Elusive Mind

[Carighan.6758]

Why would you ever use Elusive Mind? You lose tons of DPS from not using either of the other two traits. And as far as I know there's few encounters where it is on you to cleanse yourself, and even in raids few things ever CC you much.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> How about giving us endurance back if we successfully evade an attack, the trait also gives jaunt a stun break on an internal cooldown?

> Balance numbers and cooldowns separate for PvP to avioid true perma doge.

 

Oh I quite like moving the stunbreak to using Jaunt. I don't think it would need an ICD at that point, as it would be 1 stunbreak every 20 seconds on average, with 1s ICD due to the CD between jaunt charges. That's still really strong as a stunbreak, but significantly more balanced than what it currently is.

 

@"Carighan.6758" EM is definitely a PvP/WvW trait. It makes you almost immune to hard CC, especially if you carry blink and another stunbreak on your bar.

[Jinks.2057]

20 sec ICD

 

Honestly this trait has no business being in the game. Mirage is extremely broken and OP.

[Simonoly.4352]

It could be worse. Elusive Mind could be like one of the many traits on other classes that automatically breaks stun for you or just gives you stability for sort of..existing and maybe even does some damage.

 

At first I was pretty much on board with "Elusive Mind is super OP" but the more I play my other classes that have CC immunity coming out of their ears, the less on board I am with an Elusive Mind nerf.

 

I've actually stopped using it now. Blink + signet of Midnight is enough stunbreaks. Then just taking Mantra of Resolve provides you with a ton of condi clear now. I like that there's build flexibility with Elusive Mind - if I want to take some more interesting utilities other than the standard two stunbreaks to mix things up I can still at least expend my endurance for breaking stun. Although relying on Elusive Mind as a sole source of stunbreak is quite risky.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Simonoly.4352" said:

> It could be worse. Elusive Mind could be like one of the many traits on other classes that automatically breaks stun for you or just gives you stability for sort of..existing and maybe even does some damage.

>

> At first I was pretty much on board with "Elusive Mind is super OP" but the more I play my other classes that have CC immunity coming out of their ears, the less on board I am with an Elusive Mind nerf.

>

> I've actually stopped using it now. Blink + signet of Midnight is enough stunbreaks. Then just taking Mantra of Resolve provides you with a ton of condi clear now. I like that there's build flexibility with Elusive Mind - if I want to take some more interesting utilities other than the standard two stunbreaks to mix things up I can still at least expend my endurance for breaking stun. Although relying on Elusive Mind as a sole source of stunbreak is quite risky.

 

Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

 

Compare EM to HoT specs and how much resistance to CC they have. Its leagues ahead. And remember that HoT specs, even after being toned down significantly, are still better than core specs are for the most part. Just because PoF and some aspects of HoT specs are also ridiculously overpowered does not make EM balanced.

 

Look at it this way: EM offers a stunbreak and a condi cleanse. The condi cleanse is nice, and honestly fairly powerful but not strong enough to be a GM on its own. It also feels like nothing because of how many condis are spat out by all specs right now. The stunbreak is significantly more powerful. Most stunbreaks in GW2 are 25s CD+, with the majority being 30sec CDs or more afaik. These are skills, which should be stronger than individual traits that you can take. Even if vigor didn't exist in the game at all, elusive mind averages out to 1 stunbreak every 10 seconds. With permanent vigor, which mesmer can upkeep, it averages out to 1 stunbreak every 5 seconds. This ranges from 2.5 to 5+ times more stunbreaks per time period than any other stunbreak skill in the game. And its on a trait, that also has more tacked onto it.

 

Yes, if played properly a mirage does not need EM to avoid being stunlocked, since clever use of the other stunbreaks on the bar, along with positioning and mirage cloak to evade stuns, will make you nearly immune to stuns in the first place. So already the need for this trait is pulled into question anyway, but then we get it anyway and its far stronger than any stunbreak that exists in the game. How can you honestly claim that's balanced?

