Daily AP cap (again, but new idea)

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"MarkoNS.3261" said:

> if you mean it stats after 15k cap yeah then why not but still it exploits the people who want ap the most, the top people on leaderboards would start foaming from the mouth to do all the dailies xd.

 

They already did, which is why ANet had to step in to curb their uncontrolled gameplay, simultaneously punishing the rest of us.

 

> @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> In fact, the idea that I won't feel compelled to do dailies anymore after reaching the cap feels more like a reward than punishment. XD

 

If not for the tasty-tasty 2 gold, I probably wouldn't be doing them. And it's nice thought not to plan my day around daily reset, doing dailies on two accounts, and then *finally* saying "let's go do guild stuff!" About the only thing the dailies do is keep me on long enough to see if my guilds are busy before deciding whether to sign off or not. >.>

[DarcShriek.5829]

Why stop with raising the daily cap. Let's raise the caps of all the achievements, especially the salvaging achievement. Why do people only want the daily cap raised?

[Vallun.2071]

You can't just put your premises on an untouchable pedestal. Otherwise you can just argue for anything.

Dailies are not there to dictate your gameplay, it is to guide it. I think the current system that gives you choices and a very hard cap is fine, mainly because I know that if the cap was raised it would regress back to the very old system where you spent hours on dailies per day to reach the maximum amount. There are plenty of things to do in this game daily as opposed to back then, for example fractals have expanded, living story maps and HoT metas all provide daily PvE rewards, not to mention the other two game modes. So we don't need more argbitrary repeat "X" content when thats basically what the unique achievement system is already doing.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

>Why do people only want the daily cap raised?

 

Progression in the AP line. The daily reward gives casual, or those not interested in the more time consuming parts of the game, a way to slowly progress toward better and better gear and account bonuses. With the AP cap, it pretty much stops any further progression outside of updates to Living World and expansions via their achievements.

 

In other words, there's no carrot for lay players to chase.

 

[DarcShriek.5829]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> >Why do people only want the daily cap raised?

>

> Progression in the AP line. The daily reward gives casual, or those not interested in the more time consuming parts of the game, a way to slowly progress toward better and better gear and account bonuses. With the AP cap, it pretty much stops any further progression outside of updates to Living World and expansions via their achievements.

>

> In other words, there's no carrot for lay players to chase.

>

 

You seem to be saying that the only thing the people that are asking for a daily cap increase are only interested in daily rewards and no other part of the game.

 

Achievement points and their ilk are typically used to entice players to play parts of the game that they wouldn't normally play. Increasing the daily cap would reduce the effectiveness of other achievement points.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

That would progressively require more and more time from players. That is not that good. Daily achievements should allow any kind of player to jump in, do them and leave, no matter if they have an hour or 5 to play.

 

Instead, I'd go with a progressive AP cap for dailies instead a fixed one. Something like "5,000 AP + 1,000AP per year since release" or "10,000AP + 500AP per year since release".

 

A progressive cap could be combined with diminishing AP earning, though, so every daily still counts. So with both combined, it could be something like: 15,000AP cap, + 250AP cap per year from now on, but past 15,000AP, dailies give 5AP instead 10.

 

So new players would still be able to catch up with daily AP since there's they can earn 3650 AP per year, and old players would still be able to keep earning AP since they'd be able to eat a bit more from dailies each year.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> You seem to be saying that the only thing the people that are asking for a daily cap increase are only interested in daily rewards and no other part of the game.

>

> Achievement points and their ilk are typically used to entice players to play parts of the game that they wouldn't normally play. Increasing the daily cap would reduce the effectiveness of other achievement points.

 

As I said, some of us don't have the hours to raid, zerg, or chase after some obscure AP treasure hunt which requires research on Dulfy. If that makes other APs less effective, I'm more than okay with that too. By the way, the player who goes after both will be far ahead in the game as far as AP.

 

So, really, the idea that something as meaningless as a reward system in a video game will be even more meaningless is somewhat moot. Besides, ANet nullified that argument when they returned items and rewards via a purchase system. So . . . you can now buy once rewarded items with cash.

