Change Idea: Corrosive Poison Cloud

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

We all know that Necro has ONE skill to counter all the Ranged abilities in the game. Do they take it? No. Why? Because its like the worst skill in the whole game. My idea:

 

Change it to:

Corrosive Poison Shield

Corruption. Weaken and Poison yourself to envelop yourself in a Noxious cloud that destroys projectiles. Gain Life force per a projectile destroyed

Pulses: 1 Second

Self Poison: 2seconds per a Pulse

Self Weakness: 2 seconds per a pulse

Life Force: 1% Per a projectile

Duration 8 seconds

Cool down: 30seconds

 

I even had the thought of making it so that it could be toggled off when YOU want it to end, So you could have it on you as long as you want. The Poison and Weakness would keep stacking, could even make it so that like every 5seconds a new condition is added or something? What do you guys think? I personally think having a PERSONAL shield would be MUCH better, not as if we need another when it comes to group fights or anything and in Solo play, its SO easy to counter the skill that it just isnt good what so ever.

[Lahmia.2193]

Main reason I hate it is because of the self weakness. Basically means you'll never take on a power build.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Lahmia.2193 said:

> Main reason I hate it is because of the self weakness. Basically means you'll never take on a power build.

 

Would you rather have the weakness or take a full Rapid Fire to the face from 1,500range and losing half your health before you can even get in range to try and fight? I personally, even if it meant doing less damage would take the projectile destruction.

[Ceit.7619]

Quite an exaggeration saying it is the worst skill in the game. A large aoe of projectile destruction is quite useful in a lot of situations. In Spvp, it can basically cover an entire point in projectile destruction, and the self conditions can be transferred easily as a necromancer. I don't know much about wvw because I don't play that game mode, and in pve it has plenty of uses. I can think of many more 'useless' skills.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Ceit.7619 said:

> Quite an exaggeration saying it is the worst skill in the game. A large aoe of projectile destruction is quite useful in a lot of situations. In Spvp, it can basically cover an entire point in projectile destruction, and the self conditions can be transferred easily as a necromancer. I don't know much about wvw because I don't play that game mode, and in pve it has plenty of uses. I can think of many more 'useless' skills.

 

Compared to other AoE projectile hate skills, yes it is. Others offer reflections or longer duration. When it comes to AoE projectile hate. It is the worst skill in the game. This is a skill that wont stop you dying, wont protect you or anything. If ANY player died to a necro because they used this. They were a VERY bad player.

 

With all the AoE projectile hate skills in the game, this one isnt needed. Given the classes VERY serious lack of actual defense (before anyone says NO shroud is NOT a defense) changing a skill that is rarely used in some game modes and isnt used AT ALL in another game mode into a self skill that could actually see some use? Whats so bad about that?

 

[Swagg.9236]

> @Lahmia.2193 said:

> Main reason I hate it is because of the self weakness. Basically means you'll never take on a power build.

 

This is just more of anet's flavor-based designs ruining perfectly functional skills. The only power build it can work on is scourge (top joke) or a death magic line necro who would have to swap into shroud immediately just to clear the weakness. They should just change the way corruptions work outright.l

[Sarrs.4831]

>Do they take it? No.

 

CPC never leaves my bar in WvW roaming. It deletes so much power damage and so many interrupts that it's just really situationally good as a defensive tool, and in a Master of Corruptions build, its uptime is one of the best projectile destruction uptimes in the game. The poison and weakness it applies to foes are gravy... But they're not even bad. Permanently weakened if a melee enemy tries to pressure you while you stand in your fart cloud - what's not to like?

 

The Weakness is not at all an issue. Just Consume Conditions, PlagueSig, Suffer! or Deathly Swarm immediately after you use it. CPC -> CC is fantastic for allowing you to safely heal against many foes. Generally speaking, if you are playing with Corruptions and you do not have a plan to send your self-conditions to a foe or consume them, *you have not thought your Corruptions build through*.

 

Very strong skill. If you are looking for defensive options in an MoC build, it should be the first thing you look at.

