IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > - snip - > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. Maximizing performance is an important part of games for me. However, I've never liked the idea that the seemingly sole point of playing the game was to chase that performance though getting better stats. I'd rather pursue performance via developing skill in build creation and practice. In PnP games, I prefer Champions (wherein power is intrinsic to the character) than D&D (wherein power is extrinsic, being mostly centered around one's magic items). Bringing my attitude to a game like WoW would be stupid. However, performance in the original GW was much more intrinsic, and gear acquisition was easy, so bringing that attitude to the GW franchise used to make sense. Over the years, I've watched this game become less like the original, and more like WoW, a game I played and learned to despise. Further steps away would kill my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avigrus.2871 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Avigrus.2871" said: > > If there were stat increases, Legendary Weapons would need to be acquirable in PvP & WvW as well. > > Legendary Armor and back Items are already in PvP which boggles my mind.. because PvP uses amulets, so has no use for legendary gear (or any gear for that matter) at all on any level. > > WvW also has Legendary gear (Armor/Back) and weapons require the Gift of Battle (WvW reward track excursive item) > > So..your request has been granted. I said Legendary Weapons. Armour / back are available, but not weapons. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > - snip - > > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. > > Maximizing performance is an important part of games for me. However, I've never liked the idea that the seemingly sole point of playing the game was to chase that performance though getting better stats. I'd rather pursue performance via developing skill in build creation and practice. In PnP games, I prefer Champions (wherein power is intrinsic to the character) than D&D (wherein power is extrinsic, being mostly centered around one's magic items). Bringing my attitude to a game like WoW would be stupid. However, performance in the original GW was much more intrinsic, and gear acquisition was easy, so bringing that attitude to the GW franchise used to make sense. Over the years, I've watched this game become less like the original, and more like WoW, a game I played and learned to despise. Further steps away would kill my interest. I can respect this, I quit a previous MMO, over their failure to handle loot and gear properly, mainly they kept revising how rare drop raid gear functioned and it just killed the game for me. destroyed my drive to go after gear.. and since that game was all about rare drops and raids (no it was not WoW, I never played WoW and I never will), there was no reason to keep playing it. But, this is not a nerf, all existing gear is still going to be as good as it always was. The content does not change, what you have does not become ineffective. Let me ask you a different question. If they put in a second infusion slot into the legendary Weapons and Armor would that break the game for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > > - snip - > > > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > > > > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > > > > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. > > > > Maximizing performance is an important part of games for me. However, I've never liked the idea that the seemingly sole point of playing the game was to chase that performance though getting better stats. I'd rather pursue performance via developing skill in build creation and practice. In PnP games, I prefer Champions (wherein power is intrinsic to the character) than D&D (wherein power is extrinsic, being mostly centered around one's magic items). Bringing my attitude to a game like WoW would be stupid. However, performance in the original GW was much more intrinsic, and gear acquisition was easy, so bringing that attitude to the GW franchise used to make sense. Over the years, I've watched this game become less like the original, and more like WoW, a game I played and learned to despise. Further steps away would kill my interest. > > I can respect this, I quit a previous MMO, over their failure to handle loot and gear properly, mainly they kept revising how rare drop raid gear functioned and it just killed the game for me. destroyed my drive to go after gear.. and since that game was all about rare drops and raids (no it was not WoW, I never played WoW and I never will), there was no reason to keep playing it. > > But, this is not a nerf, all existing gear is still going to be as good as it always was. The content does not change, what you have does not become ineffective. > > Let me ask you a different question. If they put in a second infusion slot into the legendary Weapons and Armor would that break the game for you? What you dont seem to get is that lfg people will start demand more and more. Legendaries or kick will become the norm. They dont care that some people can do the things in white/green gear they want as high % chance to do the content they set up their groups for and will ask for the rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > Actually, you don't have to get it. You have to provide a reason why it's worth ANet's time to upend the status quo. It's up to those wishing for a change to show that it's better for the community overall. > > If the justification is "but people are quitting the game now over the stats being