More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Tyson.5160]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> > > Just remember folks... “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

 

>

> Raids is the future fun reward for PvE. This dude didn't understand Mike's statement at all. Also this statement was made years ago.

>

> Only a person that clearly is out of touch with the game would think their philosophy on everything is EXACTLY the same as when Mike was game director. This statement is almost in applicable now.

 

Didn’t Mike just step down as game director, also by this statement does it mean that you want to wait to have fun and love mindless grind fest?

 

[Edelweiss.4261]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> No. Stop being lazy and go work for things.

 

Most people do enough work at work. Games are a chance to get away from work. This has nothing to do with laziness. If you want to continue working inside the game, that's fine, but don't force your mindset on others.

[Rhatha.2376]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> As for raids, there are a slew of bosses in each wing that take very little investment to get kills for. Very little time to learn, and very little time to find a group for. If you can't find a group for bosses like VG, Gorseval, Sab, KC, Escort, w5 escort, w5 towers, and the first 3 bosses of w4, it is pure laziness. Thats 10-11 LI a week on the easiest bosses in the game. Some of them are even easier than the average t4 fractal.

>

> MO, Cairn, and Gorseval, are basically giant dps golems. There is no challenge in killing them, and I'm tired of people making these things seem hard, when they aren't.

 

That depends entirely on the level of practice and skill a given person has, as well as the group they're with. They may not be as hard as some people make them out to be, but clearly there are a lot of people that find them challenging, either in the mechanics, in the requirements for performing your role, or logistically, or we wouldn't have thread like this to begin with. I've seen brand new players (to GW2) jump in and breeze through. I've also seen players who have played since launch struggle with even the easier fights. MO is a punching bag, sure, but Gorse is usually done no updraft, which does require solid play by an average group, and Cairn downs plenty of people if the whole group isn't either very experienced or stacking healers beyond the norm. And then you consider fights like Sloth or Xera..

 

I'm also really curious as to what parts of Aurora you think are more challenging than raids, because I can't think of any. There are certainly parts that take a long time, and things like the jumping puzzle may be tricky, but most people talking about challenge are referring tohow often and how difficult to deal with mechanics are, how fault-tolerant they are (if you get smacked by a champion out in the world, you might lose half your health, but if you miss a green circle on VG, the entire group takes a much larger hit), and how well you need to perform your role to finish the encounter, particularly if there's a bar you have to reach (this is most similar to open world, enraging some bosses is like letting a timer run out on a bounty or other world event).

 

 

> @"Sombra.3246" said:

> This logic behind it is that GW2 was made for people to have fun in all aspects of the game. I like to do a little of everything a bit of pve mostly fractals, ranked pvp and wvw.

>

> I am a very experienced player, but I have yet to complete any raids. This is not because of my skills or lack of skills.

> This is because I am not part of any raiding guild and do not want to have to be in a raiding guild and be on discord to be able to finish it.

> Raiding is a great addition to the game don't get me wrong. But the way it is set up now only a select few are doing raids constantly and of those players most are part of dedicated raiding guild.

>

> All other players who do not take part in raids have no chance of ever getting the legendary armor for example. If I really wanted it I would have to be forced to join a raiding guild play meta and have meta gear and do raid training just to be able to complete 1 wing to start work on getting a legendary.

>

> I think there should be more options instead of being forced to raid to get the legendary armor with unique skin that most players want.

> PvP and WvW already give you a possibility to get legendary armor, but not with a unique legendary skin. Maybe if they give them a unique legendary skin more people will try to get legendary armor in other game modes. Maybe they can also add a unique legendary armor for dungeons to make them relevant again.

 

I see this kind of comment a lot. It's not necessarily true, though. I did essentially the entire collection through a training discord, joining runs whenever they were available when I had free time, with different people on almost every run. You may be encouraged to use meta builds while learning, because they're proven to be effective at what they do, but as long as you can perform adequately at whatever role you're playing, most people don't care. The longest part isn't the collection, really, it's killing 150 bosses, so it's fine to start off with the simpler fights and work up as you become more comfortable. Also, those communities are a great place to find both people in the sme boat, and other who play the same profession as you to ask for advice. If you're on NA feel free to message me and I can pass on the info.