[Dadnir.5038]

How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

[mazut.4296]

The skill is good, however it has casting time, which is the main reason it only works in pve and only in a situations where you know when to use it, before the projectile attack/s. It should be insta cast, like wall of reflection.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> >Do they take it? No.

>

> CPC never leaves my bar in WvW roaming. It deletes so much power damage and so many interrupts that it's just really situationally good as a defensive tool, and in a Master of Corruptions build, its uptime is one of the best projectile destruction uptimes in the game. The poison and weakness it applies to foes are gravy... But they're not even bad. Permanently weakened if a melee enemy tries to pressure you while you stand in your fart cloud - what's not to like?

>

> The Weakness is not at all an issue. Just Consume Conditions, PlagueSig, Suffer! or Deathly Swarm immediately after you use it. CPC -> CC is fantastic for allowing you to safely heal against many foes. Generally speaking, if you are playing with Corruptions and you do not have a plan to send your self-conditions to a foe or consume them, *you have not thought your Corruptions build through*.

>

> Very strong skill. If you are looking for defensive options in an MoC build, it should be the first thing you look at.

 

Why!? If you beat ANY ranged player using it, the chances were they were either AFK or going to die anyway. I have lost a total of ZERO fights against a Necro and thought "damn it, if only he didnt have Corrosive Cloud" Yeah it deletes that damage, if the person is stupid enough not to move what so ever to easily counter it.

 

I'd take forcing someone to come into MELEE as a better option than for them to move slightly to the side to counter the skill completely and continue to range spam from 1,200+ range away. The weakness wouldnt bother me either, I'd take doing a little less damage but make them come into Melee than to still have that damage but not be able to do anything about it because or mobility sucks and they are waling away from 1,200+ range.

 

Who said anything about a corruption build? I am talking about making a poor skill in most situations to be a good personal skill. Its like people assume that the ONLY thing a class should have is AoE. Selfish shields are good as well, i mean its not common for Necro to actually have some sort of defense but maybe coming around to the idea that defense is good might change peoples opinions?

 

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

 

There are MANY AoE projectile hate skills in the game that are better than this, the likes of Feedback, instantly. No one would say "nah we dont want feedback, Give us a crappy cloud" Revenant has a few as well that are more beneficial as they MOVE, one has the Dark field so your allies can heal through it and such.

 

Is it such a bad thing that Necro actually gets SOME selfish defense? Considering its rather HUGE lack of defense (no shroud doesnt count...) i think it would be fine to drop a TINY bit of AoE to get something that would benefit you much more.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

>

> There are MANY AoE projectile hate skills in the game that are better than this, the likes of Feedback, instantly. No one would say "nah we dont want feedback, Give us a crappy cloud" Revenant has a few as well that are more beneficial as they MOVE, one has the Dark field so your allies can heal through it and such.

>

> Is it such a bad thing that Necro actually gets SOME selfish defense? Considering its rather HUGE lack of defense (no shroud doesnt count...) i think it would be fine to drop a TINY bit of AoE to get something that would benefit you much more.

 

We fought hard for this tiny bit of non selfish defense, I don't want to see all our effort goes in vain. CPC in it's current form:

- destroy projectile for your party

- provide a long lasting poison field

- apply poison and weakness on foes that step into it

- have a great uptime

 

Your suggestion benefiting the necromancer much more is arguable. The poison you put on it will kill us easily, we won't be able to get rid of the weakness easily for the whole duration of the skill and there is no way in hell that anet will give a skill like that life force without an ICD. From a selfish point of view, you lose damage (a lot), you heavily punish yourself for that throught poison and weakness and you lose defense from weakness applied to your foes. All of that + the loss of a group utility for a tiny amount of life force? That's why I say no. It might look like a great idea but objectively it's not, it's more akin to an heavy nerf.

[UnDeadFun.5824]

I would leave CPC alone for reason noted by Dadnir.5038 and others. I'd rather see them tweak spectral wall, drop the protection and add projectile destruction

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > > How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

> >

> > There are MANY AoE projectile hate skills in the game that are better than this, the likes of Feedback, instantly. No one would say "nah we dont want feedback, Give us a crappy cloud" Revenant has a few as well that are more beneficial as they MOVE, one has the Dark field so your allies can heal through it and such.

