Ghos.1326 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Caro.2730" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > you are losing b/c you aren't good enough to win > > > > the people beating you aren't winning because they are good it's because you are not good enough > > > > 1v1 vs a mirage isn't about how skilled both opponents are but how competent the mirage player is. The non mirage players skill is irrelevant in this situation > > I don't think that's what I said. I win a lot, but I also lose a lot. I basically meant, that it all depends on the skill of the players and not the class. Of course I'll easily win against worse players and lose harder against better ones. I don't think that a good Mirage can defeat any good player playing any other profession. Someone is just worse and someone is better, always. > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > Mirage is easily one of the top, if not the best, duelist in the game right now when played well. It has a few things that **need** to be toned down. It has some things that **ARE** overpowered. > > You realize that someone has to be one of the top? It's not that I fully disagree with you, it's just if Mirage won't be one of the top, other classes will. It's like people can't handle a mesmer being actually good in something. > > > @"takatsu.9416" said: > > Of course there are things that need to be tuned for all classes but none need a complete 180 > > I fully agree and yet people demand removing EM, removing clones, removing detargeting. You may remove mirage as a whole with it. > > Hey Caro, Not trying to beat you for your opinion, just expressing something here. I don't think the issue is people not liking seeing mesmer good at something. I like to see profession use to be diverse and interesting. But mesmer right now is stupidly strong. I agree with you on the class does not need a 180. That would be redic. But, there are more things than not that need to be toned down to put this profession in a balanced state. I believe, depending on the build, mesmers should be great duelists. But being a duelist shouldn't mean being able to kill within a few seconds, if even that, of entering a fight. That should solely be a burst build. But even burst builds should not be able to take down one's entire health pool in one faceroll of keys pressed. Not even thief can really do that, and they have good burst damage. Whoever mentioned clones needing to be removed, that's just silly, and it sounds more like angry, frustrated venting. I don't think clones should be able to spawn AS OFTEN as they do now, but to remove them completely? That's, sorry for saying, just stupid. One thing i suggested in other posts, was to lower uptime of the confusion condition, since they can apply so many stacks in one go. This would fit it into the bursty condition category that a dev stated that it is. Burst should not be sustained damage. sustained damage should be sustained damage. Anywho, hope this opens up some thought on this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghos.1326 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > @"choovanski.5462" said: > > > > @"viquing.8254" said: > > > > I mean in solo ranked Q. > > > > If it's the best duelist in combinaison with his mobility and portal the first 20 top player should be mesmers. > > > > > > team fight builds carry better than duelists dude.... > > > > > > mirage is not a far point troll 3 people build like druid, and it's not a teamfighter. it's a duelist. sure that means it's not the best carry, **but that doesn't mean it's not broken.** > > > > I have to disagree. > > If it has it's role, but does not dominate the actual game type or solo carry the game to victory then it's fine. By that example Druid would be a lot more "broken" > > > > I have been vocal about my dislike of conquest, and this type of balance philosophy in the past for this exact reason. However it has been made abundantly clear that the game has no intention to 1v1 balance, and that conquest is all that really matters for PvP. > > > > So if we are staying with conquest and never evolving away from it, then no. Mirage and every strong 1v1 spec of past seasons, or metas (prior to HoTs) are not broken. > > ah, i guess you’re one of those people who thought pre nerf spellbreaker was fine > > because you obviously don’t have an issue with builds that have winning 1v1 matchups vs all meta builds, & little to no counterplay (plus a 30+ confusion stack burst) > > woaky.... Choov, I agree with you here. Definitely. I also agree with Daishi here about druid. They can basically heal to full health in one go, and still dish out insane amounts of damage. They are almost impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're also a druid, or a mesmer. Anything with that much healing sustain should not be able to deal out crazy amounts of damage. There has to be a fine line between doing damage and having high sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghos.1326 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? I'd say anet just messed up conditions having any truly defined role at all in GW2 by vomiting them onto every skill and trait that they could. If