World Restructuring

[sephiroth.4217]

I hope WvW will still have low tiers for players like myself who enjoy smaller scale fights that don't have lag.

 

I've purposely stayed away from high tiers because running into fight and only having 1 skill work is not fun to me, I hate that sort of lag. "O hai I died because spamming my heals, condition cleanses and various other things still didn't activate the skill once"

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> The world’s population will increase based on the adjusted play hours of each of those players. This is the same idea for alliances. Alliances at the base level are just treating a group of guilds as if they were one large guild and assigning those players to the same world.

>

>

 

so if we play more/less, will we get sorted into higher/lower population alliances each reset? cuz that would be not so much fun for plenty of roamers / havoc people out there.

 

also, if our guild plays a lot but some people in it don't, would that prevent a guild from rising or falling in population? maybe said guild has a ton of pve people which people could game the system with.

 

will you actively kick afkers? cuz if you don't then this entire revamp will get messy quick. I'm talking about people with macros / or who come back to the game before the auto kick takes effect (think alt tab).

 

[Saniyah.1984]

> @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" said:

> > @"SailorSpira.9371" said:

> > 2) Titles based on old servers, will this be a generic "server" veteran, or could we please have something unique and relevant to each server like "Mag Swag" or "BeastGate" something that actually represents the community. One of my guildies also suggested that those with frequent transfers should be "World Traveler".

>

> This is also still being determined. We will keep those suggestions in mind though :)

 

Uhm I would hate it if the titles were like SUPER nice, but totally exclusive like "oh hey you never played WvW on this server, too bad" please make it so we can obtain any of the titles. It does not have to be free or easy, but

 

 

 

[Baldrick.8967]

> @"Mechanix.9315" said:

> > @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> > There has been a lot of discussion about the player “evaluation.” We already use play hours to determine population status of a world. With this system, moving people around ever two months we would like to track a few more things that can help us distribute players more effectively. One thing we are looking at tracking is commanding. Commanders are a big part of WvW no matter if your prefer scouting, roaming, running with a havoc squad or the zerg. Commanders are not the only piece to the WvW puzzle but they are a big piece. We would use commander time and squad sizes to determine a scaler to that commander players play time. For example, these are not the real values but I am not even a full cup of coffee in so for my sake I am going to make the math easy, PlayerA, PlayerB and PlayerC all play for roughly 100 hours a week. PlayerA commands smaller havoc squads, PlayerB is a PUG zerg commander, and PlayerC does not command. For all the time a commander is commanding squads let us say of more than two and less than size ten we’ll count those hours at a one and a half times multiplier and higher than ten we’ll count it at two times. If Player A were always commanding, in the small squad range, while playing their time, adjusted hours would be 150 hours. If PlayerB were always commanding, in the large squad range, while playing, their adjusted hours would be 200. Since Player C did not command their hours, remain the same at 100. Doing this can help us get more even matches. WvW is not completely a number of bodies game. A hundred veteran players will always beat a hundred casual players.

>

> Can you get these stats retroactively right? or the first "seasons" will be the test?

 

So, running tagless = solution, game the system. With guilds being the basis of alliances, there will be less need to tag up anyway. Now guilds will run tagless to avoid the hours counting double, meaning the rest of the population will have even less commanders to follow and even less reason to log into wvw?

 

Titles need to be obtainable by everyone. Don't make the same mistake as the original titles where people gamed the system to obtain 'ultimate dominator', etc as well as enormous numbers of wvw ranks (which they now benefit from with pips).

[Kilikina.1097]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Kilikina.1097" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > > @"Kilikina.1097" said:

> > > > As a few others have mentioned a good portion of the player base plays with multiple wvw guilds. I have an organized semi serious raid guild, a not serious but organized guild, and a kitten roamer guild. Plus the collection of friends from other guilds I would've joined but for the cap and random friends who rep their own guilds (think, Home BL Defense Roamer). I've been playing with these people for years. A decent part of the reason I've played this game through some of the rough patches has been because of the server community. I understand the need to rebalance, but there should be a way to do that without harming the amazing communities you've fostered over the years.