> >

> > Is it such a bad thing that Necro actually gets SOME selfish defense? Considering its rather HUGE lack of defense (no shroud doesnt count...) i think it would be fine to drop a TINY bit of AoE to get something that would benefit you much more.

>

> We fought hard for this tiny bit of non selfish defense, I don't want to see all our effort goes in vain. CPC in it's current form:

> - destroy projectile for your party

> - provide a long lasting poison field

> - apply poison and weakness on foes that step into it

> - have a great uptime

>

> Your suggestion benefiting the necromancer much more is arguable. The poison you put on it will kill us easily, we won't be able to get rid of the weakness easily for the whole duration of the skill and there is no way in hell that anet will give a skill like that life force without an ICD. From a selfish point of view, you lose damage (a lot), you heavily punish yourself for that throught poison and weakness and you lose defense from weakness applied to your foes. All of that + the loss of a group utility for a tiny amount of life force? That's why I say no. It might look like a great idea but objectively it's not, it's more akin to an heavy nerf.

 

Destroy projectiles? Like MANY other group skills already do. Like i said. Groups should rather want REFLECTION over destruction. The Poison and Weakness on the enemy? Laughable. Do you know how easy it is for Conditions to be turned into Boons? The answer. Very. So the conditions wouldnt be that much of a threat with all the Resistance pumping around and all the AoE condition removal and conversion.

 

The self poison wouldnt be a threat what so ever. I'd take self poison over getting riddled with 10k+ damage from range. The self weakness. I mean that could be changed. Maybe into something like self Vul. It would kinda fit, you take more melee damage to protect yourself from ranged damage.

 

It has good uptime, that is VERY easily countered. The poison and Weakness is kinda meaningless with all the condition removal and conversion, the BIG amounts of Resistance as well helps fight that.

 

I have never seen a time a player has died from a few stacks of Poison, yes it would last a little bit. Hardly going to kill anyone. If THAT would kill you. You've already lost the fight. They could easily put a ICD on it, it wouldnt break it or anything

 

I'd personally say a few seconds of Poison stacks , Weakness (could easily be swapped to Vul) to be able to slightly defend and maybe even get into Melee range of Range spamming projectiles would be worth it. Heavily punish yourself? Not at all. I think you're over estimating how strong a few stacks of poison is. Plus whats the point in damage if you die before you get to that 1,200 - 1,500 range damage?

[Lahmia.2193]

> @UnDeadFun.5824 said:

> I would leave CPC alone for reason noted by Dadnir.5038 and others. I'd rather see them tweak spectral wall, drop the protection and add projectile destruction

 

I'd rather Well of Darkness get projectile block, giving power necro a better choice which fits given that it is a well. But Spectral Wall would work too if anet decided to let us have another.

[Ceit.7619]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

>

> Destroy projectiles? Like MANY other group skills already do. Like i said. Groups should rather want REFLECTION over destruction. The Poison and Weakness on the enemy? Laughable. Do you know how easy it is for Conditions to be turned into Boons? The answer. Very. So the conditions wouldnt be that much of a threat with all the Resistance pumping around and all the AoE condition removal and conversion.

>

> The self poison wouldnt be a threat what so ever. I'd take self poison over getting riddled with 10k+ damage from range. The self weakness. I mean that could be changed. Maybe into something like self Vul. It would kinda fit, you take more melee damage to protect yourself from ranged damage.

>

> It has good uptime, that is VERY easily countered. The poison and Weakness is kinda meaningless with all the condition removal and conversion, the BIG amounts of Resistance as well helps fight that.

>

> I have never seen a time a player has died from a few stacks of Poison, yes it would last a little bit. Hardly going to kill anyone. If THAT would kill you. You've already lost the fight. They could easily put a ICD on it, it wouldnt break it or anything

>

> I'd personally say a few seconds of Poison stacks , Weakness (could easily be swapped to Vul) to be able to slightly defend and maybe even get into Melee range of Range spamming projectiles would be worth it. Heavily punish yourself? Not at all. I think you're over estimating how strong a few stacks of poison is. Plus whats the point in damage if you die before you get to that 1,200 - 1,500 range damage?