condis were kept to flat, outgoing damage totals and restrained to 1-2 per build across all respective professions and weapon options, then we could have seen more skills like > > * Deal +X% more damage vs poisoned targets > * Heal yourself and nearby allies for each bleed stack on struck foes > * Gain X whenever you inflict vulnerability on a target. > > Man, we could have had an entire build just devoted to stacking vuln because it could have been mildly difficult to juggle 25 stacks and only a few professions could even get access to vuln. Instead, everyone inflicts insane amounts of random conditions even if they're running power builds. Condis are just everywhere. The game is drowning in them to the point where they lose any real purpose at all except MUH DPS. As negative as this sounds, I agree with this actually. This is very true, it is noticeable across all professions that at least one weapon skill in their arsenal deals some kind of condition, maybe even 2. Keeping certain conditions unique to certain professions would have been such a cool, interesting thing. A lot of other MMOs i played in the past were like this. (Jade Dynasty with the Fast condition, it was exclusive to only like 1 or 2 classes, this prevented your target from eating health items to heal, resulting in a slow rotting death if they got hit with a DoT) Poison could be a necro thing, confusion could be a mesmer thing, bleeding could be on a few classes since cutting/getting shot irl caused you to bleed lol, burn could be exclusive to ele and engi (when and if they use flamethrower) and even for berserk warrior, or weapons that utilize torch. So many options can stem from this while also making it unique. I also think vuln should be on skills that either daze, stun, or other types of cc on an opponent, opening options for a true burst build, since you would definitely be vulnerable if you were launched a few feet back from where you stood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcx.3570 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Caro.2730" said: > First of all I do not mean to make anyone angry nor am I a white knight. I apologize if none of you will agree with me. :) I love all people. > But am I the only one who thinks that all these complaints about mirage being OP are a bit biased? You all demand nerfs that would actually render mesmer useless and totally unviable everywhere. Of course, mesmer is powerful and may need a little less here and a little more there, but so do other classes. Balance does not mean not having to try to win a fight and kill someone easily. That's not balance at all. I think some of you may be mistaken by thinking hard fights are unbalanced. I consider myself a good mesmer, I've been playing it for almost 5 years. I use axe with a torch and a staff, I also use Inifnity Horizon over Elusive Mind and Illusionary Ambush over Signet of Midnight. I do sometimes kill people within 2 or 3 seconds, but not always and as much as I am winning, I'm also losing. There is counter and advantage to everything. I've been obliterated by good holosmiths and power guardians. I had a hard time against awesome druids, immortal firebrands, even some good weavers. (Yes, you'd be amazed. They literally oneshot everyone, yet I still recall threads like "Weaver is garbage" here.) Scourge, whenever he successfully sends back my stacks of confusion to me it's like a death sentence. Everything can be deadly and everything can be survived, just not every build counters everything and some builds take advantage of some things. I once inflicted on a warrior 35 stacks of confusion and he still killed me in 1vs1, because I used all my possible skills to do so and I was out of any cooldowns or dodges. He waited few seconds (Most of the confusion is from shatters, so it doesn't last long), he applied resistance to himself and it was almost 0 damage. You can say that I was just bad, but yet, you can still survive such amount of confusion. I'd also like to point out that you can't inflict 35 stacks of confusion with Elusive Mind, you need Inifnite Horizon. You also can't do it with a sword. You need axe or the scepter at least, which is quite unpredictable with the ambush attack. I traded damage over survivability, so yes, I'm able to inflict massive stacks of confusion, but it's not a win button. I can still lose. The meta build on the other hand isn't as deadly. I don't get it why you have so much trouble surviving 18 stacks of confusion with all of your condi cleanses, which are quite effective from what I see by applying even more conditions. Due to all of the power creep that is going on everywhere, Mirage needs its burst, to compete. If you don't think Mirage is that OP, let me ask you what you think counters a good Mirage's absolute control over a game other than another, more skilled Mirage? Portal alone has been utterly breaking some of the maps for a long time now... Now it's paired with a skill set composed of insane damage output, on point survivability, and multiple escapes from +1's that is unrivaled by any of the other classes. You mention good holosmiths and good power DH's countering you, but that literally shouldn't be possible unless they caught