> > >

> > > It’s called have those guilds/players join an Alliance/Guild in an alliance to stick together...

> >

> > Except that's highly unlikely to work. How many serious guilds will want derby roamed and BL monitors in their alliances? Alliances will mostly be used by fight guilds stacking together or PPT guilds stacking together.

>

> Well if they don’t actually want to stay together and actively try to then what’s the issue? Oh right there isn’t one because the Alliance system addresses those issues, those players that want to stick together can form their own alliance, they don’t have to be beholden to another person to make the alliance and accept them in.wow what a Concept.

 

No, not all my guilds get along. Guilds argue and shift and break up and remake themselves constantly. Hell a few months ago a large guild imploded because one of the guild leaders decided to kick everyone, just because. But I'm sure you know all this and you are just being unpleasant because someone disagrees with you. Have a lovely reset anyway.

[Raymond Lukes.6305]

> @"Rampage.7145" said:

> @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" I think 8 weeks is way too much, it should be 2, 4 weeks tops i think so if you get a bad match up at least you are not stuck with it for 2 months, that will definitely make players quit in the long run. If you ask me i'd say match ups should be 24h only tbh get different people to fight everyday, that would keep the game fresh

 

Not McKenna but:

Eight weeks to a season is not set in stone. This is up for discussion but 8 weeks is what we currently have for re-linking.

[Lunacy Solacio.6514]

> @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> Posted an FAQ thread to address some of the common threads we were seeing in here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26877/world-restructuring-faq

> Now back to reading all of your posts...

 

Questioned that was raised in a discussion, and I'm hoping this and other things have already been discussed in a brainstorming session... Hadn't seen clear indication this directly was answered, but some allusions to it perhaps.

How will the system decide worlds for those that want to go in wvw for the first time/haven't been in wvw for weeks/months? Will they be pre-assigned a world or decided when they try to go in? Relatedly, would people be assigned a world even if they only play pve at this time?

By same token, if someone chose a wvw guild, but quit the game for an entire season or 2, how will they be assigned? If an entire wvw guild semi-quit for a season, then suddenly all came back, would that be addressed somehow? Could have questionable consequences if done en masse.

[Elknif.1805]

I'm just going to put my two cents in that the guild limit for an alliance should be pretty high to accommodate smaller guilds (< 50ppl) joining together. So a limit of 25-50 would be nice. Another option would be to increase the number of guilds an account can be in up from the current 5. This would allow people in smaller guilds that want to play together to form a larger wvw guild, while not having to give up their existing, established guilds.

[Alypsis.3425]

Question. So if the season starts and you have not ticked a guild as your WvW guild for whatever reason, new player, returning, have been inactive, have not read the changes etc, etc.. and you want to play WvW can you play? Where will you end up, on any non full world? What is the criteria used for where you will be assigned?

[Deimos.4263]

Just some rambling questions.

 

Right now guild membership is account-based, and guild representation is character-based. How would that work with the selection of a "WvW guild"? How often could I change which guild that is, and would it be for an account or a character? If I wanted to play on a different team in WvW, could I represent (or join) another guild? What about players who don't have a guild at all?

[Trae.2384]

Finally, I cant stand not being able to wvw with my entire guild. Im the only one not on the same server and of course its full so I couldnt transfer even if I was dumb enough to pay to.

[McKenna Berdrow.2759]

> @"Twyn.7320" said:

> Just for clarification: Is this just locked to WvW, or will it affect every other map in the game? So, if this system was a thing in the Crystal Oasis, would it have World 1, World 2 and World 3? And players from World 3 couldn't join World 1 if it had 90%+ capacity?

 

This is just for WvW. PvE will function as it does currently.

[Abrithil.4572]

> @"LordOtto.2650" said:

> So who don;'t have guild, like me or the majority on Desolation, will end up on a loosing server?! Ok I got it! This change will lover the population, and eventually bye bye WvW! Who taught about this is an idiot! I won't play as a Pug against full guild servers, kitten you all!

