Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. And i asked for a way to get the exploration gifts, as a wvwer. I dont like open world map exploration, much like an OW pver dislikes wvw. Why should i not get a reward track of map exploration, to do it several times to get what i want, without leaving the game mode i like? 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STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > > > > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can farm pips at a slow pace, you can get shards at a slow pace. Why do I have to play content i dont like (map completion With vistas, running around, doing heart events)? Shouldnt anet provide me With an altwrnative way to suitable my playstyle? Double standards, oh those double standards. Well then, if it takes 10 min, and is as easy as Map Completion, then Map completion should reward Legendary armor. So.,. since you think that there is no difference between map completion and doing a raid, and they are both the same level of imposition on someone's play.. they should have the same rewards.. glad we agree that you agree there should be more paths to legendary gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. > > > > > > > > > > But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. > > > > > > > > Maybe you think that way simply because you are not willing to do what is needed to make the money? if you were, you would not think that way... you also would not be wasting away your life getting gud at games. > > > > > > > > Or maybe you're simply not gud enough.. Look at Ninja making around 100K a month playing games, and yah.. he's not doing PvE scripted raids thinking that is where the challenge is. > > > > > > Im sorry that my fun is not your fun. But can you please not devalue my fun because "you just dont want to do whats necessary" to get a shiny that hardly impacts your gameplay? > > > > > > And in order to complete, get rewarded, and have fun in the raids of gw2 i need 1/10th of ninja's ability to play fortnite well. > > > > > > > I am not taking away or devaluing your fun at all. Any idea that I am is purely an illusion of your own fabrication. > > Any easier method to aquire the armor will devalue the effort existing owners have put. > No.. we are talking about Fun. No one's fun is being denied.. now if you wanted to say "my e-peen waving and frail sense of self worth would be affected" that would be another point.. But in no way is someones ability to enjoy and have fun doing content affected at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > > > > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > > > > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > > > > > > > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can farm pips at a slow pace, you can get shards at a slow pace. Why do I have to play content i dont like (map completion With vistas, running around, doing heart events)? Shouldnt anet provide me With an altwrnative way to suitable my playstyle? Double standards, oh those double standards. > > Well then, if it takes 10 min, and is as easy as Map Completion, then Map completion should reward Legendary armor. Do wvw or pvp, then. They DO reward leggy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > > > > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > > > > > > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > > > > > > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > > > > > > > > > > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can farm pips at a slow pace, you can get shards at a slow pace. Why do I have to play content i dont like (map completion With vistas, running around, doing heart events)? Shouldnt anet provide me With an altwrnative way to suitable my playstyle? Double standards, oh those double standards. > > > > Well then, if it takes 10 min, and is as easy as Map Completion, then Map completion should reward Legendary armor. > > Do wvw or pvp, then. They DO reward leggy armor. and we are back to square one..again again, you ignore the time investment to do WvW, vs doing Open World. You have got to be trolling at this point. Yes.. great idea, force players to do content they hate.. there is no better way to bleed them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 All I can say is if there is anyone that is working at Anet, and does not see that there is a huge issue with raids and the reward structure at this point.. well.. no pity when the lay offs happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am still waiting for a wvw and pvp way of getting gifts of exploration(Tyria-Maguuma-PoF), cause of not having to forsake doing anything else they enjoy in the game > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You should be happy you no longer need WvW to complete your Map Exploration. > > > > > > > > > > > > I want a wvw only or a pvp only way for gifts of exploration for all maps. Why cant i get that, and anet forces me to play pve content i dont like? > > > > > > > > > > Wait, you can map complete at a slow pace, you can just drop in and get a PoI or a WP or a Vista, and move on right back to WvW, with barely a dent taking from your game time, unlike someone farming pips which locks a player into time-based style of farming that game-mode. > > > > > > > > > > Use a better crybaby example next time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can also do escort, trio and vg (which take what? 10 mins each?) and do what you keep doing. You can farm pips at a slow pace, you can get shards at a slow pace. Why do I have to play content i dont like (map completion With vistas, running around, doing heart events)? Shouldnt anet provide me With an altwrnative way to suitable my playstyle? Double standards, oh those double standards. > > > > > > Well then, if it takes 10 min, and is as easy as Map Completion, then Map completion should reward Legendary armor. > > > > Do wvw or pvp, then. They DO reward leggy armor. > > and we are back to square one..again again, you ignore the time investment to do WvW, vs doing Open World. > > You have got to be trolling at this point. > > Yes.. great idea, force players to do content they hate.. there is no better way to bleed them off. I ignore nothing. Strawman arguments all over, but hey, noone is judging. I want an alternative way of getting exploration gifts, playing the mode i like, just like you want leggy armor, playing the mode you like. And your reply was "do vistas, or poi, slowly" but god forbid if you earn shards/pips/LI slowly! If you cannot see the irony of what you say, that is not on me. Have a good Day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > I ignore nothing. Strawman arguments all over, but hey, noone is judging. I want an alternative way of getting exploration gifts, playing the mode i like, just like you want leggy armor, playing the mode you like. And your reply was "do vistas, or