A Plea For Dungeons.

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > \o i will sign petition for this :P when dungeon was a thing back in the good old days. it was truly fun. many guilds were doing them. now all you hear guild talking about is raids and fractal (among minority of people) and fractal is not something everyone does like in the old days almost everyone jump into dungeon to play.

>

> The reason for that? In the old days there wasn't much else beside dungeons. Now there is, and it's better gameplay, so dungeons are only run by newbies and players who need the tokens for something, be it legendary gift or runes.

 

But dungeons have so much potential look at what they did with Aether Path, hands down one of the best dungeons paths in the game.

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > but imagine 1 new dungeon each update with good reward farm like fractal..

> > >

> > > So how exactly would it differ from a new fractal?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If dungeons are made in addition to fractals then its just double the content. If dungeons and fractals are developed on rotation then they can make an instance with actual relevant story once in a while ~~without messing with their own lore if they still care about it~~.

>

> They are both instanced content. They both feature stories. I'd pick Arkk's story over the "let's make the supposedly famous ex-members of DE stop behaving like a bunch of children" story any time. Oasis has a nice lore story, although on this front Arah is doing pretty well too. My point is, there is no reason to develop two types of instanced content that do exactly the same, except one (FotM) is strictly superior to the other because it also features difficulty tiers so it can appeal to a wider group of players.

 

Those difficulty tiers don't make it more fun for some people unless its the challenge mode where things actually change. Mechanics and such.

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > > > but imagine 1 new dungeon each update with good reward farm like fractal..

> > > > >

> > > > > So how exactly would it differ from a new fractal?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > If dungeons are made in addition to fractals then its just double the content. If dungeons and fractals are developed on rotation then they can make an instance with actual relevant story once in a while ~~without messing with their own lore if they still care about it~~.

> > >

> > > My point is, there is no reason to develop two types of instanced content that do exactly the same, except one (FotM) is strictly superior to the other because it also features difficulty tiers so it can appeal to a wider group of players.

> >

> > Having more repeatable content is already big enough reason to do it.

> > Giving designers and writers an opportunity to do better boss fights and develop characters is another one.

>

> And **all** of that can be done in the FotM format. As evidenced by the fractal updates in the last year. We get better stories, boss fights that are leaps and bounds better and recurring characters/story arcs spanning over different instances.

 

Fractals are too short.

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > Well I do agree that the game has catered for wide variety of game modes for diff group of players..I do not know what is missing atm .. maybe its only the link to all..

> > I still think it's will be a dream if they give us a new expansion with 3 new maps and each with a dungeon expl for 5 men casual group instance or 10men casual squad instance and with open world map meta events.. mmm.. too good to be true right.. :p maybe many will not like that..

>

> I just dont see the differance with casual t1-2 fractals to dungeons tho.

> Just becouse you can do t4 why wouldent you do lower grades with your friends if they want to?

 

Fractals are quite content and with a good group higher tiers can be completed with ease. Unless challenge mode those take some skill which is fine. Raids can take some time to complete. I'm looking for middle of the ground length. That can still delivery some story and expand the game world. As I stated in the original post fractals are a constant look into the past, for the most part, with no context. Dungeons seem to follow along the LW some more than others. Dungeons could be the thing to fill in the gap. They could cover stories that were hinted at in the personal story or do new stories opening up the world a little more. This isn't something they have to release weekly or even with every LW patch. They could do the release like fractals and raids and release them when ready. I am not saying that fractals or raids are bad content. They aren't I personally enjoy them. However they aren't for everyone. I breeze through fractals for the most part and I have to schedule a night to do raids. Dungeons is something you can hop on and take about half an hour to do and have a decent challenge while doing it. They don't require the same amount of people as raids and can deliver a little more story then fractals. I'm just saying theres a gap that could be filled.

 

Imagine if they turned the Tengu city into a dungeon to fight off the destoryers and help out the Tengu? That could work as a raid or a dungeon. I would prefer a dungeon done to the level of TA aetherpath where it takes more skill to do.

 

They could also, content lock dungeons instead of level locking the new ones. Like you I said with the idea for the second pale tree dungeon where it only unlocks once you've gotten to a certain point in the story. Also, if they release them with new LW maps it could encourage sells of future expansion seeing as you can't access those maps unless you own the new XPAC. It could also encourage the sale of LW episodes because its content people would want to do inside those maps. For example in LWS3 theres no real incentive gameplay wise to buy any of those episodes. Thats just my 2cents though

[Zhaveh.6801]

Thank you all for your feedback, even the ones that disagree. I see the points you're all making!

[Talindra.4958]

would love any form of update to dungeons. introducing new legendary amulet/ring/accessory via dungeon token probably is good start. refurbishing dungeon or introducing new achievement points in dungeon .. new dungeon or new dungeon armors. are great idea :)

Raids can take a little break for now..