 

Slippery slope and all.

[DarcShriek.5829]

Now that you've reached the cap, you can take the time you used to earn those AP and use it to earn different AP.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"MarkoNS.3261" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"MarkoNS.3261" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > In https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23795/pve-dailies#latest, Dashiva had an excellent idea:

> > > > >

> > > > >> @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> > > > >> I am fine with the normal dailies as it is. Plenty of options and usually varied and easy enough. I am however quite bored with the repetitive map-specific dailies in the LW-maps.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> I have been wondering lately if the pve-dailies should be split up between "expansions":

> > > > >>

> > > > >> * 4 Core dailies

> > > > >> * 4 LS2 dailies

> > > > >> * 4 HoT dailies

> > > > >> * 4 LS3 dailies

> > > > >> * 4 PoF dailies

> > > > >> * 4 LS4 dailies

> > > > >>

> > > > >> and so on.

> > > >

> > > > > I LOVE this idea! It makes great sense, and the only downside is the length of the list. It should be not only trivial to code, but actually easier and less error-prone than the current system (which has to compare specific daily types across expansions).

> > > >

> > > > This thread assumes two things. First, that something like Dashiva's idea gets implemented, and second that the daily achievement point (AP) cap is not a good thing. If you disagree with either premise, please either ignore this thread or avoid commenting on these premises. All other posters: please ignore arguments against either of these two conditions, so the thread doesn't get derailed.

> > > >

> > > > My idea is that instead of a hard cap, daily APs be made successively harder to obtain, and/or have lesser value at completion.

> > > >

> > > > Previously, I and many others have suggested using diminishing returns. But, with 24 dailies (Dashiva's idea) to choose from, ANet could, instead of (or, in addition to) the diminishing returns, raise the requirement for further daily APs.

> > > >

> > > > For example, at 5,000 AP, players would need 4 dailies per day, and obtain only 9 APs for completing them. After 10,000, 5 a day and 8 APs per day. Etc, eventually coming down to needing something like 10-15 dailies completed, and only getting 1 AP per day for the effort.

> > > >

> > > > NOTE: The exact numbers in the example above is for illustration only.

> > > >

> > > > 2nd NOTE: It's possible that PvP and WvW dailies might need reworking as a result of this idea. But, because I barely play WvW and never PvP, I can't comment intelligently on that.

> > >

> > > this is a horrible idea and will make a slow thing even more slower.

> >

> > How, exactly? It takes zero progress (the current mode, after 15,000 AP), and allows at least some progress. Zero progress compared to some progress cannot possibly be slower.

>

> if you mean it stats after 15k cap yeah then why not but still it exploits the people who want ap the most, the top people on leaderboards would start foaming from the mouth to do all the dailies xd.

 

That's why I started my example at 5000 AP, but the more I think about it, that's not fair. It would penalize active players between 5000 and 15000. Instead, it should start at 15k, where we get nothing now, so no change happens to people under 15k. Then, it should drop to 5-8 per day, while at the same time requiring maybe 5-8 dailies be completed.

 

It kind of depends on ANet's philosophy on the cap. They haven't told us why, and frankly the reasons speculators have stated are untenable.

 

So, my whole idea is based upon ANet having good reason for the cap. I don't think they do, or at least not a good ENOUGH reason. Hence, diminishing returns/greater difficulty.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > Now for the idea itself, it's a horrid one. It punishes veteran players by forcing them to play more of things that they do not like for no reason. They made it so you get 10 AP for 3 dailies because players complained that the old system had too much grind, and now you want to make it even worse than it was back then? That's like making steps backwards and going back to how it was before that change. If you want players to go and do their dailies, then make the dailies themselves rewarding and varied enough.

> > > >

> > > > How can adding more ability to get AP rewards (for dailies) possibly be worse than what we have now, which is zero?