 

Just... No. I think the real issue here is your inability to use it effectively. If someone is at 1,500 range, and you're using CPC as a personal shield, the further away they are the more they would have to go around it. It wouldn't just be '2 steps and back to 10k burst zomg!!!11! Looking at the skills you keep comparing it to, le'ts ACTUALLY compare them in full.

 

Wall of Reflection: 10 Second Duration, 30 Second cooldown. Line instead of an aoe, no damage on it's own or additional effects. Traited, will last for 12 Seconds and recharge in 24 Seconds.

 

Feedback: Duration: 6 Seconds, 32 Second cooldown. 25 Second Cooldown in PVP. No damage or additional effects on it's own. Traited will last for 8 Seconds, no recharge reduction.

 

CPC: Duration 8 Seconds, 30 Second cooldown, Causes 4 instances of poison and weakness, and self weakness which is transferable. Traited will reduce the recharge down to 20 seconds and add a mostly irrelevant 2 second cripple to the self conditions.

 

Smoke Field: Duration 7 Seconds, 30 Second cooldown. Causes a 1s blind per second. Traited will reduce recharge to 24 seconds.

 

Sanctuary: Duration 6 Seconds, 75 Second cooldown. Heals for the duration, but foes cannot enter so it cannot be used directly for a fight. Traited will last 8 Seconds and recharge in 60 seconds.

 

These are all the utility skills for projectile defense outside of the ventari skill which I won't cover for obvious reasons. Comparing all 5 of these skills, their usefulness is pretty much on par with each other. If I had to pick the strongest one, I would say Smoke Field due to it having a good uptime and being the best melee defense on top of projectile defense. The question comes into mind of whether the respective game modes would bother traiting for these individual skills, but even assuming it does CPC does not lose out in any major way. It has flat out the best uptime of all projectile destruction for comparing any of these 1 for 1. Lowest traitable recharge of 20 seconds and a very respectable duration of 8 seconds leaves only 12 seconds of downtime until it can be used again. Wall of Reflection has a similar level of uptime but with the tradeoff of having no additional effects other than reflection over destruction. CPC gains some extra play for applying poison and weakness, both helping from a damage point and reducing healing and outgoing damage unless they want to burn cleanses. It can be uses on melee for mitigation and to single out someone from a ranged supporter, and with the changes to Reaper making it more burst oriented, this can be a really big deal. If you seriously think this skill is basically useless, the problem isn't the skill, it's you. Necro has it's share of problems, this isn't one of them.

[Crystal Black.8190]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

 

I expected he would ment that the field is around you and moves with you if you move, like warriors torch fire field.

[Lily.1935]

no. I don't want to lose party support for yet another personal shield. Also, you're stepping on the toes of Spectral skills.

[Swagg.9236]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

 

I've defended allies from projectiles using just my own magnetic aura. Not that I'm fully on-board for the Locust Swarm CPC, but even if the cloud were to only follow the necro, the AoE berth would be extremely generous and allow a necro with half-decent positioning to easily mitigate projectile pressure on allies. Also, a class like reaper would just be in a projectile-user's face, so that's automatically locked down. The only core problem with the skill is the flavor-based self-weakness.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

I've actually found it still useful, if I'm soloing content with a lot of range it's awesome. Drop the cloud and beat them down as they can't hit you. Probably still one of the best skills for handling chak, snipers, and other projectile based mobs. I'm not against it being a mobile cloud around the necro.

[Yogmondminer.5173]

In PvP i usually use it against ranged classes while standing on a point capping, if they dont come to me, they cant dmg me, it's that simple, and tbh in the spur of the moment most players are on me, not 1000 units away anyway, meaning we're both standing in the cloud and i can pull them towards me and reaper their face off while taking minimal dmg.

Works especially well against rangers :D

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> no. I don't want to lose party support for yet another personal shield. Also, you're stepping on the toes of Spectral skills.

 

How so? Because its defensive? A shield? > @"Crystal Black.8190" said:

 

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > How about a no to your idea? Tradding something usefull for your allies to something selfish... No... Just no!

