Firebrand Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

Great changes, definitely the right step to make Firebrand meta.

[LetoII.3782]

> @Sao.7146 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

> > >

> > > Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

> > >

> > > Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

> > >

> > > Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

> >

> > 0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

> >

> > Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

> >

> > Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

>

> Conjure Flame Axe 0.25s Conjure Frost Bow 0.25s Conjure Lightning Hammer 0.75s Conjure Earth Shield 0.75s Conjure Fiery Greatsword 1s

 

What's the cast time for attunement changes? Tomes aren't an elite

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > @otto.5684 said:

> > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > > The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

> > > > >

> > > > > Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

> > > > >

> > > > > Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

> > > >

> > > > 0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

> > > >

> > > > Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

> > > >

> > > > Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

> > >

> > > Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

> > >

> > > Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

> > >

> > > Thing is we have access to **three** tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

> >

> > This is cherry picking at its finest. SoC, the most important of the virtues, for surviving, has 0.25 sec cast and yet you did not mention it at all. SoJ used to be 0.25 till very recently. It does not require "stowing" and is unblockable. The comparison with ToJ, that requires initial stowing, blocks all your other damage skills and the other 2 Tomes, is just wrong on every level.

> >

> > The tomes promise you higher reward if you stow them and spend the time using. See the "time" is the key here. Yes, if I cast "all" ToR skills I will probably get better reward than WoR. But when you factor in the time, the lock out your weapon skills and other tomes, the trade-off has been significantly in favor of virtues (DH or Core).

>

> That's subjective. Think of it as dipping in, dipping out--use the tome, stow the tome. It's not like you'll constantly be using tomes--they even have CDs.

>

> I admit removing cooldowns on tomes would feel better, but 0.5 seconds is barely anything... it's so trivial that it shouldn't hamper the ability to use the tomes like ya'll are exaggerating.

>

> Yes, some of the tome skills feel slow, but others are faster (ToC).

>

> Quickness is mostly baseline (unlike Chrono) because it's made to quickly cast tome skills, them dip out. Because it's baseline, ANet made it clear that the intention was to "dip in/out" not camp in the tomes.

>

> So, yes. The tome cast time may not be necessary. But it's trivial in my opinion.

 

When you get full cd regardless of how many skills you use, tomes are very much not designed for '"dipping in and out".

[Abelisk.4527]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > @otto.5684 said:

> > > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > > > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > > > The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

> > > > >

> > > > > 0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

> > > > >

> > > > > Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

> > > > >

> > > > > Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

> > > >

> > > > Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

> > > >

> > > > Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

> > > >

> > > > Thing is we have access to **three** tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

> > >

> > > This is cherry picking at its finest. SoC, the most important of the virtues, for surviving, has 0.25 sec cast and yet you did not mention it at all. SoJ used to be 0.25 till very recently. It does not require "stowing" and is unblockable. The comparison with ToJ, that requires initial stowing, blocks all your other damage skills and the other 2 Tomes, is just wrong on every level.

> > >

> > > The tomes promise you higher reward if you stow them and spend the time using. See the "time" is the key here. Yes, if I cast "all" ToR skills I will probably get better reward than WoR. But when you factor in the time, the lock out your weapon skills and other tomes, the trade-off has been significantly in favor of virtues (DH or Core).

> >

> > That's subjective. Think of it as dipping in, dipping out--use the tome, stow the tome. It's not like you'll constantly be using tomes--they even have CDs.

> >

> > I admit removing cooldowns on tomes would feel better, but 0.5 seconds is barely anything... it's so trivial that it shouldn't hamper the ability to use the tomes like ya'll are exaggerating.

> >

> > Yes, some of the tome skills feel slow, but others are faster (ToC).

> >

> > Quickness is mostly baseline (unlike Chrono) because it's made to quickly cast tome skills, them dip out. Because it's baseline, ANet made it clear that the intention was to "dip in/out" not camp in the tomes.

> >

> > So, yes. The tome cast time may not be necessary. But it's trivial in my opinion.

>

> When you get full cd regardless of how many skills you use, tomes are very much not designed for '"dipping in and out".

 

How often do you use Shield of Courage? Every 5 seconds?

 

Nope, and the tomes aren't either.

 

Honestly I think Justice should be reduced to 20 or 25, but I think, when coupled with Virtues, the CD will be enough. ALSO fun fact: ToC has a lower CD than SoC.

 

I mean people can play however they want, if you wanna go high risk high reward then you could camp. If you wanna be safe, you can stow early.

 

Core guard, in comparison, treats Virtues as buffs which are instantaneous. If you treat Firebrand that way, I think you could make it work really well. Drop a few supports here, etc there and you'll be golden.