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> would love any form of update to dungeons. introducing new legendary amulet/ring/accessory via dungeon token probably is good start. refurbishing dungeon or introducing new achievement points in dungeon .. new dungeon or new dungeon armors. are great idea :)

> Raids can take a little break for now..

 

Dungeons have been refurbished and are now known as "Fractals of the Mists".

[Talindra.4958]

That wasn't what I meant. Not going to discuss further. Thanks for reading.

[lokh.2695]

> @"gorkharai.2065" said:

> DUNGEON LEGENDARY ARMOR ANY ONE ! ?

 

I'd settle for a legendary amulett but yes. Dungeon-rework-->more challenging Lvl80 paths and some collections-->Legendary shiny for ppl to grind towards to.

[lokh.2695]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > would love any form of update to dungeons. introducing new legendary amulet/ring/accessory via dungeon token probably is good start. refurbishing dungeon or introducing new achievement points in dungeon .. new dungeon or new dungeon armors. are great idea :)

> > Raids can take a little break for now..

>

> Dungeons have been refurbished and are now known as "Fractals of the Mists".

 

Missing the point of the discussion on purpose and still contributing...that's classy ;)

[Feanor.2358]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > would love any form of update to dungeons. introducing new legendary amulet/ring/accessory via dungeon token probably is good start. refurbishing dungeon or introducing new achievement points in dungeon .. new dungeon or new dungeon armors. are great idea :)

> > > Raids can take a little break for now..

> >

> > Dungeons have been refurbished and are now known as "Fractals of the Mists".

>

> Missing the point of the discussion on purpose and still contributing...that's classy ;)

 

Actually the whole discussion is missing the point of what I just said, which renders it pointless from the start. Which I've been trying to explain all the time, to no avail.

[Sublimatio.6981]

Best thing about dungeons was the big map you could break out and explore for own enjoyment. Fractals are very lacking in this department - maybe the Chaos Fractal is one of the new ones that are a bit explorable, but that's about it.

 

Yes you heard it right - apart from completing the fractal/dungeon, exploring and jumping around the zone is what I like to do a lot, which is why nightmare/shattered observatory is boring because its just a corridor between boss 1, 2, 3.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Dungeons are dead content Anet has stated this multiple times over that the corpse of that idea is a pile of compost.

 

Fractals are the only Dungeon like content that they are maintaining and pushing future content out for.

[xDudisx.5914]

Fractal is just easier for them to implement than dungeons. I liked old dungeon system. But I don't think they will make more content like that.

 

Fractal don't need a physical map for dungeon entrance. Don't need a complete story. Don't need to make much sense. They can keep using the same fractal hub, put a random enemy from any point of time and make you fight against it.

 

Dungeons like AC require a map that makes sense to have an entrance there. Like AC is in a place full of ghosts and connected with the world.

[witcher.3197]

I think the gemstore killed dungeons.

 

Think about it. Dungeons were established to come with 3 armor sets and a weapon set each, whereas with fractals Anet can just release the content and put every related skin into the gemstore.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> I think the gemstore killed dungeons.

>

 

I don't buy this argument. You can play Fractals and get access to most Fractal rewards as a free player or with access to core game only.

On the other hand, if they added dungeons to expansion areas players would absolutely need to buy the expansion to access them, similar to Raids.

Dungeons = more expansion sales, Fractals = no expansion sales, so Dungeons are more easily monetized.

 

> @"xDudisx.5914" said:

> Fractal is just easier for them to implement than dungeons.

 

I think Dungeons are easier to implement than Fractals.

Fractals require to be balanced between them because they give access to the same rewards. Otherwise we get to the Swamp of the Mists or Fractal 40 farming situation.

Fractals have a limit of 25 (x4 tiers = 100) then they'd need to invent a brand new system of fractal tiers. Fractals need to be balanced with instabilities in mind and so on. Finally fractals need to have 4 different tiers of difficulty, dungeons need only one.

[Henry.5713]

I am saying the following as someone who loved dungeons and still does dungeon tours once in a while. Dungeons have their own unique feeling and I'd have certainly prefered the frequent addition of dungeon paths, new area specific dungeons for each expansion and their story themed design. They had huge potential.

 

But let's be honest here. Dungeons are completely outdated. Content left over from 2012/2013. They require their own huge overhaul to be made into something we'd consider quality content in 2017/2018. Old mechanics only, joke level difficulty with the constant power creep, underwhelming rewards unless you own the most expensive trinket recipes which still only makes it gold and many bugs and glitches.

ArenaNet could add new dungeons and leave the old ones unchanged as a solution. A simple rework to the vendor would be another to increase the interest in dungeons. They could add ascended gear or any other unique goodies to give them back their spot as the place newbies go to gear up.

