Chaith.8256 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. You're in luh wit Dicoco Lightning Strike got you low low Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Chaith.8256 said: > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > A lot of things can beat a bunker druid. > > > > You literally run one of the hard counters to druid and still complain about it. > > He was saying Bunker druid but you replied talking about lower rated builds with Longbow and GS which you were saying Fresh Air would hard counter.. bunker druid has neither of those. Honestly how do you die as the metabattle Bunker Druid to Fresh Air ele? Seems impossible to consider that a hard counter against that Druid. So few power professions are enough to dispatch a competent Druid who's trying to live, that's the Druid's strength. > > IMO you guys are both so intent on comparing appendages that you're both exaggerating your points > > Shouldn't we consider the fact the OP is using a burst spec to 1v1 a point holder spec? From your vast experience in general PvP, you well know that it's a mistake **but really that's not the entire problem here** The main problem here is that the OP wishes to temporarily disable the mechanic of another class and that isn't right really, me and other eles complained hard in the past to see a reduction in the use of the chill condition which can effectively disable our mechanic and in even in that case it wouldn't be as bad as killing the pets consistently. The devs never wanted for the pets to be killed that easily, **are we forgetting that core pets are balanced with core dmg in mind?** Ofc HoT/PoF specs would one shots core pets...that's why they introduced HoT pets ...and seen how equally tanky are PoF pets, it's safe to believe that my assumption is correct, the devs never wanted for the pets to be killed that easily and therefore they introduced pets to match the powercreep dmg isn't that the whole point? One last thing...do we really want to talk about "bad design"?...Because I don't know if you've seen the burst of scepter weaver, instant 10k upward dmg with no tell thx to triple arcane blast and fire/air dual-skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > One last thing...do we really want to talk about "bad design"?...Because I don't know if you've seen the burst of scepter weaver, instant 10k upward dmg with no tell thx to triple arcane blast and fire/air dual-skill > > Is it just standard for everyone in this thread to exaggerate everything as easily as breathing? :lol: Must debunk misinformation :sweat: Plasma Beam is a 1.25s channel and there's a 1s cooldown between discharging Arcane Blasts, it takes 3 seconds to discharge em all. Get used to using a defensive ability on Plasma Beam at the start of the channel and you'll die to it about as much as you do vs. Quickness Rapid Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > Lightning Strike got you low low > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 i think the longbow is kind of a problem not the pets , with a longbow even a defensive oriented ranger can constantly press you on the whole map but on the other hand its good for killing scourges , i personally like using shortbow but if i see a scourge i might jump on my second longbow ranger just to camp them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGDeadHead.8326 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. It's good because it doesn't suffer from projectile hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > etc. etc. You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbroe.4329 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 @"Chaith.8256" Quite a few of the top Rangers/Druids/etc take the metabattle bunker build and swap out staff for LB in "top tier league" queues, especially in instances where the enemy team has a staff Druid that they know they'll be up against and that the enemy team lacks common +1 threats (Mirage being the most dangerous, thief is manageable if they don't catch you off guard). What this does, most importantly, as a "side node monkey," is that without trading too much 1v1 potential (things like Mirage become unmanageable as a notable matchup sacrifice), it allows you to gain offensive momentum by being able to assault contested nodes and force decaps, most importantly hurting the role and potential of enemy staff Druids, as there are quite a few of them, even at top tier, that just focus far with blinders and are irrelevant in teamfights and poor with their rotations that you can invalidate with just a simple weapon swap. Not that it's actually relevant to the topic at hand, but that seems to have gotten out of hand, especially since in "top tier queues" you can actually count the amount of Druids that exist on your fingers; at least on NA. I could contribute something like "something something staff druid tickles you and has nothing worth dodging so dodge the pet bursts and displace the player with CC to decap/win something something" but I really don't think counterplay is the solution people here are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihm.2315 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 its the longbow even a druid or any ranger can pressure push you back or start bashing you from a mile away its the best ranger weapon by far, pets are absolutely fine its part of the class now longbow is far better than any other ranged weapon also the recent maps are very wide open so you can have them shooting you arrows on you all the time. maybe it should be available only to those that use offensive amulets or something or needs to be changed anyway its a good medicine for the scourge at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > etc. etc. > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > It used to be on a 12 second cooldown. They added 6 seconds to its cooldown which is a HUGE change. Almost a full weapon swap. I don't have any problems with druids. I can fight them on core, soulbeast, or druid on a point and be perfectly fine and even force a neutral point. 