 

I mean, I agree, in a perfect world, there would be another alternative, and the PvP/WvW sets would get their own amazing appearances. Every indication we have is that new appearances aren't happening, though, at least not any time in the near future.

 

 

Also, guys, please remember that people who don't agree with you just have a different opinion.. that doesn't make any of these points "wrong." The vast majority of people who want another option to progress in game aren't being lazy and are fine at working at legendary armor through an equivalent route. Raiding isn't for everyone, any more than PvP, WvW, etc. are (and I personally am of the opinion that adding raids wasn't a good fit for this game, despite enjoying them). Little dips into other game modes are fine - gift of battle and the like have existed since forever. On the other hand, the vast majority of people who think the current method is fine are more than willing to put forth effort to help people along who are willing to work on things as they are, whether you're going for the appearance or doing PvP/WvW for the ability to stat swap. We all love the game for different reasons. Being passionate about it is not an excuse to be hostile to your fellow players, though, and it's sadly all too common, or at leawst, it appears that way in text.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Zappix.7928" said:

> > I also understand the people that have obtained legendary gear with LI's don't want to feel like what they've earned is diminished by expanding the ways to obtain this armor.

>

> You mean the same people who sell titles and Legendary Insights and loot chests for legendary armor collections to other players?

>

> Having several ways to the same goal fits perfectly into Anet's philosophy. You don't want to do Dungeons but need tokens? You can play the reward track for them. You can get legendary stuff from PvP, WvW and raids, a backpack from WvW and Fractals. With the new legendary Focus, you can even choose to do it in HoT or PoF. It would be obvious to add more ways of obtaining legendary armor, especially for playing fractals.

>

> It doesn't even have to be the same skins, they are ugly anyway. I'm sure players would still try to get the armor in fractals if the skins were like the basic clothing you get when starting a character.

 

Right, because every raider is raid seller? Come on, you can do better....

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > No. Stop being lazy and go work for things.

>

> Most people do enough work at work. Games are a chance to get away from work. This has nothing to do with laziness. If you want to continue working inside the game, that's fine, but don't force your mindset on others.

 

It's not about working. It's about putting effort. And that isn't really a bad thing when it comes to games, because it makes the success after it feel that much more rewarding. Not in the monetary/in-game/whatever literal sense, just the pure feeling of it. Part of this is tied to the feeling of earning a **fair** reward. Probably the best way of doing that is making said reward exclusive. It makes it feel special, which enforces the satisfaction of obtaining it and the feeling of your effort being fairly rewarded. You can see it literally everywhere in the game, and especially in legendaries. That's their whole point. The animations and effects are just pixels. The process of creating one is what makes you appreciate it.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Alehin.3746" said:

> No. Stop being lazy and go work for things.

Sure, legendary gear shouldn't just magically appear in your inventory just for creating an account but that's not a valid point against the actual topic of the thread.

 

> @"Rhatha.2376" said:

> most people talking about challenge are referring tohow often and how difficult to deal with mechanics are

If thats their only criteria for something being "challenging" then they don't seem (or want) to understand the difference between something being challenging and something being difficult.

[Voltekka.2375]

Lets compare stuff of PvE raiding and WvW leggy armors for a bit. A platinum rank player in WvW (higher than 98% of the database), meaning 8-10 pips on average, needs (lets say 9 pips/tick) 13.42 hours of weekly WvW to get the weekly cap of 1450 pips. Multiply that with 22 (the necessary ticket number to obtain the T2 legendary, or 29 to get the T3 legendary) , you get the numbers 295 (hours) and 389 hours, respectively. Those numbers are higher the lower your rank is (less for gold, silver etc). Now, to actually GET to platinum rank (above 2545), you need a substantial, a HUGE amount of time and WvW dedication. Waaaaay more than a PvE raider's time and dedication to get his/her first PvE raid leggy set, cause after you get to know boss mechanics (again, that does take way less time than what is required to get to plat rank), you can do all wings in 3hrs maximum/week.

But let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that this is fine. The difference in hours and playtime, i mean. It is not, but still.

