Still the best MMO on the market.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Thank you, Tigaseye. Very helpful. :)

[Tigaseye.2047]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> Thank you, Tigaseye. Very helpful. :)

 

No problem. :)

[Alga.6498]

GW2 is still good, indeed. But for me and I am sure many other players feel the same, it's a love-hate relationship, we all need a break time to time since we are too bored, angry, sad, etc with GW2, maybe because we are not getting the stuff we really want? Or the unbalanced updates?

Well, however I am still liking GW2 but I am not daily playing it anymore, maybe when we'll get the 3rd expansion announced I will...

 

The best MMO is WoW, no matter what or how. I kinda regret I took GW as my main MMO instead of kept playing WoW sometimes, but then again.... I do fall in love with GW2 but also hate it and want to smash it to pieces.

[Tigaseye.2047]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: In this game, you stand still? You die. In WoW? Pretty much the norm and hope you have a good healer.

 

I've seen videos of early WoW, when it was like that.

 

Even in top raid guilds, they were all just stacking and standing still, during raids, being healed.

 

But, by the time I started playing (in Cata), it was no longer like that.

 

You (generally) had to move - because, even with a good healer, if you didn't you died.

 

There were still times when you were expected to stack; but, they became fewer and further between.

 

Actually, one of my complaints about this game (i.e. GW2), when I first started playing, was that everyone expected you to stack in the corner and melee, in dungeons, all the time.

 

They may still do, for all I know?

 

I only really do WvW here, now.

[sorudo.9054]

when i can get some decent armor skins in WoW but GW2 has everything locked behind....everything team based, i can't really call GW2 the best around.

i can solo a dungeon in WoW, get tons of skins on my own without breaking a sweat.

in GW2 only some basic skins can be gained, the rest is with ridicules grind and horrible team based game modes. (like dungeons or raids)

and then you have the team balance, only a few are vailable.

i know WoW doesn't have the best balance but at least every class can be used without complaining, play a necro and go to raids.....i dare you.

 

so no, even if i look at other MMO's GW2 is nowhere near the best, even cheap MMO's have stuff better done then GW2.

[folk.8190]

> @"Wander.5780" said:

> After giving WoW another try with Legion and being left disappointed for the 3rd time in a row, being disappointed and feeling ripped-off from Zenimax and their opportunistic cash grab release of Morrowind for ESO, and playing the vapid, grindy borefest called FFXIV Stormblood, I can say with certainty this is the most enjoyable, and immersive MMO out there. I was one of the people that was really upset with the direction of this game once HoT was released, and was questioning the priorities of the devs with the Legendary delays, and the LS being put off for so long. But I have to say, with the release of PoF I have completely fallen in love with this game again, and I am glad that ANET addressed many of the problems that existed with HoT. I'm really looking forward to the new LS season and the future of this game.

 

many other games are qualitatively different from GW, **more advanced and modern** , requiring **much less time,** with a **completely different visual style**. Gw is the best game on the market MMO? **Definitely not**. The best atmosphere among the MMO? **Definitely yes.**

 

 

[AlexVv.3965]

I think now there is no better MMO. The last best MMO was the WoW of the times of the Lich King.

[Wander.5780]

GW2 has no monthly sub and we basically get free "chapters" every 3-4 months with the LW, something that you get only on rent with ESO Plus so long as you have that sub up... if you stop paying you lose access to all that content even if you've paid their sub fee for years. I'll take this game in a heartbeat despite the gem store being an annoyance.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> when i can get some decent armor skins in WoW but GW2 has everything locked behind....everything team based, i can't really call GW2 the best around.

> **i can solo a dungeon in WoW, get tons of skins on my own without breaking a sweat.**

> in GW2 only some basic skins can be gained, the rest is with ridicules grind and horrible team based game modes. (like dungeons or raids)

> and then you have the team balance, only a few are vailable.

> i know WoW doesn't have the best balance but at least every class can be used without complaining, play a necro and go to raids.....i dare you.

>

> so no, even if i look at other MMO's GW2 is nowhere near the best, even cheap MMO's have stuff better done then GW2.

 

Soloing dungeons.

 

Isn’t that only after an expansion has been released and the level cap raised? Which would mean that yes you can solo previous expansion’s dungeons but you have to wait till the next expansion, 2 years or more. Waiting 2+ years to get skins easily can be called doing it with no grind but imo it’s not really something to call out as better. (It’s most certainly not faster) And as for current level dungeons in WoW. My understanding is you have to roll on the drops among the whole group. You might win it if it drops but you probably won’t and will have to rerun the dungeon to try again. You don’t get tokens which advance you towards buying the skin you want. That method sounds like more grind to me than ANet’s token system.

