IndigoSundown.5419 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). > > > > > > No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. > > > > While Q1 2014 does show more revenue than Q3 2013, it also represents a drop of 8413 MKW from Q4 2013. Sure, there have been fluctuations, as I said. However, looking at the revenue numbers from Q1 13 (likely the first quarter without heavy game sales) and Q3 15 (the last pre-HoT quarter), revenue fell from 36,382 MKW to 20,699 MKW. The only significant spike there is Q4 13 (likely holiday revenue). That's the overall trend, and it was indeed down. > > Well for starters you are dismissing spikes, rises and dips, which is just a ploy on try and warp the numbers to match your theory, or put another way, you are trying to force the numbers to mean what you want them to mean as opposed to taking them as the facts they are. Interesting, because that is what you are doing, not me. > The Fact is, that the numbers were moving up and down, with no direct trend. There were spikes and dips, prior to HoT sales. How much clearer does it have to be? Draw a graph. > After HoT, there was no spikes at all, just a dead ended decline. > > In fact, if you want to look at Trends, (which you have been trying to dismiss) you see that Post HoT there were _NO Holiday Sales_, just a gradual flat decline. Funny, Q4 14 was pre-HoT and it was lower than Q3 14. > Prior to HoT, Q1 always higher then Q4, Only in Q1 2015. Other Q1's were all lower than the prior Q4. So 1 out of 4. > Hence the "Spikes" that we talk about, with Q1-2016 being an expected exception due to Expansion Pre-sales with all the extra offerings, so if people planned to do a holiday gift, they would have Pre-ordered anyway.. > > But Q1-2017, sets the grim stage, is the Holiday Sales, and it is the same flat lined dead decline. > > Anyone in a business can tell you that is not a good sign. > > Now, numbers don't lie, and these numbers show clear as day that something happened after HoT, that really hurt the game. Yep, there was another drop with no upturn until PoF sales. HoT was no doubt a major factor, but what's not clear is how significant legendary access was. Based on what was being discussed in the forums for the first half of 2016, legendary concerns were mostly about the time between T2 Legendary Weapons, and later the hiatus on same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > I argue that after spending year and a half in WvW you cannot really be classified as "casual" any more. > Being casual is often more the description of the way you play the game, not of the time you spend on it. There are casuals that play for hours every day, and hardcores that can barely scrape few hours weekly. > > Hours a day isn't casual any more, or at least it will cease to be very soon. You can't help but learn things about a game you spend so much time in, and it affects your playstyle gradually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > I argue that after spending year and a half in WvW you cannot really be classified as "casual" any more. > > Being casual is often more the description of the way you play the game, not of the time you spend on it. There are casuals that play for hours every day, and hardcores that can barely scrape few hours weekly. > > > > > > Hours a day isn't casual any more, or at least it will cease to be very soon. You can't help but learn things about a game you spend so much time in, and it affects your playstyle gradually. That's also casual. The main diffeence is in attitude. Yes, veteran casuals (that _is_ a thing, you know) will play better than newbie ones, and will learn things in time as a natural process. Being hardcore means however that you'd want to expedite that process. Training, reading guides, paying attention to meta, etc - _that_ is not casual. Of course, it's not binary, there is almost noone who is fully casual, or who is 100% hardcore, but that's the main difference: casuals in general are unwilling to invest a lot of time into "preparing to have fun". They are also more likely to make playstyle choices because they seem fun, instead of them being more efficient. So, yeah, it is entirely possible to play WvW for year and a half (or longer), and/or play several hours a day, each day, while still remaining a casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > I argue that after spending year and a half in WvW you cannot really be classified as "casual" any more. > > Being casual is often more the description of the way you play the game, not of the time you spend on it. There are casuals that play for hours every day, and hardcores that can barely scrape few hours weekly. > > > > > > Hours a day isn't casual any more, or at least it will cease to be very soon. You can't help but learn things about a game you spend so much time in, and it affects your playstyle gradually. You have a different definition of what a casual player is than Astral and me. It doesn't really matter though, because there are players who are willing to play several hours per day but cannot do raids or any hard content. We can call them casuals or regulars or any other word you prefer; these players, if they choose to play WvW, will get legendary armor. If they choose to stick to PvE, they will not. You don't need more than basic knowledge of the game or your class to get participation in WvW, in fact, most players there just follow the commander or take camps. On another note: didn't you repeatedly say that players will not improve in fractals if they climb up the