equal" then it's also important to establish whether — and why — anyone might quit if things were changed. However, since it hasn't been established that any significant number of folks are leaving the game because legendary stats are the same as ascended, I think it the "please change" argument would be strengthened by dropping the point altogether. > > tl;dr it's up to proponents to justify the proposed change Fair point. But.. work with this. if they went though the effort to put in raids, to attract that kind of player, it would seem prudent to move the whole game into that direction, and embrace what those kinds of players want, which is of course better rewards for their efforts, otherwise, they all they have is this Half-Assed congregate of bad idea mixes that don't really appease anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > > > - snip - > > > > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > > > > > > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > > > > > > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. > > > > > > Maximizing performance is an important part of games for me. However, I've never liked the idea that the seemingly sole point of playing the game was to chase that performance though getting better stats. I'd rather pursue performance via developing skill in build creation and practice. In PnP games, I prefer Champions (wherein power is intrinsic to the character) than D&D (wherein power is extrinsic, being mostly centered around one's magic items). Bringing my attitude to a game like WoW would be stupid. However, performance in the original GW was much more intrinsic, and gear acquisition was easy, so bringing that attitude to the GW franchise used to make sense. Over the years, I've watched this game become less like the original, and more like WoW, a game I played and learned to despise. Further steps away would kill my interest. > > > > I can respect this, I quit a previous MMO, over their failure to handle loot and gear properly, mainly they kept revising how rare drop raid gear functioned and it just killed the game for me. destroyed my drive to go after gear.. and since that game was all about rare drops and raids (no it was not WoW, I never played WoW and I never will), there was no reason to keep playing it. > > > > But, this is not a nerf, all existing gear is still going to be as good as it always was. The content does not change, what you have does not become ineffective. > > > > Let me ask you a different question. If they put in a second infusion slot into the legendary Weapons and Armor would that break the game for you? > > What you dont seem to get is that lfg people will start demand more and more. > Legendaries or kick will become the norm. > They dont care that some people can do the things in white/green gear they want as high % chance to do the content they set up their groups for and will ask for the rediculous. a games development can't be held hostage buy how idiots act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit? > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > In my case, yes, I would. I've bent as far as I'm going to on BiS. I don't give a kitten about raids or fractals, and HoT was fine. > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > I would as well. > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Yes. I was already on the edge when they introduced ascended, and was seriously considering it when the idea of upping the exotic-ascended difference got leaked. And i like the game far less now than i did then. > > And (as you probably know) i'm not a Raids fan at all. > > > > It's about no gear grind, but also about _BiS gear set being affordable_. Ascended are already a bit on the costly side. Legendary set is definitely not something that can be rightly called "affordable" (even if there are players that could probably afford it) - and that's when considering a single set for a single char. > > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > Let me use an example, I have exactly 2 characters with Ascended gear, only one that has the weapons as well (Mainly due to needing AR for fractals, an while I have never done above a T3, I have 150 AR just in case my better skilled guild mates need some comedy relief. > > But, see, I didn't go out and grind that gear because I needed "BiS" or even cared about such a thing.. I got the gear because I needed the AR infusions to do fractals. So,in that vein, unless it matters to the content you plan to do, I don't see what the motive is to need this gear to start with. I'm more then content to have my other characters be nowhere near as decked out, since none of them will be doing fractals. > > Now.. I said I had 2 toons.. so what about the second one..which is a good question, why do I have 2 in Ascended if I claim only one needed it?.. well.. as it turns out.. I learned that it was almost as huge a pain in the kitten to craft Cele as it was to craft WupWup, soo.. I just went to WupWup. Really that was the only reason, it was along the lines. if I have to trudge to hell to make this.. I might as well make the best and be done with it. > > Now, Arguably, I still don't have Bis gear, even if I have 150 AR, and Full Ascended, unless I also go though the effort to get a complete set of +5 stat infusions (or other Stat increasing Infusions, like Queen Bee or what have you) , because unless I do, I will be roughly.. I think.. something like 70 some odd stat, behind what would be the best gear I can get. Will I do this.. there is a better then good chance.. no I will not. > > Now, To put that in prospective, a full set of Knights Ascended Armor is only 52 stat points