About the new fractal

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> Also perhaps double the length of potion time for higher fractals? :smile:

. * cough cough * this is why.... infinite potion is useful here teehee :x highly recommend to invest into that

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

>

> One more small thing to perhaps consider: the current implementation of hamstrung seems extremely punishing in some fractals as movement is crucial and with hamstrung being hit couple times means cascading failure -- especially in initial phase of bloomhunger where even using the gun won't help much. Can it be capped at 33% (kind of like being frozen?). That'd probably help a lot as most PUG failures I see in bloomhunger happen in initial phase. (I hate vindicators and toxic trail too, but I guess we're stuck with those)

>

> Also perhaps double the length of potion time for higher fractals? :smile:

 

I think you mean the initial part of swamp, not actually bloomhunger, right? Never really had any issues there myself.

I do have more issue with hamstrung in Nightmare. Especially on the big middle circle just before the second boss. Getting hit once by a ball, aoe or a hallucination. inevitably ends up with you dead because the damage then snowballs from you being slow, which makes it impossible to move to safety on characters without big movement abilities.

[Samnang.1879]

just make it so we only fight 1 group of mobs then straight to boss. at the moment, i don't pug t4 twilight cuz you spend like 20mins clearing mobs only to find out ur team can't kill the end boss cuz they keep downing. I only do t3 Twilight cuz i know i can carry 4 others. while in t4 i can hardly carry myself much less another person.

 

i like the current difficulty of Twilight Oasis. and i love that the boss has a diverse attack options, and not just 1,2,3. i wish more bosses were like that. it's so much fun to fight different classes of boss, i was hoping she would turn to guardian or engineer.

[maxwelgm.4315]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > lfr was prob the one worst thing that was added to wow right next to lfg.

>

> The idea of LFR is good on paper but it was implemented poorly and then further twisted by the vocal minority. LFR in WoW basically removes the raid from raiding due to making the content unfailable, with no organization or communication.

>

> My big issue with LFG in WoW is the complete automation of it. I was happy that I no longer had to stand in front of the dungeon entrance for hours yelling for what my group needed but at the cost of removing all forms of communication it honestly wasn't worth it. People just get auto matched with each other and leave when the instance is cleared.

>

> It is an MMO. Group content should require you to communicate with each other.

>

>

 

Well isn't it ironic, that the poll on why people don't raid in the general discussion has the highest % option on what is basically "I don't like the group aspect of raids". I'm not going to dwell into this discussion on a video game forum, but this is probably a symptom of how we treat communication in real life as well. Sitting idly waiting for a meeting without looking at a cell phone is unforgivable today, so why would people wait together to play a game while having chat?

 

It's also the same reason I don't try to raid very often, I don't want to have to wait to play. And even though I am giving this reason to not play said content, I also think it would be kinda sad to get LFR as well. Kitten, it is how I do fractals nowadays: log on, get dailies, sometimes people won't even thank each other for the run, then sell junk and leave. I guess I have already taken away the group aspect from my gaming, and I don't know any solution to raids that would appease me without getting to the very issue you had with LFG there.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Samnang.1879" said:

> just make it so we only fight 1 group of mobs then straight to boss. at the moment, i don't pug t4 twilight cuz you spend like 20mins clearing mobs only to find out ur team can't kill the end boss cuz they keep downing. I only do t3 Twilight cuz i know i can carry 4 others. while in t4 i can hardly carry myself much less another person.

>

> i like the current difficulty of Twilight Oasis. and i love that the boss has a diverse attack options, and not just 1,2,3. i wish more bosses were like that. it's so much fun to fight different classes of boss, i was hoping she would turn to guardian or engineer.

 

Lore-wise: she's not different classes, she's channeling the powers of different gods. The mesmery-looking stuff? Lyssa. The earth-based attacks that follow are Melandru, the lightning storms are Dwayna, the necromantic abilities are Grenth and the fiery stuff is Balthazar. The class is still the same - Dervish.

 

Mechanic-wise: you can carry on T4 with a solid support (I've done it on a minstrel tempest). The sheer amount of attacks is somewhat overwhelming at first. But they are really quite slow and well telegraphed so when you get to know them you shouldn't down at all. Well, at least as long as someone doesn't do something dumb as have that elemental throw its boulder at the party.

