Deadeye is totally balanced, you guys

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

 

Previously there was a thread about thief-death's judgement damages

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/5756/deaths-judgment/p1

 

**'The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun'**

 

Until Anet redesign thief; expect the same as before, nothing new, nothing will be done

[Slyven.8637]

Wait...........someone got killed by a deadeye?............. really? when? where? did you fall asleep at the keyboard? Did you get slammed by lag? I mean all you hive to do is step 3 paces and VIOLA' you have escaped from that deadye. And treestumps, they are the deadyeye's natural predator. And small rocks, and trees, and anything larger than a squirrel really.

[Kirin.7306]

More scared of mesmer bombs than any sniper.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

 

I believe you. I was once one-shotted by a big boulder that came from 10k range, practically no warning or telegraph, not even a laser pointer or AoE circles. Just BAM, I'm squished like a bug. And the condition damage on those cow carcass is way, way OP too. It's too OP that it can melt my supplies.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

>

> I believe you. I was once one-shotted by a big boulder that came from 10k range, practically no warning or telegraph, not even a laser pointer or AoE circles. Just BAM, I'm squished like a bug. And the condition damage on those cow carcass is way, way OP too. It's too OP that it can melt my supplies.

 

now that you mention it, i also have been oneshot by a treb once - never thought about asking for nerfs, wich profession subforum does that need to be posted in? wich profession is mainly on such trebs?

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

> >

> > I believe you. I was once one-shotted by a big boulder that came from 10k range, practically no warning or telegraph, not even a laser pointer or AoE circles. Just BAM, I'm squished like a bug. And the condition damage on those cow carcass is way, way OP too. It's too OP that it can melt my supplies.

>

> now that you mention it, i also have been oneshot by a treb once - never thought about asking for nerfs, wich profession subforum does that need to be posted in? wich profession is mainly on such trebs?

 

Once again; this isn't about asking for thief nerf. It's about Anet promoting thief not to be.

 

'Thieves are less powerful in terms of durability in comparison to some professions. They must rely on stealth, evasion, surprise attacks, and debilitating and damaging conditions to overpower their opponents. An experienced thief can take on multiple targets but preferably one at a time'

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thief

 

There is no where mentioned of thief being able to 1 shot their opponents in Anet thief descriptions

 

'**When Your

Actions

Contradicts

Your

Words......

Prepare

For

Repercussion** '

[DoomNexus.5324]

> @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

 

wow.. [this discussion again](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17435/50k-hit-sad "this discussion again")..

Yeah yeah, please keep pretending thieves/deadeye is op, ofc he's the most op class in the game because thief is anet's favorite class so they make him op af.. yeah yeah..

[KrHome.1920]

Defending what DJ is capable of in WvW is a good example to show what's wrong with the community.

 

"It's fine because other classes can do the same" (I guess realizing that these classes are equally broken is too much for some people)

"It's fine because it has a huge ramp up time" (where it is impossible to fight back which is the definition of bad design and unfun mechanics)

"It's fine because you can dodge/block... it" (no you can't dodge/block a melee ranged quickness DJ out of stealth unless your reflexes are godlike)

(other thread) "It's fine because you can run into a tower" (cool thanks! we have reached the ultimate game balance, just stay near towers)

 

I destroy bandwagon metabattle copybuild sniper noobs all day. That's not the point. These guys are nowhere near capable of using the build's full potential. Balancing should not be based on bronze players.

[Phil.7369]

> @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

 

but, but.. you can dodge it! and it has a warning indicator!

 

~Deadeye players 2017~

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

>

> wow.. [this discussion again](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17435/50k-hit-sad "this discussion again")..

> Yeah yeah, please keep pretending thieves/deadeye is op, ofc he's the most op class in the game because thief is anet's favorite class so they make him op af.. yeah yeah..

 

I'm not saying deadeye is "op" I'm saying it's cancer in WvW

It's actually really weak in pvp. I want it to thrive in pvp and get buffed in other areas, but the one-shot kill is kind of toxic in a game like this.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > @"DoomNexus.5324" said:

> > > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

> >

> > wow.. [this discussion again](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17435/50k-hit-sad "this discussion again")..

> > Yeah yeah, please keep pretending thieves/deadeye is op, ofc he's the most op class in the game because thief is anet's favorite class so they make him op af.. yeah yeah..

>

> I'm not saying deadeye is "op" I'm saying it's cancer in WvW

> It's actually really weak in pvp. I want it to thrive in pvp and get buffed in other areas, but the one-shot kill is kind of toxic in a game like this.

 

How often are you encountering these types of hits? I'm not trying to downplay your frustration, I am genuinely curious. I can count on one hand how many times I encounter a stealth-driven 1HKO DE in WvW, let alone *any* types of DE other than myself.

[kash.9213]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said:

> > > > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > > > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

> > >

> > > wow.. [this discussion again](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/17435/50k-hit-sad "this discussion again")..