240 damage pings is pretty bad. If you have regeneration and another source of passive healing, you'd completely negate the autos. Even against squishy targets, the autos really don't do much at all. The difference is, necro's staff and thief shortbow do most of their damage through the other 4 weapon skills. So, they can afford to have "worse" auto attacks. Staff's only source of damage is the auto, and even then, is still worse than the previously mentioned two. For the record, necro's staff AA is fantastic for building lifeforce. A thief's shortbow AA does a lot of damage due to the bounce. Either way both can hit for upwards of 1-2k consistently, beating out a druid's staff AA. Also, whoop-dee-doo. Staff AA tracks a stealthed target for about a second and does 800 damage. lol. Your range discrimination point is redundant. Thief has access to 1200 range weapon. That's like saying "thief rifle doesn't suffer from range discrimination like ranger which is forced into 900 range with shortbow." If you're new to the game, there used to be air and blood sigils available to choose from. Staff AA used to be able to do 1-2k dps with ancestral grace being on a 12 second cooldown. We've been nerfed pretty heavily in that regard. Honestly, you can act like you know more than me but you really don't. If you insist on arguing these points, why don't you find a druid for me to fight in game or 1v1 me yourself to see how I play. It is more helpful to newer players like yourself to watch more experienced players and try to pick up some of the skills than trying to hash it out on the forums. Or, you can just watch my duels that were streamed on twitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"jihm.2315" said: > its the longbow even a druid or any ranger can pressure push you back or start bashing you from a mile away its the best ranger weapon by far, pets are absolutely fine its part of the class now longbow is far better than any other ranged weapon also the recent maps are very wide open so you can have them shooting you arrows on you all the time. > maybe it should be available only to those that use offensive amulets or something or needs to be changed anyway its a good medicine for the scourge at the moment > Longbow is a well rounded weapon. It's got a decent mix of sustained pressure and defenses. However, it suffers in close range and is countered heavily by projectile denial/reflect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. 2. Kite/LoS 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > > > > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > > > > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > > > > > > > Should be clear by now that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and is biased as hell. > > I've actually provided a lot of substance behind my posts in regards to skill usage, weapon skills, and different matchups. All of which you've failed to do time and time again. If you really believe you know more than me or can play better, 1v1 me. > > So far, almost everyone I've offered to 1v1 has refused... _weird huh?_ Yeah a lot of insightful knowledge like claiming that FA ele _hard counters druid_. Ele fucking giggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > 2. Kite/LoS > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Razor.6392" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > > > > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > > > > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > > > > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > > > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > > > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > > > > > > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > > > > > > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > > > > > > > > > > Should be clear by now that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and is biased as hell. > > > > I've actually provided a lot of substance behind my posts in regards to skill usage, weapon skills, and different matchups. All of which you've failed to do time and time again. If you really believe you know more than me or can play better, 1v1 me. > > > > So far, almost everyone I've offered to 1v1 has refused... _weird huh?