poi, slowly" but god forbid if you earn shards/pips/LI slowly! If you cannot see the irony of what you say, that is not on me. Have a good Day. Well beyond the fact that you CAN'T.. you have to put in direct Time to Farm Pips. Which is something you keep missing. but don't let the reality of the game get the way of your trolling strawman arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon.1726 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > All I can say is if there is anyone that is working at Anet, and does not see that there is a huge issue with raids and the reward structure at this point.. well.. no pity when the lay offs happen. Where do you see a "huge issue with raids and the rewards"? I see just the same handfull people argueing in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > All I can say is if there is anyone that is working at Anet, and does not see that there is a huge issue with raids and the reward structure at this point.. well.. no pity when the lay offs happen. > > Where do you see a "huge issue with raids and the rewards"? I see just the same handfull people argueing in circles. Umm humm.. Ok.. well if that is all you see.. then I guess you can break out the tissues and cry a river for them as the profits continue to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > and we are back to square one..again again, you ignore the time investment to do WvW, vs doing Open World. > > You have got to be trolling at this point. > > Yes.. great idea, force players to do content they hate.. there is no better way to bleed them off. I really wish I knew who is forcing you. I never felt forced to make any legendaries and I probably never will. They all are, no matter which content they are behind, a huge time investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. 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Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. 3/10, the second healer can be anything else, the might uptime is easy to keep up even with 1 magi druid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > 3/10, the second healer can be anything else, the might uptime is easy to keep up even with 1 magi druid. It theoretically is, but your typical LFG-squad will almost always want a second druid to be sure about that. They'll also want the utilities, so yeah, it isn't just about heal or might-uptime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > > > 3/10, the second healer can be anything else, the might uptime is easy to keep up even with 1 magi druid. > > It theoretically is, but your typical LFG-squad will almost always want a second druid to be sure about that. They'll also want the utilities, so yeah, it isn't just about heal or might-uptime. That's why you make your own party with friends or guild instead of joining them. You can cover all utilities by yourself. 3 spirits or 2 spirits + tides/empower or protect me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > > > > > 3/10, the second healer can be anything else, the might uptime is easy to keep up even with 1 magi druid. > > > > It theoretically is, but your typical LFG-squad will almost always want a second druid to be sure about that. They'll also want the utilities, so yeah, it isn't just about heal or might-uptime. > > That's why you make your own party with friends or guild instead of joining them. You can cover all utilities by yourself. 3 spirits or 2 spirits + tides/empower or protect me. I'd like to - I really do, but there are certain design-choices which make that rather impossible. The two main-reasons being GW2 being one of the least sociable MMORPGs and the reward-structures (Why should friends who already have a static raid in another static as well?). There are many reasons why GW2s raiding-content is as inaccessible as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. Gotl is aplied to 10 ppl so might isnt hard to achieve even if it was hard for someome thats not an issue of balance thats just that players not being good. The other sub squad if needs healing can and should take a stronger healer like tempest or firebrand or rev. Whatever utility ud get from 2 druids ud get from 1 druid as well and no, spotter is hardly a worthehile buff for its bps, compaired to tempest and its insane utility. If you care for the group dps of the second druid then bring another dps and see him/her double or tirple what ever dps a second druid will give to the group. If you think joining an already formed and on going raiding guild is hard then join a training discord and get your li that way. I agree that a guild browser would be bae but thats quite diff from "make an easy mode and give lgenedary armor from there too" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raizel.8175 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > I agree that a guild browser would be bae but thats quite diff from "make an easy mode and give lgenedary armor from there too" Again: It's not about easy-mode-raids, it's about the realistic chance to get into raiding-content in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > > > 3/10, the second healer can be anything else, the might uptime is easy to keep up even with 1 magi druid. > > It theoretically is, but your typical LFG-squad will almost always want a second druid to be sure about that. They'll also want the utilities, so yeah, it isn't just about heal or might-uptime. thats not the balance's problem. Thats pugs and what they want to pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "suffer heavily" is due player perception not reality or design choices. Sure its harder and hence less accessible but the degree ppl make it out to be is overblown to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player perception is formed through game-design. MMORPGs are all about manipulating their players. It's also not just purely because of player perception. It's also because of actual design-choices like only having trinity-gameplay in raids, having a strong contrast in difficulty between OW-content and raids (which aren't really hard compared to other MMORPGs), the ability to easily exclude people through the ability to post LI/KP and stuff like the absolutely terrible class-balance in PvE. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Class balance is not terrible for 1, kp/li are meassures for players to get ppl of the experiemce they want for the task and theres nothing wrong with that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is forced perception from the ideas players have of other games and create this image in their heads that is in no way indicative of the actual raid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also trinity isnt required but for some bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * The class-balance in PvE is absolutely terrible having Chrono and Druid as the worst offenders. Denying this fact is pure nihilism. > > > > > > > * The KP/LI-stuff is pure bull**it. The discriminating factor should always be skill and both KP/LI are neither a proof of skill nor for the lack of skill. KP/LI "hard"-lock people out of content while people in more traditional MMORPGs are only "soft"-locked out of content since gear-progression is mostly also bound to difficulty-progression. ANet failed to implement a natural and intuitive way into raiding-content. You simply don't have the huge and atrocious pseudo-elitism GW2 offers in most other MMORPGs which are focused on instanced PvE. > > > > > > > * The trinity is required for every single raid-encounter since the trinity in GW2 isn't just your typical tank/heal/dps-trinity but also the hugely broken support-trinity consisting of the worst offenders of GW2s massive PvE-inbalance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that due to certain game-design-choices, certain content - namely raids - suffer heavily from accessibility-problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thankfully, wvw and pvp also offer leggy armor. Anyone can do those at a slow pace. Not just raiding. Unless people want the exclusive skins > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone likes to do PvP and/or WvW. Especially WvW is dependent on your own server. There should be accessible legendary armor in every of the three game-modes. I'm not even against raid-locked legendary armor. I'm just against the huge inaccessibility of raiding-content which is a serious problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to play a healer you can play any of the others since only 1 druid is required. If you want to play a tank well yes chrono is meta. If you want to play dps play what ever. Ye sounds terrible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow has achievements blocking you from joining groups in top of gearscore. None is entitled to join every group, ppl have the right to set their own group requirement. If you dont like it make your own group or join groups that dont have so big entey fee. Stop looking for an easy carry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol it is highly suggested that you bring a healer in fractals as well and chrono just makes it easier. You either have a problem with trinity or the classes that said trinity promotes not both. If you hate that bringing a chrono or a druid in a raid is highly highly advised then dont play chrono or druid play one of the other roles in the raid. > > > > > > > > > > * Yes, of course I can play other healing-specializations than druid. Will I get accepted that way though? No, of course not, because it's not just that Druid already has the image of being the main-healer of the game, thus people will almost always prioritize Druids over every other healing-specialization, it's also that Druid brings a lot of vital utilities just like Chrono being also over-utilized making these two specializations awfully overpowered in PvE-content. I don't sound terrible, the balance in PvE is in fact horrible. > > > > > * I'd rather have certain achievements and a certain gearscore (maybe full ascended in the case of GW2) as entry-requirements than a bazillion LI/KP. Yeah, of course people have the right to set their own requirements. Is it healthy for the game and its community though if nearly every single LFG consists of stuff like "100+ LI/20 KP"? No, of course not, since that hard-locks people out of content and disrupts the natural mentoring-circle which is essential for every MMORPG. It's not about being carried through content. It's about the realistic (!) chance to get into content. > > > > > * Your third point disregards reality. If you'd take a look into the LFG at any time, you'd see that it's mostly Chronos and Druids people search since these specializations don't have adequate alternatives thus locking almost always 4 out of 10 slots. That 2 out of 18 elite-specializations (that's even ignoring core-builds) - 11% - make out 40% (!) of your typical squad-composition is just awful game-design and it's even worse in fractals! The Chrono/Druid-Supremacy is a major problem this game and especially raid-content suffers from. > > > > > > > > 3/10 slots*. Also if you cant join a group with 150 li requirement thats fine make a group of your own or find a guild and raid with them. > > > > > > > > No matter how much you say it 2 classes being more sought after. 1 more so than the other doesnt make the balance horrible. because at the end out of the 10 raid spots they take 3 spots and u dont even need them to complete the content. > > > > > > No, 4 out of 10 slots since your second subgroup also needs a healer and that will almost always be druid to make perma-might easier. (3 out of 10 is already awful.) You also seem to forget basic human nature and especially what the general MMORPG-audience has degenerated into. People mostly play games for the feeling of progress/being rewarded nowadays and not for the general gaming-experience anymore. Just look at stuff like the "monday clear"-mentality or people who are whining when they need more than an hour for daily fractals and cms. For a lot of people, MMORPGs sadly have become some sort of second job. Couple that with the general design of GW2 which doesn't force people to carry their own weight in most parts of the game and you'll see why the raiding-community is as secluded as it is. Decent players will probably always be suspicious about LFGs without some sort LI/KP-requirement. Finding a decent raiding-guild is also comparatively hard since almost every guild requires you to play multiple classes and that you already have a certain number of LI/KP. That's why this game is in dire need of a decent guild-browser (also considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring), because forums are always only used by a minority. > > > > > > ...and yeah, probably the majority of people will agree with me that the game is utterly unbalanced in regards of the Chrono/Druid-Supremacy. I mean, it isn't just the overtuned offensive support which approx. doubles everyones dps, it's also the overtuned defensive support and utilities. > > > > I agree that a guild browser would be bae but thats quite diff from "make an easy mode and give lgenedary armor from there too" > > Again: It's not about easy-mode-raids, it's about the realistic chance to get into raiding-content in the first place. Its pretty high just join a training guild and get the first few li from there. Upload some log on the raiding thingy so you get a name out for your performance and then join a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Well.. I missed the WoW Train Wreck .. would have been great see the discussions that happened right before the fall. In either case, I am enjoying watching this train wreck, and seeing the way the game is killing itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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