 

Oh and another thing: Renewing Focus refreshes the tomes so you'll have even more opportunities to do stuff.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > @otto.5684 said:

> > > > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > > > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > > > > > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > > > > > > The change above is a L2P change but 100% a buff.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also I'm surprised at how the cast time is still being pointed out. 0.5 is really short of a cast time imo...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mantras I feel were introduced to cover 1 utility slot, 2 at most, and maybe the heal/elite. With their small use I think they're good in their current state. Kinda like Glyphs from Druid.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Overall this is very exciting and promising! Looking forward to be playing firebrand soon. =)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 0.5s is 0.5s higher than similar skills.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Attunements, Death/Reaper Shroud, Berserk, Celestial Avatar, Beast Mode, Photon Forge. All of them, every single transform/skill swap profession mechanic is instant cast. So don't tell me "oh the cast time is low enough", for other classes, the baseline is 0s, instant cast, as low as it gets. Guardian gets a minor improvement, and we are supposed to be thankful for the "buff".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Druid's glyphs don't have the same radius problems, they are 300 radius AoEs, so bad comparison. Doubly bad, because you chose the one skill type that is regularly used for every single of the 5 slots in raid builds.

> > > > >

> > > > > Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

> > > > >

> > > > > Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thing is we have access to **three** tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

> > > >

> > > > This is cherry picking at its finest. SoC, the most important of the virtues, for surviving, has 0.25 sec cast and yet you did not mention it at all. SoJ used to be 0.25 till very recently. It does not require "stowing" and is unblockable. The comparison with ToJ, that requires initial stowing, blocks all your other damage skills and the other 2 Tomes, is just wrong on every level.

> > > >

> > > > The tomes promise you higher reward if you stow them and spend the time using. See the "time" is the key here. Yes, if I cast "all" ToR skills I will probably get better reward than WoR. But when you factor in the time, the lock out your weapon skills and other tomes, the trade-off has been significantly in favor of virtues (DH or Core).

> > >

> > > That's subjective. Think of it as dipping in, dipping out--use the tome, stow the tome. It's not like you'll constantly be using tomes--they even have CDs.

> > >

> > > I admit removing cooldowns on tomes would feel better, but 0.5 seconds is barely anything... it's so trivial that it shouldn't hamper the ability to use the tomes like ya'll are exaggerating.

> > >

> > > Yes, some of the tome skills feel slow, but others are faster (ToC).

> > >

> > > Quickness is mostly baseline (unlike Chrono) because it's made to quickly cast tome skills, them dip out. Because it's baseline, ANet made it clear that the intention was to "dip in/out" not camp in the tomes.

> > >

> > > So, yes. The tome cast time may not be necessary. But it's trivial in my opinion.

> >

> > When you get full cd regardless of how many skills you use, tomes are very much not designed for '"dipping in and out".

>

> How often do you use Shield of Courage? Every 5 seconds?

>

> Nope, and the tomes aren't either.

>

> Honestly I think Justice should be reduced to 20 or 25, but I think, when coupled with Virtues, the CD will be enough. ALSO fun fact: ToC has a lower CD than SoC.

>

> I mean people can play however they want, if you wanna go high risk high reward then you could camp. If you wanna be safe, you can stow early.

>

> Core guard, in comparison, treats Virtues as buffs which are instantaneous. If you treat Firebrand that way, I think you could make it work really well. Drop a few supports here, etc there and you'll be golden.

>

> Oh and another thing: Renewing Focus refreshes the tomes so you'll have even more opportunities to do stuff.

 

Tomes are not tuned to provide as much utility upfront as WoR or SoC.

 

ToR has some burst cleansing, but you have to camp it if you want to get healed for anything close to the same amount as WoR (or even VoR). It doesn't help that guardian has been traditionally balanced around our F2, so that all our heal skills have big cooldowns.

 

And ToC doesn't have any single high impact skill, comparable to the utility SoC provides. Closest thing is the bubble, and this is where cast times hurt so much, having a 1s delay on a purely reactionary skill set significantly reduces it usefulness.

 

There's also the issue of tomes being interruptible, which is a huge deal. Nothing justifies that, when you can't interrupt skills like Celestial Avatar, I don't see why it has to be different for tomes, or how balance dictates such a thing. Again, especially considering that guardian is balanced around F2, otherwise I would like to see at least one of our heal skills to be reduced to 20s, like how every other class has a low cooldown heal option.

[LetoII.3782]

Litany of wrath gets fairly close to 20s with valor.

But yeah, Firebrand is going to get destroyed by interrupts. Thieves running pulmonary impact especially. A few days after the patch goes live the general population will know this and solo FB will be their favorite treat.

