Sorry but it's too late.

[Jagdtiger.2517]

I don't really even need to say anything other than the title, there are like 3 actual players left in NA last time I played, everything the PvP devs are doing now is in vain, they had a chance with the last balance patch to fix class balance but it was an utter failure, therefore the consequence is that the game is dead. I literally played kalla rev at the beginning of the season and sat in top 100 because it's ridiculous how few players there actually are that are good. Honestly my theory is that the devs are purposely trying to destroy PvP so they can completely remove it from the game and focus on pvesports. I only post on the forum now, because it's more fun than the actual game.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Forum PvP can be fun. I'm not ready to declare the game dead just yet.

[Lyger.5429]

They've said it time & time again the pvp devs are not in charge of balance. The AMA that Ben and the team are running is very helpful we haven't had this much openness about pvp in a long time. Give them a chance and we might see more of it in the future.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

 

There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

[Duzik.9137]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

>

> There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

 

Toxic people are very easy to explain . Imagine your self in the workplace. And you are forcefully put with 4 other random ppl to do a certain task in certain time, and let's say 2 out of 5 are underperforming of which 1 is completely worthless, what it means is rest 3 have to perform for 4. Now imagine of those 3 ppl 2 do only what they imagine is enough on they part. So you are left alone to perform for 2 and a half. If it happens once, it's whatever, but if it happens on regular bases and you get shouted on by boss, that you are underperforming, you start to be a cock to ppl who are in your team and are underperforming. And can you blame the person for that? And obv those who underperform come up with some retarded excuse like, ahh its just a job, chill, we get paid hourly anyway, and so on.

 

So now i hope this explains "toxicity" of ppl , when in reality its you who is in blame for them to be toxic

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Duzik.9137" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> >

> > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

>

> Toxic people are very easy to explain . Imagine your self in the workplace. And you are forcefully put with 4 other random ppl to do a certain task in certain time, and let's say 2 out of 5 are underperforming of which 1 is completely worthless, what it means is rest 3 have to perform for 4. Now imagine of those 3 ppl 2 do only what they imagine is enough on they part. So you are left alone to perform for 2 and a half. If it happens once, it's whatever, but if it happens on regular bases and you get shouted on by boss, that you are underperforming, you start to be a kitten to ppl who are in your team and are underperforming. And can you blame the person for that? And obv those who underperform come up with some kitten excuse like, ahh its just a job, chill, we get paid hourly anyway, and so on.

>

> So now i hope this explains "toxicity" of ppl , when in reality its you who is in blame for them to be toxic

Your story is hardly applicable here for various reasons but thanks for explaining :D

 

I would be especially interested who your 'boss' is in a GW2 spvp scenario which seems to a big driver of frustration here

 

Also, if I want to stick with your story: OP and others are being offered new colleagues, better wages and work environment, yet he declines as the 'company is already ruined'

[Swagg.9236]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

>

> There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

 

A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

 

And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

[saerni.2584]

“Game is dead” -

 

It’s nearing the holidays, end of year and end of semester. Yes, fewer people will be playing this time of year. And maybe that has more to do with them than the state of balance in game.

 

Further, expecting everything to be balanced in one try after a major release is unreasonable. Things had been fairly balanced right before PoF added nine elite specs. Even after some PoF stuff was considered overpowered/bugged many people expected them to balance and fix bugs at the same time. Bug fixes of course need to come first before evaluating the power of those traits and abilities vs everything else.

 

We are getting an early mini balance patch to address some issues. Anet is likely not going to go far enough in some people’s minds. But that is the nature of Anet wanted to gather data rather than base balance decisions on their own, limited, subjective experience. Metrics of player data, builds used and so forth, can identify potential problem skills much better. Faster balance is possible if they balance based on their own personal experience, but that just leads to “Dev plays X so it got buffed.”