you napping or you somehow let yourself get tagged with Spear of Justice. A good spellbreaker can probably force you off point if your strips didn't tag his resistance, but there's nothing he can do to catch/kill you and his resistance spam can't keep up with your pressure. I'm sorry, but there's nothing else even close to the same tier level in decapping or 1v1's that's also as effective in team fighting or +1'ing. There's just nothing that a Mirage isn't great at doing and thus no way to directly counter them or play around them... You just have to hope that you're a lot better at the game than they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? [snip] You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" > > > > > > > > > > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem. > > > > > > > > > > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on. > > > > > > > > > > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo. > > > > > > > > > > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable. > > > > > > > > This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest. > > > > > > > > The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic. > > > > > > > > ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst. > > > > > > > > That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW). > > > > > > > > They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies. > > > > > > Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced. [snip] > > > > Read all the archived patch notes for this game. If you don't have time, use Google to search through them for "WvW" and exclude paragraphs that also mention"PvP", you will find more than a handful of changes. If you have more time you can also tally the many alterations that asymmetrically influence WvW but don't explicitly mention it (for instance the signet of inspiration nerf). > > > > As for the second half of your statement do you have a source for any of this multiple occasions? It seems an odd thing for them to say since they certainly try to balance for it often. > > WvW used PvE balance which was balanced for PvE. Big culprit were daamage reductions in PvP that didn't go over to WvW etc. > > Also the amount of changes made based solely on WvW is small And there are changes that affect PvP and WvW but not PvE. The patch notes won't spell it out for you, but when professions are designed and altered in ways that only affect large scale combat you can guess what they are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? [snip] > > You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on. > > > > > > > > > > > > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest. > > > > > > > > > > The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst. > > > > > > > > > > That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW). > > > > > > > > > > They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies. > > > > > > > > Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced. [snip] > > > > > > Read all the archived patch notes for this game. If you don't have time, use Google to search through them for "WvW" and exclude paragraphs that also mention"PvP", you will find more than a handful of changes. If you have more time you can also tally the many alterations that asymmetrically influence WvW but don't explicitly mention it (for instance the signet of inspiration nerf). > > > > > > As for the second half of your statement do you have a source for any of this multiple occasions? It seems an odd thing for them to say since they certainly try to balance for it often. > > > > WvW used PvE balance which was balanced for PvE. Big culprit were daamage reductions in PvP that didn't go over to WvW etc. > > > > Also the amount of changes made based solely on WvW is small > > And there are changes that affect PvP and WvW but not PvE. The patch notes won't spell it out for you, but when professions are designed and altered in ways that only affect large scale combat you can guess what they are talking about. > > > Minimal changes You act like they've been actively splitting it since day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Morwath.9817" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"Falan.1839" said: > > > > I stopped reading at Infinity Horizon over Elusive Mind. > > > > > > Actually the top mesmer players, who are running Power Shatter Mirage over Condi Mirage, typically run Infinite Horizon over Elusive Mind. > > > > Actually the top mesmer players believe, let Quaggan quote Lord Jebseth himself "condi Mirage is the most cancerous thing in history of GW2, maybe only bunker mes was worse" and "Elusive Mind is broken and never should be made", something like that... > > Source? genuinely curious A league top mesmer main posted his build in the mesmer forums a few weaks back. You'd have to dig for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartarus.1082 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 At the very least condition mirage is pretty toxic with it's burst potential. when I was working with the spec around launch I could pretty much look at something and they'd have 17 stacks of confusion. Moreover once that got cleansed I still