How To Play Against Thieves?

[Lethion.8745]

I am asking this in Thief section because I want to hear answers of thief players. How can I beat you, guys? I spent a lot of time in sPvP but I stıll couldn't figure out what should I do against thieves. I play mainly mesmer and necro(sometimes elementalist) and most of the time, I just avoid fighthing against thieves. They are too quick and it's seems impossible to catch up. They just go in, deal damage and run away or hide behind obstacles. Also my clones can't catch too when I shatter which means I lose half of my dmg. Sometimes I can counter play with stunbreak+invul combos but if thief is condi, it doesn't help it so much. I can just barely beat them with scourge thanks to instant, area fear but you know... Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge. Anyway, I would be really thankfull if u don't mind to give me some tips^^

[Vitali.5039]

Post your builds and we'll teach you how to screw us.

[MUDse.7623]

so its only about how to beat a thief in sPvP or in genral therfor also WvW / guildhall / 1on1 arena ?

what kind of thief build you need help against and what build do you run?

 

i play mostly in WvW and currently mostly Deadeye and for a mesmer or necro or ele or pretty much any class to kill me, i need to make a major mistake. if they are glassy i can onehit them with backstab, if not they either dont deal damage themselves or play condi and i dont care about condis cause of shadows embrace.

 

if you answer the 2 questions maybe someone can help you. but mind that thieves are masters of escape. so we can help you how to 'survive' against a thief but if the thief doesnt want to die and that is his only goal from beginning, there is no chance you will kill him. to kill a thief you have to bait him.

 

[Theandil.6045]

Depends what Thief is against you... If High Burst or Mobility/Condi Cleanase.

And which Weapon set-up he is using.

 

+ you are mesmer/necro, 99% mesmer moves are High predictable, due to every mesmer play same, same goes to necro. When you learn how this both char works, is easy to counter play you.

[ZhouX.8742]

Ask Zeromis, he destroys top thieves in pvp with power mirage

[Lethion.8745]

I use a lot different builds but we can consider most generic ones which I use often.

Mesmer: [Mirage](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra3fnELDVoh1qBmpBMMjlXDrsC0bCOoBgcyzx//VATgA-jJRHABIVGw89HE4kAAwTAAA "Mirage") [Chrono](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7encfCFqh1qBmpBEgilnjCdCynD4sACgDreQP0FF-jJRHQBA4JAcvyAH8iAYu9HAA "Chrono")

 

Necro: [scourge](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6koXozGsrXwpXgtXs0NY690haSl6DMCOUTPgBQAA-jJRHQBmZ/BAcKAuXZgA+EAAA "Scourge") [Reaper](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHbhG2JJNQLNYpNgPNA9mYpXwgGTFgAQ8TsKeFneCDhlAA-jphIQBgsMwxOIAsY/BAcEAE4DAwfnAAA "Reaper")

 

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> so its only about how to beat a thief in sPvP or in genral therfor also WvW / guildhall / 1on1 arena ?

> what kind of thief build you need help against and what build do you run?

>

> i play mostly in WvW and currently mostly Deadeye and for a mesmer or necro or ele or pretty much any class to kill me, i need to make a major mistake. if they are glassy i can onehit them with backstab, if not they either dont deal damage themselves or play condi and i dont care about condis cause of shadows embrace.

>

> if you answer the 2 questions maybe someone can help you. but mind that thieves are masters of escape. so we can help you how to 'survive' against a thief but if the thief doesnt want to die and that is his only goal from beginning, there is no chance you will kill him. to kill a thief you have to bait him.

>

 

Only sPvP. I rarely go for WvW and never others.

Edit: Actually Deadeyes are the easiest one for me cuz I don't like glass canon builds and I always have a defense skill to survive burst of deadeye. Also Deadeye burst is predictable in sPvP since you can easly keep your eye on Deadeye's Mark and incoming bullets(also sound effects)

 

> @"Theandil.6045" said:

> Depends what Thief is against you... If High Burst or Mobility/Condi Cleanase.