 

People bandwagon to classes they get told are OP. And, for example, Scourge is powerful. But it isn’t OP as much as over represented where everyone thinks stacking scourge is an easy win. Smaller changes to Scourge will be better because lots of people play that and Anet doesn’t want to remove a popular spec from viability. It’s a delicate balance that anyone would err on the side of caution in adjusting too much at any given point.

 

Think of balance like this. Anet thinks a class is too popular. It worries complaints may have some validity. A list of changes is proposed that target some outlier builds. There is a mix of buffs to competing must take traits and reductions in effectiveness for traits that push damage or survival up too high in retrospect. A decision is made which changes are able to solve the problem with the least impact. Some of these changes make it to release. The evaluation process restarts.

[Duzik.9137]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Duzik.9137" said:

> > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> > >

> > > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

> >

> > Toxic people are very easy to explain . Imagine your self in the workplace. And you are forcefully put with 4 other random ppl to do a certain task in certain time, and let's say 2 out of 5 are underperforming of which 1 is completely worthless, what it means is rest 3 have to perform for 4. Now imagine of those 3 ppl 2 do only what they imagine is enough on they part. So you are left alone to perform for 2 and a half. If it happens once, it's whatever, but if it happens on regular bases and you get shouted on by boss, that you are underperforming, you start to be a kitten to ppl who are in your team and are underperforming. And can you blame the person for that? And obv those who underperform come up with some kitten excuse like, ahh its just a job, chill, we get paid hourly anyway, and so on.

> >

> > So now i hope this explains "toxicity" of ppl , when in reality its you who is in blame for them to be toxic

> Your story is hardly applicable here for various reasons but thanks for explaining :D

>

> I would be especially interested who your 'boss' is in a GW2 spvp scenario which seems to a big driver of frustration here

>

> Also, if I want to stick with your story: OP and others are being offered new colleagues, better wages and work environment, yet he declines as the 'company is already ruined'

 

"boss" would be ranking system. And offers won't change the fact that you will have to deal with same random morons. Unless they make things actually complicated, but then casual scrubs will get dunked on in 1v2 and that will not be fun for them, so that for sure not going to happen

[Duzik.9137]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> >

> > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

>

> A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

>

> And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

 

Happened to me with other WoW to me, they kept ruining every fun thing in ranked arena and at one point I just quit. And the fact is, I will never ever consider that game again, cause the fact that they are capable of such negligence turns off all of the desires.

[Aeolus.3615]

It is to late and it is a awfull solution... wont change anythign...

[ArthurDent.9538]

I feel like Ben and crew do alright. It is the balance team that makes me want to tear my hair out every time they post anything.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> >

> > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

>

> A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

>

> And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

It is toxic when the PVP team are trying to listen to the community and discuss potential changes (we have a lot of CONCRETE things coming up on Tuesday, remember), yet there are people out there basically telling them to stop this and just forfeit the development. It's beyond ridiculous, and yes, it is toxic.

 

'No communication = bad

No changes = bad

Communication = bad

Changes = bad, don't even try

'Pvp iz ded''

 

That's toxicity (quickly becoming my most used word here)

 

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> It is to late and it is a awfull solution... wont change anythign...

What solution are you talking about here btw? Because if you are talking about the balance patch, we barely know ANYTHING about it, yet you are already judging (again, toxicity, kneejerking days before the update).

If it's something else, you should let us know.

[vorpal.1497]

> @"Lyger.5429" said:

> They've said it time & time again the pvp devs are not in charge of balance. The AMA that Ben and the team are running is very helpful we haven't had this much openness about pvp in a long time. Give them a chance and we might see more of it in the future.

 

The "pvp team isn't the balance team" mantra is a statement of a (massive) problem, not a reason to go "oh ok, let's forgive all the muckups then". Why should we give them a chance? What is their actual workload? Tweaking matchmaking and leaderboards perhaps... because what a success that has been.

 

 

[Morwath.9817]

Hatters gonna wear hats.