tiers in another topic (arguing that tiers would make no difference for raids)? That playing the easier tiers will not teach you how to handle the harder tiers, and in fact make it harder for you to handle more difficult mechanics because you got so used to the easier, more forgiving versions of it? Now you seem to say that someone who's simply playing many hours in easy open world PvE or WvW will, by pure time spent doing easy content, somehow become a better player that cannot be called "casual" anymore. To me, these stances seem to contradict each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > You're kidding yourself if you believe you don't do things in MMO's you don't like to get gear you want. The only thing that stops you from doing something you don't like to get gear you want is that you have a limit of how much time you are willing to do something you don't like to get it. Indeed. It's not binary, so of course there's always a degree of tolerance towards things we don't like. We generally are able to stomach things we strongly dislike in very small amounts (assuming the incentive is good enough) and things that are more ambivalent in greater amounts. Put those two together, and ask someone to face a lot of something they really strongly dislike, and most people will not go through with it. Problem with raids is that for most people they are straight in that third category. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > maybe you don't like I classified that as 'lazy' ... I'd classify it as "sane". It's not work, so why would anyone want to do something they strongly dislike for a long, long time (unless they were masochist)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > Of course, it's not binary, there is almost noone who is fully casual, or who is 100% hardcore, but that's the main difference: casuals in general are unwilling to invest a lot of time into "preparing to have fun". Then how can you claim someone who invested literal months getting a particular reward could still be considered casual? That's exactly what I've been saying the whole time - the effort and the time it takes are too great for a casual player. You may *start* as a casual player and finish it successfully, but by the end of it you will no longer be casual. Of course, like you said it's not a binary property. I'm not saying you'll be uber hardcore elite pro player. But you'll be quite invested one, by virtue of the sheer number of hours you actually spent in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > On another note: didn't you repeatedly say that players will not improve in fractals if they climb up the tiers in another topic (arguing that tiers would make no difference for raids)? That playing the easier tiers will not teach you how to handle the harder tiers, and in fact make it harder for you to handle more difficult mechanics because you got so used to the easier, more forgiving versions of it? Now you seem to say that someone who's simply playing many hours in easy open world PvE or WvW will, by pure time spent doing easy content, somehow become a better player that cannot be called "casual" anymore. To me, these stances seem to contradict each other. When regarding them out of the context. I think I've explained it once, but let me do it again: Improving over time, or over climbing difficulty tiers is a real thing, but it only goes so far. In fractals, you *can* learn the basics of the combat system like that, gradually increasing your capabilities as the content challenges you ever so slightly more. In much the same way, exposure to WvW will make you learn the basics of the mode - capping objectives, uses of supply and so forth. However, nether can prepare you for the actual endgame in the respective mode. Note the use of the word "basics" above. That's the limitation of this approach. Once you need to learn the finer details, the intricacies which make the difference between a newbie and a veteran, you'll need to get exposed to the real deal. No amount of playing normal mode fractals will prepare you for their CMs or raids (which are similar in difficulty). No amount of wandering around capping objectives in WvW will prepare you to fight or lead efficiently a guild squad. You need to step in and challenge yourself to make that difference. There's no other way, and here's why: When learning the basics, you're learning a fixed, limited set of "rules" which define how the game works on a basic level. You're learning to step out of red rings, to time your dodge, the value of boons and the danger of conditions. Above that, it becomes much more fluid and fuzzy. There are no hard rules to learn any more. Instead, there's more of a continuum, a space of various situations which arise from the combination of the rules you've already learned. The game cannot teach you about all of them, they are simply way, way too many. But you can teach yourself - by exposure and practice. In a sense it reminds me of the process of mastering Go. The rules are simple and you can learn them by heart in 5 minutes. But it can take a lifetime to master the game. Explaining helps. Teaching is possible. But ultimately the only way to progress is by playing, by exposing yourself to the variety and the depth of the game. There's that saying, "a master has failed more times than you've ever tried". That's the price of mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Of course, it's not binary, there is almost noone who is fully casual, or who is 100% hardcore, but that's the main difference: casuals in general are unwilling to invest a lot of time into "preparing to have fun". > > Then how can you claim someone who invested literal months getting a particular reward could still be considered casual? But that's the point - the person in the example _didn't_. It _wasn't_ about a PvE player spending a year on WvW to get armor. It was about a WvW player. The person that was simply playing WvW as he always did before. Casually. And still being able to progress on the way towards legendary armor. Without ever specifically aiming for it. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Improving over time, or over climbing difficulty tiers is a real thing, but it only goes so far. In fractals, you *can* learn the basics of the combat system like that, gradually increasing your capabilities as the content challenges you ever so slightly more. In much the same way, exposure to WvW will make you learn the basics of the mode - capping objectives, uses of supply and so forth. > > However, nether can prepare you for the actual endgame in the respective mode. Note the use of the word "basics" above. That's the limitation of this approach. Once you need to learn the finer details, the intricacies which make the difference between a newbie and a veteran, you'll need to get exposed to the real deal. No amount of playing normal mode fractals will prepare you for their CMs or raids (which are similar in difficulty). No amount of wandering around capping objectives in WvW will prepare you to fight or lead efficiently a guild squad. You need to step in and challenge yourself to make that difference. See? And now you get why you can play hours every day, each day, for years in a mode, and still be casual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > Of course, it's not binary, there is almost noone who is fully casual, or who is 100% hardcore, but that's the main difference: casuals in general are unwilling to invest a lot of time into "preparing to have fun". > > > > Then how can you claim someone who invested literal months getting a particular reward could still be considered casual? > But that's the point - the person in the example _didn't_. I _wasn't_ talking about a PvE player spending a year on WvW to get armor. I was speaking about a WvW player. The person that was simply playing WvW as he always did before. Casually. > I still disagree. Years of playing, that's not casual. You *could* remain casual in PvE for a period this long. But in a competitive environment? I just don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). > > > > > > > > No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. > > > > > > While Q1 2014 does show more revenue than Q3 2013, it also represents a drop of 8413 MKW from Q4 2013. Sure, there have been fluctuations, as I said. However, looking at the revenue numbers from Q1 13 (likely the first quarter without heavy game sales) and Q3 15 (the last pre-HoT quarter), revenue fell from 36,382 MKW to 20,699 MKW. The only significant spike there is Q4 13 (likely holiday revenue). That's the overall trend, and it was indeed down. > > > > Well for starters you are dismissing spikes, rises and dips, which is just a ploy on try and warp the numbers to match your theory, or put another way, you are trying to force the numbers to mean what you want them to mean as opposed to taking them as the facts they are. > > Interesting, because that is what you are doing, not me. > > > The Fact is, that the numbers were moving up and down, with no direct trend. There were spikes and dips, prior to HoT sales. > > How much clearer does it have to be? Draw a graph. Actually, Ok let me help you out, and draw you the Graph.  Now, take a look, you can see there was a minor decline, more a dip then a trend. Then you can see clearly what the earnings looked like after HoT. Now, that is a downward Trend, picture perfect example of it as well. > Yep, there was another drop with no upturn until PoF sales. HoT was no doubt a major factor, but what's not clear is how significant legendary access was. Based on what was being discussed in the forums for the first half of 2016, legendary concerns were mostly about the time between T2 Legendary Weapons, and later the hiatus on same. Legendary Access has always been an Issue. That was why WvW was removed from Map Completion, to make it easier. Equally so, HoT was not well received, in general, and there was some minor issues about the canceling of the HoT Legendary Journeys. Raids have always been a issue of contentment, and as such, PvE and the only Legendary Armor Skin being locked behind them, simply can't be helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > Of course, it's not binary, there is almost noone who is fully casual, or who is 100% hardcore, but that's the main difference: casuals in general are unwilling to invest a lot of time into "preparing to have fun". > > > > > > Then how can you claim someone who invested literal months getting a particular reward could still be considered casual? > > But that's the point - the person in the example _didn't_. I _wasn't_ talking about a PvE player spending a year on WvW to get armor. I was speaking about a WvW player. The person that was simply playing WvW as he always did before. Casually. > > > > I still disagree. Years of playing, that's not casual. You *could* remain casual in PvE for a period this long. But in a competitive environment? I just don't believe it. Well, why not? I play pool with my friends most week ends, that's competitive, there is a winner and a