HoT maps vs PoF maps

[Aiglos.2907]

Honestly I really can't stand HoT. I appreciate what they've tried to do, but everything about the map design frustrates me.

Thankfully, mounts make exploring the HoT maps so much easier- but still, there never seems to be a clear cut route to where you need to go. Once you've done a few HP runs you can begin to understand how to traverse effectively, but exploring as a new player would be a pretty dire experience tbh. Exploration is hard because the maps are packed with mobs that can deal insane amounts of damage. It is challenging content.

 

PoF feels so much better to me. Maps are far less enclosed and there are usually clear routes to everything. Map design is so much simplier and easier to navigate. There are mobs that have quite large aggro ranges, but it just feels much more traversible. Especially HP's.... So much easier to get here than HoT. Plus I prefer the aesthetics... less vines!

 

[Weindrasi.3805]

The HoT maps were a pain in the butt as I took my first few characters through, but after you do map completion in them 5+ times, you get them down really well. Hell, I ought to do Tangled Depths hero point runs, I know that place like the back of my hand.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Weindrasi.3805" said:

> The HoT maps were a pain in the butt as I took my first few characters through, but after you do map completion in them 5+ times, you get them down really well. Hell, I ought to do Tangled Depths hero point runs, I know that place like the back of my hand.

 

I often lead HP runs in TD when I have nothing better to do. I love the reactions from players who were struggling to find their way around as I reveal various ways to get from point to point that were just hidden all around them! It truly is an amazing map. It's a shame exploration like that isn't more popular. I would LOVE to see another map like TD!

[particlepinata.9865]

If Hot had controller support navigating would be 10 times better i think. The mouse and keyboard are not perfect for such 3d maps.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

>

> > hot maps suck

> > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

>

> People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

 

megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

not exactly a stellar recommendation

[Galaa.8475]

designer of HOT maps is a sadest and was high and was going thru a nasty divorce and the childhood dog died. lol,

[Enoah.1956]

> @"Vargamonth.2047" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> >

> > There's also the rotten solo-play-tendency which more and more developers cater to. Hell, PoF basically felt somewhat like a Single-Player-game with some events as optional Coop-component.

>

> I can't really agree with this.

> HoT has more obvious and relevant metas, which are of course group content, but in terms of exploration and regular play PoF isn't much more solo-play oriented than HoT.

> HoT has harder Hero Points, but PoF has a lot of bounties which are overall less solo-friendly than HoT HPs.

> PoF "metas", while requiring far less people, are still done in a way that demands splitting and can hardly be completed alone. Some events do require a minimum amount of people to start, even if the event itself is perfectly soloable (yes Zommoros Lair, I'm looking at you). Also, since many of PoF group events have crappy replay value, it's fairly common to find no people around to do them and feel blocked, something far less frequent in HoT.

Some PoF events that at first glance should be perfectly soloable are not really as easy as they may seem because of silly failure conditions. I wonder if I will ever be able to finish that event with Explorer Jeppa where you're escorting her and then fight a Giant with her in Desert Highlands. If her health drops to zero the event is instant failure even when there is still plenty of time on the timer. Babysitting some underpowered Asura is nothing I fancy too much.

 

That being said, the events in PoF thus far are super underwhelming. From all the events I did in the PoF maps I've been to so far I think I only like the Choya Stampede. The rest is meh. Those Priory guys requesting artifacts from you is so cardboard pattern copy & paste that I almost feel insulted by the mindnumbing simplicity of those events. HoT is superior as far as that goes.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> >

> > > hot maps suck

> > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> >

> > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

>

> megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

> last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

> hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

> not exactly a stellar recommendation

 

That's right: Megaservers. You don't actually know how full of players Queensdale is because you can't be sure you're on the only open instance of the map. Chances are that right now, with a new current event related to the storyline happening in all of the starter zones, there are multiple map instances open because so many players descend upon these maps every hour on the half hour. When they depart to go do other things, they leave depleted map instances behind.

 

The same exact thing happens in the HoT maps. The metas are on a set timer, so the maps go through cycles of population rise and fall. Those who don't understand megaservers, LFG, and meta timers will frequently find themselves hopping from empty to map to empty map, because all of the players who know what they're doing used LFG to fill meta maps, leaving all of the other open instances depleted of players.

