moutzaheadin.4029 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Hello , been playing Mesmer since release. After reading the changes to the profession , I let them sink in on just how exactly it will change the class. First the argument for the Nerf is , anet wants you to shatter more. Well , guess what. If you been playing a real shatter Mesmer you will be shattering less after this Nerf goes live. No more shattering pretty useless phantasms as they spawn. Torch phant and staff phant come to mind. Both are bad and make for good combo shatters. Plus with the trait you can shatter these useless phants 2x. It goes much deeper then that. But if you play a shatter Chrono you know exactly what I'm talking about. Secondly , phants like the disenchanter and idefender will be utterly useless after they cast 1 time and become a clone. The defender which is an amazing tool for offence and defense is going to be useless. Same as the disenchanter. Again , it goes deeper then that with the other phants but if I have to explain each and every phant there is a good chance you won't grasp the major nerf that it is in the first place. The alacrity Nerf is just what it is. Just the fact that is now a boon makes it inferior. Horrible changes , they take away choice. I'm not sure where you can make up the offence and defensive loss. A bunch of traits will now be scrapped aswell. What we really need to figure out is how can we somewhat fix the issues that I've mentioned. One would be to have a trait to allow shattering the phantasms as they spawn. As waiting for them to use there one attack then become a clone is a huge dps loss and waste of time. If they would fix the phantasms attacks that's one thing. But you know they won't. There for I prefer to shatter them when I see a good combo opportunity. Obs~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtegg.5216 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The one-shot phantasm concept lowers our ability to rally. Old Phantasms continued to DPS while the mesmer was downed, so we had a pretty good chance to rally thanks to their assisted DPS. Now that is gone. More mesmer's will be seeing that once they get downed their chance of rallying will be much lower now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 You could just not get downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The panic reaction is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moutzaheadin.4029 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 There's no panic , I'm telling you how it will be. It was clearly explained. It is a huge blanket nerf. It reduces the amount you can shatter in the name of change so you can "use your shatter skills" more often. It makes certain situational phantasms utterly useless. It's a total overnight overhaul in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Alright so it's a massive nerf, which you concluded after having no evidence, no idea what the full scope of the changes are and apparently completely disregarding the fact that all phantasm attacks as well as phantasm traits are getting an extensive rework. But it's not panic. Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 They will rework several phantasm related traits and skills, lets maybe wait with the panic until we have all informations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moutzaheadin.4029 Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 All you have to do is read the changes. My opinion is based on fact. I've read the changes and I've applied them to how it would play. It's a dsp loss if your a shatter Mesmer. If you is any phantasms utilities they are now useless. This is directly based on the upcoming changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Your opinion isn't based on fact. You don't know concretely what the actual changes are, you only have your basic conjecture of how you think it will play out. E.g. a subjective opinion, not objective. It can't be directly based on the upcoming changes because you don't know what they are. You literally have no concept of how will the class will play on Tuesday so no, you're panicking. That post isn't a list of changes, it details the concept they're going for. When you have an actual list of changes you can test and freak out about, go ahead and panic. Otherwise don't be that guy that screams nerf because something different is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Without knowing new cooldowns and damage modifiers its pretty hard to say anything on the mesmer changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Lol. Okay 1. You still get to shatter them in literally 1 second, after they use a powerful attack. 2. You don't know how exactly either of those will be changed, so you can't just say it's a nerf because it's different. You literally know nothing about how it'll work. 3. I mean you could call it a nerf if you want, but that depends a lot on the magnitude of the new phantasms, which again you don't know. 4. Eh, kinda. People are more concerned about quickness uptime than alacrity because of Tides of Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 5 Illusions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Just on the Phantom matter is kinda worry some. Cuz once cast there's no guarantee it lands it's hit before disappearing. Often it don't due to the speed the target running at. So thinking phantasm might actually be obsolete, & only will be use to secure Clones. Kinda meh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Given that phantasms will spawn a clone after they are destroyed, that makes every phantasm skill a delayed clone summon. The phantasms with the shortest cast times and attacks will likely be very good for this leading into shatter - there will just be a different rhythm for shattering. And it depends on your build. Yes it looks like Chrono could be severely nerfed when it comes to shatter spam involving respawning phantasms - maybe tough for those few zerker chronos in pvp or wvw roamers - but maybe that's how it should be. Maybe Chrono is going to become more of a support line even in pvp context. Power/Hybrid/Condi shatter gameplay is already superior on Mirage as it is. Personally as a dedicated Mirage that uses Deceptive Evasion with Axe, I'm savouring the fact I'll pretty much always have 3 clones up ready for Axe 3 -> F1 burst combos (I play hybrid in wvw), rather than a useless phantasm that can't teleport to my target on Axe 3. I'm also stoked that Staff 3 likely won't be useless anymore as at least it will generate a clone. I'm very happy that iMage is going to generate an Axe clone after it casts the burn - so I can follow that up with Axe 3 into shatter much faster given I'll only need to generate another couple of clones (a dodge+axe 2 will do that). But if you're a die hard Chrono then it's going to be a drastic adaptation to whatever they bring to it. The standard chronophantasma shatter spam isn't going to be a thing, but I'm sure creative types will make some kind of power shatter build work with Chrono. It'll likely just be better on Mirage or even Core mesmer. To summarise - there is no "shatter mesmer nerf" - only a possible shatter **Chrono** nerf due to no easy chronophantasma shattering. In fact there is likely a shatter mirage buff, and possibly even core mesmer shatter buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windwalker.7421 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 1. Read it on the Internet 2. It was written in ALL CAPS 3. It was using a large font size for emphasis!!! 