Problems with 1 up 1 down match manipulation

[Swamurabi.7890]

So now two servers in T1 are tanking and three servers in T2 are also tanking?

 

And you really want to blame the five servers instead of the one?

[X T D.6458]

> @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> So now two servers in T1 are tanking and three servers in T2 are also tanking?

>

> And you really want to blame the five servers instead of the one?

 

Intentional tanking will only hurt a server in the long run. It is basically a self inflicted wound.

[Swamurabi.7890]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > So now two servers in T1 are tanking and three servers in T2 are also tanking?

> >

> > And you really want to blame the five servers instead of the one?

>

> Intentional tanking will only hurt a server in the long run. It is basically a self inflicted wound.

 

How do you expect YB, JQ and Mag to get healthier when they're locked? Recruit from PvE? Right. It's not like they can buy experienced players like the good old days.

Or maybe they should be paying for players to join their linked server, if they have one that is and repeat that every re-link.

Maybe you should instead be blaming DB and SoS for not orchestrating a massive transfer of players?

[X T D.6458]

> @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > > So now two servers in T1 are tanking and three servers in T2 are also tanking?

> > >

> > > And you really want to blame the five servers instead of the one?

> >

> > Intentional tanking will only hurt a server in the long run. It is basically a self inflicted wound.

>

> How do you expect YB, JQ and Mag to get healthier when they're locked? Recruit from PvE? Right. It's not like they can buy experienced players like the good old days.

> Or maybe they should be paying for players to join their linked server, if they have one that is and repeat that every re-link.

> Maybe you should instead be blaming DB and SoS for not orchestrating a massive transfer of players?

 

BG is locked, and has not had a link except for the first time it was implemented. Yet you guys can't stop complaining about us.

[Chaba.5410]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> BG is locked, and has not had a link since it was implemented. Yet you guys can't stop complaining about us.

 

Anvil Rock was the first link to BG when linking started.

[X T D.6458]

> @Chaba.5410 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > BG is locked, and has not had a link since it was implemented. Yet you guys can't stop complaining about us.

>

> Anvil Rock was the first link to BG when linking started.

 

Eredon Terrace, I worded it wrong. Meant to say we did not get a link after the first time.

[Vermillion.4061]

Because nobody wants to fight BG, don't blame the 5 servers tanking to get away from the 1.

[X T D.6458]

> @Vermillion.4061 said:

> Because nobody wants to fight BG, don't blame the 5 servers tanking to get away from the 1.

 

Ok so if BG used this excuse, and started tanking matchups... you would all give us your support right RIGHT? I mean to not do so would be...GASP...hypocrisy!

[Vermillion.4061]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @Vermillion.4061 said:

> > Because nobody wants to fight BG, don't blame the 5 servers tanking to get away from the 1.

>

> Ok so if BG used this excuse, and started tanking matchups... you would all give us your support right RIGHT? I mean to not do so would be...GASP...hypocrisy!

 

Would be amusing to see 6 servers trying to out tank each other let's be honest here.

[MaLeVoLenT.8129]

I warned this would happen when Arena Net Introduced this system after the community voted against it for obvious reasons. 1 up 1 down with the crazy population hard caps will make everyone fight for second place thus breaking the game. It didnt even start with 1 up 1 down. It started when MAG out tanked TC to be the first to avoid BG over TC, thus causing TC to implode. ! up 1 down reenforces how broken world population is.

 

Glicko is better and doesnt give way to this type of manipulation. 1up 1down makes it easier to do.

[MaLeVoLenT.8129]

The worlds need to be redone, I'm sorry. There isn't a single server willing to deal with BG and even if there was, no server is allowed to stack to that level beyond that of a server-link, thus in reality no one will stand up to BG and BG isn't going to diminish in population because overall population diminishes from fighting Blackgate.

[Jerry CCH.9816]

Most people dont know Cancer all from Siege. and Auto upgrad keep/tower to T3

90% ppl just bm coverage. stack. population. :'(

 

You guys need think how to make fight easy and not just bm everything"

This game gonna be dead" when lots ppl still blind

 

[dagneyandleo.6378]

> @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:

> The worlds need to be redone, I'm sorry. There isn't a single server willing to deal with BG and even if there was, no server is allowed to stack to that level beyond that of a server-link, thus in reality no one will stand up to BG and BG isn't going to diminish in population because overall population diminishes from fighting Blackgate.

 

I'd add that server links don't help with it either. Despite rumors to the contrary, it's been a long time since BG actually pushed to win - We don't **have** to put in overtime. We haven't in a good long time and we've lost a good amount of guilds due to disinterest in the game as a whole, but the population we still have has been playing for ages. And because of that long-standing community, we lose people at a slower rate than everyone else. We all have known each other for ages. I can talk about things that happened when Mal was NA rep and over half of the channel will remember what I'm talking about. Some may not be the most top-tier players in terms of individual skill, but they know how to work with each other and the basics of communication in terms of call outs and voice comms. The servers that end up coming against us via links/1u1d don't have that background for the most part - It's hard to build up a community when the new blood you spend time training is going to be forced to move in a few weeks. It's hard to build up knowledge against certain groups when you're on a merry-go-round of match-ups every week. It's hard to learn from veteran commanders when they're just going to transfer (or be forced to transfer), the next week.