What irks me the most is that PvE raiders get a bazillion, yes, I mean it, a crapload of amount on ascended weapon/armor/trinket drops with each boss, and with SELECTABLE stats. Unlike WvW where you MAY get a weaponchest/armorchest every 2 weeks to a month, or a core stat ring. NO selectable stat trinkets Ascended weapons/armor/trinkets are crucial to various WvW builds. You need to have 2-3 (if youre a dedicated player, mind) for each WvW toon, cause of build diversity.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> Lets compare stuff of PvE raiding and WvW leggy armors for a bit. A platinum rank player in WvW (higher than 98% of the database), meaning 8-10 pips on average, needs (lets say 9 pips/tick) 13.42 hours of weekly WvW to get the weekly cap of 1450 pips. Multiply that with 22 (the necessary ticket number to obtain the T2 legendary, or 29 to get the T3 legendary) , you get the numbers 295 (hours) and 389 hours, respectively. Those numbers are higher the lower your rank is (less for gold, silver etc). Now, to actually GET to platinum rank (above 2545), you need a substantial, a HUGE amount of time and WvW dedication. Waaaaay more than a PvE raider's time and dedication to get his/her first PvE raid leggy set, cause after you get to know boss mechanics (again, that does take way less time than what is required to get to plat rank), you can do all wings in 3hrs maximum/week.

> But let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that this is fine. The difference in hours and playtime, i mean. It is not, but still.

> What irks me the most is that PvE raiders get a bazillion, yes, I mean it, a crapload of amount on ascended weapon/armor/trinket drops with each boss, and with SELECTABLE stats. Unlike WvW where you MAY get a weaponchest/armorchest every 2 weeks to a month, or a core stat ring. NO selectable stat trinkets Ascended weapons/armor/trinkets are crucial to various WvW builds. You need to have 2-3 (if youre a dedicated player, mind) for each WvW toon, cause of build diversity.

>

> Thank you for your time.

 

The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > Lets compare stuff of PvE raiding and WvW leggy armors for a bit. A platinum rank player in WvW (higher than 98% of the database), meaning 8-10 pips on average, needs (lets say 9 pips/tick) 13.42 hours of weekly WvW to get the weekly cap of 1450 pips. Multiply that with 22 (the necessary ticket number to obtain the T2 legendary, or 29 to get the T3 legendary) , you get the numbers 295 (hours) and 389 hours, respectively. Those numbers are higher the lower your rank is (less for gold, silver etc). Now, to actually GET to platinum rank (above 2545), you need a substantial, a HUGE amount of time and WvW dedication. Waaaaay more than a PvE raider's time and dedication to get his/her first PvE raid leggy set, cause after you get to know boss mechanics (again, that does take way less time than what is required to get to plat rank), you can do all wings in 3hrs maximum/week.

> > But let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that this is fine. The difference in hours and playtime, i mean. It is not, but still.

> > What irks me the most is that PvE raiders get a bazillion, yes, I mean it, a crapload of amount on ascended weapon/armor/trinket drops with each boss, and with SELECTABLE stats. Unlike WvW where you MAY get a weaponchest/armorchest every 2 weeks to a month, or a core stat ring. NO selectable stat trinkets Ascended weapons/armor/trinkets are crucial to various WvW builds. You need to have 2-3 (if youre a dedicated player, mind) for each WvW toon, cause of build diversity.

> >

> > Thank you for your time.

>

> The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

 

I only state that WvW should get some semblance of comparable rewards, pvp as well, for the time people put into it. Thats all.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > Lets compare stuff of PvE raiding and WvW leggy armors for a bit. A platinum rank player in WvW (higher than 98% of the database), meaning 8-10 pips on average, needs (lets say 9 pips/tick) 13.42 hours of weekly WvW to get the weekly cap of 1450 pips. Multiply that with 22 (the necessary ticket number to obtain the T2 legendary, or 29 to get the T3 legendary) , you get the numbers 295 (hours) and 389 hours, respectively. Those numbers are higher the lower your rank is (less for gold, silver etc). Now, to actually GET to platinum rank (above 2545), you need a substantial, a HUGE amount of time and WvW dedication. Waaaaay more than a PvE raider's time and dedication to get his/her first PvE raid leggy set, cause after you get to know boss mechanics (again, that does take way less time than what is required to get to plat rank), you can do all wings in 3hrs maximum/week.