 

Edit: something else you didn’t mention. WoW’s is old but its wardrobe system is not. It’s only a year or two old, I believe July 2016. So all the dungeon runs for skins is filling out a wardrobe that wasn’t around when those dungeons were current content. Once that’s done then all the new dungeon skins will be in current expansion dungeons, where you’ll need to group up and roll for your chance to get a drop. Saying how easy it is to fill out WoWs wardrobe from past expansions is like gw2 players getting the new wardrobe back then and getting skins to fill it out from killing mobs in Queensdale. Once that’s done it back to doing current content.

[STIHL.2489]

This is a great MMO, I am just directionless at the moment.

[Scipion.7548]

GW2 would be a great game and better than WoW for me if :

- i could really play a tanky support with my guardian, as it was stated when I created my character, in every game mode (like it would be meta). Blizzard said I can play a healer shaman, and yes I can. Anet said I can play a true tanky support hybrid, and no I can't, the meta boys say I have to be a full berserker Dragon Hunter DPS. I have to play the beastmaster guy to be support or a light armored pink wizard to be tanky. What the hell ?

- wings, bunny ears and other breaking immersion things didn't exist

- more pvp game mode being available, not just conquest

- racial mounts, available to other races after some grinding or at store

[Despond.2174]

It truly is. No MMO is flawless but how GW2 handles end game content and the gear system is second to none. Many GW2 players don't realize how good they have it until they try other MMOs. There's not enough hours in the day for me, there's so much to always do in this game and all my efforts into gear are rewarded with never having to do it again. Sure there's plenty of issues, but you have to weigh up the pros and cons, and the pros of GW2 vastly beats the cons.

 

It also has the most balanced cash shop system of all the big MMOs while still offering REALISTIC in-game methods such as SW, Istan, Achievement boxes etc to acquire gear+gold. And the cost of the 2 expansions is less than what people had to pay for the original, which is FREE, so it's very new player friendly while rewarding long-time players with things such as AP etc. The difficulty is decent too, easy to learn and hard to master which is always the best system.

 

It's still unbelievable how spread and viable nearly all the content is. They did this well by attaching achievements and metas across all of Tyria. One thing ends, 5 more start up. Other MMOs I've logged in, do dailies and log out, everything before the current xpac is a ghost town etc. If you play alts and more than 1 mode, GW2 covers everything better than the other top MMOs.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> >

> > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> >

> > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> >

> > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> >

> >

>

> I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

>

> Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

>

> This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

 

U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Scipion.7548" said:

> GW2 would be a great game and better than WoW for me if :

> - i could really play a tanky support with my guardian, as it was stated when I created my character, in every game mode (like it would be meta). Blizzard said I can play a healer shaman, and yes I can. Anet said I can play a true tanky support hybrid, and no I can't, the meta boys say I have to be a full berserker Dragon Hunter DPS. I have to play the beastmaster guy to be support or a light armored pink wizard to be tanky. What the hell ?

> - wings, bunny ears and other breaking immersion things didn't exist

> - more pvp game mode being available, not just conquest

> - racial mounts, available to other races after some grinding or at store

 

Giv gvg and arenas plox

[Leo G.4501]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > >

> > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > >

> > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > >

> > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> >

> > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> >

> > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

>

> U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

 

And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

[MrRuin.9740]

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> I'm more interested in how the MMORPGs as a whole are dying. They are all losing players, no new big MMO has been released recently, there is no AAA MMORPG coming any time soon... Looks like the genre won't last long now. Online first person shooters and single player RPGs appear to be all the rage these days.

 

It's really no surprise. Look at what they became as a whole. Cashgrabs. Forever grind. Gear treadmills. Microtransactions like crazy. Pay to win mechanics. Severe imbalances. There's very little actual substance in a lot of MMO's. Now, I'm not saying they are all like that or all to the same degree, but so many are that the genre image is forever tarnished. They are like the PC equivalent of candy crush. GW2 is the only MMO I play at all anymore, because I really like WvW here. Not to sound like an old-timer, but MMO's used to be fun, long adventures with friends new and old. Now, they feel like something to be consumed as quick as possible. Buy this, that and the other, get the best stuff then move onto the next game.

While I agree with the thread title, that GW2 is the best MMO out there......to me it's better worded that GW2 is the least bad one.

 

[jbrother.1340]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> Yes, this is still the best value for money MMO in the market which I think is also the reason for their sloppy developments and decisions.

 

This is I feel the best way to view this.

 

This may or may not be the best mmo on the market but it really does have a lot of value for the money you spend.

[jbrother.1340]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > i too went back to wow some time last year and it felt....SO kitten SLOW.

> > swing your sword and only hit a single enemy?

> > can't do anything while moving?

> > DOWNTIME?

> >

> > and then there is the MONTHLY FEE?!

> >

> > yep gw2 is currently the best, i wish there were way more armours though.

