Feanor.2358 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 It's not "doing nothing" though. It's developing more raids faster. Purity of purpose, right? You focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead of developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > It's not "doing nothing" though. It's developing more raids faster. Purity of purpose, right? You focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead of developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualWanderer.5824 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Some kind of LFR would be great. I used to be a mythic raider in wow, i am doing fractal CMs in gw2 daily, id do all the dungeons if people would still run them too, but i can't get a group that would pick up and speed clear on a weekly basis the raids. it's just SO DIFFICULT. The raid bosses are very easy as is, w1-w4 are simple, and the w5 i've seen are easy as pie too. I have 25 li, i've done most of the w1-w4 bosses, but i can't pug it since even for VG 50+ is usually the req. Getting a dedicated group to do them is the real problem. It's hard in WoW, but it's amplified 100fold in GW2. Most players are casual, 2 evenings a week for raiding is already a lot for them. Wiping and progressing on bosses is something they dread, they get angry and leave after a couple of wipes. It's ridiculous. I've tried countless training groups, training guilds and all that, people usually just don't want to commit. So what i'm saying is - the raids are pretty well done story wise, i'd like to explore them at least and see what it's all about. Ingame. Make a "story mode" for raids. Minimal difficulty, lfr system where random people join, exclude the possibility of griefing, and let players at least see what the bosses and raid wings look like. With minimal rewards. Making an easier difficulty without the lfr system where random ppl join won't solve the problem. Training groups will still disperse after a wipe or two, and in pugs there will still be a 50+li req for "easy mode" VG. People will still be unable to even attempt a boss that is easier than the first one in normal mode in WoW's Antorus, not because of lack of gear, or class knowledge, but because they will be asked by EVERYONE to know how to kill a boss they have never killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > It's not "doing nothing" though. It's developing more raids faster. Purity of purpose, right? You focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead of developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended. > > Why? Because it's using your efforts more efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverstoned.2695 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 We already have easy and hard mode (for some bosses). Easy mode is normal mode. Hard mode is Challenge mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"oliverstoned.2695" said: > We already have easy and hard mode (for some bosses). Easy mode is normal mode. Hard mode is Challenge mode. Right. With very few exceptions, normal bossesalready are at the level of what would normally be the easy mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Sykper.6583" said: > They are actually better at adding content to the game than fixing the old stuff. Yes indeed. Sadly that's not only true for Arenanet but for every type of software as anyone with even a tiny experience of coding knows this. Adding new things is considerably easier than tweaking old things, especially in an environment where developers change, new people come, others move on, and more often, teams are being moved around to work on other parts of the same project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"CasualWanderer.5824" said: > Some kind of LFR would be great. > I used to be a mythic raider in wow, i am doing fractal CMs in gw2 daily, id do all the dungeons if people would still run them too, but i can't get a group that would pick up and speed clear on a weekly basis the raids. it's just SO DIFFICULT. The raid bosses are very easy as is, w1-w4 are simple, and the w5 i've seen are easy as pie too. > I have 25 li, i've done most of the w1-w4 bosses, but i can't pug it since even for VG 50+ is usually the req. > > Getting a dedicated group to do them is the real problem. It's hard in WoW, but it's amplified 100fold in GW2. Most players are casual, 2 evenings a week for raiding is already a lot for them. Wiping and progressing on bosses is something they dread, they get angry and leave after a couple of wipes. It's ridiculous. > I've tried countless training groups, training guilds and all that, people usually just don't want to commit. > > So what i'm saying is - the raids are pretty well done story wise, i'd like to explore them at least and see what it's all about. Ingame. > Make a "story mode" for raids. Minimal difficulty, lfr system where random people join, exclude the possibility of griefing, and let players at least see what the bosses and raid wings look like. With minimal rewards. > > Making an easier difficulty without the lfr system where random ppl join won't solve the problem. Training groups will still disperse after a wipe or two, and in pugs there will still be a 50+li req for "easy mode" VG. People will still be unable to even attempt a boss that is easier than the first one in normal mode in WoW's Antorus, not because of lack of gear, or class