above Knights Exotic (guess which armor I made to know this! .. yes I looked it up in game). > > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. To begin with let me say that I fully understand that it would not mean as much to many, perhaps even most, players as it does to me. I dont fault others for not caring about BiS, but I do care. Although I have a level 80 of every profession only one, my ranger main, gets played to any significant degree. I spent more hours than I care to think about working to ensure that my main was outfitted in BiS gear. Until he was so geared the character felt incomplete, less satisfying to play than could have been the case. For me the fun in playing a character lies not as much in the process of building him up, but in him at his full capacity while developing my ability to play him to the best of my ability. Raising the stats on Legendary would render my prior efforts moot, to me, and would leave me with an incomplete and less satisfying character. I gave GW2 a second chance after the addition of ascended, although I did greatly reduce my spending on the game ($100 - $200 per month before to only buying expansions now). Were Legendaries to be buffed behond ascended stats i would not be able to justify giving the game a third chance at retaining me as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrusaderMichael.9245 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: No one will quit over legendaries actually hitting in a legendary way. Or having some extra power... or having to grind like heck in some long quest to imbue a legendary with such power. These "they'll quit" ideas come up whenever there's big change. Remember the "i'll quit if gw2 ever adds mounts to this game, if you want mounts, join WoW !!!" ...bet exactly zero people actually quit over this. The problem with legendaries is that it suits only the people that only care about pretty. Most guys I know, like functionally cool in a game, not just "extra pretty". They could have, and should have.... and SHOULD, appease both crowds. Not the crowd that says "but, I don't want more than just pretty (and stat changes), I'll quit if you make legendary items more powerful than something that costs 1/60 as much !!!!" That crowd, should be ignored completely. And should have from the very second legendaries were added to the game. This isn't about who might quit... it's about how many people already have quit over the years, because the ultimate thing to farm for here, was just pretty. I think people would come back to the game if they could farm for cool things that DO cool things, instead of "pretty things". NO one, is gonna come back, for more of the same pretty things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossaber.8934 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > I don't. But. I can't imagine it would be a large number, not after Raids, HoT, and Fractal upgrade. Think of this as a benchmark.. would you quit? > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > In my case, yes, I would. I've bent as far as I'm going to on BiS. I don't give a kitten about raids or fractals, and HoT was fine. > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > I would as well. > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Yes. I was already on the edge when they introduced ascended, and was seriously considering it when the idea of upping the exotic-ascended difference got leaked. And i like the game far less now than i did then. > > And (as you probably know) i'm not a Raids fan at all. > > > > It's about no gear grind, but also about _BiS gear set being affordable_. Ascended are already a bit on the costly side. Legendary set is definitely not something that can be rightly called "affordable" (even if there are players that could probably afford it) - and that's when considering a single set for a single char. > > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > Let me use an example, I have exactly 2 characters with Ascended gear, only one that has the weapons as well (Mainly due to needing AR for fractals, an while I have never done above a T3, I have 150 AR just in case my better skilled guild mates need some comedy relief. > > But, see, I didn't go out and grind that gear because I needed "BiS" or even cared about such a thing.. I got the gear because I needed the AR infusions to do fractals. So,in that vein, unless it matters to the content you plan to do, I don't see what the motive is to need this gear to start with. I'm more then content to have my other characters be nowhere near as decked out, since none of them will be doing fractals. > > Now.. I said I had 2 toons.. so what about the second one..which is a good question, why do I have 2 in Ascended if I claim only one needed it?.. well.. as it turns out.. I learned that it was almost as huge a pain in the kitten to craft Cele as it was to craft WupWup, soo.. I just went to WupWup. Really that was the only reason, it was along the lines. if I have to trudge to hell to make this.. I might as well make the best and be done with it. > > Now, Arguably, I still don't have Bis gear, even if I have 150 AR, and Full Ascended, unless I also go though the effort to get a complete set of +5 stat infusions (or other Stat increasing Infusions, like Queen Bee or what have you) , because unless I do, I will be roughly.. I think.. something like 70 some odd stat, behind what would be the best gear I can get. Will I do this.. there is a better then good chance.. no I will not. > > Now, To put that in prospective, a full set of Knights Ascended Armor is only 52 stat points above Knights Exotic (guess which armor I made to know