 

Are specs in the game throwing out entirely too much hard CC at the moment? OhYes! Absolutely! That does not make EM balanced though. It just means that everything needs to be toned down.

[Heika.5403]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Simonoly.4352" said:

> > It could be worse. Elusive Mind could be like one of the many traits on other classes that automatically breaks stun for you or just gives you stability for sort of..existing and maybe even does some damage.

> >

> > At first I was pretty much on board with "Elusive Mind is super OP" but the more I play my other classes that have CC immunity coming out of their ears, the less on board I am with an Elusive Mind nerf.

> >

> > I've actually stopped using it now. Blink + signet of Midnight is enough stunbreaks. Then just taking Mantra of Resolve provides you with a ton of condi clear now. I like that there's build flexibility with Elusive Mind - if I want to take some more interesting utilities other than the standard two stunbreaks to mix things up I can still at least expend my endurance for breaking stun. Although relying on Elusive Mind as a sole source of stunbreak is quite risky.

>

> Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

>

> Compare EM to HoT specs and how much resistance to CC they have. Its leagues ahead. And remember that HoT specs, even after being toned down significantly, are still better than core specs are for the most part. Just because PoF and some aspects of HoT specs are also ridiculously overpowered does not make EM balanced.

>

> Look at it this way: EM offers a stunbreak and a condi cleanse. The condi cleanse is nice, and honestly fairly powerful but not strong enough to be a GM on its own. It also feels like nothing because of how many condis are spat out by all specs right now. The stunbreak is significantly more powerful. Most stunbreaks in GW2 are 25s CD+, with the majority being 30sec CDs or more afaik. These are skills, which should be stronger than individual traits that you can take. Even if vigor didn't exist in the game at all, elusive mind averages out to 1 stunbreak every 10 seconds. With permanent vigor, which mesmer can upkeep, it averages out to 1 stunbreak every 5 seconds. This ranges from 2.5 to 5+ times more stunbreaks per time period than any other stunbreak skill in the game. And its on a trait, that also has more tacked onto it.

>

> Yes, if played properly a mirage does not need EM to avoid being stunlocked, since clever use of the other stunbreaks on the bar, along with positioning and mirage cloak to evade stuns, will make you nearly immune to stuns in the first place. So already the need for this trait is pulled into question anyway, but then we get it anyway and its far stronger than any stunbreak that exists in the game. How can you honestly claim that's balanced?

>

> Are specs in the game throwing out entirely too much hard CC at the moment? OhYes! Absolutely! That does not make EM balanced though. It just means that everything needs to be toned down.

 

In that case they should change or tone down all neccesary skills and traits of all professions together. Not nerf or change Elusive Mind and then, someday, perhaps... others at similar level or antagonists, etc. Because I read that story before. Stop being the scapegoat forever. If concessions are made, compensations must also be demanded, unless there are no compensations for anyone.

[OriOri.8724]

I absolutely agree @"Heika.5403" every spec has a lot of things that need to be toned down significantly. For Mirage, EM and pure spam from IH ambush attacks are the biggest offenders in my opinion. But also look at the scale of balance patches that we get. We will never get a balance patch that touches everything at once on all specs. So to say "It should be nerfed, but not until everything else is nerfed alongside if", when people that play other professions are saying the same thing about the OP shit in their professions, you are all but ensuring that it will never be touched by ANet even though it needs to be.

[Genesis.5169]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> I absolutely agree @"Heika.5403" every spec has a lot of things that need to be toned down significantly. For Mirage, EM and pure spam from IH ambush attacks are the biggest offenders in my opinion. But also look at the scale of balance patches that we get. We will never get a balance patch that touches everything at once on all specs. So to say "It should be nerfed, but not until everything else is nerfed alongside if", when people that play other professions are saying the same thing about the OP kitten in their professions, you are all but ensuring that it will never be touched by ANet even though it needs to be.

 

Define spam please.

[Windwalker.7421]

Of all the things that need to be toned down, this is at or near the bottom of the list. I'm not seeing EM blatantly carrying/winning any sPvP games. In that regard, Portal is still 10 times more in need of toning down then EM.