[Vulf.3098]

> @"maxwelgm.4315" said:

> Well isn't it ironic, that the poll on why people don't raid in the general discussion has the highest % option on what is basically "I don't like the group aspect of raids". I'm not going to dwell into this discussion on a video game forum, but this is probably a symptom of how we treat communication in real life as well. Sitting idly waiting for a meeting without looking at a cell phone is unforgivable today, so why would people wait together to play a game while having chat?

>

> It's also the same reason I don't try to raid very often, I don't want to have to wait to play. And even though I am giving this reason to not play said content, I also think it would be kinda sad to get LFR as well. Kitten, it is how I do fractals nowadays: log on, get dailies, sometimes people won't even thank each other for the run, then sell junk and leave. I guess I have already taken away the group aspect from my gaming, and I don't know any solution to raids that would appease me without getting to the very issue you had with LFG there.

 

I wouldn't consider it ironic because the said poll you are speaking of I have never seen or heard of. This is exactly why polls on these forums are 100% irrelevant because it does not include the entirety of the player base. These forums make up a tiny fraction of the actual games players thus polls should never be taken seriously. People communicate with each other in real life either when they have or want to. It is not like you go into a meeting and basically pull out your phone put in earphones and start listening to music because that would be more equivalent to LFR in a video game because at that point you just showed up and nothing else.

 

There is plenty of content in this game that you can play without saying a word to anybody. Even most of the raid bosses can be done without being in voice. Most groups that I pug into unless it was a fresh group do not take long to get going unless you are trying to raid at like 5am or something. Raiding isn't for everybody and Anet has said this multiple times.

 

My big issue with wow's dungeon finder was that it just grabbed 5 people and threw them into an instance. The LFG they have for Normal-Heroic Raids is actually pretty decent because people queue up for your group as what they want to play and the group leader can PM, accept and decline them easily. I would not mind seeing an iteration of that for raids in this game.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

>

> This is good news. One thing that I like about fractals is that they are usually a fairly low investment in time. They are fun content that you can get into quickly when you only have gaming time in small chunks. When I see fractals that take an hour or more, to me that's not a fractal, or at least not what a fractal should be.

 

No fractal takes an hour or more.

[GhostApi.8902]

I found this fractals difficulty perfect, I did it with friends of low and high skill level and had a ball with both groups at launch. Since then I havent had problems in the slightest with pugs.

 

I found the flavour amazing, that feeling you get when you realize you are traitors slaughtering innocence was awsome.

 

Stop being negative nancies. Thank you annet I personally loved this fractal.

[rwolf.9571]

> @"GhostApi.8902" said:

> I found this fractals difficulty perfect, I did it with friends of low and high skill level and had a ball with both groups at launch. Since then I havent had problems in the slightest with pugs.

 

Must of been lucky with your pugs. I enjoy this fract as well. But only when ppl know the mechanics. I've probably only completed this fract 3 times out of 10 pugs...

 

I just skip the T4 Daily because it's too long. I don't even bother if I see a LFG for "Twightlight Oasis, at last boss". Because I know they've already been stuck there for over an hour at the boss. (Every time I've tried to help out a pug with this lfg ends in failure, and a hour wasted). Can't really carry a pug when 2 ppl die within the first phase of the battle. (Especially with the DPS check after every phase)

 

I find you have a better chance of pugs right a reset. But anything off hours is an issue...

[GoZero.9708]

Change the 87 instabilities. Hamstrung on a mobility-based boss fight, Vindicators on a fight where ressing is already crushingly difficult, and Adrenaline Rush on a boss that becomes ungodly powerful on the last 25% ANYWAY is just pure sadism and doesn't belong.

[Talindra.4958]

I did t4 new fractal twice didn't think it was hard at all just feel that it's a bit too long.. I hvnt had a chance to try again due to family vacation.. when I return back completely later will definitely hv another go lol.. can't even remember the team struggle at all.. but I guess I was worry it will be hard hence made a good team to enter.