[Razor.6392]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> > >

> > > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

> >

> > A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

> >

> > And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

> It is toxic when the PVP team are trying to listen to the community and discuss potential changes (we have a lot of CONCRETE things coming up on Tuesday, remember), yet there are people out there basically telling them to stop this and just forfeit the development. It's beyond ridiculous, and yes, it is toxic.

>

> 'No communication = bad

> No changes = bad

> Communication = bad

> Changes = bad, don't even try

> 'Pvp iz ded''

>

> That's toxicity (quickly becoming my most used word here)

>

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > It is to late and it is a awfull solution... wont change anythign...

> What solution are you talking about here btw? Because if you are talking about the balance patch, we barely know ANYTHING about it, yet you are already judging (again, toxicity, kneejerking days before the update).

> If it's something else, you should let us know.

 

Buddy, how long have you been playing gw2? It's like you think these problems are recent lmao. Just take the L.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> It's like you think these problems are recent lmao.

No, I don't think so.

 

Point is, it's not surprising that Anet is avoiding engaging on forums when they are greeted by extremely pointless posts like the OP.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > It's like you think these problems are recent lmao.

> No, I don't think so.

>

> Point is, it's not surprising that Anet is avoiding engaging on forums when they are greeted by extremely pointless posts like the OP.

 

Ooo, they would have to be masochists to reply to such pointless threads.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> > >

> > > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

> >

> > A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

> >

> > And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

> It is toxic when the PVP team are trying to listen to the community and discuss potential changes (we have a lot of CONCRETE things coming up on Tuesday, remember), yet there are people out there basically telling them to stop this and just forfeit the development. It's beyond ridiculous, and yes, it is toxic.

>

> 'No communication = bad

> No changes = bad

> Communication = bad

> Changes = bad, don't even try

> 'Pvp iz ded''

>

> That's toxicity (quickly becoming my most used word here)

>

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > It is to late and it is a awfull solution... wont change anythign...

> What solution are you talking about here btw? Because if you are talking about the balance patch, we barely know ANYTHING about it, yet you are already judging (again, toxicity, kneejerking days before the update).

> If it's something else, you should let us know.

 

But take the toxicity of the player away, what exactly has the PvP team and balance team done as a whole to keep players in this game mode?

 

I mean take all the bullshit away, the drama, the toxicity of the player base towards the teams , etc - what have they actually done in response to the community as a whole?

 

If you're suggesting or even stating that toxicity has held them back in doing what they need to do to keep this game mode relevant , their actions speak louder than any toxic player on the forums and they most likely just immediately dis-regard any and all toxic posts to begin with as it's not constructive for them.

 

The combat system in this game has saved them over and over and is one of the reasons why people even still play this game at this point (also PvE raids has saved them as well) , it is one of the smoothest in any mmo I've played - but now that they decided to take the servers to the east coast *without telling anybody* - the lag affects many players on many levels.

 

I think the discussions they're having are knowing they have an ailing player base and are desperate at this point. Hopefully, this can bring about a population increase back into the game mode.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > > What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

> > > >

> > > > There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

> > >

> > > A poorly designed and worse managed game gets a lot of criticism from people who, at one point, saw potential in the project? Also, when did criticism and concern become toxic? Your comment is on the same level of Gaile Gray's "Don't complain except in the way we want you to complain" thread. It's just censorship for a game that doesn't deserve any praise.

> > >

> > > And finally, anet's communication attempts have never, *ever* done anything of value or merit for GW2. There are only so many broken promises that anyone *should* (not could) tolerate before condemnation.

> > It is toxic when the PVP team are trying to listen to the community and discuss potential changes (we have a lot of CONCRETE things coming up on Tuesday, remember), yet there are people out there basically telling them to stop this and just forfeit the development. It's beyond ridiculous, and yes, it is toxic.