 

There's a guild in Deso literally called Deso Community [DC], no requirements whatsoever. So what are you on about.

[Donari.5237]

> @"StormPE.8201" said:

> **4. Role players exist in World vs World and their ability to find each other is being called into question.**

> * For those of us that don't participate in RP, what is WvW used for by your community?

I think this is a misunderstanding. The RPers aren't asking to be part of the WvW system, we're asking not to have the WvW system remove the one factor in assigning us to map instances that does not require us to have already listed friends or joined guilds. We want random RP encounters throughout the world.

 

> * Is creating a guild or alliance possible by your community to help you stick together and possibly create an even more close-knit group?

If alliances could be made unrelated to WvW designations, sure. But that does require knowing where to sign up.

 

> * Would creating a Teamspeak or Discord server help the RP community stay in touch and interact more in game?

I believe there already are large TS and Discord channels to serve the RP community of TC and PQ. However, it is not ideal to require people to use third party systems to find each other in game.

 

> * If a toggle for RP was added to the hero menu to help sort you into maps, would your concerns be alleviated?

Mine certainly would. It's what most of the RP-centered posts in this thread have been requesting, a means to flag ourselves so that we are more likely to find ourselves in PvE maps with other RPers. Some have added requests to create non-WvW alliances so that groups of RP guilds can end up sharing maps. That would be awesome, but as someone in a vastly shrunken RP guild, all I want is a way to be surrounded by people adding life and story to the world around me.

 

I've been on TC since the first BWE, and while the megaserver introduction caused much bitterness in me and others (see my archived forum posts on the topic), over time the algorithm seemed to improve to the point where I could stumble on RP even outside of cities, for which I must credit being a Tarnished Coast player, there being no other means by which the game would know to group me with RPers. Thus losing server identity and just being "NA" means losing that serendipity of spotting /say and /em lines that enhance the world for me.

 

I hope the devs monitoring this thread take strong heed of the concerns and solutions that I and others have offered herein. Only ANet folks know what programming challenges lie behind implementing the various solutions, but there must be *something* they can do to help us sort into maps with like-minded players. Earlier in this thread I suggested having players rank their playstyle preferences, but when it comes down to it if you're in a PvE map you're there to PvE or to RP (or to mix the two). So a simple toggle "sort me out with other RPers" should be enough.

 

Will some unpleasant-minded folks toggle it on just to find RPers to grief? Sure. Before the megaserver they guested to TC for the purpose. Right after the megaserver started, they manifested with a vengeance with nasty comments and aoe blasts on conversational groups (not to mention the bizarro behavior of stripping nude and dancing in our midst, which they always seemed to think stunningly original even though it's the most stereotypical way of acting stupid around RPers). But they were vastly outnumbered and multiply reported and it didn't work out very well for them. If RP-toggled people are the majority of a particular map, odds are against the griefers making any headway.

 

So please, ANet. With one little addition to this big system you're contemplating, with finally implementing a feature we've asked for since the megaservers began, you can make thousands of players ecstatic over the whole thing. Let us flag for RP and join maps with others who've flagged!

 

 

[Allisa Wonderland.8192]

For all the changes over the past year that have spread salt in my wounds.. this is NOT one of them!

 

Finally I can bring my friends, who are currently in other worlds and never willing to pay the cost of the game again just to experience WvW with me.

 

I expect there will be refinements as development progresses, but right now I’m thinking of all the new life this will breathe into my favourite mode.

[StormPE.8201]

@"Donari.5237" It seems to be implied that PvE will be remaining the same. If that's the case, you may draw more traction/attention to your RP community request in another thread. If McKenna could verify that for certain, I'm sure it would set a lot of the RP'ers in this thread at ease. Thanks for replying to my questions, I was of the impression that the RP community was frequenting WvW. This clarifies a lot.

