Ascended Gear was a Mistake

[mercury ranique.2170]

When they launched the game, it was only needed for fractals. Nowadays it is only needed for high tier fractals and raids. Often you see LFG's looking for ridicilious proofs of specialism. But to be honest, having ascended should do it. I'm against gearchecks, but please add a name icon to those who have full set of ascended as proof they have it. And those idiots who are going to require it for something trivial als world bosses and dungeons are going to get punched in the noise personally by me ;)

[Pridedemon.3041]

> @"Jason.5983" said:

> > @"Pridedemon.3041" said:

> > Gosh some people will always complain. There are so many ways to obtain ascended gear from just playing that i am salvaging them quite frequently (not talking about rings). You have pvp dropping ascended boxes, i expect 1 ascended box per week from fractals, so many achievement giving away ascended gear, tons of collections for ascended weapons but people still complain.

> > If all else fails you can buy 2000 gems for $25, trade gems for gold and make a full set for a character. Combine this with a fact that once you make ascended gear its never going to get obsolete. The ascended sets that i made for my ele/ranger/warrior (one for every armor class) 3 years ago is still meta.

> >

> > Now compare this with wow, where with every new content patch you get a new armor/weapon tier and the old armor/weapon which you spend hundreds of hours acquiring from raids gets absolute. (This happens almost every 6-9 months when a new Raid is released).

>

> The meta has changed in that time, so you are pretty much lying or are averting to important information. Druid came about (zerk or healing gear), Ele become condition damage for a period. Warrior changed completely from power after HoT.

>

> After having made a new account. I can see perfectly why people are unhappy with the ascended armour system. One week for one box is pretty... brutal? I've farmed out fractals, dungeons and open world strenuously for a week on this new account, and my gold number has only just gone over 100, with only few materials saved for the potential of crafting an ascended backpiece etc. The amount of relics you obtain with lower-tier fractal dailies is fairly pitiful. I have seen the fractal ascended accessories etc that were added, but they seem a year off...

>

> OR as you said, you could pay $25 to unlock one character's worth of armour, which is more than most people pay nowadays for a Heart of Thorns key (and in that, far over 50% of the game). You either pay real money, or grind.

>

>

 

You know for a fact that you can change ascended armor stats right? It takes about 10g per piece and few skill points to do that (and if you are actively playing game then you will have more then you can ever use).

So 50-80g for changing ascended stats in 2 years, it it that bad? You can easily make twice that amount in a week by simply playing the game.

And this is an MMO, grind is the basis of any MMO. Grind in GW2 is much more reasonable then most other MMO's i have played. Seriously if you don't like to grind for gear then you shouldn't even be playing an MMO.

 

Then there is pvp, which doesn't require any gear, you can go naked in ranked pvp against a character who is full legendary and he will have 0 gear benefit over you. Now if you want to do top tier fractals and raids then needing a semi-grind gear is more then reasonable. You mostly need ascended gear for its infusion slots so unless you want to do T3/T4 fractals you can easily get away with a mixed of exotic/ascended.

[stone cold.8609]

I was playing when ascended was introduced and it was a huge mistake IMO. I've said so many time. But it's been in game for so long and I don't think it will ever be removed at this point. ANet was trying to shoe horn "progression" into a game that didn't need it and wasn't designed for it to satisfy a vocal part of the player base. Whether it worked or not, only ANet can say. Caught most people by surprise since ANet was pretty adamant that there would never be that type of progression in game. Also, there was very limited ways of obtaining it for the first few years - basically grind for time gated and account bound mats and grind to get your crafting levels up to 500 so that you could craft armor and weapons. Fractals, laurels, and guild commendations for accessories. That was pretty much it at the time. Also, no way to change stats on the weapons or armor when the game was updated/rebalanced so you needed to re-gear and do it all again. It was straight up an artificial time and money sink.

 

I'm still not a fan of ascended, but it's handled much better now than when it was introduced. There are many ways to get ascended weapons and accessories currently. I recently got 2 PoF ascended weapons collections finished without really trying, just by playing the game. The LS3 maps give many ways to get accessories (Winterberries, Jade, Flowers, etc.). You can change the stats on your armor and weapons fairly easily and for a moderate cost. The daily log in reward gives you a vision crystal every 30 days if you choose the ascended chest so that you don't ever have to grind for emperyal, dragonite, or bloodstone again for armor or weapons.