> > > But let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that this is fine. The difference in hours and playtime, i mean. It is not, but still.

> > > What irks me the most is that PvE raiders get a bazillion, yes, I mean it, a crapload of amount on ascended weapon/armor/trinket drops with each boss, and with SELECTABLE stats. Unlike WvW where you MAY get a weaponchest/armorchest every 2 weeks to a month, or a core stat ring. NO selectable stat trinkets Ascended weapons/armor/trinkets are crucial to various WvW builds. You need to have 2-3 (if youre a dedicated player, mind) for each WvW toon, cause of build diversity.

> > >

> > > Thank you for your time.

> >

> > The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

>

> I only state that WvW should get some semblance of comparable rewards, pvp as well, for the time people put into it. Thats all.

 

Well, it really depends on what your goals are, as a game designer. For instance, you can keep rewards in a certain part of the game intentionally higher in order to draw more people there. I fully agree that WvW rewards are generally lacking, but I kind of think that's OK. It's a primarily PvE game and the idea of playing just WvW to be "sufficient" feels wrong. I think it's healthy for the game that it gives incentive to the hardcore WvWers (or PvPers for that matter) to play PvE as well. Just as it is healthy for the game that it requires PvErs to play WvW for GoB.

[Rysdude.3824]

I think its healthy for the rewards to be equivalent to each mode. That way, everyone’s happy.

[Stormscar.5489]

It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

 

So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

 

And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

 

In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

 

I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

[Faaris.8013]

@"Stormscar.5489" At least you cannot simply buy the stuff you need to do for the PvP and WvW legendary armor, while you can simply use your credit card to buy the kills to get raid armor. Or even better, afk farm enough gold to pay the raid sellers. The other parts of the collections are similar to those of some legendary weapons. I think for Nevermore you have to do more open world things than for legendary armor.

 

There is already a simple way for the unskilled players to get legendary armor through raids. The whole thing might cost you 5k gold in addition to the materials, but you don't need any skill to get the armor. Raid sellers, as far as I know, will ask you to /gg when they start, so you cannot mess anything up.

 

People who ask for more paths don't want to do that, they are not the lazy unskilled players who want everything for free, as you call them. They are willing to spend time and effort, they simply don't like raiding and the pug community it created. There are lots of static groups for raids and fractals with friendly and awesome people, we just don't see them because they don't need the LFG tool, and the raids happen in instances. That's why I say "pug raid community", it certainly doesn't include all players that raid. The raid experience outside a static group is horrible, that's what makes people ask for more paths. I know some really good players who are capable of doing the content, but they refuse to pug raids. And usually their schedule doesn't allow them to join a raid guild and find a static group.

[Alehin.3746]

> @"Edelweiss.4261" said:

> > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > No. Stop being lazy and go work for things.

>

> Most people do enough work at work. Games are a chance to get away from work.

Yes, i also work enough at work. Does that mean anet make the game easier for me? Thank god no. A lot of people like me have fun doing things the way the are. Why would anet reward you for not playing their content?

 

>This has nothing to do with laziness. If you want to continue **working inside the game**, that's fine, but don't force your mindset on others.

If the game feel like another job, don't play it. I have fun playing all gamemodes, it's a great way of "getting away from work" and i don't want anet to change it just because people with your mentality don't like it.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> I think its healthy for the rewards to be equivalent to each mode. That way, everyone’s happy.

 

But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> I only state that WvW should get some semblance of comparable rewards, pvp as well, for the time people put into it. Thats all.

I agree, every mode should get fulfilling rewards for its content. The PvP based modes got the basic reward system right but lack value and more specialized rewards. PvE on the other hand is the exact opposite, there are many ways to get a lot of gold and it has a s**t-ton of highly specilised rewards but the reward system as a whole is terrible and unlike PvP lacks overarking goals.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > I think its healthy for the rewards to be equivalent to each mode. That way, everyone’s happy.

>

> But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

 

That alienates more than the alternative. Do you really think WvW players want people taking up precious spots on their server without participating? PvE players who are there for the Gift of Battle only kill vet creatures or take monuments. And even if they join a blob and try to play the mode, they usually suck.