 

 

Is this referring to all aspects of PvE shard assignment?

> @"McKenna Berdrow.2759" said:

> This is just for WvW. PvE will function as it does currently.

 

 

[Threather.9354]

**Regarding EU** (showing my support for the change, not a question for anet)

 

Boys, I am sorry but EU is experiencing same problems as NA. Of course its not as terrible as **Stackgate** but the bandvagoning is real on **EU ALSO**.

We have been trying to create friendly "willing to join ts and play decent class when necessary" communities on several places like Piken, Blacktide, Desolation, Vabbi, FSP etc.. But people/commanders just transfer to these servers to get carried in fights and don't contribute meaning we have to leave eventually because there is no fights left to be had and people don't join voice comms anymore.

 

Currently it is just a cycle of when you go in t1-t2 with high kdr, lot of bad commanders/players transfer PERMANENTLY to your server. **Now it will reset every 8 weeks**, meaning we have more control over who comes with our alliance and can prevent it growing to too stacked unless they're willing to pay thousand+ gems every 2 months.

 

Now what you will get:

- Keep your server vocal+scout community by making an alliance

- More control over who comes and goes from your "server"

- Balanced servers, No more 80 man riverside morningtrain without them hurting their other timezones.

- More fighting communities and regular commanders. Lot of commanders quit leading/transfer because someone else transfers to their server just to take their timezones fights.

- More guilds. PvE guilds can mark as WvW guilds and try WvWing, not all of them will stick but at least you will have more open/closed vocal groups.

- Chance to derp every 8 weeks with your guild/friends. Wanna go french for free? Do it. Wanna go NA? Do it. Wanna go to a random server for fun?

- Less stagnancy. Servers wont die from inactivity and people can't complain about other servers having too many players compared to theirs anymore.

- Possibility for anet to remove extra tiers when WvW becomes inactive and add more during summers when people are active, etc.

 

Yes sure you might lose chance of meeting your server friend that hasn't logged in last 6 months. But I feel like he isn't exactly contributing member in past 6 months.

 

Just organise it, its not that hard. You dont need to go with 500 people that you dont know if you're not part of any actual community. Make one with your friends. Add a few fun groups. 10-20 people should be enough to keep you entertained for 2 months.

 

If you're solo player and introvert, well, you can do your roaming and following commanders stuff with random alliance too...

 

**Overall this will be positive change for most**, only ones that will suffer are the ones that are incapable of organising things like setting discord server for their alliance and inviting their friends with them.

 

[sirjarros.4107]

This proposed change is pretty darn exciting for me. I'm open and curious to see how this unfolds!

 

My primary concern is over the need to choose only ONE guild as a personal primary. This creates an uncomfortable dilemma for players that belong to multiple WvW guilds that won't be forming an alliance together.

 

For example: I run a small havoc-style and roaming WvW guild. At least one of my other members belongs to a larger guild that has a different agenda and play style. And I won't ever form an alliance with them. So what happens when restructuring happens at the end of each season? Does he no longer have access to play with one of the guilds, even though has has regularly run with both?

 

In my opinion, if both guilds have deemed themselves WvW guilds, he should have the ability to play with them simply by repping which ever one he wants at any given time. Despite being in different match ups as well. Otherwise, this systems forces the player to make a gravely limiting choice, when for years now, he hasn't had to make such a decision and has had freedom to play with whichever guild he wants. That freedom of choice MUST be retained somehow.

 

Sure, it won't matter to some players. They'll just choose their favorite, where they play the most or feel most at home. But loosing the power to make that choice doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

 

My second, but lesser, concern is whether forming an alliance with other guilds will cause a loss in guild identity. I would hope that doesn't occur. Smaller servers have suffered loss of identity due to World Linking for a while now, in deference to the primary linked server. If smaller guilds in an alliance loose their identity to larger guilds, that would just be a disaster. I formed a guild for a reason. I'd like to keep it's identity alive and well, even in an alliance.