 

[FOX.3582]

Without grinding and doing only what I like and when I feel like it, I’ve managed to have 17 full ascended sets after five years of playing. Please stop crying...

[Professor Sprout.1560]

Independent of the question of what can be done about it (and there are still things which can be done) I think the topic raised by the OP is worth discussing just from the basis of theoretical game design. And for my own part not only do I agree with the OP I would go a lot further. Though I would not express myself in terms of "mistakes" if I had been given the responsibility of designing the gear system in this game then:

* There would be no ascended gear.

* Higher rarities of gear would not provide better bonuses to stats.

* Bonuses to specific stats would not be bound to specific pieces of gear.

* Gear would not provide bonuses to stats.

* There would be no intermediate stats (in the sense of base stats the can be customized by the player and which set the values for the player's derived stats).

 

Although perhaps somewhat radical, I am convinced that not only is functional gearing unnecessary for an MMO with GW2's business model to function, but it actually hinders and crowds out better alternative systems.

[xihorus.2804]

Ascended gear is not a barrier to any content in the game, save higher tier fractals. You are either forgetting or are unaware of the history of why ascended gear was added to the game. Originally it was just rings, explicitly added to introduce infusion slots onto gear for people who did fractals. In fact, there was a point where ascended rings had _less_ stats that an exotic with a slotted gem. Later, amulets and accessories were added to allow for more infusion slots for, again, _people who did fractals_.

 

At launch, you could only get exotic quality gear with the exception of legendary weapons, which had higher stats than their exotic counterparts. Legendaries were prohibitively expensive, so ascended weapons were added to provide players a means of getting the same stats as a legendary weapon without the massive material and time investment needed for a legendary. And so the trend continued, with ArenaNet adding ascended armor to allow for a completely ascended setup.

 

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> My friends feel that ascended gear was a mistake in game design. It serves as an artificial barrier for entry into content, over something as trivial as a 5-10% stat gain.

That barrier only exists for higher tier fractals, as you will probably need the extra infusion slots for more AR. It may create a psychological barrier, _but no other content actually requires you to be in ascended_.

 

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> In wvw it gives a noticeable advantage in what should be a somewhat fair pvp setting. 5-10% more damage on a full zerker or condi build especially on multiple targets is a lot of damage over time, enough to be noticeable, and enough to get you excluded from raiding guilds/commander squads and parties if you don't have it. wouldn't it be nice if it was all exotics, which are easy to get and nobody would really have to think about it or question whether or not your playing with max stats?

WvW has never been, nor will ever be a "fair pvp setting". Also you are ignoring how damage is actually calculated in this game - a 5-10% increase in stats does not directly translate into a boost in damage by 5-10%. I have never heard of anyone being excluded from a WvW squad for not having ascended. ( It's not like they can actually check anyways...) I have also never heard of any veteran WvW player tell others that ascended is "required" to be successful in WvW - most will tell you skill is more important than gear, and the difference between fighting in full exotics vs full ascended is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Strange as it might sound they did it because players kept on (and on, and on) asking for it.

Untrue. At the moment they've introduced it, almost noone was asking for it. What people asked was new maps, new events, new dungeons... so, new content. Ascended wasn't that (if you look at the posts from that time, you will see that many of the players asking about new content were also very aggresively _against_ introducing new gear tiers). It was merely a really cheap surrogate, that Anet introduced because they couldn't make what people asked for.

 

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> In fact, there was a point where ascended rings had _less_ stats that an exotic with a slotted gem.

That was never the case. All ascended rings had not only higher base stats, but also ascended tier jewels preslotted.

 

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> At launch, you could only get exotic quality gear with the exception of legendary weapons, which had higher stats than their exotic counterparts.

Again, not true. Legendaries had exotic-level stats then. They were bumped up to the ascended level only after ascended gear got introduced. You;re likely thinking about them getting a bump a month or two before ascended weapons appeared - that was a mistake that got almost immediately fixed.