But this, just like a focus on new dungeons only, wouldn't fix the real issue. The amount of effort and time required to truely bring dungeons up to par with Fractals would simply be too much of an investment at this point.

[witcher.3197]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > I think the gemstore killed dungeons.

> >

>

> I don't buy this argument. You can play Fractals and get access to most Fractal rewards as a free player or with access to core game only.

 

I don't think you understand the arguement. I'm saying that new dungeon -> ingame skins, new fractal -> gemstore skins, so fractals are better from Anet's perspective. They can get away with adding next to new new ingame rewards because all of the new fractals can be hooked up to an already existing fractal reward frame whereas new dungeons would need their own specific rewards.

 

And even if they released new dungeons with new expansions I think it's rather obvious that it doesn't mean they'd care to let us earn rewards from them (which would just cause a huge community outrage). Looks at mounts, biggest selling point of the expansion, 0 available skins ouside the gemstore aside from the basic ones.

[Talindra.4958]

GW1 dungeon explorations were awesome.. people can farm special drop in different dungeons... Solo dungeon .. duo farm.. or etc The dungeon suppose to be e a long instance with a story.. diff rooms/levels to explore...comes with different unique drops/loot.. Dungeon traditionally are not fraction of memories of the past. Fractal is cool for a collective of memories for it being individual or from living story. I played fractal from day 1 when it was first introduced.. definitely have a fond memory of fractal and have been part of how it progressed .. dungeon is special and unique on its own. Dont stop making it esp after so many new map introduced.. current raid is for guild who seek higher lvl of challenge.. so we won't be taking that as the new dungeon exploration.. ʕ•ٹ•ʔ

Fractal is fractal.. raid is raid.. and dungeon is dungeon .. all great mmo has awesome dungeons. /Wtb 5 men dungeon with awesome story attach to a new map!! :)

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> I am saying the following as someone who loved dungeons and still does dungeon tours once in a while. Dungeons have their own unique feeling and I'd have certainly prefered the frequent addition of dungeon paths, new area specific dungeons for each expansion and their story themed design. They had huge potential.

>

> But let's be honest here. Dungeons are completely outdated. Content left over from 2012/2013. They require their own huge overhaul to be made into something we'd consider quality content in 2017/2018. Old mechanics only, joke level difficulty with the constant power creep, underwhelming rewards unless you own the most expensive trinket recipes which still only makes it gold and many bugs and glitches.

> ArenaNet could add new dungeons and leave the old ones unchanged as a solution. A simple rework to the vendor would be another to increase the interest in dungeons. They could add ascended gear or any other unique goodies to give them back their spot as the place newbies go to gear up.

> But this, just like a focus on new dungeons only, wouldn't fix the real issue. The amount of effort and time required to truely bring dungeons up to par with Fractals would simply be too much of an investment at this point.

 

in my original post I said they could add more mechanics in the likes of the aetherpath in TA. I never said to keep it the exact same content as far as game play is concerned. Also, as far as rewards, I also said in my original post, they could do skins that are exotic with dungeon tokens and have ascended recipes for a shinier version of the same armor. They did this is day break with the Astral and Stellar weapon skins. Where the exotic version being Astral is nice but kind still difficult to get. However, to obtain the ascended variant of the same weapon it took a lot more work however the ascended skins were way nicer. I spent a little over a week just to obtain 1 skin. I feel it was well worth it and I had a lot of fun. They could include achievement like quest chains inside of these dungeons that only unlock after you get the exotic version of the armor or weapons.

 

Also, I stated there's a huge opportunity to add more story and flesh out the world a lot more via dungeons. Hey thats just my opinion though.

[Eramonster.2718]

I think raid is similar to a dungeon (a bigger version tho). It does require more time to complete but luckily we can continue from checkpoints. Dungeon is dead as of now as its not rewarding to go back like you said. Exotic level reward quality & simple less intricate weapon/armor designs for cosmetic.

[The Bassist.5410]

To bring some attention back to Dungeons would require a new gimmick. And the only one I can think of now are the 'Path Of Fire' Mounts. I'd say ANet should disable P.V.E. Exploration mount races and place/configure them into pre-existing Dungeon maps as their own instance.

Possible Outcome(s):

1). New players will at least get to explore portions of the game they may not have before (namely Dungeons).

2). Older/Veteran players get re-acquainted with those areas, possibly encouraging them to replay some of the content they may have forgotten.

3). Developer Recapitulation: Maybe even the devs. have forgotten(abandoned?) these once-beloved areas of the game, and a new focus might bring

an emergence of new ideas to them. Or if not, perhaps the Dungeon Races could spark up something new for other content in the game (Raid Races?).