 

I'm not suggesting that the population is anywhere close to what it used to be, but observing that you log into Queensdale 5-6 years after release and didn't see many players means pretty much nothing.

 

 

[Vargamonth.2047]

> @"Enoah.1956" said:

> Some PoF events that at first glance should be perfectly soloable are not really as easy as they may seem because of silly failure conditions. I wonder if I will ever be able to finish that event with Explorer Jeppa where you're escorting her and then fight a Giant with her in Desert Highlands. If her health drops to zero the event is instant failure even when there is still plenty of time on the timer. Babysitting some underpowered Asura is nothing I fancy too much.

>

> That being said, the events in PoF thus far are super underwhelming. From all the events I did in the PoF maps I've been to so far I think I only like the Choya Stampede. The rest is meh. Those Priory guys requesting artifacts from you is so cardboard pattern copy & paste that I almost feel insulted by the mindnumbing simplicity of those events. HoT is superior as far as that goes.

>

Jeppa's event worst part is the third supply spot, where for some weird reason she vanishes and appears at the other extreme of the map for a few seconds., where she can be killed. Jeppa doesn't engage the giant in close combat, so for that part all you have to do is rush forwards as soon as the escort event finishes and engage the giant way before he approaches Jeppa (and obviously, do not kite towards her :P).

 

[battledrone.8315]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > >

> > > > hot maps suck

> > > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> > >

> > > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

> >

> > megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

> > last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

> > hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

> > not exactly a stellar recommendation

>

> That's right: Megaservers. You don't actually know how full of players Queensdale is because you can't be sure you're on the only open instance of the map. Chances are that right now, with a new current event related to the storyline happening in all of the starter zones, there are multiple map instances open because so many players descend upon these maps every hour on the half hour. When they depart to go do other things, they leave depleted map instances behind.

>

> The same exact thing happens in the HoT maps. The metas are on a set timer, so the maps go through cycles of population rise and fall. Those who don't understand megaservers, LFG, and meta timers will frequently find themselves hopping from empty to map to empty map, because all of the players who know what they're doing used LFG to fill meta maps, leaving all of the other open instances depleted of players.

>

> I'm not suggesting that the population is anywhere close to what it used to be, but observing that you log into Queensdale 5-6 years after release and didn't see many players means pretty much nothing.

>

> so the population on my map means nothing? what the hell do you think a new player sees first?

and what is the life blood of ANY mmo? NEW PLAYERS

 

 

 

[Galaa.8475]

read the comment(s) "anet should not listen to players" that has to be one of the ________ things ive ever heard. if the game does not listen to the player base(which gives them money) they do not survive. forehead smack time. jesus!

[zealex.9410]

Pof is the opposite from Hot in terms of maps.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > >

> > > > > hot maps suck

> > > > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> > > >

> > > > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > > > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

> > >

> > > megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

> > > last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

> > > hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

> > > not exactly a stellar recommendation

> >

> > That's right: Megaservers. You don't actually know how full of players Queensdale is because you can't be sure you're on the only open instance of the map. Chances are that right now, with a new current event related to the storyline happening in all of the starter zones, there are multiple map instances open because so many players descend upon these maps every hour on the half hour. When they depart to go do other things, they leave depleted map instances behind.

> >

> > The same exact thing happens in the HoT maps. The metas are on a set timer, so the maps go through cycles of population rise and fall. Those who don't understand megaservers, LFG, and meta timers will frequently find themselves hopping from empty to map to empty map, because all of the players who know what they're doing used LFG to fill meta maps, leaving all of the other open instances depleted of players.

> >

> > I'm not suggesting that the population is anywhere close to what it used to be, but observing that you log into Queensdale 5-6 years after release and didn't see many players means pretty much nothing.

> >

> > so the population on my map means nothing? what the hell do you think a new player sees first?

> and what is the life blood of ANY mmo? NEW PLAYERS

>

>

>

 

Yes, the population on one map instance means exactly nothing. What did you think it meant? The game is dying?

 

I was in Queensdale (and the other Kryta maps) for several hours yesterday, recording video of bandit champions and the legendary executioner. Not only were there players everywhere, I met new players left and right. When I announced in map chat that I was tagging up for a bandit boss, the most common response was: "What's a bandit boss?" to which I replied: "Come find out! On my tag!"