[Bugabuga.9721]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

> >

> > One more small thing to perhaps consider: the current implementation of hamstrung seems extremely punishing in some fractals as movement is crucial and with hamstrung being hit couple times means cascading failure -- especially in initial phase of bloomhunger where even using the gun won't help much. Can it be capped at 33% (kind of like being frozen?). That'd probably help a lot as most PUG failures I see in bloomhunger happen in initial phase. (I hate vindicators and toxic trail too, but I guess we're stuck with those)

> >

> > Also perhaps double the length of potion time for higher fractals? :smile:

>

> I think you mean the initial part of swamp, not actually bloomhunger, right? Never really had any issues there myself.

> I do have more issue with hamstrung in Nightmare. Especially on the big middle circle just before the second boss. Getting hit once by a ball, aoe or a hallucination. inevitably ends up with you dead because the damage then snowballs from you being slow, which makes it impossible to move to safety on characters without big movement abilities.

 

Yes, the initial part of carrying the whisps. This is where most pug groups fail over and over and over and over and over. Inivisble traps + knock-downs, random adds, a flux bomb, spawned mossman = insta-fail. Get hit by one of 50 spawned mini-drakes? insta-fail etc. Once you past carrying the whisps I haven't seen a single failure. It just becomes a matter of time and warning people to move to positions when approaching 25% ("Go to whisps corners now, I'll finish extra percent of life")

 

This also happens in the Oasis, where last boss has intricate patterns but... if you get hit by _anything_ the special action key becomes not enough. Also you can't really control where you land (unless I'm missing something) so you still can end up with "jumped up, landed in aoe, got hit once, now too slow to move to the side" (and aegis doesn't seem to help with most of the attacks either, I guess they hit twice to specifically remove it?).

 

I don't think I was "lucky" enough to get Nightmare with that instability yet (though there I think I've managed to mostly range it and try to time CC to when "aoe smash" attacks are coming")

 

And many of my fractal runs are late night where t4 group listings are extremely scarce . Having "proper comp" is out of question anyway (or it becomes one of those waiting for healer or chrono" 20 minutes of waiting to play funsies)

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

> > >

> > > One more small thing to perhaps consider: the current implementation of hamstrung seems extremely punishing in some fractals as movement is crucial and with hamstrung being hit couple times means cascading failure -- especially in initial phase of bloomhunger where even using the gun won't help much. Can it be capped at 33% (kind of like being frozen?). That'd probably help a lot as most PUG failures I see in bloomhunger happen in initial phase. (I hate vindicators and toxic trail too, but I guess we're stuck with those)

> > >

> > > Also perhaps double the length of potion time for higher fractals? :smile:

> >

> > I think you mean the initial part of swamp, not actually bloomhunger, right? Never really had any issues there myself.

> > I do have more issue with hamstrung in Nightmare. Especially on the big middle circle just before the second boss. Getting hit once by a ball, aoe or a hallucination. inevitably ends up with you dead because the damage then snowballs from you being slow, which makes it impossible to move to safety on characters without big movement abilities.

>

> Yes, the initial part of carrying the whisps. This is where most pug groups fail over and over and over and over and over. Inivisble traps + knock-downs, random adds, a flux bomb, spawned mossman = insta-fail. Get hit by one of 50 spawned mini-drakes? insta-fail etc. Once you past carrying the whisps I haven't seen a single failure. It just becomes a matter of time and warning people to move to positions when approaching 25% ("Go to whisps corners now, I'll finish extra percent of life")

>

> This also happens in the Oasis, where last boss has intricate patterns but... if you get hit by _anything_ the special action key becomes not enough. Also you can't really control where you land (unless I'm missing something) so you still can end up with "jumped up, landed in aoe, got hit once, now too slow to move to the side" (and aegis doesn't seem to help with most of the attacks either, I guess they hit twice to specifically remove it?).

>

> I don't think I was "lucky" enough to get Nightmare with that instability yet (though there I think I've managed to mostly range it and try to time CC to when "aoe smash" attacks are coming")

>

> And many of my fractal runs are late night where t4 group listings are extremely scarce . Having "proper comp" is out of question anyway (or it becomes one of those waiting for healer or chrono" 20 minutes of waiting to play funsies)

 

I solved that by playing chrono myself, and my brother does druid. So usually we got that pretty well covered. I rarely fail T4 fractals too, in no small measure because me and my brother can really carry the group, and usually we have some other mates with us to handle the dps. I can't begin to tell you how many times me and my brother (but mostly him because heals) end up soloing the last 2-5% of bosses in fractals that require a bit more mechanics (like Chaos, Thaumanova, Mai Trin, etc)

[Talindra.4958]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

 

> I solved that by playing chrono myself, and my brother does druid. So usually we got that pretty well

 

Yes .. I usually go druid. A friend coming as chrono.. fractal run usually is simpler that way.. can't say we carry the team bcos our dps only 2k :x

 

While repeating fractal for daily.. I'd prefer it short though.. unless the mob drop nice loot.

