Suggestion: limit no fly and no mount zones

[Game of Bones.8975]

It's only cheating in the eyes of a person who chooses to not to use all the game functions.

The laws, or rules, are written into the code as to what is or isn't allowed. Only if a person goes in with a 3rd party app or rewrites part of the original code is it really cheating.

As long as everyone has access to the same modes of travel to get through the JP, it's up to the player to choose the best route for themselves.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

You have to remember, that I'm not saying people are cheating if they use a portal. As you said, they're just doing what is available to them in-game. My point is that the developers, and not the players, made a serious error by removing the challenge from jumping puzzles. The rewards are horrible and get you nothing for completing all of them - because anyone can do them thanks to Mesmer portals. But if they had took a different approach, they could have just disallowed portals and kept the challenge with good rewards. I don't think it needs to be like the Clocktower with an empty hands bundle... just disallow portal abilities.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

The Joy of Movement unless you're in some chosen area (that sometimes extends far beyond where it would be "needed"). It's does nothing but annoy a lot of players because as some people have said Mesmer portals are still allowed and faster usually. This game punishes creativity in a lot of ways. Get the drop on a mob from higher ground? Nah, it has insane regen that's almost impossible to break through because it's not allowed to hit you. Stuff like that.

[Shirlias.8104]

Since the mount arrived, there's no sense in limit them.

 

Also, pof has only a few wp.

There should be 3x per map, in tactics zones, in order to allow players to play without mounts

[YoukiNeko.6047]

Remove the loot from all JPs and allow mounts and gliders.

Apart from maybe some title for clearing them all I don't see why they added the loot chest at the end.

If I like the JP I'll do it many times even if there is no rewards (cause the completion is the reward itself).

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > I don't really get what you mean. The puzzles were made with the idea you would be jumping through them to the end, not with a mount. They didn't restrict mesmer portals and this was their worst mistake. It completely cheapens the achievement. They made the decision to hand candies out and let everyone get the achievement but why? Do you feel good you got it?

> > >

> >

> > The objective is to get from point A to Z

> >

> > How you get there varies from person to person. If Bob gets there from only jumping left, but Suzie gets there from Jumping Right, and Egert get there from using a portal does it matter as the end results are the same ?

> >

> > This is the point. It doesn't matter how you get there. The end goal is that you do and to that end mounts/gliders/items/skills i dont see as an issue as each one opens up a diverse solutions for solving the puzzle.

>

> Are you really arguing that point? You're purposefully being ignorant here. It's not a diverse solution. It's boring. There was no challenge. Forget Suzie went left, John went right and Harry hopped on his springer. The puzzles were designed to be played by jumping - usually down a linear route. Why don't they put an elevator at the end and forget the whole thing? Don't be stupid, Suzie and John, and even you Harry. Forget the mount and portal guys, let's just take the elevator straight to the finishing line - its a new creative way to finish the JP.

 

Which... you yourself can do. I don't see why if you want to play one way but someone found another way of doing it you're trying to set them in your way.

 

Okay here's one thing. It's, of course, drastic unless it's in person on my own computer... if let's say I couldn't beat a jumping puzzle and no mounts or portals would work... what's stopping me from just letting a friend who I know that can beat it to simply beat it for me?

 

I mean seriously if let's say I couldn't have beaten the Mad King Tower for example but I knew someone who could've beaten it for me, then um... would you try to hit me with a ruler and going, "No! Bad! Bad Yumi! Bad! No!" or something?

Yeah just even doing that I took out the challenge out of it for me, but what I'm getting at is there are so many solutions on someone getting to the end.

 

They exploit it or do it fair.

It's 2 points for the achievement to do it once every on an account and the items in it is never every worth it... no matter which maps the puzzle on.

 

Majority of the time, people will only do the puzzle if they get something out of it, or "well it's a daily" and they know a mesmer is there to port them.

I myself usually try to make it my duty to beat each puzzle at least once the right way to the end to see how it is. After that, I will find any exploitation to get back there another time because I've done it already and find the majority of them to be unfun.

 

Still, find it shocking how you're like that on how someone else plays that doesn't affect you in any way.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > > I don't really get what you mean. The puzzles were made with the idea you would be jumping through them to the end, not with a mount. They didn't restrict mesmer portals and this was their worst mistake. It completely cheapens the achievement. They made the decision to hand candies out and let everyone get the achievement but why? Do you feel good you got it?

> > > >

> > >

> > > The objective is to get from point A to Z

> > >

> > > How you get there varies from person to person. If Bob gets there from only jumping left, but Suzie gets there from Jumping Right, and Egert get there from using a portal does it matter as the end results are the same ?