>

> So GW2 is the best because you don't have to use your brain and you can just do everything with everything, anytime?

 

do you actually play this game?

[ScottBroChill.3254]

This game is the bees knees and the ease of playing and getting things done is so smooth I think we often forget and take it for granted how nice it is. I think some of the complaints we see are due to what an MMO normally focuses its efforts on and what GW2 focuses on. GW2 has less concern for fancy grinding, raiding being the focal point, and intensive pvp development. They do focus on these and balance and implement new content, but not to the extent I think a lot of people are used to. But instead they focus on the adventure aspects of the game, the smooth gameplay, and the large meta events that are fun and inclusive for everyone. I think its a fair trade off, but sometimes people expect from GW2 what they got from other games and it can often lead to disappointment. GW2 still offers more than any other MMO I think, besides like WoW (which I haven't really played).

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Don't tell us! We already know! Go out there and tell other people who do not know! Get us some more fresh mea..., I mean, new players!

[zealex.9410]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > > >

> > > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > > >

> > > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > > >

> > > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> > >

> > > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> > >

> > > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

> >

> > U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

>

> And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

 

Ye gs its pretty neat to run with dh. And lb is really good in wvw zerg play.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > > > >

> > > > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > > > >

> > > > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > > > >

> > > > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> > > >

> > > > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> > > >

> > > > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

> > >

> > > U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

> >

> > And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

>

> Ye gs its pretty neat to run with dh. And lb is really good in wvw zerg play.

 

And they only had to nerf the crap out of FB support to get to that point.

 

At the end of the day, you're just praising the act of going around in circles chasing the tail of the meta that you won't catch.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> > > > >

> > > > > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> > > > >

> > > > > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

> > > >

> > > > U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

> > >

> > > And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

> >

> > Ye gs its pretty neat to run with dh. And lb is really good in wvw zerg play.

>

> And they only had to nerf the crap out of FB support to get to that point.

>

> At the end of the day, you're just praising the act of going around in circles chasing the tail of the meta that you won't catch.

 

Nah Fb was and argueably still is insane in wvw. Not every summon is bis but lets not kid ourselves they are better than what they were before.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

> > > > >

> > > > > U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

> > > >

> > > > And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

> > >

> > > Ye gs its pretty neat to run with dh. And lb is really good in wvw zerg play.

> >

> > And they only had to nerf the crap out of FB support to get to that point.

> >

> > At the end of the day, you're just praising the act of going around in circles chasing the tail of the meta that you won't catch.

>

> Nah Fb was and argueably still is insane in wvw. Not every summon is bis but lets not kid ourselves they are better than what they were before.

 

A common problem of posters arguing on internet forums: strawman argument.

 

Never said Spirit Weapons were worse so saying the contrary is disingenuous. What I did say is, changing them in the hopes of making them meta is unnecessary because the players set the meta. Just because spirit weapons are better than they were won't change that they aren't meta and making them generic AoEs is only homogenizing gameplay.

 

Your argument basically amounts to "they changed them so now I will use them" while ignoring the fact others will now NOT use them which, if trends continue, can harm the game overall.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > U are also oblivious to the point that much like phantasms vs shatter spirits weapons were a playstyle that if u chose to spec around u were shooting your self in the foot. Not they remain quite unique still while also be alot better.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I'm sure there's a great meta for Spirit Weapon Guard/DH/FB out there too...it was all worth it!

> > > >

> > > > Ye gs its pretty neat to run with dh. And lb is really good in wvw zerg play.

> > >

> > > And they only had to nerf the crap out of FB support to get to that point.

> > >

> > > At the end of the day, you're just praising the act of going around in circles chasing the tail of the meta that you won't catch.

> >

> > Nah Fb was and argueably still is insane in wvw. Not every summon is bis but lets not kid ourselves they are better than what they were before.

>

> A common problem of posters arguing on internet forums: strawman argument.

>

> Never said Spirit Weapons were worse so saying the contrary is disingenuous. What I did say is, changing them in the hopes of making them meta is unnecessary because the players set the meta. Just because spirit weapons are better than they were won't change that they aren't meta and making them generic AoEs is only homogenizing gameplay.

>

> Your argument basically amounts to "they changed them so now I will use them" while ignoring the fact others will now NOT use them which, if trends continue, can harm the game overall.

 

They werent changed in hopes of becoming meta. They were changed because they were problematic. If they wanted them to be meta they would tweak numbers and be done.

 

Example being how they went about slowly buffing axe on necro over time. They didnt aim for it to become meta in one go they wanted it slowly get it to a state where its a good choice.

 

And your arguement is "they changed them so i wont use them" while ignoring the fact that others will. Biggest example being the mesmer rework and how if it didmt had happened it would further hurt mesmer down the line. Despite some ppl liking the previous iteration more.