Even as a dragon Hunter I expect a fun time. Lots of time to pewpewpew between 1200 and 120 range, and if they do survive to get in melee range , well they won't.. because they can be left in the dust at will. But if they do by some miracle LB4 punt puts them right back at range AND shuts down whatever tome they were opening.

 

It's gonna be a slaughter

[Zenith.7301]

> @LetoII.3782 said:

> Litany of wrath gets fairly close to 20s with valor.

> But yeah, Firebrand is going to get destroyed by interrupts. Thieves running pulmonary impact especially. A few days after the patch goes live the general population will know this and solo FB will be their favorite treat.

> Even as a dragon Hunter I expect a fun time. Lots of time to pewpewpew between 1200 and 120 range, and if they do survive to get in melee range , well they won't.. because they can be left in the dust at will. But if they do by some miracle LB4 punt puts them right back at range AND shuts down whatever tome they were opening.

>

> It's gonna be a slaughter

 

PI daredevils are slaughtering anything that's not a scrapper or DH already anyways. That's more a problem with PI being ridiculous as well as the incredibly cheap cost of headshot.

 

Your worry with firebrand should be the fact that guardian has no ranged condition weapon and firebrand doesn't seem like a spec that's too well built to thrive in a front line.

[Unknown.3976]

I assumed Stalwart speed has been fixed? During the preview, stalwart speed was granting an incredible amount of quickness as if the icd didn't exist.

[Assic.2746]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> Anet, Stoic Demeanor is a boring trait. And it's pretty bad, too. It's not GM worthy.

>

> How about using that slot to give a unique toy to Firebrand, eh? Transfer the slow to Mantra of Truth, it could use a bit more utility, since it's primarily focused on damage mitigation thruogh conditions, and slow fits to that.

>

> NEW: Stoic Demeanor

> When aegis you apply blocks an attack, it will continue blocking for 0.75s

 

That would be insanely strong. Considering you can pretty much spam Aegis. Adding ICD would ruin it. Cause in a long fight you won't be able to predict when the trait is up. I also dislike Stoic Demeanor. This trait has nothing to do with Firebrand mechanics.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Assic.2746 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > Anet, Stoic Demeanor is a boring trait. And it's pretty bad, too. It's not GM worthy.

> >

> > How about using that slot to give a unique toy to Firebrand, eh? Transfer the slow to Mantra of Truth, it could use a bit more utility, since it's primarily focused on damage mitigation thruogh conditions, and slow fits to that.

> >

> > NEW: Stoic Demeanor

> > When aegis you apply blocks an attack, it will continue blocking for 0.75s

>

> That would be insanely strong. Considering you can pretty much spam Aegis. Adding ICD would ruin it. Cause in a long fight you won't be able to predict when the trait is up. I also dislike Stoic Demeanor. This trait has nothing to do with Firebrand mechanics.

 

A 0.75s will rarely block more than 2 attacks. It only really shines again multiple players. Still, let's reduce it to 0.5s block. The point of this trait is so that aegis is not completely useless against multiple players, and especially in wvw.

 

Aegis is somewhat spammable, but not extremely so. ToC will only provide a maximum of 5 stacks of aegis. Even if you space them perfectly, it's still only a 2.5s block. Base guardian has Retreat, mace and shield, with 1 stack each.

 

So, when it comes to giving aegis to allies, under perfect conditions, you can block for 4s. DH can do the same with 1 skill and less headaches.

 

Compare that to mesmer that can give people straight-up invulnerabilty for 1 second per pop. It requires a signet build, sure, but it's available to the base class for all specs, and it's vastly superior to a simple block. For guardian, it will only be available to a single spec.

[Brutaly.6257]

ToC provides 8 aegis (traited for extra pages) if i understand the change they announced correctly, 16 with RF. it was 8 during beta when trating Tomes fully.

MoS 3

retreat 1

Shield 1

Protective reviver 1

Retaliatory subconsious 1

 

These are the ones i played with in beta and also intend to use to night This is also the reason why i think people underestimate the FB in one on one situations, its possible to avoid 20 attacks by using instant casts or cast with no cd and/or short casting time. Players that have the timing will be menaces and the ones that lack timing will be easy prey.

 

With an ample amount of healing power each can heal for approx 1200 so the ones you can control heal for about 24k and can be casted in about 10 seconds.

 

If we use 0,5s that is 10 seconds of blocking.

 

I would prefer that aegis instead would stack in intensity like stability. This would also make the boon more unique to guardians since no other profession can spew out aegis in the fashion a guardian can.