> And which Weapon set-up he is using.

>

> + you are mesmer/necro, 99% mesmer moves are High predictable, due to every mesmer play same, same goes to necro. When you learn how this both char works, is easy to counter play you.

 

I don't know all kind of builds thief have. But condi and the one with teleports in every second are the most problematic ones.

 

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> Ask Zeromis, he destroys top thieves in pvp with power mirage

 

Where can I find him :D

[Vitali.5039]

(not talking about change utilities or traits)

 

> @"Lethion.8745" said:

> [Mirage](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra3fnELDVoh1qBmpBMMjlXDrsC0bCOoBgcyzx//VATgA-jJRHABIVGw89HE4kAAwTAAA "Mirage")

 

Use your blinds to load the thief with Confusion while negating their damage and endurance regen (if dagger's 2° AA miss), reset fights with The Prestige + False Oasis and chase it with your leaps when it want to flee.

 

>[Chrono](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7encfCFqh1qBmpBEgilnjCdCynD4sACgDreQP0FF-jJRHQBA4JAcvyAH8iAYu9HAA "Chrono")

 

Force their double Shadowstep and then make use of Gravity Well + Shatter skills to burst it down. Follow it with Blink while throwing Tides of Time if it disengage, then channel your Confusing Images.

 

> [scourge](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6koXozGsrXwpXgtXs0NY690haSl6DMCOUTPgBQAA-jJRHQBmZ/BAcKAuXZgA+EAAA "Scourge")

 

Use Trail of Anguish before trying to heal to prevent interrupts and seek teammate's help: you can't burst thieves with this build.

 

> [Reaper](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHbhG2JJNQLNYpNgPNA9mYpXwgGTFgAQ8TsKeFneCDhlAA-jphIQBgsMwxOIAsY/BAcEAE4DAwfnAAA "Reaper")

 

Your reaper build require targets to stand into your ground circles as it don't have any damage proc or instant skills and you don't have defensive stats on amulet/rune.

Rune of Vampirism could help with your damage/sustain but it will not be enough to prevent resets from thieves or survive enough to cicle another round of CDs.

I suggest you to run with GS + Axe/WH to have more multi hitting skills (to deny blind value), gain a pull, a blind/corruption field and better burst.

Life Siphon isn't reliable without Quickness (rune of the Chronomancer) and the Immobilize comes with a long CD.

 

If I were fighting thieves with that build: camp Dagger/WH all the time to lower the change of getting interrupted, Dark Path only vs 0 endurance (Unhindered Combatant) thieves followed by Well of Suffering and Wail of Doom, then swapping to Axe/WH, but only if the Thief were running out of initiative while disengaging (90% shadowstep away). Shroud to prevent the burst after the opening, to gain stability and CC the thief before Heal: be careful with stolen fear if you want to "kite".

 

[Cynz.9437]

Generally i would say try to play thief yourself. You can do it in unranked just to get the feel of the class and see what spells do. Also go to dueling servers and ask thieves to duel you, try to learn from your mistakes and ask them what they used.

The thieves you describe are probably d/d condi (do they jump around like broken helicopter applying condis?) and s/d (which either can be power or condi).

Problem is, i would need to write huge wall of text if i wanted to describe how to fight each build on each mes build. Try to watch frosty or misha from EU (twitch).

On bright side mirage is really strong atm and you shouldn't have much issues killing most thieves atm, on downside really good thief will always beat you in 1v1 situation but they are rare as well as 1v1 situations in real pvp match.

 

Since by the looks of it you are playing power/condi build, there are 2 things you need to look at.

1. steal - no matter what build thief runs, successful steal grants plasma. It has long cast time but it gives thief every single boon in game (including resistance and protection) for short time. If they run improv, they have double plasma. 99% of thieves in pvp also run trickery, making steal more powerful (either condi application or interrupt on steal). Which leads to point: if thief misses steal, he will be at huge disadvantage during the fight so chances are they will either run away or will hard times to keep up the fight. If you dodge or blind steal, you already won half of the fight basically. It has 20 sec CD. This is also one of the instances where playing thief would help you to get feel for the timer so you can predict when next steal in coming. Yes it is instant, yes, it is a teleport but just like mesmer gank it is also quite predictable.

