IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @ZhouX.8742 said: > Scourge itself does have counters, the issue is it's camped by firebrand supports which make it pretty much godlike. I mean if its a 2v2, have you tried warrior/thief. Pretty sure two heavy power classes can kill a Firebrand fairly quickly, aswell as having quiet a lot of access to cc for the scourage or resistance/mobility to not stand in the AOE for 10 years. Firebrand dies and i'm sure the no shroud necromancer will die very soon after. In a 2v2 tournament Scourage/Firebrand would definitely not be in the top 3. Not to mention 99% of you probably refuse to run counters because you believe your meta-battle build is optimal. Well how optimal is getting countered by someone else playing an optimal spec? If you don't like it so much, adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxx.5021 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 There is no real point in comparing scourge and dragon hunter. The game should prevent class stacking in ranked matches (e.g. no switching before match starts and no duo of the same class). With this only minor changes to (all) classes would be required to achieve better match quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALARMORGHULIS.9173 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 As a Plat 2-Legendary Division player who mains scourge (and has mained necro for 3+ years) and am ranked in the top 5 Necromancers in game to this day: I just l played my first ranked match of the season placement. I've been gone for one month now, and decided to come see the new patch and try it out. I hit 900k dmg on scourge this match, we won barely and i logged and uninstalled again. We started off with a team fight at mid this game and they had a fb support with two scourges and a mirage. My whole team died at mid because the fb on their team was able to sustain even after i downed both of their scourges and stomped one out. The mirage was able to focus down our team one at a time (myself being the exception before i rotated out to home for regroup). We ended up winning because at one point I pushed far on deadshot/scav rune scourge and killed both of their scourges in about 30-40s. After that we snowballed and ended up winning. The idea that scourge had a low ceiling cap is not necessarily true. Necromancer has always been a class that is easy to use the skills and understand them, but the advantage has always been on the side of necromancer mains who are experienced with positioning and kyting while applying pressure and high situational awareness. This class is not easy to master like other classes as it takes time and experience at a high level where you are constantly being pressured by pro players...in the inhouses we put on or semifinals/finals in tournaments. That being said, most high level scourges can win outnumbered fights and out damage/kyte lower level scourges/inexperienced. The problems woth scourge can't be properly fixed without completely ruining the elite spec itself. The ideal thing to do for anet would be to bring up the ability of other classes to fight it rather than nerf scourge. Currently FB is very useful in team fights and necessary and high level games or tournament matches where you will see the team fight revolve around long drawn out teamfights where the scourges run around kyting and pressuring the other team and scourge until someone makes a mistake and the team capitalizes on it finally getting a kill or a kill being picked up in a 1v1 or 1v2 on another node and one team rotating out of the team fight etc. It's like chess. The game is more complicated and you can't just slap on one patch nerfing a skill that the entire class and it's role revolves around. The whole game is just aoe clutter and button mashing until someone dies and the other team tries to snowball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 What about a different soloq system which allow you to queue with a specific class, and pair you with different classes as well? There will be only 1x class per team ( not sure about the queue's lenght though, but since many classes could have a higher Q cause of faceroll class, players could decide to change the class they are playing ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfric.9380 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 oh yea bring class locking and solo Q. + Let the matchmaker balance out sides on classes and then MMR after selecting the 10 players.... Would robb the "play with a friend" thing .. and it will lead to less blowouts and more ("forced") 50:50 win rates ... so pick your poision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider.7849 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @TheDevice.2751 said: > > @ArthurDent.9538 said: > > The difference is that scourge is legitimately overpowered at high levels as well as low. Trap dragon-hunter was never much different than thief spamming unload, can be annoying when it kills you sometimes, but that is it. > > > @Vapour.7348 said: > > DH had lots of counters. Scourge on the other hand is a dirty, dirty spec. > > Don't Mesmer and Deadeye counter a scourge? You'd think at least a deadeye are almost purposely designed to hard counter a scourge. The thing about that is I rarely ever see people play deadeye. They're always running either some DD or even vanilla build. Its also pretty rare for me to see a Mirage have issues with a scourge. Deadeye yes, mesmer no. The best counter is actually soulbeast/core ranger specs. Unfortunately Deadeye is not in meta for pvp and neither is soulbeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Smiles.8951 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @ArthurDent.9538 said: > The difference is that scourge is legitimately overpowered at high levels as well as low. Trap dragon-hunter was never much different than thief spamming unload, can be annoying when it kills you sometimes, but that is it. Pretty much this. The Dragonhunter was barely picked at high levels and was actually in the same boat with the Berserker for the first few seasons (those two have almost never been seen in the pro league). WIth the Scourge it's just the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 DH could never corrupt every single boon on opponents into major condi damage. /Thread The OP is either clues, troll or Anet dev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @otto.5684 said: > DH could never corrupt every single boon on opponents into major condi damage. /Thread > > The OP is either clues, troll or Anet dev. Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > Didn't I hear that the same person was responsible for designing both Scourge and DH? > When can engineer get some of that love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @TheDevice.2751 said: > Dragonhun- I mean Scourge. > > My question is: what is the difference between the Scourge and DH (before PoF). When there were plenty of complaints about there being stacks of DH on each team and them deleting people who got too close to them? > > Where are all the threads that are like "Stay out of their circles", "if you died in their circles, you deserved it", "get gud", "they are low skill ceiling" or my favorite "It's a L2P issue". The similarities are almost scary and you could pretty much say all those things about the scourge that people said about the DH as they all can potentially apply. > > Whats the difference? Is it because Scourge is being supported by firebrand? And if thats the case, should we be disregarding all the complaints from lower-ranked players since its quite rare to see a scourge/fb duo below plat? > > Btw, I think scourge should get nerfed. I just would like to know how this situation is different from the DH one. Dh was weak as fuck in fact. 2 years after