 

And I hear enough complaining in my guild about players afking in PvP. They are not there because they enjoy PvP, they spend time there for rewards. In a less "serious" but just as stupid manner did I do some daily "activities", like Crab Toss. You just enter it, stand at the side, wait and get your daily done. That might have alienated players who actually tried to win.

 

Encouraging people to mix and socialize might be a good thing, but that's not what's happening in this game. You cannot even socialize in pugs because nobody ever responds to you with more than 3 words, everybody just wants to get through the content as fast as possible. Guilds are the way to mix and socialize, not forced participation in content you don't like but need to do to reach your goal.

 

But I'm sure you will ignore everything I said here, create a straw man out of my post and then attack it.

[Alehin.3746]

>b-but i support game, i work and give anet my monies

Me too.

 

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Alehin.3746" said:

> > No. Stop being lazy and go work for things.

> Sure, legendary gear shouldn't just magically appear in your inventory just for creating an account but that's not a valid point against the actual topic of the thread.

>

It does. The game shouldn't be designed around spoiled/lazy players. GW2 is too easy already, we don't need changes like that.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > I think its healthy for the rewards to be equivalent to each mode. That way, everyone’s happy.

> >

> > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

>

> That alienates more than the alternative. Do you really think WvW players want people taking up precious spots on their server without participating? PvE players who are there for the Gift of Battle only kill vet creatures or take monuments. And even if they join a blob and try to play the mode, they usually suck.

>

> And I hear enough complaining in my guild about players afking in PvP. They are not there because they enjoy PvP, they spend time there for rewards. In a less "serious" but just as stupid manner did I do some daily "activities", like Crab Toss. You just enter it, stand at the side, wait and get your daily done. That might have alienated players who actually tried to win.

>

> Encouraging people to mix and socialize might be a good thing, but that's not what's happening in this game. You cannot even socialize in pugs because nobody ever responds to you with more than 3 words, everybody just wants to get through the content as fast as possible. Guilds are the way to mix and socialize, not forced participation in content you don't like but need to do to reach your goal.

>

> But I'm sure you will ignore everything I said here, create a straw man out of my post and then attack it.

 

Everyone sucks when he starts doing something. That's not an argument. Yeah, there will be those who'll stick to killing vets and capping ruins. But there are also those who find they like the game mode. And here's the thing - they won't be much. But they'll talk with their teammates. And their own point of view will be different than that of a hardcore WvWer. It influences the whole community, if slightly. I don't agree it leads to more alienation.

 

And guilds... guilds are too profiled now. If you want to talk with WvWers, you have to be in a WvW guild, and that already requires a lot of participation. Similarly there are the raid/fractal guilds. Of course, these are extreme examples. There are guilds that do a little of this and a little of that. But these are usually small (at least from my experience) and in the end they still lean toward a specific game mode. I haven't seen a guild where the influences I mentioned above can happen. Sure, it's just my experience and I might be wrong about that. But for me personally, the forced participation in different content was hugely beneficial.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > Lets compare stuff of PvE raiding and WvW leggy armors for a bit. A platinum rank player in WvW (higher than 98% of the database), meaning 8-10 pips on average, needs (lets say 9 pips/tick) 13.42 hours of weekly WvW to get the weekly cap of 1450 pips. Multiply that with 22 (the necessary ticket number to obtain the T2 legendary, or 29 to get the T3 legendary) , you get the numbers 295 (hours) and 389 hours, respectively. Those numbers are higher the lower your rank is (less for gold, silver etc). Now, to actually GET to platinum rank (above 2545), you need a substantial, a HUGE amount of time and WvW dedication. Waaaaay more than a PvE raider's time and dedication to get his/her first PvE raid leggy set, cause after you get to know boss mechanics (again, that does take way less time than what is required to get to plat rank), you can do all wings in 3hrs maximum/week.

> > > > But let's just say, for simplicity's sake, that this is fine. The difference in hours and playtime, i mean. It is not, but still.

> > > > What irks me the most is that PvE raiders get a bazillion, yes, I mean it, a crapload of amount on ascended weapon/armor/trinket drops with each boss, and with SELECTABLE stats. Unlike WvW where you MAY get a weaponchest/armorchest every 2 weeks to a month, or a core stat ring. NO selectable stat trinkets Ascended weapons/armor/trinkets are crucial to various WvW builds. You need to have 2-3 (if youre a dedicated player, mind) for each WvW toon, cause of build diversity.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for your time.