loser, and we have been doing it since we were kids, it's an game of escape for us. If you came in and told us that after 20+ years on the battlefield of slate that we somehow became pro's or whatever, we would laugh so hard we might spill our beers. We might be a little better then when we started, but, we are by no means serious about the game itself, we chat, drink some brews, laugh a bit, grab a burger and shoot some pool.. While it is a competitive game we play it to socialize. Are you telling me you don't think some people can treat sPvP the same way? I laugh at that.. we have our intoxicated assholes screaming like little shits because they lost in the pool hall as well, we just don't play those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > > > > > > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. > > > > > > But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. > > > > Maybe you think that way simply because you are not willing to do what is needed to make the money? if you were, you would not think that way... you also would not be wasting away your life getting gud at games. > > > > Or maybe you're simply not gud enough.. Look at Ninja making around 100K a month playing games, and yah.. he's not doing PvE scripted raids thinking that is where the challenge is. > > Im sorry that my fun is not your fun. But can you please not devalue my fun because "you just dont want to do whats necessary" to get a shiny that hardly impacts your gameplay? > > And in order to complete, get rewarded, and have fun in the raids of gw2 i need 1/10th of ninja's ability to play fortnite well. > I am not taking away or devaluing your fun at all. Any idea that I am is purely an illusion of your own fabrication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. Use a better crybaby example next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > His example is sound. The topic is about having other ways to get the rewards because you dont like the ones that exists. He clearly doesnt like world exploration so why should he do it and u shouldnt do raids? Do slower raid prog, do easy encounters and then jump back out to your fave content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > > > > > > > > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. > > > > > > > > But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. > > > > > > Maybe you think that way simply because you are not willing to do what is needed to make the money? if you were, you would not think that way... you also would not be wasting away your life getting gud at games. > > > > > > Or maybe you're simply not gud enough.. Look at Ninja making around 100K a month playing games, and yah.. he's not doing PvE scripted raids thinking that is where the challenge is. > > > > Im sorry that my fun is not your fun. But can you please not devalue my fun because "you just dont want to do whats necessary" to get a shiny that hardly impacts your gameplay? > > > > And in order to complete, get rewarded, and have fun in the raids of gw2 i need 1/10th of ninja's ability to play fortnite well. > > > > I am not taking away or devaluing your fun at all. Any idea that I am is purely an illusion of your own fabrication. Any easier method to aquire the armor will devalue the effort existing owners have put. Its like giving away the stellar weapons for a fraction of the price and execting that those who have them wont be pissed about it. Both stellar weapons and envoy armor require a specific way of aquisition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can farm pips at a slow pace, you can get shards at a slow pace. Why do I have to play content i dont like (map completion With vistas, running around, doing heart events)? Shouldnt anet provide me With an altwrnative way to suitable my playstyle? Double standards, oh those double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can't. No amount of LIs will help you if you don't have the collections done. And you won't do those by casual play. > @"zealex.9410" said: > His example is sound. The topic is about having other ways to get the rewards because you dont like the ones that exists. He clearly doesnt like world exploration so why should he do it and u shouldnt do raids? I have no idea, honestly. If he feels so strongly about the issue and wants a wvw/spvp specific path to legendary weapons, he probably should start a thread. I'd definitely support such a suggestion. I mentioned this many times before. In fact, he may have a better success with it that i do, because no matter how neglected those two modes are, the WvW and SPvP devs at least _can_ be talked to. > @"zealex.9410" said: > Any easier method to aquire the armor will devalue the effort existing owners have put. First, "different" doesn't mean "easier" (yes, i know that for you everything that is not raids is by default easier, but i tend to disagree). Second, you must value that effort (and raids) very low if you think more people being able to get a shiny could ever devalue it. Do you value the effort or the shiny? Because in the first case you have nothing to worry about - _your_ raids won't get any easier. > @"zealex.9410" said: > Its like giving away the stellar weapons for a fraction of the price and execting that those who have them wont be pissed about it. Do you raid because you want the legendary armor, or because you like raiding? Because your example works only if it's former and _not_ the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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