>

> I expected he would ment that the field is around you and moves with you if you move, like warriors torch fire field.

 

It could even be something like the Revenant Hammer block. You could still push forward with it. Protect allies with it but more importantly in terms of WvW (what i play) it wouldnt be so easily countered. In a Blob fight, its not needed there is just so much AoE and blocks and reflections going around that the loss of ONE from a group of like 30-40+ people wont be missed at all.

 

In smaller fights, it would allow you to GET (hopefully) to the person that is range spamming you rather than just the stationary block where. You move forward. They move back waiting for the shield to fall because its going to drop before you get there anyway because you're a necro lol

 

[Sublimatio.6981]

@ op

 

so you suggested 16 sec of weakness that you cant remove because it reapplies every second. please stop suggesting things, immediately.

 

the skill is fine except it should get a noisier animation like from the beta tests. and remove the self-weakness + add some direct dmg pulse so it's an alternative to well of corruption.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @Ceit.7619 said:

 

> These are all the utility skills for projectile defense outside of the ventari skill which I won't cover for obvious reasons. Comparing all 5 of these skills, their usefulness is pretty much on par with each other.

you kinda failed the moment you started comparing projectile reflection to projectile block. CPC will always be worse than Feedback/Wall of Reflection/Whirling Defense and anything else that reflects.

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> @ op

>

> so you suggested 16 sec of weakness that you cant remove because it reapplies every second. please stop suggesting things, immediately.

>

> the skill is fine except it should get a noisier animation like from the beta tests. and remove the self-weakness + add some direct dmg pulse so it's an alternative to well of corruption.

 

Well, given that Necro Corruption skills are about self punishment to get something. I'd take having weakness and being able to GET to my target and deal less damage than have full damage but die before you can use most of it.

 

> @Sublimatio.6981 said:

> you kinda failed the moment you started comparing projectile reflection to projectile block. CPC will always be worse than Feedback/Wall of Reflection/Whirling Defense and anything else that reflects.

 

This. This. This. In blobs and zergs and pretty much everywhere else. Reflection > Destruction. So it procs some pointless weakness and poison, easily removed in blobs with high resistance up time and condi removals.

 

 

[Sarrs.4831]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> Why!? If you beat ANY ranged player using it, the chances were they were either AFK or going to die anyway. I have lost a total of ZERO fights against a Necro and thought "kitten it, if only he didnt have Corrosive Cloud" Yeah it deletes that damage, if the person is stupid enough not to move what so ever to easily counter it.

> I'd take forcing someone to come into MELEE as a better option than for them to move slightly to the side to counter the skill completely and continue to range spam from 1,200+ range away. The weakness wouldnt bother me either, I'd take doing a little less damage but make them come into Melee than to still have that damage but not be able to do anything about it because or mobility sucks and they are waling away from 1,200+ range.

 

It sounds like you're misusing the skill.

 

Do not plant the CPC on the enemy. Plant it on yourself and use your Consume Conditions as soon as you come under pressure to heal off the enemy burst so that you can then deliver your own with impunity using Scepter or Axe.

 

It is 100% a defensive skill and you should absolutely not use it to try to deal damage. Use it to delete projectiles and maybe give yourself a Weakness to send; any poison or weakness that you apply directly through the cloud is gravy.

 

> Who said anything about a corruption build? I am talking about making a poor skill in most situations to be a good personal skill. Its like people assume that the ONLY thing a class should have is AoE. Selfish shields are good as well, i mean its not common for Necro to actually have some sort of defense but maybe coming around to the idea that defense is good might change peoples opinions?

 

I did, I said stuff about a corruption build. It's really good in a MoC build. The 33% cooldown reduction makes this skill much better at its job; deleting ranged projectile pressure, which is one of necromancer's weak points. It's still somewhat useful in a non-corruptions build, but it really shines in an MoC build.

I am really confused about where your perspective is coming from. The skill's useful; I have found a use for it, therefore it is useful. Agree to disagree if you like, but I don't think it needs a buff. What you suggest might even be a downgrade if you do 2+ play.