 

So you think to yourself, "Why even bother? We can just not play this week and go back to playing other servers of similar experience." And I don't blame them. It would be a really tempting solution if I were in the same situation.

 

When Anet came out with links and then 1u1d afterwards, the acknowledgement was that they were Bandaid solutions. The Bandaids are falling off and the wound they're covering is infected. Mal and I don't agree on alot, but we agree on this: **The system itself needs to be reworked.** I know that Arenanet is worried that reworking the system will lead to the whole game mode falling apart entirely. That may happen. But if nothing is done, and the failing Bandaids remain in place, the game mode *will* die. It's already dying. The ones of us who are left are the diehards who know each other too well like the remaining six 90-year-olds at a high school reunion who hold grudges from 60 years ago. The server system needs to be remade.

 

Disclaimer: I am an NA rep on BG, but none of the above is speaking for all of BG. Plenty of people on the server would disagree with me. Heck, plenty of people in my guild would. But Mal is absolutely right when he says he predicted this happening, and I thought I'd throw in my thoughts into how time and temporary solutions have played into the imbalance of the game mode.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:

> I warned this would happen when Arena Net Introduced this system after the community voted against it for obvious reasons. 1 up 1 down with the crazy population hard caps will make everyone fight for second place thus breaking the game. It didnt even start with 1 up 1 down. It started when MAG out tanked TC to be the first to avoid BG over TC, thus causing TC to implode. ! up 1 down reenforces how broken world population is.

>

> Glicko is better and doesnt give way to this type of manipulation. 1up 1down makes it easier to do.

 

So.. Tanking caused TC to implode?

[DeWolfe.2174]

 

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:

> > I warned this would happen when Arena Net Introduced this system after the community voted against it for obvious reasons. 1 up 1 down with the crazy population hard caps will make everyone fight for second place thus breaking the game. It didnt even start with 1 up 1 down. It started when MAG out tanked TC to be the first to avoid BG over TC, thus causing TC to implode. ! up 1 down reenforces how broken world population is.

> >

> > Glicko is better and doesnt give way to this type of manipulation. 1up 1down makes it easier to do.

>

> So.. Tanking caused TC to implode?

 

In a 3 way match, when the 3rd place worlds weakens, it puts more pressure on the 2nd place world to keep up with the 1st place.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @DeWolfe.2174 said:

>

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:

> > > I warned this would happen when Arena Net Introduced this system after the community voted against it for obvious reasons. 1 up 1 down with the crazy population hard caps will make everyone fight for second place thus breaking the game. It didnt even start with 1 up 1 down. It started when MAG out tanked TC to be the first to avoid BG over TC, thus causing TC to implode. ! up 1 down reenforces how broken world population is.

> > >

> > > Glicko is better and doesnt give way to this type of manipulation. 1up 1down makes it easier to do.

> >

> > So.. Tanking caused TC to implode?

>

> In a 3 way match, when the 3rd place worlds weakens, it puts more pressure on the 2nd place world to keep up with the 1st place.

 

If you feel that TC imploded because of another server tanking, then so be it.

 

I understand what tanking does.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> > @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

> > Excuse me sirs. Only ANET is allowed to match manipulate via links. Good day to you.

> >

> > Lastly.

> >

> > > @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> > > The tanking switches people off wvw and makes them quit playing so doesn't help population.

> > > Match making needs a rework imo.

> >

> > People leave due to bad game play (balance) first, then followed by lag and finally queues (bigger issue at launch). Tanking is questionable for motivations that a massive amount of players would "quit." You could transfer to a server not tanking to remedy this...oh wait they're full (but not really full).

>

> If you are on a server that is in a tanking match every week, people do quit and go play other games rather than paying for a transfer to another server that will likely end up the same way at the next relink. Moving servers gives a very short honeymoon but ultimately ends up with having to move again. I know I have moved abit....now stopped it's a waste of gold/$$.

 

The only notable server that successfully pulls off tanking is Maguuma. I can't speak for others, since I was last on Maguuma within recent memory. It all ties back to the three reasons I just sayed. Had people not left due to those three-ish reasons, then you wouldn't be tanking since there would be more _variety of people_ to fight against across all tiers. Tanking as a motivation is (at best) a symptom due in large part to the exodus that already happened. It still pales in quantity for the reasons people have quit. It is a chain reaction of sorts. Attempting to fix it won't solve the actual illness. I suppose you can also think of it as a server's way of _choosing their opponents_ (that's all it really comes down to), but because those that want one particular match up they must drag others down (or up) with them. **Oh golly gee, a typical WvW story really: a fractured community wants multiple different ambiguous things.** That's never happened before.