 

Everything seems fine to me. But I guess you can just hang out on the empty map instance you found and convince yourself that the game is dead. Whatever floats your boat, bud.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Galaa.8475" said:

> read the comment(s) "anet should not listen to players" that has to be one of the ________ things ive ever heard. if the game does not listen to the player base(which gives them money) they do not survive. forehead smack time. jesus!

 

That's the thing. You have to be careful "listening to players" because, first of all, players are not uniform in their opinions. Further, players think they know what they want, but they are not game developers. A great example of this are things that are straight bad for the game that players will rabidly defend (AB multimap and various other glaring exploits, for instance!).

 

They also "listened to the players" in removing the big meta events that were so popular in HoT. Why? Because many players didn't like HoT and therefore it seemed nothing about HoT was any good! Now what are we seeing? "Hey, stupid! What did you do with the meta events!?"

 

I would never say ignore the players. Rather, listen to their input, but do what you think is best as a developer. What else can you do, really?

[Autolukos.1359]

Im now in PoF maps, after Crystal Oasis, and while I love the whole premise, I still consider Tangled Depths and Dragon's Stand the most frustrating and satisfying places in the whole game.

 

 

[Torolan.5816]

TD is garbage for us who are bad at navigating, plain and simple. HoT maps are praised by most people, but I think the very idea of sealing off parts of maps with events is already stupid. I did the AB meta south so often that I am pretty sure that there are prints of the body of my ranger there. For me personally, HoT is a 5/10, a rushed half story with so much nonsensical things happening where you can basically feel that there was more planned but it fell flat because of money or time. PoF is a 7/10, no mazes is always a plus for me.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> TD is garbage for us who are bad at navigating, plain and simple. HoT maps are praised by most people, but I think the very idea of sealing off parts of maps with events is already stupid. I did the AB meta south so often that I am pretty sure that there are prints of the body of my ranger there. For me personally, HoT is a 5/10, a rushed half story with so much nonsensical things happening where you can basically feel that there was more planned but it fell flat because of money or time. PoF is a 7/10, no mazes is always a plus for me.

 

I think you're making a bigger deal about "sealing off parts of the map" than it strictly needs to be. What does TD have sealed behind events? 2 rooms? The earth elemental room between Nuhoch and Rata Novus lanes and the treasure room following the meta? DS? Just the southern part of the map now, which you just need to run the meta one time to unlock? AB has one room that you only need to do 2 events to get into. I think you can reach everything else? And VB has nothing blocked. Nearly all of this can be map completed simply by doing the meta one time.

 

But I suppose if you just hate spending any amount of time at all in these maps, then anything is going to seem like a chore, huh?

[Torolan.5816]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Torolan.5816" said:

> > TD is garbage for us who are bad at navigating, plain and simple. HoT maps are praised by most people, but I think the very idea of sealing off parts of maps with events is already stupid. I did the AB meta south so often that I am pretty sure that there are prints of the body of my ranger there. For me personally, HoT is a 5/10, a rushed half story with so much nonsensical things happening where you can basically feel that there was more planned but it fell flat because of money or time. PoF is a 7/10, no mazes is always a plus for me.

>

> I think you're making a bigger deal about "sealing off parts of the map" than it strictly needs to be. What does TD have sealed behind events? 2 rooms? The earth elemental room between Nuhoch and Rata Novus lanes and the treasure room following the meta? DS? Just the southern part of the map now, which you just need to run the meta one time to unlock? AB has one room that you only need to do 2 events to get into. I think you can reach everything else? And VB has nothing blocked. Nearly all of this can be map completed simply by doing the meta one time.

>

> But I suppose if you just hate spending any amount of time at all in these maps, then anything is going to seem like a chore, huh?

 

I don´t hate the maps, but they are very much overhyped. Content I hate does not get a 5/10 out of me, it get´s a 1/10 like Drytop.

 

*The first map is advertised as having three levels, but I think you can rightfully challenge the idea that the top layer is really a level. This map also has one of the best sealed off Mastery points in the whole game, the one in the cone that was an airship and also hides a mastery point under poison. You have to really know the map how to reach the upper level when it is not event time, so you are pretty much damned to wait until the events come up when you are new. Granted, PoF suffers from the same problem with different clothes.