> > > >

> > > > Veteran players are already being punished at the rate of 100% (for dailies). While I think the cap itself is absurd, it exists. This idea at least allows some progression due to dailies, vs. none right now.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Because it literally makes a push for endlessly completing your dailies to obtain the teeny tiniest amount of AP so that you feel like you're progressing, but in fact you're just circlejerking dailies for no apparent reason.

> >

> > My push is to eliminate the cap, but that seems to have fallen on deaf ears at ANet. This ides is a sort of compromise, and addition to diminishing returns. I'm assuming that because they refuse to comment, they can't support the cap in any coherent way. This idea allows them to at least pay lip-service to their veteran players.

>

> to some veteran players incredibly vocal about it*

>

> I personally don't really see daily AP as relevant at all, and would rather see AP more in everything else. Why would anyone want to do more of the same dailies, instead of being send out to do a much greater variety of tasks. Like adding 1 AP for every weapon you collect in a weapon collection, rather than 1 AP at 6 weapons 1 AP at 12 weapons and one at 16 weapons (or whatever it is). That would make much more sense than the 1 AP for each random item pick up in some random map location.

>

> The whole idea of daily AP cap being a problem being fixed by making it not a cap is just a horrible idea. And more incentive on a lot of other tasks that already give AP, just not in the weak way they are now. It could provide people with the feeling they aren't actually stuck as they can obtain some AP every day, without feeling they have to do just dailies every day. Easier to obtain AP in smaller increments would go long ways.

>

> I really don't see more AP on dailies so that people can do more dailies (yay?) for AP as favourable. To me it's the same as the cap on slayer achievements. I could kill many more mobs of some of these categories, without obtaining AP, but it doesn't bother me, because it's just incredibly repetitive and boring. Just like dailies.

 

I see your point, but I don't agree with the premise, so we'll have to just disagree.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> In https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23795/pve-dailies#latest, Dashiva had an excellent idea:

> >

> >> @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> >> I am fine with the normal dailies as it is. Plenty of options and usually varied and easy enough. I am however quite bored with the repetitive map-specific dailies in the LW-maps.

> >>

> >> I have been wondering lately if the pve-dailies should be split up between "expansions":

> >>

> >> * 4 Core dailies

> >> * 4 LS2 dailies

> >> * 4 HoT dailies

> >> * 4 LS3 dailies

> >> * 4 PoF dailies

> >> * 4 LS4 dailies

> >>

> >> and so on.

>

> > I LOVE this idea! It makes great sense, and the only downside is the length of the list. It should be not only trivial to code, but actually easier and less error-prone than the current system (which has to compare specific daily types across expansions).

>

> This thread assumes two things. First, that something like Dashiva's idea gets implemented, and second that the daily achievement point (AP) cap is not a good thing. If you disagree with either premise, please either ignore this thread or avoid commenting on these premises. All other posters: please ignore arguments against either of these two conditions, so the thread doesn't get derailed.

>

> My idea is that instead of a hard cap, daily APs be made successively harder to obtain, and/or have lesser value at completion.

>

> Previously, I and many others have suggested using diminishing returns. But, with 24 dailies (Dashiva's idea) to choose from, ANet could, instead of (or, in addition to) the diminishing returns, raise the requirement for further daily APs.

>

> For example, at 5,000 AP, players would need 4 dailies per day, and obtain only 9 APs for completing them. After 10,000, 5 a day and 8 APs per day. Etc, eventually coming down to needing something like 10-15 dailies completed, and only getting 1 AP per day for the effort.

>

> NOTE: The exact numbers in the example above is for illustration only.

>

> 2nd NOTE: It's possible that PvP and WvW dailies might need reworking as a result of this idea. But, because I barely play WvW and never PvP, I can't comment intelligently on that.

 

You do realize there's already a cap on how much AP you can obtain from dailys, right?

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > Now for the idea itself, it's a horrid one. It punishes veteran players by forcing them to play more of things that they do not like for no reason. They made it so you get 10 AP for 3 dailies because players complained that the old system had too much grind, and now you want to make it even worse than it was back then? That's like making steps backwards and going back to how it was before that change. If you want players to go and do their dailies, then make the dailies themselves rewarding and varied enough.