 

I really don't get why Mesmers always seem to parade for nerfs to their own class. I've watched this junk time and again over the years, and it's always ended with Mesmers getting beat over the head with a nerf bat so bad, they don't wake up from it for about 6-9 months. It's bad enough that many players simply hate the Mesmer profession, always have, and will troll for nerfs for no reason at all.

 

I'm all for game balance and all, but EM is an entirely selfish/individual trait on a class/build that has fairly minimal impact in team fights as compared to many other far more team-friendly professions. Mirage is a very selfish Elite with almost no team utility of any kind aside from ofc the usual Porta. Much like Thieves, it's all about single-target damage output and mobility and **yes**, being HARD to nail down. Take that away and you're going to get this Elite trashed once they also get around to clipping Condition damage output, etc.

 

Please get over yourself and be careful what you ask for!

 

Starting any discussion with an "exvitation" for opposition voices to take part, is about the lamest thing I've ever seen you post OriOri. I'm really kinda disappointed by that remark, because I always considered you level-headed poster.

 

Reminds me of the catchy lyrics of a song I keep hearing on the radio lately...

 

"You are not right. You're just self-righteous..."

 

[viquing.8254]

@"OriOri.8724" : if you and some people in this post can stop posting messages like "I think that so it **must** be" It would be cool.

 

>It needs to be changed. If you can't see that then I'm not at all sorry to say that you won't be contributing anything of value to this discussion.

How can you hope to have a constructive post with a mega closed first one-side oriented sentence ?

1) affirmation.

2) if you didn't agree to the affirmation, you are a noob slug.

 

----

Then,

The majority of posts here seems to tell that the break-stunt effect on EM is a problem. Or :

* Mirage can evade during CC even without it and majority of CC last 1 sec or less.( so the evade time.)

So why did you thing that it will resolve any whines ?

 

A nerf to EM will probably lead to 20% longer condi and bleed on evade = more whine on condiburst with a much more hit & run gameplay some people are complaining about.

 

>@Carighan.6758 EM is definitely a PvP/WvW trait. It makes you almost immune to hard CC, especially if you carry blink and another stunbreak on your bar.

If 50% hard CC weren't from passives proc...

 

>Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

It's not Elusive Mind who is OP but the evade when we want who is core elite mechanic.

Response like this end to : we fight against powercreep with no tools.

Like, hey they nerf on death clones (who probably was the best mistake done to the profession regards to the class mechanic.) but today you can see near every base profession (base = exlued elite spec.) who has much more powerfull cheesy passives on evade effects.

And I can do easily 300 lines on why on death traits was removed based on a misundertanding of the problem on what people consider passives. (And why the forum's well thinking mesmers who all cry for this nerf aren't playing anymore.)

 

You take exactly the same direction, and even if you remove EM (and I can live without.), people will complain even more about the condi spam hit&run gameplay because mirages will take less risks to go into sustain fight.

 

[Simonoly.4352]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

 

> Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

 

I think it's perfectly rational to consider the potency of EM in relation to everything else that is present in the game that is thematically similar. What is OP or not, and therefore cannot be compared against, is neither here nor there in this game ever since the Specialisation patch hit back in 2015 when almost everything became overloaded anyway. Of course everything needs to be toned down, but it won't so we just have to accept the state of the game and we carry on our discussions on balance issues considering everything that is present.

 

Anyway...

 

@"viquing.8254" You've raised some interesting points there. Being able to evade whilst CC'd is where I'm personally finding a lot of the potency to come from now. Shield bash from an A/Sh Warrior into Eviscerate...I just always get to dodge the eviscerate anyway. It also looks badass when you evade a powerful attack whilst CC'd it's when I feel the most...Miragey :) Also your clones activating their Ambushes whilst your CC'd feels great too.

 

The clone death fiasco was such a travesty. So much misunderstanding from everything, including notoriously an Anet employee. It was so weird.