 

 

 

[Orion Templar.4589]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

> >

> > This is good news. One thing that I like about fractals is that they are usually a fairly low investment in time. They are fun content that you can get into quickly when you only have gaming time in small chunks. When I see fractals that take an hour or more, to me that's not a fractal, or at least not what a fractal should be.

>

> No fractal takes an hour or more.

 

Agreed, it shouldn't. I was just referring to a poster above me who mention one taking 1h30m.

[Linken.6345]

Catch 22 here people say on one thread they want dungeons back becouse fractals are to short and here in this thread that fractals shouldent be over an hour.

 

Would be nice if people could agree.

[Sublimatio.6981]

Today I skipped correctly to the first sandbinder using stealth, no mob was aggroed. I begun fighting the sandbinder but apparently the aggro range of the veteran mobs (especially since they are lvl 83) is so huge they just came and killed me at the sandbinder - which felt very unfair and unrewarding. It's like disrespecting the effort. Something should be done about the aggro ranges, leash ranges.

[GoZero.9708]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> Catch 22 here people say on one thread they want dungeons back becouse fractals are to short and here in this thread that fractals shouldent be over an hour.

>

> Would be nice if people could agree.

 

Almost like dungeons aren't Fractals. Fractals were specifically designed to be "mini-dungeons" but there's nothing mini about Twilight Oasis.

[Despond.2174]

> @"GoZero.9708" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > Catch 22 here people say on one thread they want dungeons back becouse fractals are to short and here in this thread that fractals shouldent be over an hour.

> >

> > Would be nice if people could agree.

>

> Almost like dungeons aren't Fractals. Fractals were specifically designed to be "mini-dungeons" but there's nothing mini about Twilight Oasis.

 

This. Fractal appeal is the whole mini-dungeon feel. Dungeons are their for long story paths, eg Aether which with some pugs is basically a raid.

[Bugabuga.9721]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> Catch 22 here people say on one thread they want dungeons back becouse fractals are to short and here in this thread that fractals shouldent be over an hour.

>

> Would be nice if people could agree.

 

I wouldn't mind "more dungeons" but basically fractals _were_ individual dungeon paths. Then they were split out from unified block into short and sweet independent ones (some were notably shorter). And before "reworked/new" fractals whole T4 run with pugs would be around 40 minutes. Seemed quite reasonable and I enjoyed it. Dungeons have more "lore" component, I guess -- and they have armor/weapon/sigil/crafting components.

 

But then came "refreshments" and mechanic overloads and updated instabilities. The new vindicators/hamstrung instabilities reduce allowed margin of error further (if two people get downed even for a split second and then rally it doesn't matter -- you've just got 2 extra enemies that hit like a truck and you can't rally off of those ones -- go sit in the corner until you find a druid for your group or get good). Shortest fractal got turned into tons and tons and tons of adds (remember, it shouldn't be tedious! But we're back to a full complement of dredge clown car. Except it's now split into multiple rooms! Yay, right?)

 

People do love new content. They may not love it so much when it turns into "spend an hour trying to complete it, get no rewards anyway, group disbands, ha-ha git gud". And especially when it takes away old and "boring" content that was easier on random groups. Great players and pre-set comps will fly through CM modes and be done in 30 minutes anyway, and then probably complain that new things are too easy and everything should be even harder. So there's that :smile:

 

I just hope there won't be any "improvements" to "old" old fractals, given where the latest batch is heading. And I guess I'll just seat the new ones out when not playing with guildies or right around the reset.

[Bugabuga.9721]

> @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

> Today I skipped correctly to the first sandbinder using stealth, no mob was aggroed. I begun fighting the sandbinder but apparently the aggro range of the veteran mobs (especially since they are lvl 83) is so huge they just came and killed me at the sandbinder - which felt very unfair and unrewarding. It's like disrespecting the effort. Something should be done about the aggro ranges, leash ranges.