 

Even still, I only mildly suggested transferring in spite of so many potentially competent servers are marked as "full" so now it is all up to ANET to balance the match ups. I just hope they match by bell curves across 24 hours instead of by a single average of activity...just so they can more accurately map out coverage issues. Although...I doubt SEA and OCX are on the linked servers in any meaningful capacity. RIP. If anything I saw a few KEK peeps move their accounts/alts to Vabbi or its link (an EU server) to derp around. You could try that? No? Well I'm out of easy options. Free transfers for everybody!

 

P.S. My NA account is on BG still.

[MaLeVoLenT.8129]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:

> > I warned this would happen when Arena Net Introduced this system after the community voted against it for obvious reasons. 1 up 1 down with the crazy population hard caps will make everyone fight for second place thus breaking the game. It didnt even start with 1 up 1 down. It started when MAG out tanked TC to be the first to avoid BG over TC, thus causing TC to implode. ! up 1 down reenforces how broken world population is.

> >

> > Glicko is better and doesnt give way to this type of manipulation. 1up 1down makes it easier to do.

>

> So.. Tanking caused TC to implode?

 

Not really. You see unlike, MAG, YB, FA, DB, and JQ TC didn't have the organization nor the will power to tank out. When a servers members feel stuck in any given tier they leave the server even if they didn't want to leave. Causing a mass exodus. It started slow and by the point of mass realization, it spiked causing waves to leave just like that. Picture being on an underpopulated and disorganized server versus Blackgate for months at a time with no escape. The final nail in the coffin for TC was when MAG got the organization to tank out before TC. Then Boom. The sad thing is GW2 WvW community has a bad habit of blaming each other for this broke game mode. TC during this time blame each other for its issues and the servers around them like BG. But its not even Blackgates fault nor is it MAGs.

[keelhaul.8039]

If Anet sits on their hands the only solution for the player community is to pound the life out of BG in constant 2v1's, but few will be keen to do that in current year with circle jerking and tanking for easy fights being the preferred game experience.

 

Make WvW great again Anet pls, the 1 up 1 down system is too easy for servers to abuse. No one wants to see weeks / months of glicko stagnation again either but something needs to be done and soon.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @keelhaul.8039 said:

> If Anet sits on their hands the only solution for the player community is to pound the life out of BG in constant 2v1's, but few will be keen to do that in current year with circle jerking and tanking for easy fights being the preferred game experience.

>

> Make WvW great again.

... you are saying the solution to this whole mess is to play WvW like its supposed to be played?

 

Who knew!?

 

[Aeolus.3615]

> @Dawdler.8521 said:

> > @keelhaul.8039 said:

> > If Anet sits on their hands the only solution for the player community is to pound the life out of BG in constant 2v1's, but few will be keen to do that in current year with circle jerking and tanking for easy fights being the preferred game experience.

> >

> > Make WvW great again.

> ... you are saying the solution to this whole mess is to play WvW like its supposed to be played?

>

> Who knew!?

>

 

BloB Ktrains vs PvD or where theres no defenders while loosing strucutres to small teams and recap them later? o_O?

 

[atheria.2837]

> @DemonSeed.3528 said:

> Hm, haven't experienced people on alts helping to ppt but it's a nicer change from having them to pull tactics at every tower/keep for a change lol. It could be happening and I just don't realise though, but there is always a tactics tugger every week, more so on weekends. I wouldn't be surprised though the lengths some people go to, nothing is sacred.

 

***SpiesAreReal

 

*AltsDoDamageToTheIntegrityOfWvW

**

Tanking and manipulation are happening on many levels including on alts who pull tactics, tell enemy commanders where your troops are and point out the commander to be sniped constantly, oh and hackers who are not being stopped even with videos and other proof.

 

The abuses in WvW are losing us players by the score - and Anet stands silent, still.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @atheria.2837 said:

> > @DemonSeed.3528 said:

> > Hm, haven't experienced people on alts helping to ppt but it's a nicer change from having them to pull tactics at every tower/keep for a change lol. It could be happening and I just don't realise though, but there is always a tactics tugger every week, more so on weekends. I wouldn't be surprised though the lengths some people go to, nothing is sacred.

>

> ***SpiesAreReal

>

> *AltsDoDamageToTheIntegrityOfWvW

> **

> Tanking and manipulation are happening on many levels including on alts who pull tactics, tell enemy commanders where your troops are and point out the commander to be sniped constantly, oh and hackers who are not being stopped even with videos and other proof.

>

> The abuses in WvW are losing us players by the score - and Anet stands silent, still.

 

Welcome to the cons of a F2P soon to be completely P2W type MMO. This is a issue in all of them.