4). Optimization: Since P.O.F. I've been experiencing extreme lag spikes in some of the P.V.E. Ex. areas especially in the new content maps, and always

about the time when the mount races start. Removing the races and placing them in isolated/specialized content could improve frame rates

for players who may be experiencing similar lag issues.

 

Aside from that, I'd vote for a whole new chunk of the World Map containing a large lobby area designed specifically for Dungeon Entrances. Perhaps similar to the Raid lobby, but with the Dungeon entrances in this area given special thematic design as well as all the Dungeon merchants and such at the appropriate entrance - sort of advertising the Dungeon content the player is near; maybe even an N.P.C. 'story teller' adjacent to providing players a brief lore discussion of the Dungeon they are near.

 

I myself have enjoyed Dungeon play, but there were only so many runs I was going to enjoy before I switched to Fractals - and Fractals are great by the way. Still, Dungeon runs were a fun way to level my character(s) and I certainly wouldn't want to see them fade into obscurity. And I'd play more runs if creating a group (even P.U.G.s are fine) were a bit more easier/reliable.

 

Nice Thread subject. I'm glad it was made.

[Sublimatio.6981]

Gemstore didn't kill dungeons, HoT and going F2P killed them. No point making content for F2P players while you can make raids and lock them behind expansions. Even fractal reward system got hit by the fractal mastery track.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Zhaveh.6801" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > > > > but imagine 1 new dungeon each update with good reward farm like fractal..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So how exactly would it differ from a new fractal?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If dungeons are made in addition to fractals then its just double the content. If dungeons and fractals are developed on rotation then they can make an instance with actual relevant story once in a while ~~without messing with their own lore if they still care about it~~.

> > > >

> > > > My point is, there is no reason to develop two types of instanced content that do exactly the same, except one (FotM) is strictly superior to the other because it also features difficulty tiers so it can appeal to a wider group of players.

> > >

> > > Having more repeatable content is already big enough reason to do it.

> > > Giving designers and writers an opportunity to do better boss fights and develop characters is another one.

> >

> > And **all** of that can be done in the FotM format. As evidenced by the fractal updates in the last year. We get better stories, boss fights that are leaps and bounds better and recurring characters/story arcs spanning over different instances.

>

> Fractals are too short.

 

Fractals are the fix for dungeons, the Anet team tends to abandon content/stuff and add more things to the game as a fix and hope players forget about older stuff, same happens with class power creep every expantion , players should forget about dungeons and get into fractals even Anet made a ascended drops and rewards to be fractals rewards.

 

The Gw2 team, do not tend to improve what needs to be improved, and add more stuff wich is basicly a improved mechanic of other thing already existent in game, fractals is a dungeons system with better rewards, accessable form one spot.

This is one of the several reasons PVE looks and feels a mess, to much of the same where part of the game gets forgetten rather than improved, it is most developed new stuff to blind players with rewards than actually think how to improve the game itself, with current and existent dungeons system.

[Zhaveh.6801]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Zhaveh.6801" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"TheRandomGuy.7246" said:

> > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > > > > > but imagine 1 new dungeon each update with good reward farm like fractal..

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So how exactly would it differ from a new fractal?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If dungeons are made in addition to fractals then its just double the content. If dungeons and fractals are developed on rotation then they can make an instance with actual relevant story once in a while ~~without messing with their own lore if they still care about it~~.

> > > > >

> > > > > My point is, there is no reason to develop two types of instanced content that do exactly the same, except one (FotM) is strictly superior to the other because it also features difficulty tiers so it can appeal to a wider group of players.

> > > >

> > > > Having more repeatable content is already big enough reason to do it.

> > > > Giving designers and writers an opportunity to do better boss fights and develop characters is another one.

> > >

> > > And **all** of that can be done in the FotM format. As evidenced by the fractal updates in the last year. We get better stories, boss fights that are leaps and bounds better and recurring characters/story arcs spanning over different instances.

> >

> > Fractals are too short.

>

> Fractals are the fix for dungeons, the Anet team tends to abandon content/stuff and add more things to the game as a fix and hope players forget about older stuff, same happens with class power creep every expantion , players should forget about dungeons and get into fractals even Anet made a ascended drops and rewards to be fractals rewards.

>

> The Gw2 team, do not tend to improve what needs to be improved, and add more stuff wich is basicly a improved mechanic of other thing already existent in game, fractals is a dungeons system with better rewards, accessable form one spot.

> This is one of the several reasons PVE looks and feels a mess, to much of the same where part of the game gets forgetten rather than improved, it is most developed new stuff to blind players with rewards than actually think how to improve the game itself, with current and existent dungeons system.

 

I'm not asking for a fix to old dungeons. I'm asking for new dungeons to be added.