 

Thanks for listening! I'm ready fro change and eager to see what happens down the road!

[Substance E.4852]

So the fix is in.

 

-Obliterate all current server communities (Press F for the guys who keep the BG TS running).

-Doom all medium armor classes to unorganized pug world purgatory because no serious guild wants them.

-Create a near impossible barrier to entry for new players as organized alliance guilds will require experience that can only be gotten in their worlds

 

Are we witnessing the genesis of the greatest self own in Anet's history?

 


 

[Tiawal.2351]

Time spent in WvW shouldn't be the major factor in balancing, but performance. 10h Pip farming PPT can't be compared to 2h fighting and high KDR. Without the use of useful stats there won't be balance of any kind.

Player numbers without player quality considered will just recreate what we have now. Detailed Leaderboards are essential not just for balancing, but as tool to motivate participation and inspire improvement. Worse thing you can do is "balance" based on hours "spent" in WvW.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"SugarCayne.3098" said:

> Out of context that's a great response. Try pairing it with the rest of the comment.

 

It speaks to the rest of your post which is freely readable by anyone who cares to read it. If as a PUG you do care take active steps to get with the people you want to play with. If as a PUG you do not care, that is also a choice one makes. Anet probably can't fix Pug Mcspanky's apathy.

 

If you have a small guild why in the world couldn't you align or merge with a larger guild? Why couldn't you just join the larger guild and also keep your smaller guild? There are several different ways one could reasonably solve your proposed dilemma.

 

It reeks of the impression you're building a strawman to argue a non-issue. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there. I'm not much of a chatty type myself and it would be easy for most uninformed players to overreact to a big change like this.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

How are French/Spanish/German speakers divided if they were to fill several alliances?

 

For instance, if there are more French alliances than one world can handle do they both get evenly distributed or does one get an all-French world while the other is majority English minority French?

[Xelonir.5921]

> @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> There has been some talk about using Blackgate as an example in the post. Blackgate has been at the top of player activity hours in WvW for a very long time in NA. BG's numbers are twice as big as the average world on NA (without world linking) and 30% larger then the average NA host world. I'm not saying Blackgate hasn't suffered losses of players and coverage but BG is still on top for activity. IT'S NOT JUST BLACKGATE though.

> Here are all the worlds in NA and EU ordered by size names have been omitted to protect the innocent:

> 

>

 

Not showing server names is fine, but I think you should at least use different colors for EU and NA.

If, as some claim, it is only an NA problem, your solution is wrong.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Xelonir.5921" said:

> > @"Raymond Lukes.6305" said:

> > There has been some talk about using Blackgate as an example in the post. Blackgate has been at the top of player activity hours in WvW for a very long time in NA. BG's numbers are twice as big as the average world on NA (without world linking) and 30% larger then the average NA host world. I'm not saying Blackgate hasn't suffered losses of players and coverage but BG is still on top for activity. IT'S NOT JUST BLACKGATE though.

> > Here are all the worlds in NA and EU ordered by size names have been omitted to protect the innocent:

> > 

> >

>

> Not showing server names is fine, but I think you should at least use different colors for EU and NA.

> If, as some claim, it is only an NA problem, your solution is wrong.

Does it matter?

 

Different WvW design solutions for different regions is unfair no matter how you look at it - one of the solutions will be better than the other. It doesnt really matter if it's the current system or the new system or any other thing in the entire game.

 

I say we either all suffer or all win.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Silver.2076" said:

> Let's talk about the EU servers. There are currently national (DE, ES, FR, EN) servers there. Will the guilds of the servers be merged so that DE and FR fight for the same world?

>

> Personally, I think it would be great, because this way the cover can probably be better balanced. But it is no secret that it can also lead to problems.

 

Personally I've really enjoyed having all the western hemisphere languages intermingled on NA servers, not to mention our eastern hemisphere friends. Really feels like the kind of thing MMO's were made for when you're following a skilled group outside your time zone, not understand a word, yet still know what they're saying.. kinda xD