 

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> WvW has never been, nor will ever be a "fair pvp setting". Also you are ignoring how damage is actually calculated in this game - a 5-10% increase in stats does not directly translate into a boost in damage by 5-10%.

Indeed. The multiplicative nature of damage calculations make the damage increase percentage _bigger_ than the percentage increase to stats. Originally, before critical damage-> ferocity change, berserker stat set damage difference between full exotic and full ascended was around 17-18%

 

 

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> Ascended gear is not a barrier to any content in the game, save higher tier fractals. You are either forgetting or are unaware of the history of why ascended gear was added to the game. Originally it was just rings, explicitly added to introduce infusion slots onto gear for people who did fractals. In fact, there was a point where ascended rings had _less_ stats that an exotic with a slotted gem. Later, amulets and accessories were added to allow for more infusion slots for, again, _people who did fractals_.

 

Ascended rings always had higher stats than exotic ones.

 

> At launch, you could only get exotic quality gear with the exception of legendary weapons, which had higher stats than their exotic counterparts. Legendaries were prohibitively expensive, so ascended weapons were added to provide players a means of getting the same stats as a legendary weapon without the massive material and time investment needed for a legendary.

 

Also incorrect. Legendary weapons at launch had the same stats as exotics. This remained true until Ascended weapons debuted in 2013, at which point Legendary stats were raised to match the new Ascended ones.

[xihorus.2804]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> Ascended rings always had higher stats than exotic ones.

When they were first released, ascended rings had higher base stats than exotics but you could not place gems in them. As I remember, because of this an exotic berserker ring with a Exquisite Ruby Jewel had higher stats than an ascended berserker ring. This was later remedied to include the stats of the gems, which is why some rings like [Ralena's Band](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ralena%27s_Band "Ralena's Band") have odd stats (Dire ring with a Rabid jewel).

 

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> Also incorrect. Legendary weapons at launch had the same stats as exotics. This remained true until Ascended weapons debuted in 2013, at which point Legendary stats were raised to match the new Ascended ones.

Checked some ancient reddit posts regarding this and I stand corrected - I didn't start working on my first legendary until after ascended weapons were released, so I was unaware that there was a point where they had the same stats as an exotic.

 

[Drecien.4508]

Ascended were put in to allow infusions. Without it being soooo much better than exotics. I've seen no instance of people requiring ascended gear for raids, fractals or wvw. Hyperbole.

[Mea.5491]

I used to think that Ascended gear was a mistake because back in the day when it was released it was expensive and tedious to get. But nowadays Ascended trinkets are basically free thanks to living world maps/currencies, the armor pieces and weapons are easy to craft, you can get many from collections and they have a chance to drop in every game mode. I got my Engi's full Ascended set as drops and I don't even do fractals where they drop like crazy...

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> My friends feel that ascended gear was a mistake in game design.

 

Have your friends played MMORPGs, like **ever**?

 

> It serves as an artificial barrier for entry into content, over something as trivial as a 5-10% stat gain.

 

Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

 

> In pve it serves as psychological barrier for players to constantly question and exclude others from fractals and raids. It also results in endless inquiries into whether or not you have ascended gear, and to show said ascended gear to everyone. I don't know why they didn't just stick with the GW1 philosophy of how gear was done, in that max level gear was easy to obtain, and thus end game content is easily accessible.

 

Endless? Really? That's so untrue, i couldn't begin to qualify it.

Dang, never in 5 years was i asked to ping my gear unless for cosmetic reasons (like people wanting to know what skin i'm using).

In fractals if i doubt your gear i'll ask you to stand on the agony circle at the lobby, if you die, you'll get kicked. Or we won't doubt you, and you enter a phase that has agony you'll insta-die, and you'll get kicked.

In all other PvE modes Ascended gear isn't a factor, unless you're speed clearing dungeons, and even then most of the time people won't ask for gear checks.

>

> In wvw it gives a noticeable advantage in what should be a somewhat fair pvp setting. 5-10% more damage on a full zerker or condi build especially on multiple targets is a lot of damage over time, enough to be noticeable, and enough to get you excluded from raiding guilds/commander squads and parties if you don't have it. wouldn't it be nice if it was all exotics, which are easy to get and nobody would really have to think about it or question whether or not your playing with max stats?