> > >

> > > This is the point. It doesn't matter how you get there. The end goal is that you do and to that end mounts/gliders/items/skills i dont see as an issue as each one opens up a diverse solutions for solving the puzzle.

> >

> > Are you really arguing that point? You're purposefully being ignorant here. It's not a diverse solution. It's boring. There was no challenge. Forget Suzie went left, John went right and Harry hopped on his springer. The puzzles were designed to be played by jumping - usually down a linear route. Why don't they put an elevator at the end and forget the whole thing? Don't be stupid, Suzie and John, and even you Harry. Forget the mount and portal guys, let's just take the elevator straight to the finishing line - its a new creative way to finish the JP.

>

> Which... you yourself can do. I don't see why if you want to play one way but someone found another way of doing it you're trying to set them in your way.

>

> Okay here's one thing. It's, of course, drastic unless it's in person on my own computer... if let's say I couldn't beat a jumping puzzle and no mounts or portals would work... what's stopping me from just letting a friend who I know that can beat it to simply beat it for me?

>

> I mean seriously if let's say I couldn't have beaten the Mad King Tower for example but I knew someone who could've beaten it for me, then um... would you try to hit me with a ruler and going, "No! Bad! Bad Yumi! Bad! No!" or something?

> Yeah just even doing that I took out the challenge out of it for me, but what I'm getting at is there are so many solutions on someone getting to the end.

>

> They exploit it or do it fair.

> It's 2 points for the achievement to do it once every on an account and the items in it is never every worth it... no matter which maps the puzzle on.

>

> Majority of the time, people will only do the puzzle if they get something out of it, or "well it's a daily" and they know a mesmer is there to port them.

> I myself usually try to make it my duty to beat each puzzle at least once the right way to the end to see how it is. After that, I will find any exploitation to get back there another time because I've done it already and find the majority of them to be unfun.

>

> Still, find it shocking how you're like that on how someone else plays that doesn't affect you in any way.

 

What's stopping you from getting a friend to do it for you on your account? Practicality. Availability. The question is - DO you have a friend who would do it for you? Even if you don't know someone like that in real life, would you go to such lengths you'd give your account details away to complete a JP? Your example could be applied to current content too. Oh you did some high-end raid content? Well we need to make sure who was on your account first. At least someone is legitimately doing the puzzle in this scenario.

 

You find it shocking that I'm taking this view, because you say it doesn't affect me. That's quite simply wrong. Because the approach by Arenanet was so casual and thoughtless, we lost out on good rewards for completing the puzzle. I was doing one jumping puzzle which was really really hard, and it was kind of annoying at one point where someone's portal was making it harder for me to progress because it actually covered a small platform, the surface area of which was hard to see.

[Seera.5916]

> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > > > I don't really get what you mean. The puzzles were made with the idea you would be jumping through them to the end, not with a mount. They didn't restrict mesmer portals and this was their worst mistake. It completely cheapens the achievement. They made the decision to hand candies out and let everyone get the achievement but why? Do you feel good you got it?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The objective is to get from point A to Z

> > > >

> > > > How you get there varies from person to person. If Bob gets there from only jumping left, but Suzie gets there from Jumping Right, and Egert get there from using a portal does it matter as the end results are the same ?

> > > >

> > > > This is the point. It doesn't matter how you get there. The end goal is that you do and to that end mounts/gliders/items/skills i dont see as an issue as each one opens up a diverse solutions for solving the puzzle.

> > >

> > > Are you really arguing that point? You're purposefully being ignorant here. It's not a diverse solution. It's boring. There was no challenge. Forget Suzie went left, John went right and Harry hopped on his springer. The puzzles were designed to be played by jumping - usually down a linear route. Why don't they put an elevator at the end and forget the whole thing? Don't be stupid, Suzie and John, and even you Harry. Forget the mount and portal guys, let's just take the elevator straight to the finishing line - its a new creative way to finish the JP.

> >

> > Which... you yourself can do. I don't see why if you want to play one way but someone found another way of doing it you're trying to set them in your way.

> >

> > Okay here's one thing. It's, of course, drastic unless it's in person on my own computer... if let's say I couldn't beat a jumping puzzle and no mounts or portals would work... what's stopping me from just letting a friend who I know that can beat it to simply beat it for me?

> >

> > I mean seriously if let's say I couldn't have beaten the Mad King Tower for example but I knew someone who could've beaten it for me, then um... would you try to hit me with a ruler and going, "No! Bad! Bad Yumi! Bad! No!" or something?