> >

> > 'No communication = bad

> > No changes = bad

> > Communication = bad

> > Changes = bad, don't even try

> > 'Pvp iz ded''

> >

> > That's toxicity (quickly becoming my most used word here)

> >

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > It is to late and it is a awfull solution... wont change anythign...

> > What solution are you talking about here btw? Because if you are talking about the balance patch, we barely know ANYTHING about it, yet you are already judging (again, toxicity, kneejerking days before the update).

> > If it's something else, you should let us know.

>

> But take the toxicity of the player away, what exactly has the PvP team and balance team done as a whole to keep players in this game mode?

> I mean take all the kitten away, the drama, the toxicity of the player base towards the teams , etc - what have they actually done in response to the community as a whole?

Personally, I really feel that they are trying to address condi wars at the moment. Basically the whole pvp community agreed that the current condi meta is simply overkill.

> If you're suggesting or even stating that toxicity has held them back in doing what they need to do to keep this game mode relevant , their actions speak louder than any toxic player on the forums and they most likely just immediately dis-regard any and all toxic posts to begin with as it's not constructive for them.

Obviously I'm not saying toxicity what caused the current state of PvP, it might be the reason they stopped communicating though (it's very different obviously).

> The combat system in this game has saved them over and over and is one of the reasons why people even still play this game at this point (also PvE raids has saved them as well) , it is one of the smoothest in any mmo I've played - but now that they decided to take the servers to the east coast *without telling anybody* - the lag affects many players on many levels.

I understand that moving the servers is a huge problem for many players, but that's a different issue and it's not connected to the PvP team.

> I think the discussions they're having are knowing they have an ailing player base and are desperate at this point. Hopefully, this can bring about a population increase back into the game mode.

That's most likely true. But at least they are trying now.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> What's killing PvP is the toxic and negative people whining on the forums 24/7.

>

> There is progression regarding communication (see AMA) and balance (see 12.12 update), so why can't you just stop posting here when you are not even playing the game?

 

Progression?

 

Drawing a veil over something is not progression. People who complain are most likely smart enough to see this too.

 

(as for these AMA, I'm very shady on them anyway.... Take courtyard for example, myself and quite a large amount of people I know enjoyed them, only ones to complain were the small minority here on the forums and because of those minority complainers, everyone had to miss out on Deathmatch.... Does removing an entirely new game mode based off 6 people flooding threads with their feelings sound like progression to you? it doesn't to me.)

[Ioras Dagnir.3927]

OPs thread is like dealing with a spoiled toddler is swear haha

 

"Pvp is dying." "Anet fix pvp ffs" "kitten this game devs don't care!"

~

anet comes along to communicate with us "ok whats your problem? how and where can we improve and help make a better experience?"

~

"no. dont want. going home."

 

 

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Ioras Dagnir.3927" said:

> OPs thread is like dealing with a spoiled toddler is swear haha

>

> "Pvp is dying." "Anet fix pvp kitten" "kitten this game devs don't care!"

> ~

> anet comes along to communicate with us "ok whats your problem? how and where can we improve and help make a better experience?"

> ~

> "no. dont want. going home."

>

>

 

[it reminds Quaggan certain episode of South Park...](

"It reminds Quaggan certain episode of South Park...")

[Razor.6392]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > It's like you think these problems are recent lmao.

> No, I don't think so.

>

> Point is, it's not surprising that Anet is avoiding engaging on forums when they are greeted by extremely pointless posts like the OP.

 

People have been asking nicely for years, and got ignored every single time.

[Chaith.8256]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> I feel like Ben and crew do alright. It is the balance team that makes me want to tear my hair out every time they post anything.

 

Is that fair though? My only criticism is the mutilate defenses trait and name change to expose defenses which uses extra resources for localization and does not impact the game positively, (or at all?)

 

Other than that, all the content from PoF balance patch and quarterly balance patch has been top notch and all good changes for PvP. I wish they could crank out 300% more changes in the last two patches, not facepalm when they reveal.