had the CDs to reapply lethal amounts of confusion. Even if for some reason you don't think it's op, It is very much fair to claim that the spec is frustrating to fight and boring to play. Although, most of the meta specs feel that way. Firebrand can sustain for days, scourge has pretty much deleted any melee heavy spec like rev and scrapper, and the list of complaints can go on for ages. So I think it's fair to say that mirage along with pretty much every other spec is excessively overtuned. Realistically, everything needs to be nerfed and the state of balance is honestly somewhat comical after you just stop caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Delete Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartarus.1082 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > Delete Mirage. Even as a Mesmer main, I just have to agree lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I started to play Mirage now, I don't even know what I'm doing lmao but I know I spam clones, shatters and stealth and eventually they die. I know I'm really bad but I feel so good killing 1-2 people on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > > > > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? [snip] > > > > You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest. > > > > > > > > > > > > The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW). > > > > > > > > > > > > They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies. > > > > > > > > > > Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced. [snip] > > > > > > > > Read all the archived patch notes for this game. If you don't have time, use Google to search through them for "WvW" and exclude paragraphs that also mention"PvP", you will find more than a handful of changes. If you have more time you can also tally the many alterations that asymmetrically influence WvW but don't explicitly mention it (for instance the signet of inspiration nerf). > > > > > > > > As for the second half of your statement do you have a source for any of this multiple occasions? It seems an odd thing for them to say since they certainly try to balance for it often. > > > > > > WvW used PvE balance which was balanced for PvE. Big culprit were daamage reductions in PvP that didn't go over to WvW etc. > > > > > > Also the amount of changes made based solely on WvW is small > > > > And there are changes that affect PvP and WvW but not PvE. The patch notes won't spell it out for you, but when professions are designed and altered in ways that only affect large scale combat you can guess what they are talking about. > > > > > > > > Minimal changes > > You act like they've been actively splitting it since day 1 Who said anything about splitting? Two examples. * Explicitly about WvW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19#Guardian "A large portion of the changes occurring for the guardian are aimed toward reducing the dragonhunter's group controlling and killing capacity in WvW" * Implicitly about WvW https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-10-18#Mesmer "In this update, mesmers will see a reduction in readily available boon output through Signet of Inspiration." This was during the boon meta in WvW when everyone had perma of every boon. Those changes weren't minimal to WvWers, and the latter is a good example of the unforeseen consequences in balancing for WvW: Heralds were taken out of PvE raids. In the context of Mirage. The spec doesn't conform easily to stacking on a commander. Deception skills specifically are terrible in a blob fight, with the exception of jaunt, because they can leave you or a mirror in awful locations. Unfortunately, you had to use them because you couldn't waste dodges on ambushing. Elusive mind helps you use these skills and not die. They changed Desert Distortion so you can use signets, but that comes with the drawback of requiring domination. Either way, elusive mind is still essential to filling the survivability deficit cause by losing shield/f5. I don't care if elusive mind is overtuned in a 1v1. 1v1 isnt a gamemode, WvW is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > > > > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > > > > > > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? [snip] > > > > > > You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced. [snip] > > > > > > > > > > Read all the archived patch notes for this game. If you don't have time, use Google to search through them for "WvW" and exclude paragraphs that also mention"PvP", you will find more than a handful of changes. If you have more time you can also tally the many alterations that asymmetrically influence WvW but don't explicitly mention it (for instance the signet of inspiration nerf). > > > > > > > > > > As for the second half of your statement do you have a source for any of this multiple occasions? It seems an odd thing for them to say since they certainly try to balance for it often. > > > > > > > > WvW used PvE balance which was balanced for PvE. Big culprit were daamage reductions in PvP that didn't go over to WvW etc. > > > > > > > > Also the amount of changes made based solely on WvW is small > > > > > > And there are changes that