*Auric Basin in the top left corner is intended to be reached first when you have ley line gliding. Then there is the big wall in the south too.

*Tangled depths basically seals of the part where the chak live until you have the mastery. The most frustrating point abnout this map are the veteran chak that literally jump you at every corner and the very idea that you are standing right beside a mastery point and can´t reach it because it is hidden somewhere in the next level.

*You can´t explore Dragon Stand on your own, a number of higher powered mobs will attack you sooner or later. I don´t know about you, but I can´t concentrate enough to complete a task that is hard for me personally when I always get distracted, and I can even less concentrate on navigating when I get slowed crippled etc as that also makes moving around harder.

[Enoah.1956]

> @"Vargamonth.2047" said:

> > @"Enoah.1956" said:

> > Some PoF events that at first glance should be perfectly soloable are not really as easy as they may seem because of silly failure conditions. I wonder if I will ever be able to finish that event with Explorer Jeppa where you're escorting her and then fight a Giant with her in Desert Highlands. If her health drops to zero the event is instant failure even when there is still plenty of time on the timer. Babysitting some underpowered Asura is nothing I fancy too much.

> >

> > That being said, the events in PoF thus far are super underwhelming. From all the events I did in the PoF maps I've been to so far I think I only like the Choya Stampede. The rest is meh. Those Priory guys requesting artifacts from you is so cardboard pattern copy & paste that I almost feel insulted by the mindnumbing simplicity of those events. HoT is superior as far as that goes.

> >

> Jeppa's event worst part is the third supply spot, where for some weird reason she vanishes and appears at the other extreme of the map for a few seconds., where she can be killed. Jeppa doesn't engage the giant in close combat, so for that part all you have to do is rush forwards as soon as the escort event finishes and engage the giant way before he approaches Jeppa (and obviously, do not kite towards her :P).

>

I remember Jeppa disappearing from one at the supply spots (it was in those mountainous snowy areas) into thin air and being way ahead of me to the next spot. If this isn't a bug but made as it is then big shame on Anet for being so careless with designing that. If you can't be bothered to design such an event properly, or can only come up with brainless fetch quests, then better just leave them out. I'll try to rush the giant but it's really not very motivating going through the entire pre-event just for that.

 

I once tagged up and tried using LFG to find somebody help me do it but no one could be bothered. I guess the PoF maps are dead in a sense? I have only explored the first two areas thoroughly though, not sure if this - and the quality of the events/quests - get better with Elon Riverlands. Right now a part of me is struggling with doing PoF. I'm also afraid the story will end up being as lazily rushed as in HoT, although I've been rather happy with the Vlast/Kormir thing so far, a good mix between open world and instances.

 

Not sure though how to feel about the human lore being so pushy at the moment. Augury Rock seems like just to rekindle old memories from GW1/to bait some hardcore series fans so far. I understand parts of this, I played Prophecies, but it's been a very long time and sometimes I wish the devs would move on some more. If there is ever going to be a GW3 I hope they dare to try truly new things and not try to push the nostalgia buttons so hard. Cause that aint working so well with me at the moment. I effectively hated Metal Gear Solid 4 for being one whole nostalgia wreck train. I have been to Elon Riverlands just a few short times and I already wanted to yell at those wannabe nerdy kids at the first camps: "OMG YOU PLAYED PROPHECIES TOO?! AND YOU PLAYED ALL THE CLASSES!? I BET MHENLO IS YOUR FAVORITE HENCHMAN INDEED?! MINE TOO!!!!!!!!!111 LET'S PARTY UP SOMETIME I STILL GOTTA DO FACTIONS AND BEYOND!!!"

 

[Vargamonth.2047]

> @"Enoah.1956" said:

> I remember Jeppa disappearing from one at the supply spots (it was in those mountainous snowy areas) into thin air and being way ahead of me to the next spot. If this isn't a bug but made as it is then big shame on Anet for being so careless with designing that. If you can't be bothered to design such an event properly, or can only come up with brainless fetch quests, then better just leave them out.

>

 

It is definitely a bug (and still unfixed, or not fully fixed at least, since I did the event chain this very morning). She briefly teleports to an awakened camp below the ogre area half map away and then reappears jumping down the ledge you were on her springer. Some time ago I got her killed on that camp and a timer for resurection started running (I failed, since I obviously couldn't locate her at first, and then I had not the map awareness and the mounts I have now to cross half map and get her up :P).