 

 

[Alchimist.4738]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > Spear of Justice is 0.75 cast time. Wings of Resolve is 1 second cast time. Tomes are 0.5 second cast time. Tomes offer more than DH virtues.

> DH virtues have cast times, but you get immediate result when the cast time is over. When you finish casting the tomes, you get nothing, you have to cast another skill to start benefiting from them. The cast time is accumulative, resulting in cases like needing a full second to cast the F3 bubble, which is too late if you under fire.

>

> > Elixir X? 1 second. Tornado 1 second.

> Those are skills, not profession mechanics.

>

> > Thing is we have access to **three** tomes. If all of them were instacast it would be OP.

> The 3 tomes replace our profession mechanic, they are not free. Meanwhile, Druids get a completely new set of skills on top of their existing profession mechanic.

>

> > @Sao.7146 said:

> > Conjure Flame Axe 0.25s Conjure Frost Bow 0.25s Conjure Lightning Hammer 0.75s Conjure Earth Shield 0.75s Conjure Fiery Greatsword 1s

> And none are profession mechanics. They also create 2 transforms, not 1.

>

 

Yes, let’s compare what’s comparable, tomes are a profession mechanic transforming weapon skills, similarly to Photon Forge, Shroud, and Celestial Avatar, but unlike those, tomes also have high cooldowns plus a unique resource management, and obviously tomes don’t have an instant cast when the others are instant.

And the lack of instant cast is exactly the issue, because it means in sPvP you’ll get interrupted whenever you want to use Resolution to heal your teammates, unlike Celestial Avatar for the same purpose, or Justice to damage your foes, unlike Photon Forge, in WvW it’ll be worse, and it also means you won’t have the ability to react as quickly for panic heal or panic missile reflection for example, and this fluidity to move to your profession mechanics is more than useful in hardcore PvE, if you play Druid you probably know that.

 

Now you could argue that Dragonhunter’s virtues also have a cast time and can be interrupted, but those are active skills which gives results immediately, and are more akin to secondary weapon skills than a secondary weapon skills swap, you can also argue that with quickness this is not so much of an issue because the cast time goes to 0.25s. now, but having a profession needing a specific boon to get the better of its own mechanic is simply not good.

Of course tomes are more powerful than Celestial Avatar and the other mentioned weapon skills swap mechanics, simply because you’ve three of them, but tomes also have one core limitation: They’ve high cooldowns, respectively 30s., 40s., and 50s. (25s., 34s., and 42s. with Virtues), unlike the other mentioned professions mechanics which have a 10s. or less cooldown, so with tomes you can’t go in and out as easily and you won’t use them as often, and this is a huge drawback.

 

Pages are also another factor to take into account because once you stow your tome you’ll lose pages you didn’t use, unlike astral force or life force which accumulate between two uses. This is going to particularly affect Resolution and Courage, because most of the times there is no point in using all of your pages, here are few examples.

For Resolution in every game modes there is no point in keeping the tome activated if you healed your team with two or three pages, and if you play with healing power this is probably what’s going to happen, if you’re not playing with healing power you won’t use Resolution that much, in PvE probably never, and sPvP/WvW when your heal is down but even then you won’t keep the tome activated for long because it’s a huge down-time for your dps rotation, so you’ll end up wasting pages and still have a rather high cooldown.

For Courage you’ll probably never use it in condition builds, at least in PvE, because it’s also a down-time in you rotation where you deal no damage and because it’s not your job to apply boons, and in sPvP/WvW you’ll use it either at the beginning of a fight, to have a smoother engagement, or during the fight to mitigate while you wait for your heal or other skills to be available; as for tank/support build in PvE there is no point using all of the pages of Courage to mitigate damage or crowd control, because you’ll probably use Courage if you other mitigation skills (weapon or utility) are down, therefore you’ll use few pages until those skills are up again, but in sPvP/WvW you might want to use as many pages as possible to support.

 

This is why I don’t think the activation time on tomes is a good idea, but as I said few pages ago I’ll still try the new activation time before whining, and also why pages don’t feel as good as life force when both are basically resource management, but honestly pages don’t bother me as much.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Brutaly.6257 said:

> ToC provides 8 aegis (traited for extra pages) if i understand the change they announced correctly, 16 with RF. it was 8 during beta when trating Tomes fully.

> MoS 3

> retreat 1

> Shield 1

> Protective reviver 1

> Retaliatory subconsious 1

 

Yes, if all your aegis block an attack, and you space them out perfectly, and you dedicate multiple traits/skills to it, and you burn all your cooldowns, including your only defensive skills, and there is no boon strip, you can get the numbers you describe. But that will never happen.