this! .. yes I looked it up in game). > > Now, lets put in another factor, I don't understand why a paltry 52 stat points matters, when I know for a fact that people often do not use food (which can give well over +100 in a principal stat alone, as well as boons to other stats and abilities, clocking in some cases, +170 total stat points) or use the wrong food (eating whatever is available even if it's condition based food and you're playing a power based build) for Open World and sadly, often enough in WvW as well. > > So.. for the most part.. since most of us play very sub-optimally anyway (myself included).. what difference does it make that it would be worth quitting the game over if a full set of Legendary Armor is like 50 points more then Ascended.. when people are bypassing hundreds of stat points in infusions, food, utilities, potions, holiday treats (yes, Halloween Candy stacks with other buffs) on average every day? > > I am not saying you're wrong for doing so.. I just don't get the **Why**. Thank you! You have provided a very good point. Those extra stat are really doesn’t matter for game content, will not break the game, nor needed anyway. So why exactly do we ask anet to pay extra effort to rework something which is DOESN’T MATTER, nor NEEDED? There are indeed dire issues that the game is NEEDED, please, for things that doesn’t matter, let it go, will ya, pal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 CrusaderMichael.9245 Are you sure you dont just want to earn 200 gold per hour selling the legendaries you make if anet decideds to boost the power and make it uhm cool somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > > > Actually, you don't have to get it. You have to provide a reason why it's worth ANet's time to upend the status quo. It's up to those wishing for a change to show that it's better for the community overall. > > > > If the justification is "but people are quitting the game now over the stats being equal" then it's also important to establish whether — and why — anyone might quit if things were changed. However, since it hasn't been established that any significant number of folks are leaving the game because legendary stats are the same as ascended, I think it the "please change" argument would be strengthened by dropping the point altogether. > > > > tl;dr it's up to proponents to justify the proposed change > > Fair point. But.. work with this. if they went though the effort to put in raids, to attract that kind of player, it would seem prudent to move the whole game into that direction, and embrace what those kinds of players want, which is of course better rewards for their efforts, otherwise, they all they have is this kitten congregate of bad idea mixes that don't really appease anyone. Um, no. Raids are intended to attract a particular group to a particular part of the game. ANet has been clear that the goal has never been to change the entire nature of the game for everyone else too. In short, you haven't established that it's better for the existing community to add stats to legendaries beyond that of ascended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > No one will quit over legendaries actually hitting in a legendary way. > > Or having some extra power... or having to grind like heck in some long quest to imbue a legendary with such power. > > These "they'll quit" ideas come up whenever there's big change. > > Remember the "i'll quit if gw2 ever adds mounts to this game, if you want mounts, join WoW !!!" ...bet exactly zero people actually quit over this. > > The problem with legendaries is that it suits only the people that only care about pretty. > > Most guys I know, like functionally cool in a game, not just "extra pretty". > > They could have, and should have.... and SHOULD, appease both crowds. > > Not the crowd that says "but, I don't want more than just pretty (and stat changes), I'll quit if you make legendary items more powerful than something that costs 1/60 as much !!!!" > > That crowd, should be ignored completely. > > And should have from the very second legendaries were added to the game. > > This isn't about who might quit... it's about how many people already have quit over the years, because the ultimate thing to farm for here, was just pretty. > > I think people would come back to the game if they could farm for cool things that DO cool things, instead of "pretty things". > > NO one, is gonna come back, for more of the same pretty things. You are mistaken. We all bought a game whose devs said, before launch, that items like legendaries would not have better stats. It was a selling point of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > > I can't even imagine how many players have quit because the ultimate grind item, legendary weapons, turned out to be just ascended gear that looked pretty. > Try to imagine how many would quit if the optional grind became important in any way|shape|form other than cosmetic. > Me and many people I know would. I'm struggling to get just one ascended armour piece. Just one. I don't want to go through that for legendary. I don't like how the legendaries look/act, and the benefit of the stat change doesn't pull me in wasting that much time to get the gear. There ARE people who like how the weapons/armour of the legendaries look. Some like it just to show off. Let them have their fun. I just want what I like how something looks (I don't care if I got the skin at level 5 or level 50) and having the best stats my class/char can get. If I have to take years to get one single legendary piece because they made them stronger than ascended, I'm gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToPNoP.2493 