you wanted.

[Henry.5713]

Saw some players who have complained in length about the pricing of the expansion before jump in instantly to buy these Licenses. Kind of makes me chuckle. Though, I am not sure why people are so surprised about this after the recent cash shop additions. Don't support it if you do not like it.

[Aeolus.3615]

i would buy skins of the tp for mount or armors etc, but if the game was towards ...well balanced and decent pvp but since this is a baby game for todlers pve'ing.... i wont even "burn" money on PoF nor anything else on the TP.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @kharmin.7683 said:

> > @YoukiNeko.6047 said:

> > Yeah same, both me and my GF both the ultimate and have the previous ultimate editions.

> > But the RNG mount skins are really pushing us in the direction of leaving the game for good.

>

> Nothing personal, but I wonder at such a strong reaction to something that isn't required to play the game.

 

If you'd read my post, you'd have seen it's not the mounts... It's that there's a systematic encroachment of "gambling" mechanics in the game.

I mean they could have slowly released the mounts 5 at a time over the next 6 weeks for 400 gems each, and people would be buying them, especially if they stacked the "aura" mounts to the end of the release plan. Now a lot of people (me included) won't touch them at all, and a lot of people (me included) are less inclined to buy gems, or even play the game.

 

Also it's not just the RMG but also the price on that Forged Hound thing... 2000 gems? That's more expensive than the WHOLE expansion, not to mention as expensive as the previous 5 pack.

They could have easily learned from games like LoL and have tiered skins 400 for "common" skins (The ones without particle effects), 800 for "elite" sins (the particle effect ones), and 1200 for Legendary skins (Like the hound). But 2000 Gems?

 

They were greedy with the mounts. And yes, as a person that bought Ultimate, having them release 30 mounts so soon after release tells me that the whole "not sure about mount skins yet" talk that was going on at release was bullshit and an excuse not to do what they did with HoT and give a special skin for buyers.