hot, people thinking DH was strong is beyond me...How can you compare both prof... But I assume this will remain ...and people will come back with this urban legend again and again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicast.1459 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > @otto.5684 said: > > DH could never corrupt every single boon on opponents into major condi damage. /Thread > > > > The OP is either clues, troll or Anet dev. > > Yup. This !!! lol But Aren't Anet devs troll ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megilandil.7506 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @TheDevice.2751 said: > Dragonhun- I mean Scourge. > > My question is: what is the difference between the Scourge and DH (before PoF). When there were plenty of complaints about there being stacks of DH on each team and them deleting people who got too close to them? > > Where are all the threads that are like "Stay out of their circles", "if you died in their circles, you deserved it", "get gud", "they are low skill ceiling" or my favorite "It's a L2P issue". The similarities are almost scary and you could pretty much say all those things about the scourge that people said about the DH as they all can potentially apply. > > Whats the difference? Is it because Scourge is being supported by firebrand? And if thats the case, should we be disregarding all the complaints from lower-ranked players since its quite rare to see a scourge/fb duo below plat? > > Btw, I think scourge should get nerfed. I just would like to know how this situation is different from the DH one. DH(traper) must be in circle to do their thing, they drop their shit(traps) in his feet , scourge drops shit at range this is the diference, dh are "broken" defending circles, preset trap and drop other imediatly after activation , scourge are "broken" either defending and asaulting circles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abazigal.3679 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 The common point between turret engineer/dh trapper/scourge is that people usually throw games by trying to 1v1 them over and over. But, thinking about it, it has gotten worse, because it has gone from slow physical damage to small " melee " aoe circles to big "range" aoe circles landing xx conditions. That being said, i'm still going to argue that warrior is the main issue right now in solo queue, the same way hambow were the real problem in the turret meta( if we can call it a " meta " since it was only used in solo queue ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevice.2751 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @Kicast.1459 said: > > @TheDevice.2751 said: > > Dragonhun- I mean Scourge. > > > > My question is: what is the difference between the Scourge and DH (before PoF). When there were plenty of complaints about there being stacks of DH on each team and them deleting people who got too close to them? > > > > Where are all the threads that are like "Stay out of their circles", "if you died in their circles, you deserved it", "get gud", "they are low skill ceiling" or my favorite "It's a L2P issue". The similarities are almost scary and you could pretty much say all those things about the scourge that people said about the DH as they all can potentially apply. > > > > Whats the difference? Is it because Scourge is being supported by firebrand? And if thats the case, should we be disregarding all the complaints from lower-ranked players since its quite rare to see a scourge/fb duo below plat? > > > > Btw, I think scourge should get nerfed. I just would like to know how this situation is different from the DH one. > > Dh was weak as kitten in fact. > 2 years after hot, people thinking DH was strong is beyond me...How can you compare both prof... > But I assume this will remain ...and people will come back with this urban legend again and again... Lol this is exactly what im talking about. The pure lack of honesty. DH were so weak that they were stacked on teams and couldn't go a game without them. I get it. They were so bad that sooo many people grinded the ladder with DH to hit legend. Because it was weak.... yeah. I don't trust these forums lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevice.2751 Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 _if the firebrand/scourge combo is too strong_ why not just nerf firebrand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 wait, so the madatory class is just like the noob stomper class that got no play in teams? um bro i think you’ve done goofed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @TheDevice.2751 said: > _if the firebrand/scourge combo is too strong_ why not just nerf firebrand? _If the firebrand/scrouge combo is too strong why not just nerf scrouge?_ There is literaly no reason to touch Firebrand with current state of Scrouge, Mirage and Holosmith, thats what fishies told Quaggan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @TheDevice.2751 said: > _if the firebrand/scourge combo is too strong_ why not just nerf firebrand? _if the firebrand/scourge combo is too strong_ why not just nerf scourge? This is a little ridiculous at this point, good effort. 4/10 on the troll meter We all obviously know you're a biased Scourge main and you don't want your OPness to be touched. You're opinion is severely in the minority because frankly, anyone who has spent more than 15 minutes PvPing has realized how badly designed and broken Scourge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 How about we just nerf firebrand scourge and mirage and call it a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @Crinn.7864 said: > How about we just nerf firebrand scourge and mirage and call it a day? ...so you would leave Yolosmith with his stability, 25 stacks of mights and insane damage untouched and call it a day? If we take into account it has also access to good mobility due to swiftness and rocket boots, can easily disngage with those and stealth, can have quickness to burst on demand and has not bad sustain for "glass cannon" its simply overtuned and needs same threatment as Scrouge, Mirage and Firebrand. Not much, but something, somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reikken.4961 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 firebrand definitely needs nerfing, but scourge could use some tuning as well. it's too good at crushing noobs. But from what I've seen, most high level players don't think scourge is OP. It is good and useful in high level play, but not at all out of hand. firebrand is the main offender there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Y'all should just end this thread, its coming back to that point where you're just shouting to nerf everything... Game balance is fine, learn to play despite complaining skill floors, and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morwath.9817 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said: > Y'all should just end this thread, its coming back to that point where you're just shouting to nerf everything... Game balance is fine, learn to play despite complaining skill floors, and you'll be fine. Ooo, you're telling us, that PoF specs are balanced compared to HoT specs? Like.... Firebrand is equal to Tempest or Ventari Rev, or Reaper is as good as Scrouge, or maybe Holosmith isn't better than Scrapper, etc? We're just having skills issues and there isn't power creep all around? Quaggan is speechless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choovanski.5462 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 nerf/buff all classes to core guardian level & call it a day anyone who doesn’t think powercreep is an issue is either wilfully ignorant, or a legit moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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