 

I presume you're expected to actually be "in the very back" of the area where first sandbinder is. And also hope there won't be a tentacle or rabbit spawned from convergence, or you're out of luck and have to move back where rest of mobs re-aggroes (or have whole party with you to be able to kill it relatively fast).

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

>

> > I solved that by playing chrono myself, and my brother does druid. So usually we got that pretty well

>

> Yes .. I usually go druid. A friend coming as chrono.. fractal run usually is simpler that way.. can't say we carry the team bcos our dps only 2k :x

>

> While repeating fractal for daily.. I'd prefer it short though.. unless the mob drop nice loot.

>

>

>

 

Your dps will be 2k, but if you and your friend are playing well, the rest of the team can be semi-competent only, and you'll still finish.

Hence what i said about sometimes in the more mechanic intensive fractals, we end up having to finish bosses alone.

About the length of fractals, the only one that usually does take a long time for me is Shattered Observatory. And it's probably a lot more because of dialogue and cut-scenes than anything else.

But yeah, usually i take around 10m per fractal for the most part, and SO usually takes 15-20+.

In average i'll do all daily plus recommended fractals before potions run out (before omnipotion, now they simply never do run out ^_^)

[zealex.9410]

> @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Orion Templar.4589" said:

> > > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > > We have some changes planned for the new year to help bring down the average time while retaining (or even improving) the overall experience. We will continue to monitor our analytics and feedback for this fractal for any future improvements.

> > >

> > > This is good news. One thing that I like about fractals is that they are usually a fairly low investment in time. They are fun content that you can get into quickly when you only have gaming time in small chunks. When I see fractals that take an hour or more, to me that's not a fractal, or at least not what a fractal should be.

> >

> > No fractal takes an hour or more.

>

> Agreed, it shouldn't. I was just referring to a poster above me who mention one taking 1h30m.

 

Also i remember when i was doing thepush into t4 my cliffside clear would take 40 min so its like. This is purely based on ppl's experience as the new cms can be cleared in around 10-15 min.

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Bugabuga.9721" said:

> > @"Sublimatio.6981" said:

> > Today I skipped correctly to the first sandbinder using stealth, no mob was aggroed. I begun fighting the sandbinder but apparently the aggro range of the veteran mobs (especially since they are lvl 83) is so huge they just came and killed me at the sandbinder - which felt very unfair and unrewarding. It's like disrespecting the effort. Something should be done about the aggro ranges, leash ranges.

>

> I presume you're expected to actually be "in the very back" of the area where first sandbinder is. And also hope there won't be a tentacle or rabbit spawned from convergence, or you're out of luck and have to move back where rest of mobs re-aggroes (or have whole party with you to be able to kill it relatively fast).

 

Mist convergence doesn't work out-of combat.

If you skipped everything on stealth and begin fighting sandbinder in melee range, the mobs outside the arena catch aggro despite being far away - that's what I'm talking about.

[WeedyZeGreedy.8635]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > @Turin.6921 said:

> > What are you expecting? To finish a new T4 fractal, in one go, the first time without a single wipe and still get hard content rewards. Give it a least a few tries and a bit of time for the pugs to get the mechanics and trust me it will become a breeze. Its just about knowing the boss.

>

> For a fractal in the 80s range? Absolutely. It's in the solid ocean range lol. I don't expect all fractals to be identical, however I do expect consistency in the pacing of non raid-like fractals bosses, if that's what it's supposed to be. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it just doesn't belong to the regular pool as the pacing does make it yet another raid fractal. It shouldn't be 87. It should be 101. I do not care if it's difficult or not, it just needs to be rewarded appropriately or nerfed to match other 80s fractals.

>

> At this point i'm 100% convinced that nobody understands that this is a rewards/ranking issue because it's the internet and nobody reads anything beyond the first sentence. Anyone parroting "but just play lower tiers" has serious reading comprehension issues. If it stays at that difficulty/pacing level it needs to be ranked higher with other fractals with chaotic boss fights. Or nerfed to be slower. Either way, I don't mind.

>

 

Or maybe people disagree with you because the number slapped on it doesn't matter. There should be no 100+ before the 26th fractal