affect PvP and WvW but not PvE. The patch notes won't spell it out for you, but when professions are designed and altered in ways that only affect large scale combat you can guess what they are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Minimal changes > > > > You act like they've been actively splitting it since day 1 > Who said anything about splitting? > Two examples. > * Explicitly about WvW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19#Guardian "A large portion of the changes occurring for the guardian are aimed toward reducing the dragonhunter's group controlling and killing capacity in WvW" > * Implicitly about WvW https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-10-18#Mesmer "In this update, mesmers will see a reduction in readily available boon output through Signet of Inspiration." This was during the boon meta in WvW when everyone had perma of every boon. > > Those changes weren't minimal to WvWers, and the latter is a good example of the unforeseen consequences in balancing for WvW: Heralds were taken out of PvE raids. > > In the context of Mirage. The spec doesn't conform easily to stacking on a commander. Deception skills specifically are terrible in a blob fight, with the exception of jaunt, because they can leave you or a mirror in awful locations. Unfortunately, you had to use them because you couldn't waste dodges on ambushing. Elusive mind helps you use these skills and not die. They changed Desert Distortion so you can use signets, but that comes with the drawback of requiring domination. Either way, elusive mind is still essential to filling the survivability deficit cause by losing shield/f5. > > I don't care if elusive mind is overtuned in a 1v1. 1v1 isnt a gamemode, WvW is. Big changes like that due to WvW are very rare. Only time they do those is when it completely breaks the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi.6027 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 @"Daniel Handler.4816" Even if you were right any appeals to WvW are not helpful and only serves to derail. This is the sPvP forums, go make your case in the WvW tab. Otherwise keep your criteria for balance under the proper context. We have different stat totals, limited selection of runes/sigils, occasionally skill splits, and balanced in based on 5v5 conquest. (or stronghold if you're weird) > @"narcx.3570" said: > > If you don't think Mirage is that OP, let me ask you what you think counters a good Mirage's absolute control over a game other than another, more skilled Mirage? Better team fight builds, plus map awareness and control. You know the exact reasons why there are not a ton of mirages, and why teams don't like to stack them. **True OP** is old Cele ele, Petting zoo, Hambow, S1 Chrono bunk, and pre nerf Spell Breaker. They all have major impacts on conquest, some can carry fights, and there is no draw back to stacking them. Borderline to that would be like DH, which personally I think is on par with scourge, whom aren't really OP but can suck when they get stacked, so ppl especially at low ends complain. These are all builds really strong for conquest. A duelist will be a problem skirmishing and decaping, but if you don't have builds that are reliable for those roles then what happens to conquest? Beyond stagnation in an already dying scene... I agree Condi Mirage might be strong. But if we are focused on balance for 5v5 conquest, there is little issue beyond "on point" sustain, which is more a problem with condi than mirage. (spoilers btw, unless they give up damage for inspiration most mirage's you can push off point with a well placed condi bomb. Which is why it feels like another mirage is the best counter.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > @"Xstein.2187" said: > > > > > > > > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** ' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Man, I remember taking Feedback with Sword/Focus and having to combo like 4 skills together to attempt to stack 10+ confusion onto a single target. I lost my mind when I would land something like 15 stacks on somebody (and it's not like I knew it was effective or anything either--confusion mesmer was more of a silly experiment or fool-around gimmick). Feedback on target -> Focus Phantasm -> Void -> Sword Immobilize -> Shatter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now everyone pops 3 skills and instantaneously frontloads 10-30 stacks from range while stealthed. And then the confusion ticks passively, so anet's lauded "No, no, the proper counter-play is to do nothing for 7 seconds" is worthless even then if you're out of condi cleanses (or, more often, if your condi cleanses cleanse all of the piddly vuln and torment stacks but miss the 18 confusion blinking on your status bar). > > > > > > > > > > > > Representing both extremes here, stupidly easy access to condition stacks like the current game, versus relatively large effort to get a pretty small amount of conditions on an enemy. There is a healthy middle ground, but I do think it leans far closer to the 2013 state of the game than the current state of the game. > > > > > > > > > > Do conditions *have* to be a source of damage, though? Whatever