> > Yeah just even doing that I took out the challenge out of it for me, but what I'm getting at is there are so many solutions on someone getting to the end.

> >

> > They exploit it or do it fair.

> > It's 2 points for the achievement to do it once every on an account and the items in it is never every worth it... no matter which maps the puzzle on.

> >

> > Majority of the time, people will only do the puzzle if they get something out of it, or "well it's a daily" and they know a mesmer is there to port them.

> > I myself usually try to make it my duty to beat each puzzle at least once the right way to the end to see how it is. After that, I will find any exploitation to get back there another time because I've done it already and find the majority of them to be unfun.

> >

> > Still, find it shocking how you're like that on how someone else plays that doesn't affect you in any way.

>

> What's stopping you from getting a friend to do it for you on your account? Practicality. Availability. The question is - DO you have a friend who would do it for you? Even if you don't know someone like that in real life, would you go to such lengths you'd give your account details away to complete a JP? Your example could be applied to current content too. Oh you did some high-end raid content? Well we need to make sure who was on your account first. At least someone is legitimately doing the puzzle in this scenario.

>

> You find it shocking that I'm taking this view, because you say it doesn't affect me. That's quite simply wrong. Because the approach by Arenanet was so casual and thoughtless, we lost out on good rewards for completing the puzzle. I was doing one jumping puzzle which was really really hard, and it was kind of annoying at one point where someone's portal was making it harder for me to progress because it actually covered a small platform, the surface area of which was hard to see.

 

Rewards for doing jumping puzzles were never great to begin with, so not sure how we lost out on good rewards.

 

Jumping puzzles to me are the Easter eggs of the maps. Meant to be something you stumble upon and get a small little reward for completing it so that players who aren't that good at jumping puzzles don't feel left out if they do not wish to use other means to bypass the jumping puzzle where possible. There isn't even a title associated with completing any or even all of the jumping puzzles. Just AP for each individual one - and you only get the AP once.

 

The mesmer that put it there, may have been helping a friend who had fallen to that level from an area above or had placed one end of it knowing that he tends to mess up there. I don't disagree that it is annoying, especially if you were in a good rhythm with the jumping puzzle that the portal interrupted. But I don't think the few instances where that does happen outweighs the benefits of portal usage in a jumping puzzle. And if the players want to cheat and get the AP without doing the puzzle, then that's fine by me. It doesn't make my feeling accomplishment worth any less.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> > > > > I don't really get what you mean. The puzzles were made with the idea you would be jumping through them to the end, not with a mount. They didn't restrict mesmer portals and this was their worst mistake. It completely cheapens the achievement. They made the decision to hand candies out and let everyone get the achievement but why? Do you feel good you got it?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The objective is to get from point A to Z

> > > >

> > > > How you get there varies from person to person. If Bob gets there from only jumping left, but Suzie gets there from Jumping Right, and Egert get there from using a portal does it matter as the end results are the same ?

> > > >

> > > > This is the point. It doesn't matter how you get there. The end goal is that you do and to that end mounts/gliders/items/skills i dont see as an issue as each one opens up a diverse solutions for solving the puzzle.

> > >

> > > Are you really arguing that point? You're purposefully being ignorant here. It's not a diverse solution. It's boring. There was no challenge. Forget Suzie went left, John went right and Harry hopped on his springer. The puzzles were designed to be played by jumping - usually down a linear route. Why don't they put an elevator at the end and forget the whole thing? Don't be stupid, Suzie and John, and even you Harry. Forget the mount and portal guys, let's just take the elevator straight to the finishing line - its a new creative way to finish the JP.

> >

> > Which... you yourself can do. I don't see why if you want to play one way but someone found another way of doing it you're trying to set them in your way.

> >

> > Okay here's one thing. It's, of course, drastic unless it's in person on my own computer... if let's say I couldn't beat a jumping puzzle and no mounts or portals would work... what's stopping me from just letting a friend who I know that can beat it to simply beat it for me?

> >

> > I mean seriously if let's say I couldn't have beaten the Mad King Tower for example but I knew someone who could've beaten it for me, then um... would you try to hit me with a ruler and going, "No! Bad! Bad Yumi! Bad! No!" or something?

> > Yeah just even doing that I took out the challenge out of it for me, but what I'm getting at is there are so many solutions on someone getting to the end.

> >

> > They exploit it or do it fair.

> > It's 2 points for the achievement to do it once every on an account and the items in it is never every worth it... no matter which maps the puzzle on.