> > >

> > > The solution seems pretty obvious, doesn't it? Just raid for 3 hrs/week until you get all the selectable-stat ascended drops you need. Easy and fast, right?

> >

> > I only state that WvW should get some semblance of comparable rewards, pvp as well, for the time people put into it. Thats all.

>

> Well, it really depends on what your goals are, as a game designer. For instance, you can keep rewards in a certain part of the game intentionally higher in order to draw more people there. I fully agree that WvW rewards are generally lacking, but I kind of think that's OK. It's a primarily PvE game and the idea of playing just WvW to be "sufficient" feels wrong. I think it's healthy for the game that it gives incentive to the hardcore WvWers (or PvPers for that matter) to play PvE as well. Just as it is healthy for the game that it requires PvErs to play WvW for GoB.

 

Leggy PvE armor requires no GoB, unless I am mistaken. It is high tme ANET gives customers, PAYING customers, rewards. Not free stuff, by no means, but a sense of accomplishment when you spend time and money to a game mode (WvW in this instance). I dont ask for Xera skins or whatever, I dont ask for keep lords to drop legendaries but for the ever so slightly increased chance to gear my toon properly and efficiently.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

>

> So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

>

> And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

>

> In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

>

> I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

 

You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

> >

> > So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

> >

> > And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

> >

> > In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

> >

> > I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

>

> You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

 

Mate, don't take the wrong way, but you're vastly underestimating the skills needed to raid. They are different than what's needed in pvp modes, but that doesn't make them any less of a skill. When a PvEer sets foot in a WvW for the first time, he'd be a total noob. It will be the same for a vet WvW players trying to raid for the first time.

[ZDragon.3046]

I would like this for the weapons only. The armor should be gated to their respective categories how ever almost all the weapons start via pve and there should be an option to finish them without having to do other unrelated game modes that some people dont enjoy even if it takes longer to do it.

 

I wouldn't mind doing extra pve grind if i could skip the WvW part of making a legendary weapon. Spvp i can handle in short burst enough to get it done.

 

[Tyson.5160]

Honestly, spvp should have a unique legendary skin that is different from the Envoy set. Same as WvW, I can’t stand the envoy set, however if wvw and spvp gave a legendary armour set as well, which is on par as the transforming envoy set, then there may be few complaints.

[Assic.2746]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want.

>

> Just remember folks... “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

 

Nice, getting Mike's quote and assiging context to it. Well done.

 

Ascended gear is being thrown at players from each side. Players don't even need to craft it anymore.

 

* Ascended accessories can be bought after a week of gathering [Fresh Winterberries](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fresh_Winterberry "Fresh Winterberries") and other map currencies. It takes less than 10 minutes to gather the materials.

* Ascended armor can be obtained from simple achievements - collecting armor sets which are worth 1g per piece. That means you can have ascended armor part for around 18g instead of 100g you would have to spend to craft it. Ascened armor boxes drop from all kinds of content: raids, pvp, wvw and fractals and even open world pve.

* Same with ascended weapon boxes. Additionally you can get ascened weapons for less than 5g through the specialization collections.

 

Legendary items have the same statistics as ascended ones so yes Mike's statement is true players don't have to grind to get the highest quality gear. Because it is being thrown at us all the time from whatever kind of content we play. I have six full ascended sets. And if I want to changed stats I can just do it in Mystic Forge it costs 5g to stat swap the whole set.

 

People have time to farm maps for hours: Istan, bounty trains, champion trains, but when it comes to learning how to correctly play your profession in WvW/PvP/Raids then there is a problem: "I have work", "I have family", "I only play solo", "I don't have time".

 

PS.

When it comes to legendary gear I feel like people want more than they can chew. If you want your shinies then play specific content if not then ascened is equally good if not better because you can obtain multiple ascened items for the price of one legendary. **This game has a lot more end goals than afking in LA showing your shiny gear. If you set your goals too high then every day will be a grind. If you really want to play the game for fun then just play the game.**