 

 

 

 

[Kiroshima.8497]

This trait is broken conceptually, like a stun break every 10-5 seconds (worst to best scenario) is probably the most broken thing in the game. There is 0 point in setup abilities (not discounting how setup into burst is in a terrible state at the moment aka Warrior Mace MH for example), and that assumes you even landed the hit on an smart, evade spamming mirage.

 

On the other hand, there's a lot of really high offense, coming from both sides of the damage spectrum. The condi removal should probably be moved to the Renewing Oasis, although reworked slightly. Instead of incoming duration is reduced, why not use a condition version of alacrity (albeit defensive). Conditions will tick down faster without doing the damage while you have Mirage Cloak/Regen/Whatever.

 

As for the stun break, move it to skills instead. How about: Clone skills break stun and detarget. While the utility versions already do this, this can help the rest become defensive tools. Or Phantasms, but not both. Or like, whenever you break stun successfully (no longer break stun on dodge), use Illusionary Ambush (no icd). That's pretty elusive and fufills the hard to pin down type of mirage. One moment you're there, the next you're not.

[zealex.9410]

How about Ellusive mind makes mirrors move towards you and upon arival they remove condis and aply the dodge effect.

 

The speed which mirrors move towards you depends on your hp an how high low you are and if you are under some cc effect or not.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> How about Ellusive mind makes mirrors move towards you and upon arival they remove condis and aply the dodge effect.

>

> The speed which mirrors move towards you depends on your hp an how high low you are and if you are under some cc effect or not.

A trait which basicly put giant arrows pointing toward the mesmer while going "MESMER IS HERE, THIS DIRECTION, COME I WILL SHOW YOU, LOOK HE HAS LOW HP HURRY WITH ME, FASTER" sounds like an amazing trait everyone will enjoy.

 

Either way, in WvW and roaming with elusive mind I still cant get good spellbreakers below 80% hp before they stun me and take 10K hp off with an arcing slice or alternativly block their way to a win, while being completely immune to CC in return.

 

So a nerf wouldnt really matter meh.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > How about Ellusive mind makes mirrors move towards you and upon arival they remove condis and aply the dodge effect.

> >

> > The speed which mirrors move towards you depends on your hp an how high low you are and if you are under some cc effect or not.

> A trait which basicly put giant arrows pointing toward the mesmer while going "MESMER IS HERE, THIS DIRECTION, COME I WILL SHOW YOU, LOOK HE HAS LOW HP HURRY WITH ME, FASTER" sounds like an amazing trait everyone will enjoy.

>

> Either way, in WvW and roaming with elusive mind I still cant get good spellbreakers below 80% hp before they stun me and take 10K hp off with an arcing slice or alternativly block their way to a win, while being completely immune to CC in return.

>

> So a nerf wouldnt really matter meh.

 

Yeah because in a mid point effect fest fight mesmer will be the easiest thing to see.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"Kiroshima.8497" said:

> This trait is broken conceptually, like a stun break every 10-5 seconds (worst to best scenario) is probably the most broken thing in the game. There is 0 point in setup abilities (not discounting how setup into burst is in a terrible state at the moment aka Warrior Mace MH for example), and that assumes you even landed the hit on an smart, evade spamming mirage.

>

> On the other hand, there's a lot of really high offense, coming from both sides of the damage spectrum. The condi removal should probably be moved to the Renewing Oasis, although reworked slightly. Instead of incoming duration is reduced, why not use a condition version of alacrity (albeit defensive). Conditions will tick down faster without doing the damage while you have Mirage Cloak/Regen/Whatever.

>

> As for the stun break, move it to skills instead. How about: Clone skills break stun and detarget. While the utility versions already do this, this can help the rest become defensive tools. Or Phantasms, but not both. Or like, whenever you break stun successfully (no longer break stun on dodge), use Illusionary Ambush (no icd). That's pretty elusive and fufills the hard to pin down type of mirage. One moment you're there, the next you're not.