> >

> > Majority of the time, people will only do the puzzle if they get something out of it, or "well it's a daily" and they know a mesmer is there to port them.

> > I myself usually try to make it my duty to beat each puzzle at least once the right way to the end to see how it is. After that, I will find any exploitation to get back there another time because I've done it already and find the majority of them to be unfun.

> >

> > Still, find it shocking how you're like that on how someone else plays that doesn't affect you in any way.

>

> What's stopping you from getting a friend to do it for you on your account? Practicality. Availability. The question is - DO you have a friend who would do it for you? Even if you don't know someone like that in real life, would you go to such lengths you'd give your account details away to complete a JP? Your example could be applied to current content too. Oh you did some high-end raid content? Well we need to make sure who was on your account first. At least someone is legitimately doing the puzzle in this scenario.

>

> You find it shocking that I'm taking this view, because you say it doesn't affect me. That's quite simply wrong. Because the approach by Arenanet was so casual and thoughtless, we lost out on good rewards for completing the puzzle. I was doing one jumping puzzle which was really really hard, and it was kind of annoying at one point where someone's portal was making it harder for me to progress because it actually covered a small platform, the surface area of which was hard to see.

 

If you honestly must know? One of my friends actually tells me to play on their account from time to time to do certain things in the game if they miss out on doing it or simply can't.

One of them? Jumping Puzzles (that isn't Mad King Tower as doing that once for myself was enough... screw that thing...). I don't see the problem in doing it for him as well.. he wants them done whether it's for the little little bit of achievements you get out of it or if it's a daily that he won't have time to get to as maybe they would get on too late during a certain time and would miss it or something.

 

I also got 2 friends who I literally chauffeur them through certain maps at times.

Like one of them got HoT recently (not too recent but a few weeks after PoF came out as they wanted to try out the HoT elites and of course wanted the glider and other things).

They couldn't stand a lot of the stuff and they personally wanted at least some of the glider stuff completed quickly.

So... I got on my Mirage and portal them everywhere as I had the stuff to get through it. I've been through that one jumping puzzle in Brink that had a mastery point at the end... never wanted to do it again so.... I used my griffon to get up there and then portaled my friend to the end. There was other people there trying to do it and asked "Can I get a portal up there too?" So I did it.

You might call them and my actions vile and disgusting because I'm taking away the "value" in the reward of them doing it themselves... many times? They don't value it really and just wanted to get it done.

I don't find value in the Mad King Tower just because "Yay I got the lunatic boots". I was more of "Good, good riddance to this thing that I don't have to do that crap again."

Because in the end, I could've just crafted the boots myself (which I did for the other 2 weights anyway as I wanted the ghost necronomicon book thing backpack).

 

People have their own views on what they find fun/rewarding/exciting/worth it.

Just because they don't see one thing your way doesn't mean they should do it your way or no way at all.

 

People find 100% map completion at times not worth it. I do and I like doing it even though I will probably never use the gift of explorations I got because I have no plans on ever making a legendary weapon, but I still like it while I see no value in something like WvW and PvP. It's called point of views and opinions.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

There's nothing mounts can do to trivialize jps that mesmers didn't do right out of the gate.

 

> @sorudo.9054 said:

> the only thing that annoys me is the part where they extend the no fly/mount zone to an extreme level, a whole area in LA can't be used with mounts just because 200M further there is a JP, a JP that is allot easier without mounts and gliding has no use anyway.

Or the entire northwest of Southsun being one, even at ground level, because of Skipping Stones. Or that one area in Dredgehaunt (where the spider guild rush is) that's not even a jp but still has a no-glide zone for no reason at all.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> > Wait.. the loot of jumping puzzles can be lowered?????

>

> Of course. To maybe 1 copper.

 

or to a soulbound 4 slot bag. ;)

[Arizan.1073]

your complaint is valid but your solution is not .

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I find the no mount zone around the Dry Top JP annoying. The jumping crystal uses weapon 1 key to jump while the mounts uses the jump key. I have to switch to the jumping crystal when I start the way up to the first quartz so my reflex has time to get used to jumping with another key. Besides that it's pointless to have a no mount zone there since the jumping crystals do the same thing as the springer. Why care if someone uses the springer instead of the crystal to jump up it?

 

It's possible they did it because they don't want people using the fly off with the griffon. This again is pointless since you can glide and activate the griffon shortly after leaving the platform. There is also the fact that people do ports up JPs which makes the zones pointless and only meant to punish players who lack the dexterity to do JPs and have no one to port them.