knowledge, but because they will be asked by EVERYONE to know how to kill a boss they have never killed. I do like your insight into the wow raiding scene. What is a bit different with gw2 are these are side stories to the game apparently(w1-3, I could agree with throwing certain characters into w4 was a bit of a ball buster)while in wow, the final plot is played out through a raid boss. Honestly if I had a magic lamp, I would ask for a LFR system into the current gw2 Raids, the likelihood of it happening is hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon.1726 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > It's not "doing nothing" though. It's developing more raids faster. Purity of purpose, right? You focus on developing content for its intended audience, instead of developing a version of one for the audience it was never intended. > > > > Why? > > Because it's using your efforts more efficiently. No it's not, it's just using them on the things *you* want rather than on the things everyone else wants. If we were to apply your philosophy to the game itself then raids wouldn't even exist, because they're distinctly at ods with the "purity of purpose" of the "intended audience" of the game Guild Wars 2. As of HoT's announcement GW2 was firmly a game of people who were exiles from MMOs with a raiding culture, players who wanted to get as far as possible *away* from raiding culture, and yet ANet was like "hey, raids!" So if GW2 can ruin that aspect of itself by adding raids in the first place, the least they can do is offer a version that also appeals to the core audience of the game as a whole, right? Wouldn't that be an even more efficient use of their efforts than to create content for only a small niche audience? > @"oliverstoned.2695" said: > We already have easy and hard mode (for some bosses). Easy mode is normal mode. Hard mode is Challenge mode. But we need a mode that is easi*er* than what you call the "normal mode" since the "normal mode" is considerably harder than the other content in this game. That's what people are asking for when they ask for an "easy mode," not merely that people rename the existing modes. What would even be the point of that? > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". Ok. You *do* understand that you'll never have to play easy mode if you don't think you'd enjoy it, right? I mean, if you already enjoy the current versions, you can just keep playing those and you'll literally be missing out on nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > Why are they struggling in Cairn? What exactly is it about the fight that they find difficult and how can it be addressed? A broad statement as X boss is too hard does not offer much in the way of how to make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. It's like wanting to be offered a harness and a bungee rope for getting out of bed. It's missing the whole point, the whole purpose. Missing it by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. And now you're not only wanting a bungee rope for getting out of bed, you want spectacular photo shots of it. Sounds kinda silly, doesn't it? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > > > > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. It's like wanting to be offered a harness and a bungee rope for getting out of bed. It's missing the whole point, the whole purpose. Missing it by a mile. Sure but isn’t this a casual MMO? Wasn’t that the design? Wasn’t that the purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > > > > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. Which is fair, but what if you wanted Legendary Armor. See I think there’s some issues here. Give people the challenge, sure, but now your baiting people who want to obtain armor set into playing something they didn't want to play or telling them that this isn’t meant for you. See this Legendary Armor envoy set... it is not meant for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 same could be said about the pvp/wvw skins could it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I used to play Everquest back in 1999 and I still remember doing Raids in the Plane of Fear, where half of the classes had their best armor sets as random drops on certain mobs. In that game, every mob was a raid boss. This still seems to be the same thinking that GW2 wants to achieve as of right now with Legendary Armor. I thought they want to revolutionize MMOs and not stick to the same old game. Perhaps if they offered another way to obtain the envoy set or just obtain the skin for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > same could be said about the pvp/wvw skins could it not? Yes and no, I’m actually working on a full set of pvp Legendary Armor right now, started working on it when they announced it last year. You have way more control with the progress of pvp/wvw armor. This feels more reminiscent to making a Legendary Weapon, then the Raid set. I can drop 6 hours into pvp and see real progress, where I can drop 8 hours into raids and receive nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > same could be said about the pvp/wvw skins could it not? Those need to be fixed too, one problem does nothing to excuse another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > >Nope, I most certainly don't have to agree on anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You concede by default it's ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm burying my face in my hands right now. Figuratively and literally. "The amount of bugs should be negligible"? Oh my... As a rule of thumb, nothing is ever negligible or easy in game development. It often seems so, to outside people, because they imagine small, contained changes. What they fail to take into account is a game is a vast, complex system of interlocked sub-systems. There is very rarely such thing as a "contained" change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm well aware of the perils of bug-chasing, I do it daily, but my point is, this is largely not changes to *systems,* like adding entirely new mechanics, and mostly just a tweak of existing properties. If an attack works fine dealing 500 damage per hit then it should work just as well dealing 100 per hit. It's easier to go down than up, too. What you're arguing sounds like a "mysticism" argument, "don't tempt the dark gods of the forest, you never know when they will strike." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Not to mention finding the proper balance between "too challenging for non-raiders" and "complete faceroll" will require a lot of tweaking and even more testing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And again, getting it right on the first try is a lot less vital than with the initial raid releases, because nobody cares too much if they get it wrong. They can fix it in post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That’s fine. Then perhaps after finishing Raid Wing 10 they can take a break and develop an easy mode. 10 raid wings should keep people busy especially if they decide to put in a LI cap, which is going add it’s own set of problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesnt work like that. Those arent 10 new wings, at that point u will be doing wings 1 to 9 for years so an immense w8 for all the easy modes plus wing 10 would flat out kill the scene. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same thing aplies to fractals and every bit of content in this game, the fact that it looks much doesnt change the fact that ppl have been playing it for years and are bound to get bored of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what you are saying is no matter what the suggestion is for an easy mode, even when it won’t interfere with raid development, that you won’t agree with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People in this forum don’t even think they will make it to Wing 10. Heck, I’ll take an easy mode when they are done after Wing 8. > > > > > > > > > > > > Im not saying i dissagree witha story mode or soemthing like that. I dissagree with it giving you the envoy set but that wasnt the point of my post. > > > > > > > > > > This where I would disagree, I think it should award the set, but make it take much longer, this gives the person the incentive to try the normal modes to complete it faster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree. The set is awarded by beating the raids by overcomming them, you shouldnt get the armor for doing a strictly easier version. > > > > > > Eh? Yeah but you can buy Raids and do absolutely nothing to get them. I could bring the credit card out and also have the legendary armor too. Really I’m actually surprised that no one is up in arms about Anet supporting that avenue. > > > > You could, but it defeats the purpose. You'd be deliberately going out of your way in order to *not* play the game. There are always players like that, it can't be helped. And it's not a reason to screw up reward structure and incentives for players who *aren't* like that. That is to say, the players who this content was intended in the first place - those who ended up being raiders. > > Sure but an easy mode could supply the same thing. If it takes the person 7 months to obtain just the first set, and 13 months to obtain the additional sets. There is a natural incentive to want to complete those normal difficulties too, to obtain it faster. > > It’s like pvp legendary armor, sure you can lose every match, but why would you? It takes over 3 times longer to lose your way to that armor set, not to mention the nature time gate of that set as well. It also takes 10 times less effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > > > When you make Cairn, MO or Escort easier, you'll get raids that are easier and more boring than the dungeon story modes. The dungeon story modes took at least several minutes and had some story, Cairn an MO would be over in less than 5 min without any story happening during the "fight". > > > > > > This would be for those struggling with Cairn and MO, not for those who are able to do it in normal mode. > > > > > > > Honestly, if you're struggling with Cairn and MO then either make some effort and learn to play the game, or just don't bother with raids - they aren't intended for you. No offense meant at all. I mean to say, this content is designed to be the most challenging in the game. Lowering its difficulty to enable players who never were its target audience serves no purpose. It's like wanting to be offered a harness and a bungee rope for getting out of bed. It's missing the whole point, the whole purpose. Missing it by a mile. > > Sure but isn’t this a casual MMO? Wasn’t that the design? Wasn’t that the purpose? Casual doesnt necessarily mean easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now