_ > > Yeah a lot of insightful knowledge like claiming that FA ele _hard counters druid_. Ele kitten giggle. I literally made an entire post about it. It's not my problem _**you**_ can't play it correctly. The super speed negates our pet and melee weapons. The projectile denial negates our longbow. Signet of Restoration negates our staff damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > > 2. Kite/LoS > > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. > > I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. > > Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. > > I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players At no point in time was my pet focused either. I was actually running diviners amulet and then swapped over to berserker after the time limit ran out. I don't see your point though? I play ranger well, and I frequently 1vX... but what are you trying to say? All classes are relatively low skill. That point is moot. The entire game is advertised around being easy for anyone to pick up and play. Also, how complicated would you like out pet management to be? Would you like rangers to type in a string of code each time we'd like out pet to do something? Managing the pet is already a hell of a lot more complicated than other classes if you think about it. Every other classes' class mechanics can be activated with a single button. _Talk about fire and forget._ Saying that "pets are too easy to control" is like saying that a thief should have to press 5 buttons in order to steal. Pets reflecting a ranger's stats would be absolutely amazing for us (because it would be completely broken). A properly specced ranger will have a pet that does absurd amounts damage as well as being incredibly tanky. In PvP, a damage-oriented ranger's pet will go back to post-HoT-release pet damage. If defensively-oriented, the pet will be impossible to kill and pump out insane amounts of healing. Think about it like this... people complain about smokescale's damage and tankiness when it has: 1500 power 2.2k armor 30% critical chance 150% critical damage Now imagine if it had: 2.5k power 2.8k armor 60% critical chance 200% critical damage Be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > > > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > > > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > > > > > > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > > > > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > > > > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > > > > > > > > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > > > > > > > > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should be clear by now that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and is biased as hell. > > > > > > I've actually provided a lot of substance behind my posts in regards to skill usage, weapon skills, and different matchups. All of which you've failed to do time and time again. If you really believe you know more than me or can play better, 1v1 me. > > > > > > So far, almost everyone I've offered to 1v1 has refused... _weird huh?_ > > > > Yeah a lot of insightful knowledge like claiming that FA ele _hard counters druid_. Ele kitten giggle. > > I literally made an entire post about it. It's not my problem _**you**_ can't play it correctly. > > The super speed negates our pet and melee weapons. The projectile denial negates our longbow. Signet of Restoration negates our staff damage. Yeah the 200 healing from signet negates the 1-1.5k channeled damage. You need 8 abilities casted every 1.25 seconds to negate it. Not even a massive burst combo reaches 8 spell casts, and those don't happen often. The 30 seconds cd 6 and 3 secs duration reflects negate any and ALL projectile damage. I know the average druid is dumb as fuck, but some people can anticipate stuff you know? Like not shooting when the reflect is up, or reading it and switching weapons. The superspeed negates any and ALL pet damage? Also negates the melee weapon attacks? LOL. I got one too, your CA negates all damage that ele does. BOOM! See, I can exaggerate nonsense like a biased scrub too. Except it's not fully incorrect especially in menders builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > > > 2. Kite/LoS > > > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. > > > > I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. > > > > Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. > > > > I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players > > At no point in time was my pet focused either. I was actually running diviners amulet and then swapped over to berserker after the time limit ran out. I don't see your point though? I play ranger well, and I frequently 1vX... but what are you trying to say? > > All classes are relatively low skill. That point is moot. The entire game is advertised around being easy for anyone to pick up and play. Also, how complicated would you like out pet management to be? Would you like rangers to type in a string of code each time we'd like out pet to do something? Managing the pet is already a hell of a lot more complicated than other classes if you think about it. Every other classes' class mechanics can be activated with a single button. _Talk about fire and forget._ Saying that "pets are too easy to control" is like saying that a thief should have to press 5 buttons in order to steal. > > Pets reflecting a ranger's stats would be absolutely amazing for us (because it would be completely broken). A properly specced ranger will have a pet that does absurd amounts damage as