> >

> > How can adding more ability to get AP rewards (for dailies) possibly be worse than what we have now, which is zero?

> >

> > Veteran players are already being punished at the rate of 100% (for dailies). While I think the cap itself is absurd, it exists. This idea at least allows some progression due to dailies, vs. none right now.

> >

>

> Daily achievement points are for veteran players to show how long they've been active with the game, they are the closest we have as a veteran reward. With your system of making it progressively harder to get achievement points from them, by requiring more dailies done each day, they transform from "veteran rewards" to "veteran rewards for players without a life". This is a horrid idea and punishes veteran players instead of helping them

>

> You should also think of the cap itself as a reward, meaning once a veteran players reaches the daily cap they don't have to deal with dailies anymore, that's a huge reward on its own. With a cap, missing a daily here and there means it will take you just that longer to reach the cap, but you will reach it eventually. With your system, there will come a point where you can no longer progress, the difference will be, others will be able to progress. Some players able to progress while others are stuck is far worse than nobody being able to progress anymore.

 

You are comparing my idea to the ideal. (Ideal, IMO, is no cap whatsoever.) I would be (and have been) a huge fan of completely removing the cap.

 

My idea assumes that they don't want to fully remove the cap, but also that they're not completely convinced that a hard cap is the right solution to whatever problem they're trying to fix with the cap.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:

> Why stop with raising the daily cap. Let's raise the caps of all the achievements, especially the salvaging achievement. Why do people only want the daily cap raised?

 

No argument here. But, it's probably not going to happen. (But, I still would like ANet to explain WHY the caps exist.)

[DarcShriek.5829]

Some of the caps are obvious. Originally the caps didn't exist. Caps were added when people started abusing some of the easier APs, such as salvaging. My opinion was that they felt it was healthier to have caps than to not have caps. Having caps prevented scenarios where players would do nothing but salvage junk all day to get AP.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > Now for the idea itself, it's a horrid one. It punishes veteran players by forcing them to play more of things that they do not like for no reason. They made it so you get 10 AP for 3 dailies because players complained that the old system had too much grind, and now you want to make it even worse than it was back then? That's like making steps backwards and going back to how it was before that change. If you want players to go and do their dailies, then make the dailies themselves rewarding and varied enough.

> > >

> > > How can adding more ability to get AP rewards (for dailies) possibly be worse than what we have now, which is zero?

> > >

> > > Veteran players are already being punished at the rate of 100% (for dailies). While I think the cap itself is absurd, it exists. This idea at least allows some progression due to dailies, vs. none right now.

> > >

> >

> > Daily achievement points are for veteran players to show how long they've been active with the game, they are the closest we have as a veteran reward. With your system of making it progressively harder to get achievement points from them, by requiring more dailies done each day, they transform from "veteran rewards" to "veteran rewards for players without a life". This is a horrid idea and punishes veteran players instead of helping them

> >

> > You should also think of the cap itself as a reward, meaning once a veteran players reaches the daily cap they don't have to deal with dailies anymore, that's a huge reward on its own. With a cap, missing a daily here and there means it will take you just that longer to reach the cap, but you will reach it eventually. With your system, there will come a point where you can no longer progress, the difference will be, others will be able to progress. Some players able to progress while others are stuck is far worse than nobody being able to progress anymore.

>

> You are comparing my idea to the ideal. (Ideal, IMO, is no cap whatsoever.) I would be (and have been) a huge fan of completely removing the cap.

>

> My idea assumes that they don't want to fully remove the cap, but also that they're not completely convinced that a hard cap is the right solution to whatever problem they're trying to fix with the cap.

 

The ideal is to have a cap not to be without it, I'm comparing your idea with the current system. And I will repeat it once more: Some players able to progress while others are stuck is far worse than nobody being able to progress anymore. And people WILL get stuck with your system too, when the amount of time required to get any AP from dailies will be beyond their reach.