 

2. signet of agility and condi cleanses. I would dare to say that pretty much everyone runs the first one. It gives thief extra endurance on use and cleanses few condis. It has relative clear animation so look it up. You see thief using it, you know they have just gained 2 dodges but also have one condi cleanse less for a while (30 sec). Here is fun part: if thief is using UC (look it up) you can try to stack cripple/chill/immob (especially immob) on them, this will force them to dodge. However if thief with UC dodges, they can't gain endurance for 4 seconds regardless the source. So try to make them waste their dodges + signet while not wasting your big CDs. If they have nothing left, you can bomb them to death.

 

This is one very very very evil suggestion but i admit using it vs other thieves as well: there are places in pvp maps which cause no valid path bug. E.g. mine cart in Foefire or sykhammer pillar. Now on example of pillar: you can lure thief on top of the pillar and drop your burst on them. They can't really port away and your clones have nearly no running distance. On things like mine cart, the thief can't even use steal or shadowstep to break stun due to terrain bug. Use it with caution tho, as you yourself can't use ports there either.

 

Just few tipps which is obviously by far not enough but only playing and dueling will get you real experience you need to fight thieves. If you have any specific question, as i said you can ask players in game or here.

Lastly, check metabattle: it lists some commonly used builds in all game modes and has short guide to them. You can read up on thief builds there and what spells they commonly use.

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Lethion.8745" said:

> I am asking this in Thief section because I want to hear answers of thief players. How can I beat you, guys? I spent a lot of time in sPvP but I stıll couldn't figure out what should I do against thieves. I play mainly mesmer and necro(sometimes elementalist) and most of the time, I just avoid fighthing against thieves. They are too quick and it's seems impossible to catch up. They just go in, deal damage and run away or hide behind obstacles. Also my clones can't catch too when I shatter which means I lose half of my dmg. Sometimes I can counter play with stunbreak+invul combos but if thief is condi, it doesn't help it so much. I can just barely beat them with scourge thanks to instant, area fear but you know... Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge. Anyway, I would be really thankfull if u don't mind to give me some tips^^

 

'Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge'

 

So you're complaining about Thief being unkillable yet complaining Necromancer being Op?

 

You can't play both sides; you can't play the victim

 

Chose

 

* Either thief are hard to beat

* Either thief are easy to beat

 

 

[Lethion.8745]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > I am asking this in Thief section because I want to hear answers of thief players. How can I beat you, guys? I spent a lot of time in sPvP but I stıll couldn't figure out what should I do against thieves. I play mainly mesmer and necro(sometimes elementalist) and most of the time, I just avoid fighthing against thieves. They are too quick and it's seems impossible to catch up. They just go in, deal damage and run away or hide behind obstacles. Also my clones can't catch too when I shatter which means I lose half of my dmg. Sometimes I can counter play with stunbreak+invul combos but if thief is condi, it doesn't help it so much. I can just barely beat them with scourge thanks to instant, area fear but you know... Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge. Anyway, I would be really thankfull if u don't mind to give me some tips^^

>

> 'Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge'

>

> So you're complaining about Thief being unkillable yet complaining Necromancer being Op?

>

> You can't play both sides; you can't play the victim

>

> Chose

>

> * Either thief are hard to beat

> * Either thief are easy to beat

>

>

 

None of them. I'm just saying I don't know how to play against thief, duh.

 

@"Vitali.5039" Thanks for tips. I'm using greatsword with Reaper build. I tought I had edited it. ._.