> > > Yeah yeah, please keep pretending thieves/deadeye is op, ofc he's the most op class in the game because thief is anet's favorite class so they make him op af.. yeah yeah..

> >

> > I'm not saying deadeye is "op" I'm saying it's cancer in WvW

> > It's actually really weak in pvp. I want it to thrive in pvp and get buffed in other areas, but the one-shot kill is kind of toxic in a game like this.

>

> How often are you encountering these types of hits? I'm not trying to downplay your frustration, I am genuinely curious. I can count on one hand how many times I encounter a stealth-driven 1HKO DE in WvW, let alone *any* types of DE other than myself.

 

They're not getting hit by them all the time and DE's aren't "cancer" in WvW because they're rarely seen and when they are they're usually trying to bounce out all the circles, if they're even using rifle and half of them don't. So unless this bunch are out there hitting each other with DJ so they can say it's a thing then they're just making stuff up. Most times another DE tried to hit me with DJ it falls short because of the confusing range buffer, I just don't see those shots much anymore unless it's an afker because it's not worth using the initiative on a failed DJ.

[ArthurDent.9538]

It looks to me like you were infact 2 shot by this deadeye, not one shot. Balanced engaging game play.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

 

no. if you want to change it into a sniper like in FPS games, then also with no indicator and allways oneshot on headshot. oh and no slow projectile or even dogging a bullet.

 

if the class can make people create threads hat its OP and at the same time threads that it is garbage, then either side or both are wrong.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> > new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

>

> no. if you want to change it into a sniper like in FPS games, then also with no indicator and allways oneshot on headshot. oh and no slow projectile or even dogging a bullet.

>

> if the class can make people create threads hat its OP and at the same time threads that it is garbage, then either side or both are wrong.

 

wheres my permanent marker, ill just prepare a dot for the middle of my screen ^_^

[Llethander.3972]

Heh, it's almost like Kill Shot hasn't been a thing forever.

[Slugonaut.9841]

> @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

 

I don't agree with the FPS camera view but, gaining initiative faster while kneeled definitely makes sense. Even if it functioned like Infiltrators Signet adding a small 1 initiative every ten seconds I don't think would be game breaking.

 

[Kanade.6750]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"Elementalist Owner.7802" said:

> > > https://i.imgur.com/DRUdQod.jpg

> > > Just want to thank whoever thought of the brilliant idea of putting a one-shot kill ability into an open world PvP battleground where fights can have dozens of players on each side and where everyone has at least 10 skills on their bar. It has created such interactive gameplay, such as getting literally one-shotted through 3300 armor and 25k health. I'm having fun just thinking about it! Thanks balance team!

> >

> > I believe you. I was once one-shotted by a big boulder that came from 10k range, practically no warning or telegraph, not even a laser pointer or AoE circles. Just BAM, I'm squished like a bug. And the condition damage on those cow carcass is way, way OP too. It's too OP that it can melt my supplies.

>

> now that you mention it, i also have been oneshot by a treb once - never thought about asking for nerfs, wich profession subforum does that need to be posted in? wich profession is mainly on such trebs?

 

It's not about profession, it's about race. Only Asura and Charr use them.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

After seeing threads like this I always wonder: "How would a necromancer reflect stuff?"

[jaif.3518]

Just try it, you'll see. The best builds get played the most, and rifle dead-eye is not played much. It can be fun, but it's work to get that shot, especially in a zerg.

 

I've been playing a shortbow-condi-deadeye in zergs; it's actually useful and has a fair burst of damage and a decent amount of AoE. I contribute far more than a few creative kills per hour that way.

 

But again, just play it. Then go play mirage, spellbreaker, firebrand, etc. Try things out before you complain.

 

-Jeff

 

[Priestes Of Dragons.5287]

I think something they should do instead is remove kneeling cooldown and allow us to kneel as many times as we like. In heated combat your"re going to get up so many times its so frustrating kneeling and then unkneeling only to have a cool down. instead they should place a cooldown on the kneeling traits so it cant be spammed, but it allows us to fight more since alot of dps comes from kneeling as well.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> > new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

>

> no. if you want to change it into a sniper like in FPS games, then also with no indicator and allways oneshot on headshot. oh and no slow projectile or even dogging a bullet.

>

> if the class can make people create threads hat its OP and at the same time threads that it is garbage, then either side or both are wrong.

 

Conversely, both sides can be correct.

Everyone who denounced the sniper concept before the DE was even released knew that this would happen. You can't balance a sniper OHKO thief. It's a complete failure of design, not numbers.

 

With obvious counterplay to negate the damage, it's weak. Without such tells, it's absolutely broken. If you cut the OHKO potential out but keep the playstyle, it has no value anywhere and can't deliver the numbers the concept needs.