 

Making dailies about who has the most free time to play is an absolutely horrid idea. Compared to your idea, the current system is far superior.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

>

> The ideal is to have a cap not to be without it, I'm comparing your idea with the current system. And I will repeat it once more: Some players able to progress while others are stuck is far worse than nobody being able to progress anymore. And people WILL get stuck with your system too, when the amount of time required to get any AP from dailies will be beyond their reach.

>

> Making dailies about who has the most free time to play is an absolutely horrid idea. Compared to your idea, the current system is far superior.

 

Agreed.

[X T D.6458]

Get rid of the stupid cap, it has no purpose. If people want to work on achievements, they will. Been playing over 5 years and I am still not near 30k ap, God knows how many years it will take to get the full hellfire set.

[Miss Lana.5276]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> If you disagree with either premise, please either ignore this thread or avoid commenting on these premises. All other posters: please ignore arguments against either of these two conditions, so the thread doesn't get derailed.

 

So you're just looking for an army of yes-men in an echo chamber? That's *not* how discussions work - and therefore not how *forums* work. I would suggest taking a mature stance instead of saying "if you disagree with me shut up and leave!"

 

> For example, at 5,000 AP, players would need 4 dailies per day, and obtain only 9 APs for completing them. After 10,000, 5 a day and 8 APs per day. Etc, eventually coming down to needing something like 10-15 dailies completed, and only getting 1 AP per day for the effort.

 

So with where I'm at (around 23-24k) I would need ~15 dailies for 1 measly AP? Absolutely not. What about those who have even less time to play the game than I do? All this does is punish those who **WANT** the AP from dailies, as well as punish those who have been around longer.

 

The 15k AP from dailies+monthlies was enough (I honestly don't care if they up the limit or remove this cap, it doesn't and won't affect me). Your "solution" is ridiculous as it punishes players for playing more instead of rewarding them.

 

The *original* idea was a decent one, but yours...absolutely not.

[Zania.8461]

I am trying to figure out the point of this thread.

There are only two reasons for getting higher AP - skins and leaderboards.

 

By introducing uncapped daily achievements not only do you devalue the skins, you also devalue all the non-daily achievements. Why would anyone even consider farming thousands of trident kills for 5ap when you can just wait a day, do 3 (or 5, or 10) trivial tasks and get 10? If you have your daily capped but aren't at 30k+ total, you are sitting on thousands of AP worth of permanent APs you could do.

 

I don't see leaderboard people wanting to have to chase daily 5, 10 whatever tasks a day just so they can stay competitive either. I suspect they would rather pour that time extracting those few hard-to-reach permanent APs to add to their count instead.

 

Overall I feel that the proposed system mostly benefits the portion of the population that enjoys grinding mindless tasks.

 

On a personal level I believe that having daily AP is a bad idea to begin with as they aren't achievements and don't show anything other than ability to log on to do several daily tasks. What I would like to see is the daily AP being completely removed from AP count and instead being introduced as PvE reward tracks (similar to sPvP/WvW) where each daily task you do increments your advancement toward goal by 1 pip. That way grinders can grind the reward tracks fast, and those who aren't interested in grinding can just work on permanent APs which would still be used for current (re-calculated) rewards.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > In https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/23795/pve-dailies#latest, Dashiva had an excellent idea:

> > >

> > >> @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> > >> I am fine with the normal dailies as it is. Plenty of options and usually varied and easy enough. I am however quite bored with the repetitive map-specific dailies in the LW-maps.

> > >>

> > >> I have been wondering lately if the pve-dailies should be split up between "expansions":

> > >>

> > >> * 4 Core dailies

> > >> * 4 LS2 dailies

> > >> * 4 HoT dailies

> > >> * 4 LS3 dailies

> > >> * 4 PoF dailies

> > >> * 4 LS4 dailies

> > >>

> > >> and so on.

> >

> > > I LOVE this idea! It makes great sense, and the only downside is the length of the list. It should be not only trivial to code, but actually easier and less error-prone than the current system (which has to compare specific daily types across expansions).