 

Putting it on clone skills would actually be worse balance wise, double traited axe clone skills has 2 charges and about a 5-6 second cooldown. I like the use Illusionary Ambush idea but I feel like it'd be disorienting in practice.

[Kiroshima.8497]

Axe 2 isn't an evade by default though, which means you may have stun broken, but you're still susceptible to the following damage. Elusive Mind gets a lot of power by combining damage avoidance with the stun break, since many CC's are typically followed by damage. Also, traited axes does mean giving up extra mirrors (which is more ambush/dodge time), and even then it's still higher than a full vigor + dodge food stack.

 

Traited Axe is 20%, bringing 8 to 6.4. Dodge food + vigor is 90% regen, which means you get about 9.5 stamina per second, so about every 5.2 seconds you can break stun with the current Elusive Mind. Although this doesn't account for Sigil of Energy, which is an effective 5 stamina per second in WvW/PvE (50 per 10), or 2.5 if you only use it on 1 weapon. But even that makes it so you have a good minimum of 12 stamina per second, which means you could actually stun break every 4.1 seconds if you optimize your weapon swaps, even lower if you take double energy sigils (1 per weapon set).

 

So yeah, I'm not too concerned about traited axes being a stun break since it's basically unreduceable at that point, locks you into a 3/4 cast time skill with no evade. Against ranged enemies, using axe 2 is almost asking to get punished (say a GS mesmer or Longbow Soul Beast), forcing you to use a clone skill AND dodges to avoid the following burst, instead of just 1 dodge then do w/e you want in your evade time.

 

Honestly, the strongest clone stun break would probably be Staff 2, since it is instant cast, ports you away from your enemies (always good), summons a clone consistently (only needs a range check), and has a low cooldown when double traited (chaos/illusions).

 

EDIT: Math

[flog.3485]

Just make the effect of elusive mind trigger only when the endurance bar is full.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

It's only op on condi... on power mirage you are squishy as hell, one hit and you're down at least 50% hp

If you are a wvw player and elusive mind gets nerfed scourges main weakness will be removed as I guarentee no one will be playing power mirage and more people will play scourge.

Condi Mesmer needs tuning down.

[Genesis.5169]

EM does not need a nerf, Because more 60% of the time we are not using EM to cleanse and stun break. Let me restate this one time, EM turns our dodge into three tools one button which makes it a crazy important resource if we burn a dodge.

 

These tools are Condition Cleanse.

Stun break.

Dodge.

 

All of these generally do not happen at the same time on you so when use a dodge and you have EM you are affectively paying a huge cost every time your not under all 3 of those affects. Mesmers aren't exactly tanky without CD's and distortion ready and Condition Mirages have WAY less access to distortion then power destruction of EM is the destruction of condition mesmers, and i'm sure plenty of people on the forums would love that instead of learning to fight them.

 

And i'm quite certain many of the mesmers advocating for this has no idea how little defenses Condition Mirages have with out EM.

[flog.3485]

The problem of elusive mind is not that it is too much powerful but rather that is too much spammable imo. The cost for activating this effect is too low and the problem is that being able to do some good damages while evading is already strong enough without needing a stun break and condition cleanse on top of it.

 

This situation kinds of remind me of how druids worked at HoT release: the idea that they could run heaavy damage on top of good heals witout having to invest in healing in terms of stats.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Simonoly.4352" said:

> > It could be worse. Elusive Mind could be like one of the many traits on other classes that automatically breaks stun for you or just gives you stability for sort of..existing and maybe even does some damage.

> >

> > At first I was pretty much on board with "Elusive Mind is super OP" but the more I play my other classes that have CC immunity coming out of their ears, the less on board I am with an Elusive Mind nerf.

> >

> > I've actually stopped using it now. Blink + signet of Midnight is enough stunbreaks. Then just taking Mantra of Resolve provides you with a ton of condi clear now. I like that there's build flexibility with Elusive Mind - if I want to take some more interesting utilities other than the standard two stunbreaks to mix things up I can still at least expend my endurance for breaking stun. Although relying on Elusive Mind as a sole source of stunbreak is quite risky.