 

 

@"Cynz.9437" Thanks a lot. That was very illuminating! I was aware of that bug because of Blink and Sand Swell but never tought that I can use it for my benefit lol. That's really evil. Also I tried to play thief a bit but I suck at assasin-like classes in every game :(

 

I will try those and inform you if it works.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > > I am asking this in Thief section because I want to hear answers of thief players. How can I beat you, guys? I spent a lot of time in sPvP but I stıll couldn't figure out what should I do against thieves. I play mainly mesmer and necro(sometimes elementalist) and most of the time, I just avoid fighthing against thieves. They are too quick and it's seems impossible to catch up. They just go in, deal damage and run away or hide behind obstacles. Also my clones can't catch too when I shatter which means I lose half of my dmg. Sometimes I can counter play with stunbreak+invul combos but if thief is condi, it doesn't help it so much. I can just barely beat them with scourge thanks to instant, area fear but you know... Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge. Anyway, I would be really thankfull if u don't mind to give me some tips^^

> >

> > 'Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge'

> >

> > So you're complaining about Thief being unkillable yet complaining Necromancer being Op?

> >

> > You can't play both sides; you can't play the victim

> >

> > Chose

> >

> > * Either thief are hard to beat

> > * Either thief are easy to beat

> >

> >

>

> None of them. I'm just saying I don't know how to play against thief, duh.

>

> @"Vitali.5039" Thanks for tips. I'm using greatsword with Reaper build. I tought I had edited it. ._.

>

>

> @"Cynz.9437" Thanks a lot. That was very illuminating! I was aware of that bug because of Blink and Sand Swell but never tought that I can use it for my benefit lol. That's really evil. Also I tried to play thief a bit but I suck at assasin-like classes in every game :(

>

> I will try those and inform you if it works.

 

The point is not to be amazing thief, the point is to get feel for their mechanics so next time you face one, you know what they are and when they are at their weakest.

GL :)

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

A thief's greatest weakness is pacing, and AoE. A lot of thieves first thought, is to blow through their initiative as fast as possible. Which will suddenly reduce their damage to nothing. Secondly, a lot of thieves in sPvP and WvW dumbly follow meta builds and don't take anything that'd be more useful on the utilities. Read up on the builds, and just take advantage of the fact that these builds do not give the thief a much protection or utility at all.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > > @"Lethion.8745" said:

> > > > I am asking this in Thief section because I want to hear answers of thief players. How can I beat you, guys? I spent a lot of time in sPvP but I stıll couldn't figure out what should I do against thieves. I play mainly mesmer and necro(sometimes elementalist) and most of the time, I just avoid fighthing against thieves. They are too quick and it's seems impossible to catch up. They just go in, deal damage and run away or hide behind obstacles. Also my clones can't catch too when I shatter which means I lose half of my dmg. Sometimes I can counter play with stunbreak+invul combos but if thief is condi, it doesn't help it so much. I can just barely beat them with scourge thanks to instant, area fear but you know... Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge. Anyway, I would be really thankfull if u don't mind to give me some tips^^

> > >

> > > 'Scourge is truely overpowered and it shouldn't be that hard to beat a thief with scourge'

> > >

> > > So you're complaining about Thief being unkillable yet complaining Necromancer being Op?

> > >

> > > You can't play both sides; you can't play the victim

> > >

> > > Chose

> > >

> > > * Either thief are hard to beat

> > > * Either thief are easy to beat

> > >

> > >

> >

> > None of them. I'm just saying I don't know how to play against thief, duh.

> >

> > @"Vitali.5039" Thanks for tips. I'm using greatsword with Reaper build. I tought I had edited it. ._.

> >

> >

> > @"Cynz.9437" Thanks a lot. That was very illuminating! I was aware of that bug because of Blink and Sand Swell but never tought that I can use it for my benefit lol. That's really evil. Also I tried to play thief a bit but I suck at assasin-like classes in every game :(

> >

> > I will try those and inform you if it works.

>

> The point is not to be amazing thief, the point is to get feel for their mechanics so next time you face one, you know what they are and when they are at their weakest.