LOL fair pvp setting...

Also, lol at how suddenly 5-10% goes from being trivial to being so crazy an advantage...

>

> Ascended also isn't usable in spvp, but creates endless confusion in that most new players to spvp constantly ask if their ascended gear is needed to participate in spvp or if ascended alters their stats there in some way.

Well, that's less the fault of ascended gear, than people realizing that sPvP isn't gear dependant. They'd have the same issue with exotics.

>

> All i know is most games are gravitating towards leveling the playing field and gw2 straddles that line with ascended gear as a way of catering to people who want gear grind. Imagine playing PUBG, but some guy has 10% more health, damage and defense, simply because, he played more hours and grinded for those stats. Makes for silly game play that I'm not sure many would tolerate.

>

If you're going to compare a MMORPG with shooters, then yes, you're right... But if you want to compare MMORPGs with MMORPGs, Guild Wars has one of the most forgiving gear grinds in the industry.

 

[jbrother.1340]

> @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> When they launched the game, it was only needed for fractals. Nowadays it is only needed for high tier fractals and raids. Often you see LFG's looking for ridicilious proofs of specialism. But to be honest, having ascended should do it. I'm against gearchecks, but please add a name icon to those who have full set of ascended as proof they have it. And those idiots who are going to require it for something trivial als world bosses and dungeons are going to get punched in the noise personally by me ;)

 

You have the right idea you are just stating it badly.

 

Probably should go ahead and hold off on threatening others with violence no matter how innocent you feel it is...

 

Gear check and elitism stem far and wide in this world at every level. Even scabs have a level of elitism within that social realm... Perception is a messy business.

 

I never run into these issues with normal world boss or open stuff nor do I regularly see that requested in LFG...

 

I think people are overstating what is actually happening because they really believe in their own opinions. Just don't forget that they are just that.

 

If you don't like others opinions of what they want for their play time in the groups they are starting, then start your own guild/group/party FUN.

[mtpelion.4562]

Agony Resistance should have been an account bound stat (similar to Magic Find). This would have allowed Ascended gear to exist as a long term goal without also making it a barrier to entry for any type of content. Also, all gear should be normalized to Exotic tier stats in WvW.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't see a solution to this 'problem', though I can say it's way easier to get Ascended than it was when it was introduced, so the 'problem' of getting it has been alleviated quite a bit ...

 

... and as context, I can remember a time in this game when exotic get was hard to get too, simply because the drop rates for the mats were so low ... so any 'problem' that top tier gear is 'hard' to get is rather laughable. It's hard ENOUGH, but not TOO hard ... a perfect balance IMO. Players will ALWAYS use gear as a measure of high end readiness because it shows a player's willingness and drive to be successful, so any argument that it provides people a barrier to entry makes no sense. If it wasn't ascended gear, it would be Exotics ... and if raids were so easy that the gear to do it was as easy to get as that, no one would care what you wear ... case in point; current dungeon runs and low level fracs.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

>

 

yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

 

I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

[Vrita.7846]

Why are people still complaining about ascended gear when it's easier than ever to get it nowadays? I could understand if we went back in time to when it was first released, but now? T7 mats have dropped in price over the years, and gold is really easy to get, crafting your first set is quite easy even for a new player. After you've obtained your first set, it gets even easier to obtain future sets as you now have access to fractals, which not only drops armor and weapon boxes, but is an excellent source of gold.

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

I'll just say ascneded gear dropped extremely in price, and the number of ways to aquire it exploded. And since legendary gear came out the market is pretty much saturated...

 

You can get weapons, armor and trinkets from WvW, PvP, Crafting , Fractals, Raids and occasional drops in PvE

The cost of most mats at this time has dropped to 40% of their values 2 -4 years ago....

 

The ONLY thing whcih can be troublesome when crafting is augur stones cause the need to shell out spirit shards which are harder to come by when you're not mastery capped (for the content region).

 

I'm probably a bit biased as i have 26 ascneded armors and 150 weapons for my 23 characters, and my 24th has legendary armor, back and weapons, and the 1st trinket.