>

> Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

>

> Compare EM to HoT specs and how much resistance to CC they have. Its leagues ahead. And remember that HoT specs, even after being toned down significantly, are still better than core specs are for the most part. Just because PoF and some aspects of HoT specs are also ridiculously overpowered does not make EM balanced.

>

> Look at it this way: EM offers a stunbreak and a condi cleanse. The condi cleanse is nice, and honestly fairly powerful but not strong enough to be a GM on its own. It also feels like nothing because of how many condis are spat out by all specs right now. The stunbreak is significantly more powerful. Most stunbreaks in GW2 are 25s CD+, with the majority being 30sec CDs or more afaik. These are skills, which should be stronger than individual traits that you can take. Even if vigor didn't exist in the game at all, elusive mind averages out to 1 stunbreak every 10 seconds. With permanent vigor, which mesmer can upkeep, it averages out to 1 stunbreak every 5 seconds. This ranges from 2.5 to 5+ times more stunbreaks per time period than any other stunbreak skill in the game. And its on a trait, that also has more tacked onto it.

>

> Yes, if played properly a mirage does not need EM to avoid being stunlocked, since clever use of the other stunbreaks on the bar, along with positioning and mirage cloak to evade stuns, will make you nearly immune to stuns in the first place. So already the need for this trait is pulled into question anyway, but then we get it anyway and its far stronger than any stunbreak that exists in the game. How can you honestly claim that's balanced?

>

> Are specs in the game throwing out entirely too much hard CC at the moment? OhYes! Absolutely! That does not make EM balanced though. It just means that everything needs to be toned down.

 

The funny thing is you realized the bigger picture and have gotten nothing but grief for it here.

 

EM needs to go.

[Xstein.2187]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Simonoly.4352" said:

> > > It could be worse. Elusive Mind could be like one of the many traits on other classes that automatically breaks stun for you or just gives you stability for sort of..existing and maybe even does some damage.

> > >

> > > At first I was pretty much on board with "Elusive Mind is super OP" but the more I play my other classes that have CC immunity coming out of their ears, the less on board I am with an Elusive Mind nerf.

> > >

> > > I've actually stopped using it now. Blink + signet of Midnight is enough stunbreaks. Then just taking Mantra of Resolve provides you with a ton of condi clear now. I like that there's build flexibility with Elusive Mind - if I want to take some more interesting utilities other than the standard two stunbreaks to mix things up I can still at least expend my endurance for breaking stun. Although relying on Elusive Mind as a sole source of stunbreak is quite risky.

> >

> > Soooo arguments like this really get to me. Saying that "Elusive Mind isn't OP because its on the same level as other things that are just as OP" isn't a rational argument. EM is absolutely atrocious levels of powercreep.

> >

> > Compare EM to HoT specs and how much resistance to CC they have. Its leagues ahead. And remember that HoT specs, even after being toned down significantly, are still better than core specs are for the most part. Just because PoF and some aspects of HoT specs are also ridiculously overpowered does not make EM balanced.

> >

> > Look at it this way: EM offers a stunbreak and a condi cleanse. The condi cleanse is nice, and honestly fairly powerful but not strong enough to be a GM on its own. It also feels like nothing because of how many condis are spat out by all specs right now. The stunbreak is significantly more powerful. Most stunbreaks in GW2 are 25s CD+, with the majority being 30sec CDs or more afaik. These are skills, which should be stronger than individual traits that you can take. Even if vigor didn't exist in the game at all, elusive mind averages out to 1 stunbreak every 10 seconds. With permanent vigor, which mesmer can upkeep, it averages out to 1 stunbreak every 5 seconds. This ranges from 2.5 to 5+ times more stunbreaks per time period than any other stunbreak skill in the game. And its on a trait, that also has more tacked onto it.