> GL :)

 

^ This exactly.Only to watch the porting mechanic,the init regen,how long theyre able to stealth and when theyre about spike you all comes from actually trying the class a bit yourself.You can watch all the vids in the world but actually doing it yourself makes you much more aware to what a thief is actually capable off.

[babazhook.6805]

Playing against a thief is more about playing against their INI pool and getting a feel for when it exhausted and what that can leave them in the way of attacks. With INI gone all they have left on either weaponset is the AA and if you can bait them to expend INI for no payback you gain the upper hand. If all of the INI based attacks of the thief are successful in doing what he intends, then he tends to be in the driving seat .

[Miroe.2054]

For mesmer I'd tell you to stand with your back into a clone when the thief goes invisible. Or blink/invis a second before you anticipate a backstab.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

For Reaper vs Thief, there were a few posts in the necro forums, but I'll just quote them here for your viewing.

 

> # Against D/P, S/D, D/D thieves

>

> * Dodge their steal. I know this is largely guess work, but with enough playtime, you have a fair chance to tell when a steal might be coming.

> * If you didn't manage to dodge their steal, enter shroud as soon as you can react to mitigate the burst

> * You have 2 options from here when you enter shroud

> * First option: Shroud 4 whirl immediately. It does **massive** damage on the thief and can down him very quickly. I do not recommend doing this here though as the thief is probably not low enough in health yet and he would probably have enough reaction time to get out alive unless the stars align and all your runes/traits proc and crit together for one lovely burst.

> * Second option: Leave Shroud immediately after entering because good thieves will stop pressuring and get out of the way

> * Assuming you did the second option, pressure him with range Axe 2

> * Swap to GS and cast GS 4 blinding AOE to negate the pressure

> * Now wait for him to engage again and this time, with his health preferably lower at around 80%, Shroud and Shroud 4 the moment he jumps on you

> * This usually KOs the thief from 80% to 0% HP

>

> The above is a very general rotation, but the main idea is to try and lower his health till about 80% and Shroud 4 burst him because Shroud 4 hits like a truck.

> The build you are using will matter though.

> You will need a high power burst build and the Reaper's Onslaught trait is key. It triggers the Shroud 4 spin to go faster and hit harder.

>

> Note though that the shroud 4 burst trick does not work against all thief builds.

> It will work against builds like D/P, S/D, D/D.

> Range thieves for example won't take your Shroud 4 spin easily unless you managed to land a pull with your GS or Spectral Grasp.

> Evade thieves like Staff or Sword/Pistol won't take your Shroud 4 spin easily either as their attack animation is accompanied by evades.

> Different ways will need to be used to fight them.

>

> # Against P/P, Rifle Thieves

>

> Against Range thieves like P/P or Rifle Deadeyes, it is important to land your pull. Whether it is your spectral grasp or your GS 5, don't spam them early. Leave them for mid fights when the thief has expanded at least one gap opener and preferably taken some damage. Then pull and Shroud whirl 4.

>

> # Against Staff Thieves

>

> Against Staff thieves, I had previously created a video on how to fight them as a Condi Reaper. What I didn't share in the video though, was that movement was very important. Not only must you keep moving, the secret against most Staff thieves is to move side-ways a little and then **move in** straight towards them. Many of them have the tendency to use Staff 5 to gap close on you and this requires estimation and placement from the thief. Moving your Reaper side-ways a little can throw their estimation off when you change direction to move in towards them and you can mitigate a lot of damage just by making them miss Staff 5 via your movement.

>

> # Against S/P Thieves

>

> Personally I find Sword/Pistol thieves the hardest to fight on a Reaper as they chain immobilize, daze, evade in their attacks which are all deadly against a Reaper.

> I had however, asked on the thief forums for advice and while most of them agree that S/P thief counters a Reaper, some have informed me that the Pistol whip chain produces a very distinct sound that will give us time to dodge. Unfortunately, I don't like playing with sound on so I didn't really test that out, but you could if you play with sound.

> I did however, learnt some things through my fights with S/P thieves. In fact, I just killed a Sword/Pistol thief (a good one too, killed me 3 times before), on my Power Reaper.