well as being incredibly tanky. In PvP, a damage-oriented ranger's pet will go back to post-HoT-release pet damage. If defensively-oriented, the pet will be impossible to kill and pump out insane amounts of healing. > > Think about it like this... people complain about smokescale's damage and tankiness when it has: > 1500 power > 2.2k armor > 30% critical chance > 150% critical damage > > Now imagine if it had: > 2.5k power > 2.8k armor > 60% critical chance > 200% critical damage > > Be careful what you wish for. Current damage would be the damage for glass stats and you would scale down from there. At this time you can go full bunker with that damage. What you are seeing now isn't the low end but the max of what your pet should do. So you'd have to run Zerk to keep ur current damage. That's balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Razor.6392" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > > > > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > > > > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > > > > > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > > > > > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > > > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should be clear by now that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and is biased as hell. > > > > > > > > I've actually provided a lot of substance behind my posts in regards to skill usage, weapon skills, and different matchups. All of which you've failed to do time and time again. If you really believe you know more than me or can play better, 1v1 me. > > > > > > > > So far, almost everyone I've offered to 1v1 has refused... _weird huh?_ > > > > > > Yeah a lot of insightful knowledge like claiming that FA ele _hard counters druid_. Ele kitten giggle. > > > > I literally made an entire post about it. It's not my problem _**you**_ can't play it correctly. > > > > The super speed negates our pet and melee weapons. The projectile denial negates our longbow. Signet of Restoration negates our staff damage. > > Yeah the 200 healing from signet negates the 1-1.5k channeled damage. You need 8 abilities casted every 1.25 seconds to negate it. Not even a massive burst combo reaches 8 spell casts, and those don't happen often. > > The 30 seconds cd 6 and 3 secs duration reflects negate any and ALL projectile damage. I know the average druid is dumb as kitten, but some people can anticipate stuff you know? Like not shooting when the reflect is up, or reading it and switching weapons. > > The superspeed negates any and ALL pet damage? Also negates the melee weapon attacks? LOL. > > I got one too, your CA negates all damage that ele does. BOOM! See, I can exaggerate nonsense like a biased scrub too. Except it's not fully incorrect especially in menders builds. > Staff pings barely hit 750 on average over the course of the cast time. That's basically 3 skill uses not counting regeneration. Realistically, if you're playing fresh air correctly, 3 skill uses in a short period of time is perfectly reasonable. Also, there's no reason why (logically) that an entire healing skill would be outdamaged by a single weak hitting auto attack on a weapon that's focused around support (and it isn't). You're also not taking into account weapon swaps (which you might forget, since eles can't weapon swap). Once an ele pops projectile reflect, there is literally no point in remaining in longbow because 4 out of the 5 skills become completely useless (in the case of swirling winds), or detrimental (due to magnetic aura or magnetic wave). Thus, we swap out of longbow to our other weaponset (generally either staff or s/x) in which the former ALSO has 2 out of the 5 skills negated by projectile denial, and the auto can be negated by signet of restoration... _or_ super speed prevents us from doing sustained damage with our melee set. Since it seems like you've only started playing the game recently, the reason why longbow druids were pushed out of the meta post-HoT was because d/f tempests would make the weapon completely useless in team fights, and hammer + bulwark gyro scrappers would make the weapon completely useless on side nodes. It's a well known fact that pets struggle to hit moving targets. Constant super speed (higher movement speed than swiftness), makes it _impossible_ for a pet to hit you unless it is ranged (countered by projectile denial) or has a skill like smoke assault that tracks. Even in the case of smokescale, the channeled skill does 2.6-3k damage on average and it down for another 20 seconds on meta druid. Also, yes. I don't know if you're familiar with how super speed works, but it literally let's you outrun anything that doesn't have super speed. Thus, if you have a high uptime on super speed, it becomes very difficult for anything melee to actually hit you consistently asides from a leap or teleport. I've provided actual numbers in my responses. _**You**_ are the one exaggerating and provided no proof or evidence in yours. CA is up every 15 seconds. Doing the average healing rotation on CA heals for 6384 health. Over 15 seconds, that's 425 damage per second which is only a 35 health difference from stage 1 on scepter auto attack on air using fresh air meta. Which, also happens to get blown out of the water on any crits. So, to explain it in a