 

 

[sorudo.9054]

i like PoF allot more then HoT, i can at least get to a save place to check mail or store mats.

in HoT i am more busy actually staying alive then playing the game and for me that's a big no go, if it was up to me i would lower the enemy density by 30% and not be so stubborn. (they chaise me all the way to the other side of the map if i didn't had gliding)

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> >

> > > hot maps suck

> > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> >

> > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

>

> megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

> last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

> hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

> not exactly a stellar recommendation

 

You're probably thinking around the time they added champion boxes to champion loot tables.

Queensdale was packed full of lvl 80's doing champion trains because although it was a low lvl map it had several champions + World boss, so people would farm the hell out of that.

Add to that that the Spider champ would often drop an item that to this day is still one of the most expensive exotics, and you'll understand why Queensdale was full.

With NPE and other changes they removed all the champions from low level areas so as to stop those farms from being detrimental to new players.

So with the exception of when the Behemoth is up Queensdale is the same as all other low lvl maps, full of new characters, or old ones getting world completion.

I'll have to say that it's sad they went the route of getting rid of all the champions, since for me one of the coolest experiences i had in the game, that stuck with me 5+ years later, was during the beta, doing the corrupted Svanir Champ in Wayfarer's Foothills at the end of the meta on the north of the map. It was awesome, and to this day one of my favourite moments playing the game.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> i like PoF allot more then HoT, i can at least get to a save place to check mail or store mats.

> in HoT i am more busy actually staying alive then playing the game and for me that's a big no go, if it was up to me i would lower the enemy density by 30% and not be so stubborn. (they chaise me all the way to the other side of the map if i didn't had gliding)

 

Weird. That's how PoF feels to me. The mob density seems much higher and the aggro range of some of the PoF mobs is absolutely ridiculous. And since the terrain is often designed to require mounts, getting out of combat is the only reliable way to find a safe place. But good luck doing that without clearing half the known universe of hydras and forged riflemen as they aggro from 2000 units distance and then follow you for half an hour! LoL

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Samnang.1879" said:

> > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > >

> > > > hot maps suck

> > > > they lost so many players, that they havent dared to show any sales of pof

> > >

> > > People have been saying GW2 is losing players for years........ yet it's still thriving... what is the truth?

> > > Before HoT yall said GW2 has lost half the fanbase, before PoF yall said the fanbase is 80% gone. Yet the game is still thriving, tons of people have mounts...

> >

> > megaservers, i played this game when it was popular, queensdale was literally bursting with people

> > last time i was there, there was only about a dozen

> > hot was the expansion, that one out of ten bought

> > not exactly a stellar recommendation

>

> You're probably thinking around the time they added champion boxes to champion loot tables.

> Queensdale was packed full of lvl 80's doing champion trains because although it was a low lvl map it had several champions + World boss, so people would farm the hell out of that.

> Add to that that the Spider champ would often drop an item that to this day is still one of the most expensive exotics, and you'll understand why Queensdale was full.

> With NPE and other changes they removed all the champions from low level areas so as to stop those farms from being detrimental to new players.

> So with the exception of when the Behemoth is up Queensdale is the same as all other low lvl maps, full of new characters, or old ones getting world completion.

> I'll have to say that it's sad they went the route of getting rid of all the champions, since for me one of the coolest experiences i had in the game, that stuck with me 5+ years later, was during the beta, doing the corrupted Svanir Champ in Wayfarer's Foothills at the end of the meta on the north of the map. It was awesome, and to this day one of my favourite moments playing the game.

 

They did add in current events such as the awakened portals and bandit champions, though. Kessex Hills is always hopping because it already had several champions and then they added 3 bandit champs to the mix! I know players who literally play Kessex Hills all day long because they like fighting the champions!

[CharterforGw.3149]

I don't like sand...

 

Pof is okay, I notice myself playing a lot less of PoF than I did HoT. It's all personal preference though.

My borther did like HoT much. He didn't enjoy the Meta events. But he loves PoF.

It shows me how we can both enjoy the game even though we like completely different aspects of it.

It's what makes GW2 a strong game imo. There is more freedom to do what you like without having the feeling of missing out.