happened to DoTs just being mild HP pressure and conditional triggers for certain skills? [snip] > > > > > > > > You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > > > > > > > > @"choovanski.5462" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced. [snip] > > > > > > > > > > > > Read all the archived patch notes for this game. If you don't have time, use Google to search through them for "WvW" and exclude paragraphs that also mention"PvP", you will find more than a handful of changes. If you have more time you can also tally the many alterations that asymmetrically influence WvW but don't explicitly mention it (for instance the signet of inspiration nerf). > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the second half of your statement do you have a source for any of this multiple occasions? It seems an odd thing for them to say since they certainly try to balance for it often. > > > > > > > > > > WvW used PvE balance which was balanced for PvE. Big culprit were daamage reductions in PvP that didn't go over to WvW etc. > > > > > > > > > > Also the amount of changes made based solely on WvW is small > > > > > > > > And there are changes that affect PvP and WvW but not PvE. The patch notes won't spell it out for you, but when professions are designed and altered in ways that only affect large scale combat you can guess what they are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Minimal changes > > > > > > You act like they've been actively splitting it since day 1 > > Who said anything about splitting? > > Two examples. > > * Explicitly about WvW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-04-19#Guardian "A large portion of the changes occurring for the guardian are aimed toward reducing the dragonhunter's group controlling and killing capacity in WvW" > > * Implicitly about WvW https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2016-10-18#Mesmer "In this update, mesmers will see a reduction in readily available boon output through Signet of Inspiration." This was during the boon meta in WvW when everyone had perma of every boon. > > > > Those changes weren't minimal to WvWers, and the latter is a good example of the unforeseen consequences in balancing for WvW: Heralds were taken out of PvE raids. > > > > In the context of Mirage. The spec doesn't conform easily to stacking on a commander. Deception skills specifically are terrible in a blob fight, with the exception of jaunt, because they can leave you or a mirror in awful locations. Unfortunately, you had to use them because you couldn't waste dodges on ambushing. Elusive mind helps you use these skills and not die. They changed Desert Distortion so you can use signets, but that comes with the drawback of requiring domination. Either way, elusive mind is still essential to filling the survivability deficit cause by losing shield/f5. > > > > I don't care if elusive mind is overtuned in a 1v1. 1v1 isnt a gamemode, WvW is. > > Big changes like that due to WvW are very rare. > > Only time they do those is when it completely breaks the game. Do you sell MTG trading cards? You don't seem to understand "very rare" and I'm looking for a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 > @"Daishi.6027" said: > @"Daniel Handler.4816" > > Even if you were right any appeals to WvW are not helpful and only serves to derail. This is the sPvP forums, go make your case in the WvW tab. Otherwise keep your criteria for balance under the proper context. We have different stat totals, limited selection of runes/sigils, occasionally skill splits, and balanced in based on 5v5 conquest. (or stronghold if you're weird) > It wasn't just an appeal to WvW. I said 1v1 isn't a game mode and I stand by that. Don't mess with an essential grandmaster because people can't rotate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > You are thinking of some other game. Strong DoT has been present in the Guild Wars franchise since the beginning. Conditions have and always will be a source of damage, especially given the removal of hexes. Conditions have NOT always been a strong source of damage in GW2 given how they had to be powercreeped for 2 YEARS until they were finally made utterly broken with a single patch. Even during those first two years, conditions saw no meta usage within PvE and were only viable on a couple of classes in PvP (mainly only by virtue that condi cleanses were even harder to come by then than they are now). As for GW1, health degen was capped at 10 pips. Ten pips is 20 health/second in a game with players who typically hovered around 550-600 health. That's, like, 25-30 seconds to kill a target with maximum degen alone (keep in mind that maximum degen wasn't something that was consistently maintained by all but maybe 1 class on the regular; and only if that class took the necessary skills--which didn't often happen except for maybe in places like Random Arenas). GW2 can consistently kill targets in under 8 seconds with degen on at least 3 classes. You are out of your mind if you're trying to compare these two paradigms. Degen has never been the way to spike targets or secure kills in GW1, and it wasn't even all that viable in the outset of GW2. Kills at the highest levels of GW1 have always been from coordinated, multi-player spikes which typically had a 1-2.5 second follow-through period; and GW2's launch saw the zerk meta (which was a perfectly fine meta, by the way because at least players had to hit things consistently in order to kill them, and the armor was easy to acquire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 thers only two kind of players who tell mesmers and it specs arent OP (very strong compared how easy they are to play). 