way you can understand, if you use scepter air auto on us for 15 seconds, we can pop CA, do the "meta" healing rotation and break completely even, or, if you've critically hit at all (with 63% base critical hit chance or 83% with fury, so it should happen very often), will not heal for the full amount your autos have done. Also, in that time, you can also cast a plethora of other damaging skills while simultaneously maintaining the beam or taking small breaks in its casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > > > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > > > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > > > > 2. Kite/LoS > > > > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. > > > > > > I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. > > > > > > I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players > > > > At no point in time was my pet focused either. I was actually running diviners amulet and then swapped over to berserker after the time limit ran out. I don't see your point though? I play ranger well, and I frequently 1vX... but what are you trying to say? > > > > All classes are relatively low skill. That point is moot. The entire game is advertised around being easy for anyone to pick up and play. Also, how complicated would you like out pet management to be? Would you like rangers to type in a string of code each time we'd like out pet to do something? Managing the pet is already a hell of a lot more complicated than other classes if you think about it. Every other classes' class mechanics can be activated with a single button. _Talk about fire and forget._ Saying that "pets are too easy to control" is like saying that a thief should have to press 5 buttons in order to steal. > > > > Pets reflecting a ranger's stats would be absolutely amazing for us (because it would be completely broken). A properly specced ranger will have a pet that does absurd amounts damage as well as being incredibly tanky. In PvP, a damage-oriented ranger's pet will go back to post-HoT-release pet damage. If defensively-oriented, the pet will be impossible to kill and pump out insane amounts of healing. > > > > Think about it like this... people complain about smokescale's damage and tankiness when it has: > > 1500 power > > 2.2k armor > > 30% critical chance > > 150% critical damage > > > > Now imagine if it had: > > 2.5k power > > 2.8k armor > > 60% critical chance > > 200% critical damage > > > > Be careful what you wish for. > > Current damage would be the damage for glass stats and you would scale down from there. At this time you can go full bunker with that damage. What you are seeing now isn't the low end but the max of what your pet should do. So you'd have to run Zerk to keep ur current damage. > > That's balance. So we'd need full zerker to do 3k on a pet burst every 20 seconds? _Nice._ Using your logic, we'd hit for about 300 every 20 seconds on a bunker build. Lmao... It's a good thing you're not in charge of balance. Smokescale and Bristleback have already received damage nerfs of over 66% on their main damage skills and you want them to be nerfed _**more**_?? Bristleback is already considered borderline usable because of the damage nerfs and smokescale is taken for the smoke field and reliability, not damage. Think a bit before you make such a ridiculous suggestion. You're saying that pets should receive a gigantic damage nerf and rangers would receive **ZERO** compensation as a result? Completely brainless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > > > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > > > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > > > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > > > > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > > > > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > > > > > 2. Kite/LoS > > > > > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. > > > > > > > > I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. > > > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. > > > > > > > > I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players > > > > > > At no point in time was my pet focused either. I was actually running diviners amulet and then swapped over to berserker after the time limit ran out. I don't see your point though? I play ranger well, and I frequently 1vX... but what are you trying to say? > > > > > > All classes are relatively low skill. That point is moot. The entire game is advertised around being easy for anyone to pick up and play. Also, how complicated would you like out pet management to be? Would you like rangers to type in a string of code each time we'd like out pet to do something? Managing the pet is already a hell of a lot more complicated than other classes if you think about it. Every other classes' class mechanics can be activated with a single button. _Talk about fire and forget._ Saying that "pets are too easy to control" is like saying that a thief should have to press 5 buttons in order to steal. > > > > > > Pets reflecting a ranger's stats would be absolutely amazing for us (because it would be completely broken). A properly specced ranger will have a pet that does absurd amounts damage as well as being incredibly tanky. In PvP, a damage-oriented ranger's pet will