 

So at best assuming tradeoffs are made and it's just not completely busted, it becomes "good" against people who don't understand it or simply in environments with too much going on to notice the tells/lag in WvW. Which is exactly what the DE is and always will be unless totally redesigned from the ground up to be something entirely different. It will never be a competitive spec and will never be good unless ANet makes it both numerically and conceptually overpowered. Which I hope they don't. Because fighting against something like that is anti-fun.

 

But let's face it: That's not gonna happen. People without any semblance of understanding of the balance identity of thief demanded a sniper almost daily, and not enough people spoke against it, and ANet delivered because like the people suggesting the concept, they went by "rule of cool" versus gameplay integrity.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> > > new suggestion: Deadeye is forced to use First Person View and combat camera but in return can go up to 2000 range and gain faster initiative while kneeled

> >

> > no. if you want to change it into a sniper like in FPS games, then also with no indicator and allways oneshot on headshot. oh and no slow projectile or even dogging a bullet.

> >

> > if the class can make people create threads hat its OP and at the same time threads that it is garbage, then either side or both are wrong.

>

> Conversely, both sides can be correct.

> Everyone who denounced the sniper concept before the DE was even released knew that this would happen. You can't balance a sniper OHKO thief. It's a complete failure of design, not numbers.

>

> With obvious counterplay to negate the damage, it's weak. Without such tells, it's absolutely broken. If you cut the OHKO potential out but keep the playstyle, it has no value anywhere and can't deliver the numbers the concept needs.

>

> So at best assuming tradeoffs are made and it's just not completely busted, it becomes "good" against people who don't understand it or simply in environments with too much going on to notice the tells/lag in WvW. Which is exactly what the DE is and always will be unless totally redesigned from the ground up to be something entirely different. It will never be a competitive spec and will never be good unless ANet makes it both numerically and conceptually overpowered. Which I hope they don't. Because fighting against something like that is anti-fun.

>

> But let's face it: That's not gonna happen. People without any semblance of understanding of the balance identity of thief demanded a sniper almost daily, and not enough people spoke against it, and ANet delivered because like the people suggesting the concept, they went by "rule of cool" versus gameplay integrity.

 

thats correct a sniper will allways be underpowered or overpowered in competitive sense. currently it is underpowered but still strong enough in WvW.

so i doubt it will get nerfed to be useless in any mode apart from hiding in WvW ( in keeps/towers to flip em back), as i dont think they will nerf at stealth potential if the only complains are about OHKO.

i used to roam on any class in WvW, but with time and power creep it got harder to fight outnumbered and the outnumbered fights became more frequent so after a while i only roamed on mesmer , warrior , thief. then dropped warrior and after a while also mesmer and only roam on thief for quite a while now cause its the only class that can escape/avoid ANY fight so is also able to 1 vs alot of 'noobs' . shortly after HoT, when condi chrono groups flooded roaming i switched to shadow arts, to realize that i now had easy permastealth and started hiding in enemy keeps and towers. with that much stealth i realized i can fight groups of any size if they are bad enough. apart from the deadeye elite i miss to quickstomp, deadeye was pretty much a 100% upgrade to this playstyle.

so for me its just basically playing hide and seek now instead of roaming, wich is alot of fun for me, but guessing from the whispers i recieve i think its not much fun to my opponents, just had a few that had fun and ask for the build but mostly its like today from someone on vabbi 'nevr seen someone abuse stealth as much'..

i do think that solo roaming is pretty much dead (aside from thieves and mesmers that can escape/kill a deadeye easily) atm and groups should not be affected by that build, so i dont think it will be a balancing priority. and i dont think we will get a complete redsign wich probably would also need to change the weapon.

[eldrjth.7384]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

 

> Conversely, both sides can be correct.

> Everyone who denounced the sniper concept before the DE was even released knew that this would happen. You can't balance a sniper OHKO thief. It's a complete failure of design, not numbers.

>

> With obvious counterplay to negate the damage, it's weak. Without such tells, it's absolutely broken. If you cut the OHKO potential out but keep the playstyle, it has no value anywhere and can't deliver the numbers the concept needs.

 

If they got rid of the one hit kill and raised the overall dps on the weapon set then there wouldnt be a problem. Who says an ohk power **had** to be part of the kit in the first place? (its ohk but think about the long ramp up time to achieve this move) and who says that in order to balance a class for PvP you have to hamstring it in PvE? Maybe its Anet who should have thought about balance more carefully when they designed DE. The rifle set as a whole feels clunky to use, kneeling should be a profession skill roll shouldnt share the same skill slot as DJ, and Dead eyes mark shouldnt take forever to cast and be uninterruptible by a players own action. Totally bad execution. Its not like they couldnt fix the issues right now, or that a sniper class is inherently a bad design, even if they wanted DJ to hit hard. Could just make it a 3 hit kill skill that cost less initiative so players can react to their HP going down.