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 What I thought would be good for legendries is one more infusion slot for armor and 2 more for each weapon set. But, it is definitely better as is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzi.8273 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > No one will quit over legendaries actually hitting in a legendary way. Bold statement. Speaking for the entire gw2 player base are you? I beg to differ. There are many WvW folks that would consider leaving with this new power creep. especially when the 'elite' pve'ers come in with their shiney new gear and can win without skill. Myself included. You're telling every WvWer that they have to grind pvp/raids/crafting/etc for ~6-12 months for 1 set of gear just so they can then, after a year, be on equal footing for everyone else? This would gut wvW even more, as new players would not be able to compete (they can barely compete now). Not to mention the ones that just want to play WvW and not have to Pve to get mats/gold to get crafting up to make these stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > > No one will quit over legendaries actually hitting in a legendary way. That's your personal opinion and it's backed with absolutely 0 evidence or constructive argumentation from your side. All you said is you disagree with a certain type of player because they are wrong and you are right. What you are conveniently ignoring is the established gear progression both for over 5 years in game as well as in one of GW2 central promises. Breaking with this is not something a developer would do lightly. > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > I think people would come back to the game if they could farm for cool things that DO cool things, instead of "pretty things". What you think is irrelevant. Even if this were true, which many would dispute since it literally makes GW2 similar to almost all the other MMOs on the market thus removing its USP, it's still a huge risk to alienate a huge part of the existing player base. The simple answer here is: you are an outlier who is dissatisfied with a part of this games design and would probably be better off leaving for a different game. > @"CrusaderMichael.9245" said: > NO one, is gonna come back, for more of the same pretty things. Yet people come back regularly and GW2 is considered among the top 5 best MMORPGs available. I guess arenanet must be doing something right if the game is going this strong after 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > > > > > Actually, you don't have to get it. You have to provide a reason why it's worth ANet's time to upend the status quo. It's up to those wishing for a change to show that it's better for the community overall. > > > > > > If the justification is "but people are quitting the game now over the stats being equal" then it's also important to establish whether — and why — anyone might quit if things were changed. However, since it hasn't been established that any significant number of folks are leaving the game because legendary stats are the same as ascended, I think it the "please change" argument would be strengthened by dropping the point altogether. > > > > > > tl;dr it's up to proponents to justify the proposed change > > > > Fair point. But.. work with this. if they went though the effort to put in raids, to attract that kind of player, it would seem prudent to move the whole game into that direction, and embrace what those kinds of players want, which is of course better rewards for their efforts, otherwise, they all they have is this kitten congregate of bad idea mixes that don't really appease anyone. > > Um, no. Raids are intended to attract a particular group to a particular part of the game. **ANet has been clear that the goal has never been to change the entire nature of the game for everyone else too.** > Have they? Can you find this for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Ok, you all will have to forgive me, if I don't rally get what the problem is so much so that you all would quit of over this. > > > > > > > > Actually, you don't have to get it. You have to provide a reason why it's worth ANet's time to upend the status quo. It's up to those wishing for a change to show that it's better for the community overall. > > > > > > > > If the justification is "but people are quitting the game now over the stats being equal" then it's also important to establish whether — and why — anyone might quit if things were changed. However, since it hasn't been established that any significant number of folks are leaving the game because legendary stats are the same as ascended, I think it the "please change" argument would be strengthened by dropping the point altogether. > > > > > > > > tl;dr it's up to proponents to justify the proposed change > > > > > > Fair point. But.. work with this. if they went though the effort to put in raids, to attract that kind of player, it would seem prudent to move the whole game into that direction, and embrace what those kinds of players want, which is of course better rewards for their efforts, otherwise, they all they have is this kitten congregate of bad idea mixes that don't really appease anyone. > > > > Um, no. Raids are intended to attract a particular group to a particular part of the game. **ANet has been clear that the goal has never been to change the entire nature of the game for everyone else too.