 

 

[Blude.6812]

Another selfish 'play the game how I want you all to play' topic from the OP. It doesn't harm you in anyway. If you want to jump all the puzzles, you can. If someone else wants to glide or use a mount they can. It has no impact on yours or anyone else for that matter other then getting their shorts in knot because they don't want others to play in a different way. I did all the JPs 'properly' and only do them now for the odd daily and really can't be bothered to redo them. So just play how you want and let others play how they want. No need for any change whatsoever.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

The problem is that the developers went out of their way to put in no mount no glider or just no mount or just no glider zones into these jumping puzzles without any form of consistency. I wish they would: Either allow them all, or make a uniform solution like OP is suggesting if the devs feel like a jumping puzzle needs to be done in a certain way.

 

You can argue all you like whether it's necessary, or whether it's just forcing players to play a certain way. (Which game devs do all the time btw, they are the ones setting the boundaries of what we can do in the game after all) But at least don't make a huge mess out of the game world around Jumping puzzle areas because gliding is allowed but not mounts but then mounts are allowed but not gliding. And then really hard ones which have specific counter measures against gliding can be done trivially easy with mounts. It feels really messy the way they "solved" but not always solved the way jumping puzzles are done with these jumping puzzle feature blocks.

 

I can see where OP is coming from, tbh. But everyone is too busy jumping on some sort of moral high ground that doesn't really exist.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Jp are one of the true tests of personal skill. They don't require help from anyone else and require you to have a high degree of movement skill. They should add more, and harder jumping puzzles where you can't use mounts or portals and increase the loot substantially.

[Irreverent.3594]

I would love it too but never gonna happen because of just one thing: mesmer portal :(

[Ardid.7203]

Make the reward for people who has not used portals or mounts better than the rest.

Allow everything everywhere.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> The problem is that the developers went out of their way to put in no mount no glider or just no mount or just no glider zones into these jumping puzzles without any form of consistency. I wish they would: Either allow them all, or make a uniform solution like OP is suggesting if the devs feel like a jumping puzzle needs to be done in a certain way.

>

> You can argue all you like whether it's necessary, or whether it's just forcing players to play a certain way. (Which game devs do all the time btw, they are the ones setting the boundaries of what we can do in the game after all) But at least don't make a huge mess out of the game world around Jumping puzzle areas because gliding is allowed but not mounts but then mounts are allowed but not gliding. And then really hard ones which have specific counter measures against gliding can be done trivially easy with mounts. It feels really messy the way they "solved" but not always solved the way jumping puzzles are done with these jumping puzzle feature blocks.

>

> I can see where OP is coming from, tbh. But everyone is too busy jumping on some sort of moral high ground that doesn't really exist.

 

I do agree.

Though somebody could say that it does not influence any other player, and it could be a legit call.

 

> If i do the JP with mount instead by foot, is this a problem for you?

 

I'd say that it would be only a problem if there's a reward at the end.

 

* Daily JP

* Chest ( which also brings on the table the problem of parked alts )

* Portal Selling

 

However, it would be awesome if they decided to limit mounts there and also add WP's in order to prevent portals and parked alts.

They should also incrase the rewards, or simply put another chest each checkpoint ( tsw farm is about 25/40g per hour, so the chests won't be a problem ).

 

 

[Pifil.5193]

I'd be quite happy with just about any changes so long as they move the no-mount zone off the ground. That way if I'm just riding past then I won't get dismounted but if I try to jump I hit the no-mount zone and get forcibly dismounted right away.

 

Personally, I don't see any need for these zones at all; jumping puzzles give terrible rewards and as has been pointed out countless times all you need is a friendly mesmer to trivialise any jumping puzzle.

[Phil.7369]

actually they should put a no mount zone in cities and in the PVP lobby. This will reduce the lag in LA and will make mount skins less trivial -> every time you see them they will be more appealing. This is an actual subconscious thing, read it the more you see something the more ordinary and dull it becomes to your eyes.

[Mystic Angelique.4021]

..........

[Doghouse.1562]

> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> The puzzles were made with the idea you would be jumping through them to the end

Sorry, but your whole argument seems predicated on that assumption, yet the mere fact that ANet allowed portals in JPs from day one shows that it's flawed.

 

Feel free to play the game the way you want to play, by all means; take pride in your skills, sure. But don't rag on other people for not having identical values. And if ANet permit some people to do JPs an "easier" way - I utterly disagree. It **doesn't** "cheapen" the achievement. Unless the only way you measure yourself is against other people, and what you **really** want is bragging rights. In which case - tough, that's mostly not the way the game is structured.