1, the players who dont know how to play, and still hope to be carried with some copy pasta gimmick, but dont want to spend time observing how easy the game is. 2, the players who know how easy it is to get carried with certain gimmicks and dont want that nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 The evasion is worse than the confusion imo. Oh well mesmer has always been OP all the back to gw1 and I have always hated them. The people who play them probably listen to limp bizkit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 It is probably more OP than I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Maybe get 1st rank with it or l2p. :# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon.6743 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Mirage isn't OP, it's .... extremely OP... Mirage is just unkillable and no stalement to any other class. Scourge is OP but can be shut down easily by ranger. Which class can counter Mirage - none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Mirage evasiveness' is fine. It's condi application isn't. Anything mirage related needs a shave in every area. I can easily stack anywhere from 8 to 25 stacks of confusion just by doing a basic axe combo. Nerf Jaunt, it's main purpose is disorienting, leaps, clone generation (with the trait) and mobility. It doesn't need 3 stacks of confusion on top of decent power damage. Nerf Axes of Symmetry. It doesn't need to do so high power damage, and the stacks of confusion could drop to 3 from 5, while increasing duration a bit. Nerf Mirage Thrust. This single ability outclasses any other mesmer offensive spec (or even most ambush skills). Power or condition, it gives mesmer chasing power, escaping power, easy clone generation, easy interrupts or stuns. I'm sorry to say but the daze needs to go. Give it another non-damaging condition if you must, but not CC. Lastly, I think at least one ability could do without the "breaks targeting" feature. Too many seem to have that, even mirror images, a vanilla utility, received this bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 > @"Razor.6392" said: > Mirage evasiveness' is fine. It's condi application isn't. Anything mirage related needs a shave in every area. I can easily stack anywhere from 8 to 25 stacks of confusion just by doing a basic axe combo. > > Nerf Jaunt, it's main purpose is disorienting, leaps, clone generation (with the trait) and mobility. It doesn't need 3 stacks of confusion on top of decent power damage. > > Nerf Axes of Symmetry. It doesn't need to do so high power damage, and the stacks of confusion could drop to 3 from 5, while increasing duration a bit. > > Nerf Mirage Thrust. This single ability outclasses any other mesmer offensive spec (or even most ambush skills). Power or condition, it gives mesmer chasing power, escaping power, easy clone generation, easy interrupts or stuns. I'm sorry to say but the daze needs to go. Give it another non-damaging condition if you must, but not CC. > > Lastly, I think at least one ability could do without the "breaks targeting" feature. Too many seem to have that, even mirror images, a vanilla utility, received this bonus. Mirage evasiveness is fine....bwahahahahahahaha....no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > Mirage evasiveness' is fine. It's condi application isn't. Anything mirage related needs a shave in every area. I can easily stack anywhere from 8 to 25 stacks of confusion just by doing a basic axe combo. > > > > Nerf Jaunt, it's main purpose is disorienting, leaps, clone generation (with the trait) and mobility. It doesn't need 3 stacks of confusion on top of decent power damage. > > > > Nerf Axes of Symmetry. It doesn't need to do so high power damage, and the stacks of confusion could drop to 3 from 5, while increasing duration a bit. > > > > Nerf Mirage Thrust. This single ability outclasses any other mesmer offensive spec (or even most ambush skills). Power or condition, it gives mesmer chasing power, escaping power, easy clone generation, easy interrupts or stuns. I'm sorry to say but the daze needs to go. Give it another non-damaging condition if you must, but not CC. > > > > Lastly, I think at least one ability could do without the "breaks targeting" feature. Too many seem to have that, even mirror images, a vanilla utility, received this bonus. > > Mirage evasiveness is fine....bwahahahahahahaha....no Their evasiveness is not what is killing you, it's the ridiculous condition application. Chrono has the sustain, mirage is supposed to be glassier so they need the evades. Maybe they could get toned down a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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