** > > > > Have they? > > Can you find this for me? > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/ Quote 1: > Raids are not about an endless gear grind to get tiers of gear to go tackle the next raid. Raids won’t become easier because a new tier of gear or a level-cap raise made them irrelevant. This is in line with their approach since almost the start of the game. No new gear tiers. Raids thus are not designed to have gear progression as requirement or central element to their design or approach. Quote 2: > It takes away the meaning of your victory when suddenly new tiers of gear or more powerful experience levels are introduced that leave a wasteland of raids in their wake. This again shows that no new gear or gear progression is intended. Again, raids are in line with the core of the game. Quote 3: > And we’re building them on top of our amazing combat and dynamic event systems to create a variety of difficult challenges that will require your raiding team to bring a high level of skill, strategy, and coordination in order to succeed. This is the part which separates raids from the rest of the game and makes them essentially require more dedication and organization compared to most other in game content. It does not mean that other in game content will change though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonLucas.4981 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 The only thing I want for legendary is more QoL changes. Be able to equip my legendaries in any of my characters at any time and not depend in a shared slot for that. Switch runes at any time *winks for you Anet* You know, things that make my life easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 [GW2 raids promo.](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/ "GW2 raids promo.") For those that didn't read it. > Raids in Guild Wars 2 are not about waiting to have fun. You don’t need to wait for your healer to get online. Our build-customization and weapon-swapping systems allow anyone to change their build to meet a particular challenge. And while a warrior might support a group differently than an elementalist would in terms of playstyle, our systems allow you to adjust your team’s composition and strategy to overcome any challenge. Then they went and put in the Druid/Chrono/PS trinity. So much for holding to their word on that one. Well, much like wanting "challenging" content.. I don't need to prove anything, it was requested by someone who is **Not me**. So Obviously people want this.. now, it's on all you to explain why it is a bad idea. Not on me to say why it is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > [GW2 raids promo.](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/ "GW2 raids promo.") > > For those that didn't read it. > > > Raids in Guild Wars 2 are not about waiting to have fun. You don’t need to wait for your healer to get online. Our build-customization and weapon-swapping systems allow anyone to change their build to meet a particular challenge. And while a warrior might support a group differently than an elementalist would in terms of playstyle, our systems allow you to adjust your team’s composition and strategy to overcome any challenge. > > Then they went and put in the Druid/Chrono/PS trinity. So much for holding to their word on that one. The point is that people don't have to wait for a particular class to show up. There are all sorts of ways to complete raids, including healing from people also providing DPS. Those who choose to restrict themselves to a specific comp are always going to have a tougher time getting a group together, just like those who insist on a minimum number of LI are likely to wait more than those who aren't. But more importantly: what does this have to do with whether it's good for the game to add stats to legendary weapons? (spoiler alert: it doesn't; this is a tangent from the original topic). > Well, much like wanting "challenging" content.. I don't need to prove anything, You do if you expect ANet to change their mind about their stance on stats for legendary gear. > it was requested by someone who is **Not me**. That's disingenuous. You've posted frequently in this thread now. That amounts to more support for the idea than the OP has offered. You might have started this to play the role of Devil's Advocate, but at this point, take ownership of the idea or try offering something new to the conversation beyond, "some people asked for it, so it must be good." > So Obviously people want this.. now, it's on all you to explain why it is a bad idea. No, no one has to explain why the status quo works. It's up to those who want to change things to offer a good reason. This change is going to cost ANet a lot: they have to figure out how much to change stats, have to change how they think of balancing in all game modes, and have to reconsider all sorts of rewards and recipes, to make sure there's economic balance as well. Additionally, it's going to cost them in trust & reputation (deservedly or not). Before they go through that trouble, there has to be some benefit that makes it worth the cost & effort. Just as any successful business does. So far, in this thread (and in the others I've seen), the closest anyone has gotten is to say (without evidence) that people are leaving the game because legendary = ascended stats and saying (also without evidence) that more people would pay for the game if ANet made this change. The second most common argument is, "but why would it be so bad," which isn't an argument at all. > Not on me to say why it is a good one. You took that job on by deciding to play Devil's Advocate without letting go. Why spend all the time on the thread if you don't actually have a reason for thinking this suggestion would improve the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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