go back to post-HoT-release pet damage. If defensively-oriented, the pet will be impossible to kill and pump out insane amounts of healing. > > > > > > Think about it like this... people complain about smokescale's damage and tankiness when it has: > > > 1500 power > > > 2.2k armor > > > 30% critical chance > > > 150% critical damage > > > > > > Now imagine if it had: > > > 2.5k power > > > 2.8k armor > > > 60% critical chance > > > 200% critical damage > > > > > > Be careful what you wish for. > > > > Current damage would be the damage for glass stats and you would scale down from there. At this time you can go full bunker with that damage. What you are seeing now isn't the low end but the max of what your pet should do. So you'd have to run Zerk to keep ur current damage. > > > > That's balance. > > So we'd need full zerker to do 3k on a pet burst every 20 seconds? _Nice._ > > Using your logic, we'd hit for about 300 every 20 seconds on a bunker build. Lmao... It's a good thing you're not in charge of balance. > > Smokescale and Bristleback have already received damage nerfs of over 66% on their main damage skills and you want them to be nerfed _**more**_?? Bristleback is already considered borderline usable because of the damage nerfs and smokescale is taken for the smoke field and reliability, not damage. Think a bit before you make such a ridiculous suggestion. You're saying that pets should receive a gigantic damage nerf and rangers would receive **ZERO** compensation as a result? Completely brainless. That pet damage injunction with Zerker damage would be good damage. Wait you thought you'd get more damage? ROFLMAO are you kidding me? Wow No words can describe the hilarity of that. Have a great day man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"huehuehueh.5106" said: > > > > > > > > 1. Pets melt to conditions, if you kill them both they have to wait like 45 secs without any pets > > > > > > > > 2. If you stand on top of a pillar or a no port with no path to location you are immune to pets > > > > > > > > 3. pets mindlessly follow a enemy unless told otherwise, jumping up jump puzzles forces them to go all the way around, by the time they reach you, you can just jump back down and waste their time running back (with the exception of the smokescale, they can port) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can clear condi's off your pet, heal them, and swap to stop them from dying no? > > > > > > > 2. So what are you going to do up there in a match? > > > > > > > 3. You can hotkey the commands to have them not do that. I'm sorry but having to press a few more keys instead mindlessly having pet do all the work is a good thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You can't really reliably cleanse conditions on your pet. In fact, a lot of our condition removal actually puts MORE condis on our pet. > > > > > > 2. Kite/LoS > > > > > > 3. I agree with this. Although, the pet really doesn't have any commands besides attack/recall and beast ability. So, there's not much we _can_ do. > > > > > > > > > > I watched that twitch video you posted. At no point in time was your pet in any imminent danger. The initial fight went the time limit until mandatory amulet switch was implemented. The initial fight you last long enough for multiple +1's if it were a real PvP match & you were actually trying to win the fight...not bunker. > > > > > > > > > > Ranger is a low skill class and those 3 commands can ensure you control your pet w/out having to do much else. > > > > > > > > > > I'd like the pets to reflect the ranger's stats. That's the proper fix moving forward. Leave the skill floor/ceiling on the class b/c we do need low skill entry classes for players > > > > > > > > At no point in time was my pet focused either. I was actually running diviners amulet and then swapped over to berserker after the time limit ran out. I don't see your point though? I play ranger well, and I frequently 1vX... but what are you trying to say? > > > > > > > > All classes are relatively low skill. That point is moot. The entire game is advertised around being easy for anyone to pick up and play. Also, how complicated would you like out pet management to be? Would you like rangers to type in a string of code each time we'd like out pet to do something? Managing the pet is already a hell of a lot more complicated than other classes if you think about it. Every other classes' class mechanics can be activated with a single button. _Talk about fire and forget._ Saying that "pets are too easy to control" is like saying that a thief should have to press 5 buttons in order to steal. > > > > > > > > Pets reflecting a ranger's stats would be absolutely amazing for us (because it would be completely broken). A properly specced ranger will have a pet that does absurd amounts damage as well as being incredibly tanky. In PvP, a damage-oriented ranger's pet will go back to post-HoT-release pet damage. If defensively-oriented, the pet will be impossible to kill and pump out insane amounts of healing. > > > > > > > > Think about it like this... people complain about smokescale's damage and tankiness when it has: > > > > 1500 power > > > > 2.2k armor > > > > 30% critical chance > > > > 150% critical damage > > > > > > > > Now imagine if it had: > > > > 2.5k power > > > > 2.8k armor > > > > 60% critical chance > > > > 200% critical damage > > > > > > > > Be careful what you wish for. > > > > > > Current damage would be the damage for glass stats and you would scale down from there. At this time you can go full bunker with that damage. What you are seeing now isn't the low end but the max of what your pet should do. So you'd have to run Zerk to keep ur current damage. > > > > > > That's balance. > > > > So we'd need full zerker to do 3k on a pet burst every 20 seconds? _Nice._ > > > > Using your logic, we'd hit for about 300 every 20 seconds on a bunker build. Lmao... It's a good thing you're not in charge of balance. > > > > Smokescale and Bristleback have already received damage nerfs of over 66% on their main damage skills and you want them to be nerfed _**more**_?? Bristleback is already considered borderline usable because of the damage nerfs and smokescale is taken for the smoke field and reliability, not damage. Think a bit before you make such a ridiculous suggestion. You're saying that pets should receive a gigantic damage nerf and rangers would receive **ZERO** compensation as a result? Completely brainless. > > That pet damage injunction with Zerker damage would be good damage. Wait you thought you'd get more damage? ROFLMAO are you kidding me? > > Wow > > No words can describe the hilarity of that. > > Have a great day man If you'd use your brain a little bit, you'd make a reasonable suggestion. Logically, if pets were to scale off our stats, they would receive a damage increase if we were to go glass, and a damage decrease if we were to go bunker. NOT remain the same if we go glass, and a decrease across the board everywhere else. There's a reason why you have over 200 posts and only 150 thumbs up. People generally don't agree with what you have to say. The numbers speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I was fighting a druid on close yesterday, both he and his pet were unkillable, we somehow managed to kill the druid 2v1 after what seemed like an eternity, but the pet was still full hp. Yet the druid and his pet still did some pretty decent damage. I don't like playing with AI so I don't really know, but is there a build out there that makes your pet immune to damage and condition damage? Pets can be quite sturdy, but this one wouldn't take any scratch at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Chaith.8256" said: > > > > > > > > > > @shadowpass.4236 said: > > > > > > > > > > I just mentioned how fresh air counters longbow with focus and gs _and_ s/d with super speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neat, learning stuff - non-staff Druids I literally have no idea about because Staff seems like a dumb thing for a Druid to not take. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Diccoco plays s/f really well and I've consistently lost to him on that build back when he still played, simply because fresh air completely hard counters our pet and weapons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're in luh wit Dicoco > > > > > > > > > Lightning Strike got you low low > > > > > > > > > Fresh air, you're like 'oh no' (oh no no please no) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah its weird. I don't really think any druid likes playing staff. Without air/blood sigils, the auto attack literally hits for next to nothing. The movement skill is on a ridiculously long cooldown. The water field is a line rather than a circle. The vines are hard-to-hit line skill shot that struggles to hit a moving target at max range. The wisp is also almost entirely useless asides from generating additional astral force. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a ranger main, I would happily take double axes over staff. A/a has higher ranged pressure, soft cc, weakness, o.k. autos, hard cc, and projectile denial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing staff is good for is generating astral force and some additional AoE healing. Other than that, its a pretty crappy weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/d beats staff out because of the additional evades you receive > > > > > > > > Gs beats staff out because of the cc, evades, movement, and burst damage > > > > > > > > Longbow beats staff out because of the cc, stealth, range, and burst > > > > > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You want short CD long range mobility on support spec? Seriously? The CD on it is already way too short for what it does and how much impact it has on match outcome (especially on foefire where you can camp edge of mid and babysit home at the same time -> can't decap that unless druid is dumb). Try to roam vs team with smart druid - you will ask to delete staff all together after that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually AA on staff hurts like hell for a support weapon, especially vs squishy targets. I mean look at necro staff AA or thief sb. Those are purely support weapons and their AA is non-existent basically. Also staff AA doesn't get reflected and tracks stealthed targets. It also doesn't suffer from range discrimination like thief which is forced into 900 range outside of rifle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you really don't understand what staff is there for. From what i reading you wish staff would deal dps of dps weapon set and have shorter CDs on utilities. For real now? Is this a joke? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Should be clear by now that he doesn't know what he's talking about, and is biased as hell. > > > > > > > > > > I've actually provided a lot of substance behind my posts in regards to skill usage, weapon skills, and different matchups. All of which you've failed to do time and time again. If you really believe you know more than me or can play better, 1v1 me. > > > > > > > > > > So far, almost everyone I've offered to 1v1 has refused... _weird huh?_ > > > > > > > > Yeah a lot of insightful knowledge like claiming that FA ele _hard counters druid_. Ele kitten giggle. > > > > > > I literally made an entire post about it. It's not my problem _**you**_ can't play it correctly. > > > > > > The super speed negates our pet and melee weapons. The projectile denial negates our longbow. Signet of Restoration negates our staff damage. > > > > Yeah the 200 healing from signet negates the 1-1.5k channeled damage. You need 8 abilities casted every 1.25 seconds to negate it. Not even a massive burst combo reaches 8 spell casts, and those don't happen often. > > > > The 30 seconds cd 6 and 3 secs duration reflects negate any and ALL projectile damage. I know the average druid is dumb as kitten, but some people can anticipate stuff you know? Like not shooting when the reflect is up, or reading it and switching weapons. > > > > The superspeed negates any and ALL pet damage? Also negates the melee weapon attacks? LOL. > > > > I got one too, your CA negates all damage that ele does. BOOM! See, I can exaggerate nonsense like a biased scrub too. Except it's not fully incorrect especially in menders builds. > > > > Staff pings barely hit 750 on average over the course of the cast time. That's basically 3 skill uses not counting regeneration. Realistically, if you're playing fresh air correctly, 3 skill uses in a short period of time is perfectly reasonable. Also, there's no reason why (logically) that an entire healing skill would be outdamaged by a single weak hitting auto attack on a weapon that's focused around support (and it isn't). > > You're also not taking into account weapon swaps (which you might forget, since eles can't weapon swap). Once an ele pops projectile reflect, there is literally no point in remaining in longbow because 4 out of the 5 skills become completely useless (in the case of swirling winds), or detrimental (due to magnetic aura or magnetic wave). Thus, we swap out of longbow to our other weaponset (generally either staff or s/x) in which the former ALSO has 2 out of the 5 skills negated by projectile denial, and the auto can be negated by signet of restoration... _or_ super speed prevents us from doing sustained damage with our melee set. Since it seems like you've only started playing the game recently, the reason why longbow druids were pushed out of the meta post-HoT was because d/f tempests would make the weapon completely useless in team fights, and hammer + bulwark gyro scrappers would make the weapon completely useless on side nodes. > > It's a well known fact that pets struggle to hit moving targets. Constant super speed (higher movement speed than swiftness), makes it _impossible_ for a pet to hit you unless it is ranged (countered by projectile denial) or has a skill like smoke assault that tracks. Even in the case of smokescale, the channeled skill does 2.6-3k damage on average and it down for another 20 seconds on meta druid. Also, yes. I don't know if you're familiar with how super speed works, but it literally let's you outrun anything that doesn't have super speed. Thus, if you have a high uptime on super speed, it becomes very difficult for anything melee to actually hit you consistently asides from a leap or teleport. > > I've provided actual numbers in my responses. _**You**_ are the one exaggerating and provided no proof or evidence in yours. CA is up every 15 seconds. Doing the average healing rotation on CA heals for 6384 health. Over 15 seconds, that's 425 damage per second which is only a 35 health difference from stage 1 on scepter auto attack on air using fresh air meta. Which, also happens to get blown out of the water on any crits. So, to explain it in a way you can understand, if you use scepter air auto on us for 15 seconds, we can pop CA, do the "meta" healing rotation and break completely even, or, if you've critically hit at all (with 63% base critical hit chance or 83% with fury, so it should happen very often), will not heal for the full amount your autos have done. Also, in that time, you can also cast a plethora of other damaging skills while simultaneously maintaining the beam or taking small breaks in its casting. I stopped reading at 750 staff autos. Not even on bunker druid it hits for that little. Superspeed isn't permanent and the reflects aren't permanent. I know it's funny to exaggerate and mass hyperbole on everything you do to defend your low IQ class, but it's time to wake up from your delusions. B I A S E D that your class can be played by literal downs people at your same level. I'm done with you lmfao. Keep posting, idc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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