> >

> > Yes, if played properly a mirage does not need EM to avoid being stunlocked, since clever use of the other stunbreaks on the bar, along with positioning and mirage cloak to evade stuns, will make you nearly immune to stuns in the first place. So already the need for this trait is pulled into question anyway, but then we get it anyway and its far stronger than any stunbreak that exists in the game. How can you honestly claim that's balanced?

> >

> > Are specs in the game throwing out entirely too much hard CC at the moment? OhYes! Absolutely! That does not make EM balanced though. It just meaTns that everything needs to be toned down.

>

> The funny thing is you realized the bigger picture and have gotten nothing but grief for it here.

>

> EM needs to go.

 

1. Seeing a 'bigger picture' does not in any way mean you are correct. For example, the world would undoubtedly be a much better place if all countries did not waste money on war or go to war with each other, just like gw2 would be much better if power creep was cut down across to board back to before HoT. However, just like individual countries shouldn't just stop spending money on their armies with the mere belief that other countries will do the same, we shouldn't expect Anet to do the same with power creep. After all, empirical evidence shows the contrary, weather we like it or not. There has been power creep with HoT and there has been power creep with PoF. With HoT, mesmer's have gone from applying 11 sec of quickness every 180 sec before HoT to 180 sec of quickness every 180 seconds today (100%). Thats 16.36 X as much quickness!! Now, they could have severely nerfed it closer to pre HoT levels, but what did they do? They gave a bunch of quickness to Guardians with the next Expansion! Yes, it would be nice if power creep did not exist. However, history does not show us this. Why would you hold beliefs contrary to empirical observations? . . . Thinking something should be true does not change these observations.

 

2. @ OriOri

"Even if vigor didn't exist in the game at all, elusive mind averages out to 1 stunbreak every 10 seconds. With permanent vigor, which mesmer can upkeep, it averages out to 1 stunbreak every 5 seconds."

Perhaps the closest thing resembling evasive mind is Empty Vessel from revenants. "Invoking a legend will now break stuns". Legend swapping has a 10 second cool down AFTER switching away from a legend. This makes it very similar to elusive mind and dodging. Yes, you can get vigor. However, we would be fooling ourselves if we didn't recognize that some other differences are:

 

1. Empty Vessel is Minor Grandmaster trait (you don't have to choose it among options) while Elusive Mind is a MAJOR Grandmaster trait (you have to choose it/draw backs).

2. There has been power creep over time with each expansion weather we like it or not, PoF is no exception.

3. I believe vigor is 50% increased endurance regeneration, raising regeneration from 5% per sec to 7.5% per second. Or a dodge/stun break every 10 seconds to one every 6.666 seconds, not every 5 seconds. PLUS, we have to make the assumption of perma vigor. Assumptions make an ass out of you and me.

4. Empty Vessel is in a base trait line and NOT in an elite specialization trait line. Multiple elite specializations cannot be used with each other. This makes Empty Vessel far more versatile with different builds going into the future with upcoming expansions.

 

I suppose what I am getting at all together is that we shouldn't be trying to convince ourselves that Elusive Mind is worse than it really is. That's just completely asinine. Yet, thats exactly what the OP did when he compared elusive mind (at a 5 sec stun break?) to 25 or 30 sec cool downs (instead or choosing better comparisons like Empty Vessel). Why he did this? I don't know.

 

p.s. And not that it really matters, but a mesmer main trying to make a trait look worse than it really is just seems a little wonky to me o_O

[Arlette.9684]

My thoughts on the subject, Elusive Mind will be removed and completely redesigned into something else. Sometimes it’s easier to scrap the idea and try something else.

[Retsuko.2035]

What if you fight someone that doesn't do any hard cc's ? the stun break on elusive mind will be useless. Surely you can use it still to cleanse, but lets say you get immobilized, you need to dodge to trigger the cleanse instead of using the dodge what it's originally intended for (avoid damage), making you more vulnerable.

 

I think people really forget about the repercussions of using a dodge and only look at the advantage elusive mind brings, while people forget that elusive mind can be "over used", putting more risk at the mirage. But i guess people still need to figure out how to fight a mirage.