 

If you want to talk unrealistic scenarios, DH with Bulwark, Courageous Return and Renewed Focus can block for 15s. And that's without the amount of dedication you describe, and a lot more practical and realistic. In fact, F3 -> revive -> F3 is a bread-and-butter play in pvp, and that's already 10s of blocking.

 

God forbid, guardian's support spec is allowed to provide unique utility to its team. Meanwhile scourge can spam 10k barriers.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > ToC provides 8 aegis (traited for extra pages) if i understand the change they announced correctly, 16 with RF. it was 8 during beta when trating Tomes fully.

> > MoS 3

> > retreat 1

> > Shield 1

> > Protective reviver 1

> > Retaliatory subconsious 1

>

> Yes, if all your aegis block an attack, and you space them out perfectly, and you dedicate multiple traits/skills to it, and you burn all your cooldowns, including your only defensive skills, and there is no boon strip, you can get the numbers you describe. But that will never happen.

>

> If you want to talk unrealistic scenarios, DH with Bulwark, Courageous Return and Renewed Focus can block for 15s. And that's without the amount of dedication you describe, and a lot more practical and realistic. In fact, F3 -> revive -> F3 is a bread-and-butter play in pvp, and that's already 10s of blocking.

>

> God forbid, guardian's support spec is allowed to provide unique utility to its team. Meanwhile scourge can spam 10k barriers.

 

 

U dont have dev's playing Guardians, and if so they are nab trappers (that only wins on power creep momentum) mostly play necros, mesmer and engi for sure, and this is a game to carry players on offense(so bad plaers dont need to be actualy decent to win its a matter of class and the spam), defensive nature classes like guardian will stay behind, to loose to offensive builds.

 

oh and balance as class design is for pve... as for WvW i cant wait for the sourge barrier zergs..

[Zenith.7301]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > ToC provides 8 aegis (traited for extra pages) if i understand the change they announced correctly, 16 with RF. it was 8 during beta when trating Tomes fully.

> > MoS 3

> > retreat 1

> > Shield 1

> > Protective reviver 1

> > Retaliatory subconsious 1

>

> Yes, if all your aegis block an attack, and you space them out perfectly, and you dedicate multiple traits/skills to it, and you burn all your cooldowns, including your only defensive skills, and there is no boon strip, you can get the numbers you describe. But that will never happen.

>

> If you want to talk unrealistic scenarios, DH with Bulwark, Courageous Return and Renewed Focus can block for 15s. And that's without the amount of dedication you describe, and a lot more practical and realistic. In fact, F3 -> revive -> F3 is a bread-and-butter play in pvp, and that's already 10s of blocking.

>

> God forbid, guardian's support spec is allowed to provide unique utility to its team. Meanwhile scourge can spam 10k barriers.

 

lol spam? You do realize condi scepter has no life force generation worth a damn and barrier activation requires life force....

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > @Brutaly.6257 said:

> > > ToC provides 8 aegis (traited for extra pages) if i understand the change they announced correctly, 16 with RF. it was 8 during beta when trating Tomes fully.

> > > MoS 3

> > > retreat 1

> > > Shield 1

> > > Protective reviver 1

> > > Retaliatory subconsious 1

> >

> > Yes, if all your aegis block an attack, and you space them out perfectly, and you dedicate multiple traits/skills to it, and you burn all your cooldowns, including your only defensive skills, and there is no boon strip, you can get the numbers you describe. But that will never happen.

> >

> > If you want to talk unrealistic scenarios, DH with Bulwark, Courageous Return and Renewed Focus can block for 15s. And that's without the amount of dedication you describe, and a lot more practical and realistic. In fact, F3 -> revive -> F3 is a bread-and-butter play in pvp, and that's already 10s of blocking.

> >

> > God forbid, guardian's support spec is allowed to provide unique utility to its team. Meanwhile scourge can spam 10k barriers.

>

> lol spam? You do realize condi scepter has no life force generation worth a kitten and barrier activation requires life force....

 

We are talking about support here. Firebrand can't spam aegis with the pure dps build, either.

 

Also, barrier stacks, so multiple scourges can work together in wvw, while aegis doesn't stack, and guardians negate each other's setup if they don't have the same traits.

[stone cold.8609]

I just wanted to thank Irenio and team for listening to the player feedback during the beta. This is the one spec that I played were I was able to see that it was noticeably improved from beta to launch by incorporating player feedback. I was not a big fan of how the spec played during the beta, but after the changes it has become one of my favorite PoF specs. Much of the clunky feel has been smoothed out. I really like the feel of the axe and tomes together which take guardian in a very interesting new direction. Great Job for what you've done so far!