> The most important lesson I learnt against S/P thieves was that you needed to have a good gauge of when they will jump you with pistol whip (if you don't play with sound, it is really just based on guess work made better by experience). Blind with dagger or dodge it. It eats into their initiatives easily and preventing just two of these pistol whips in a fight will tilt the fight in your favor.

 

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Since you linked me back to this thread asking for more info, Eremite, a few things to note when in this matchup:

>

> Dodging steal is obviously ideal, but in the cases where you don't, the thief's build and how you respond can be a critical part in determining how both they will play and how you can use their own strategies against them.

>

> While DA has fallen off in use, any thief using DA (often still at the top end of players) will press an advantage they have from Lotus Poison's application of Weakness. This has huge implications in terms of how you can beat (or lose to) a thief: Weakness cuts endurance refilling, which means you have fewer chances to dodge key burst attempts, but more importantly, it reduces outgoing critical/power damage by a huge amount, meaning your retaliatory combos with Soul Spiral, Charge/Scythe, GS AA1/2, and Axe 2 may fall short of being able to land a killing blow. Upon being hit by steal, you should use Suffer! immediately to cleanse the weakness, since the condition removal component will prioritize the weakness, deal damage to the thief, and chill them, hitting their utility skill/endurance refunding cooldowns, slowing them down with chill allowing you to catch up, or simply forcing one of the very few cleanses thieves have access to.

>

> Comboing your hard CC when they come back to fight you is also good to do, especially if you force their primary forms of escape early. A good GS5 pull can force shadowstep, and most thieves will need to re-close that gap back into melee. GS5 -> Shroud -> S2 (their Shadowstep)>S5>S3>S4>S3 (Fear) will force their hand into the return while still leaving you on lower cooldowns, and even if half of this hits, they're likely still going down.

>

> Against P/P, you want to really just take full advantage of not giving them a full channel of unload by at the start of the fight, taking the first few hits of the first unload but dodging the end; the initiative cost goes from 2 to 5 if not every hit lands. Dodge the second unload (they'll cast it again) or use DCharge to deny projectiles if they use Body Shot to immobilize you. They *will* have enough initiative to cast four consecutive times if they do things correctly, and since every hit of unload also gives them might, it's essential you maintain some resources to negate the final two, which is why I suggest keeping DCharge on reserve and using Suffer to transfer any immob you might have early from Body Shot or Panic Strike, and since most do not run Dash since the nerf given Bound's synergy with P/P, this can make for a great punishment opportunity. If you save DCharge for Unload #3/4, you can negate their high-coefficient incoming hit at 25 might and also reach them by closing the gap from DCharge itself, and if they're unskilled and spam use of Unload again, the blind from Charge will negate the first hit and thus also consume the full initiative cost of the ability.

 

 

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Lethion.8745" said:

> I use a lot different builds but we can consider most generic ones which I use often.

> [Reaper](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBHbhG2JJNQLNYpNgPNA9mYpXwgGTFgAQ8TsKeFneCDhlAA-jphIQBgsMwxOIAsY/BAcEAE4DAwfnAAA "Reaper")

 

This is not how you do a reaper build.

 

First off, you're running a healing power amulet on a build that has nothing that scales with healing power. A paladins amulet would be a far better choice for this build.

Secondly, why are you running Decimate Defenses? You don't have the vulnerability generation to make strong use of that trait, you'd get better performance off the other traits.

Third, you're using dagger. Why? Greatsword is a across the board superior melee weapon

Fourth, You have very little condi management in your build.

Fifth, if you're running awaken the pain, you should invest in better might generation. Hoelbrak or Strength runes would be better. Plus those runes are better blighter's boon value.

Sixth, Signet of Undeath even with SoS is still bad. You're effectively throwing away a utility slot.

 

You're build wouldn't do jack to a thief, or any other class for that matter. In reality there is no such thing as a reaper build that is effective against a thief, because the entire concept of Reaper is countered heavily by thief.