4. It was 100% fact based according to the OP, whom is not a dev Conclusion. It MUST be true! Oh and he'll crown himself come tuesday no matter what the patch will be like. Five minutes after the patch he will be here telling us "I TOLD YOU SO!" (In larger font size of course.)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npmis.7860 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Basically every single change sucks, because you believe, that they didn't rework traits and skills or they didn't do it in a proper way. Do you have any extra information, that I don't have access to? If not, just wait and see. From a PvE perspective I'm very optimistic about the upcoming patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said: > No more shattering pretty useless phantasms as they spawn. Torch phant and staff phant come to mind. Both are bad and make for good combo shatters. Plus with the trait you can shatter these useless phants 2x. So what's stopping you from shattering the clone that's left behind? As soon as they execute the attack, you can shatter the clone, so how much of a delay is it really compared to shattering them immediately? And we don't know the exact changes. Since phantasms are only good for one attack, it could mean we will see some cd reductions, which would increase mesmer's clone generation capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said: > > No more shattering pretty useless phantasms as they spawn. Torch phant and staff phant come to mind. Both are bad and make for good combo shatters. Plus with the trait you can shatter these useless phants 2x. > > So what's stopping you from shattering the clone that's left behind? As soon as they execute the attack, you can shatter the clone, so how much of a delay is it really compared to shattering them immediately? First, the time will obviously depend on the Phantasms' attack. iWarden > iSwordsman and so on. Depending on your weapon set, there will *inevitably* be a delay when compared to the current iteration. Second, Chronomancers won't be able to shatter Phantasms twice because of the changes. This will most likely reduce their burst potential quite a bit (both, Condi and Power). But since most people are busy complaining about Condi Mirage they probably won't even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia.3598 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Personally the only thing im going to miss is iDefender for me at least it was one of favorite skills to use while chronoing pug fractals being the fact that it not only shared like 7 seconds of prot which I could signet but it also gave the best sustainable source of the guard buff which im pretty sure stacks with prot it made for such comfy pug running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghanto.9784 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > Lol. Okay > 1. You still get to shatter them in literally 1 second, after they use a powerful attack. > 2. You don't know how exactly either of those will be changed, so you can't just say it's a nerf because it's different. You literally know nothing about how it'll work. > 3. I mean you could call it a nerf if you want, but that depends a lot on the magnitude of the new phantasms, which again you don't know. > 4. Eh, kinda. People are more concerned about quickness uptime than alacrity because of Tides of Time. 1. - I'm not gonna join in the panic, lol, but it does sound like, from what I read, that the phantasms won't live long enough in most situations to use "a powerful attack" - the more people/npc's involved, the less likely they'll get anything off. I'm gonna take the wait and see attitude, though, because...well, it's not like we have a choice. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintrothen.1056 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"curtegg.5216" said: > The one-shot phantasm concept lowers our ability to rally. Old Phantasms continued to DPS while the mesmer was downed, so we had a pretty good chance to rally thanks to their assisted DPS. Now that is gone. More mesmer's will be seeing that once they get downed their chance of rallying will be much lower now. OMG! You're like the rest of us now! You actually have to rely on your own downed skills to rally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: >When you have an actual list of changes you can test and freak out about, go ahead and panic. But if the changes turn out to be good then we won't be able to panic, so it's better to panic now while we still can. PANIC!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said: > >When you have an actual list of changes you can test and freak out about, go ahead and panic. > > But if the changes turn out to be good then we won't be able to panic, so it's better to panic now while we still can. > > PANIC!!! > > Well... you're not wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MailMail.6534 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I've only read a bit of this thread, but it is CHOCK full of misinformation. I hate being that person who picks a part a person's post, sentence by sentence, but we have to be more responsible when describing our OPINIONS as "FACTS". These are radical changes. Panic is natural. Speculation is exciting. Fact checking should be required before you hit that post button. Ooo that tea on Azukas is delicious. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said: > There's no panic , I'm telling you how it will be. It was clearly explained. It is a huge blanket nerf. It reduces the amount you can shatter in the name of change so you can "use your shatter skills" more often. > > It makes certain situational phantasms utterly useless. > > It's a total overnight overhaul in the wrong direction. So did they add more details? The information I read said nothing specific regarding balancing this new iteration of phantasms or the traits that enhance them. So how do you know it's a nerf? I would expect there's going to be some give and take, but all in all I find it hard to imagine they could design anything worse than the current system. Summoning phantasms to do your job for you while you carefully avoid doing anything that might upset them is mind-numbingly boring gameplay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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