[Ziooo.8932]

People complain about everything omg! ascended is what, around 50g a piece? go play the game

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> >

>

> yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

>

> I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

 

Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

So why would they come here expecting it?

 

Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > >

> >

> > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> >

> > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

>

> Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> So why would they come here expecting it?

>

> Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

 

I'd encourage you to [Read This](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/ "Read This"). It's kinda long, but it might give you an idea where some of these people are coming from, not that it matters mind you, I mean, they are gonna deal with what they have or go cry off to another game.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> > >

> >

> > yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

> >

> > I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

>

> Nowhere, anywhere is there stated that this game only has one tier of gear. Not one of the points of sale for this game is that it only has one.

> So why would they come here expecting it?

>

> Not to mention that the OP's point of comparison is PUBG? Really?

 

I agree. I never saw anything said by Anet that the game would have only a single tier of gear. However, in the build up to launch, the game was marketed in a variety of ways. One of them included the following selling point:

 

"Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game."

-Colin Johanson

 

They got pretty close to that (from my experience) prior to the addition of ascended. My main was fully geared in exotics fairly shortly after reaching level 80. Not, "by level 80," but pretty close. Now those days are long past. The addition of ascended tier gear nullified that selling point but there really isnt any going back now. I took a break from the game over the addition, eliminated spending on the game for the most part (other than buying expansions), and don't feel the need to withhold my opinion when a thread wanders onto the topic, but its a decent game worth playing even if one of the major reasons for buying the game (for me) was eliminated.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > Just like every other gear check in every other MMORPG? Try doing Raids in WoW without the bear minimum gear, or join a decent guild in BDO without the proper gear score.

> >

>

> yah, but you gotta understand, if they wanted to play a game with a gear score, they would have gone and played a game with gear score and not come here.

>

> I am not saying that they should not suck it up and deal, and either git gud or move on.. just saying maybe they came here to get away from that, but sucks to be them right.. cause it's here now.

 

No, you need to understand that the gear score is a player-instituted thing. There is no such thing as 'gone to a game without a gear score' unless you play a game with no players ...

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"xihorus.2804" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > Ascended rings always had higher stats than exotic ones.

> When they were first released, ascended rings had higher base stats than exotics but you could not place gems in them. As I remember, because of this an exotic berserker ring with a Exquisite Ruby Jewel had higher stats than an ascended berserker ring. This was later remedied to include the stats of the gems, which is why some rings like [Ralena's Band](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ralena%27s_Band "Ralena's Band") have odd stats (Dire ring with a Rabid jewel).

 

Since this did not jive with my memory, I looked at the wiki history pages.

 

Currently, the ring of Red Death offers: 126 Power, 85 Precision, 85 Ferocity. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Red_Death

The earliest history entry with stats (26 Feb, 2013) shows: Power, 71+32 = 103; Precision, 50+18=68 and Critical Damage 4%+4% = 8%.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Ring_of_Red_Death&oldid=524647

 

So, yes, it looks like at least the Ascended 3 stat rings got a buff at some point. When is not clear as interim history pages dropped showing the stats until the 8 January, 2017 entry. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Ring_of_Red_Death&action=history

 

When I look at the Ruby Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker, I see: Power, 90; Precision 64 and Ferocity 64. With the jewel (25, 15, 15), that would make 115, 79, 79. That looks like it's more than the early version of the Ascended ring. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Orichalcum_Ring&oldid=1216902

 

However, looking at the history for the Orichalcum Rings, it looks like the exotic rings got a buff between the page revisions of May and June 2016. Prior, the stats were:

Power 75, Precision 53, Ferocity 53. Add in the jewel for 100, 68, 68. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Orichalcum_Ring&oldid=1207955

 

So, if those wiki history pages are correct, then not only did Ascended rings get a buff, Exotic ones did as well. Also, if correct, the initial difference was 3 power and 2% critical damage.

 

smh

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Ascended items were a mistake

Abandoning dungeons was a mistake

Forgetting WvW is in their game is a mistake

Having 1.5 person in charge of the balance is a mistake

Making elite specs SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than core is a mistake

 

GW2 is a mistake factory.