> >

> > This thread assumes two things. First, that something like Dashiva's idea gets implemented, and second that the daily achievement point (AP) cap is not a good thing. If you disagree with either premise, please either ignore this thread or avoid commenting on these premises. All other posters: please ignore arguments against either of these two conditions, so the thread doesn't get derailed.

> >

> > My idea is that instead of a hard cap, daily APs be made successively harder to obtain, and/or have lesser value at completion.

> >

> > Previously, I and many others have suggested using diminishing returns. But, with 24 dailies (Dashiva's idea) to choose from, ANet could, instead of (or, in addition to) the diminishing returns, raise the requirement for further daily APs.

> >

> > For example, at 5,000 AP, players would need 4 dailies per day, and obtain only 9 APs for completing them. After 10,000, 5 a day and 8 APs per day. Etc, eventually coming down to needing something like 10-15 dailies completed, and only getting 1 AP per day for the effort.

> >

> > NOTE: The exact numbers in the example above is for illustration only.

> >

> > 2nd NOTE: It's possible that PvP and WvW dailies might need reworking as a result of this idea. But, because I barely play WvW and never PvP, I can't comment intelligently on that.

>

> You do realize there's already a cap on how much AP you can obtain from dailys, right?

 

See the second half of my second sentence.

[Daddicus.6128]

For those of you who can't see why I'm excluding discussion on the two premises: it's that we've already talked about them. Nobody is going to change their minds, so I don't want this thread derailed.

 

This thread's purpose is for ANet, in case they hold that the cap isn't such a great idea, but they don't want to eliminate it completely, either. I don't know what ANet's position is, because they have never stated it. I'm HOPING they realize that it's not a good solution, and this idea offers a way they can partially remove it.

[Pifil.5193]

Edit: the necroing post was deleted, never mind.

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

Removing the cap altogether could make the feeling of progression return to the people who have been struggling to get AP. This said most people who are at the cap are at or over 30000 AP now.

 

I'm not putting in much effort anymore as I feel, since I got my 30k rank myself, and am at cap. The possibility aquiring the rewards at 33k and 36k seems distant and even impossible to secure for me anyways. This also means I moved away from GW2 more and more in the past year. I have played Gw1 and Gw2 with pleasure, but the hopelessly stretched out achievements are no fun and give me no feeling of accomplishment or progression at all.

 

The problems regarding cap are still relevant, however. And necro-ing some well documented suggestions could give the suggestions a tiny bit more incentive to look at and evaluate.

[Randulf.7614]

It's not the cap on dailies I have an issue with, the cap makes good sense to me (they are an entry level boost which is fair to all players which then should continue with the obtaining of more actual achievements).

It's the low amount of AP per episode that continues to concern and bewilder me. Given the comments of the team when it was raised and we did get replies about it, I think I'm safe in assuming no real change will come, no matter where you stand on the AP argument. AP just isn't something they feel is worthwhile from what I can see.

 

Edit..Oh it was a necro post. Never mind then, I didnt catch that

[Zania.8461]

Few things:

1) I disagree with your premises, and feel that asking everyone outside of those who support your premises to stay out of discussion is counter productive.

2) This suggestion will go directly against the reason why the cap was implemented in the first place and why we have multiple venues for getting daily AP - the fact that ANet does not want people to feel obliged to log in daily to chase the daily AP carrot forever AND the fact that they wanted people to get AP by playing the game mode they prefer. Your proposal will not only push people into daily logging in to keep their AP up it will also force them to spend progressively longer periods of time just to get that AP. As the permanent AP is capped, this proposal WILL force people with 35k+ (who who care about staying on top of leaderboard ranking) do 20+ dailies a day just so they don't fall behind.

3) I am perplexed that people somehow associate the feeling of progression with their daily AP. To me progression has to involve doing something with game other than doing the same trivial tasks every day. Personally I would have not given any AP for daily tasks to begin with.

 

I have my daily AP capped. While I complete my daily most of the days, I do NOT want it to give me more AP, especially with progressively large time investment. My OCD is strong enough that I will spend hours doing those dailies then burn out and quit.