Worst class in the game right now?

[KrHome.1920]

Voted for rev because it's so bad that I even deleted mine (mained rev for sPvP season 1 and 2) which I would never do to necro because even if necro is underperforming in every skill based game mode (sPvP and WvW roaming) when there is no firebrand around and in PvE in general, it is at least very fun to play and has a big amount of variable playstyles.

 

As a rev you are messing around with the same underperforming as necro in some game modes on top of weird design like: cooldowns and energy management at once for no reason, one-dimensionality (condi weakness, hammer2 spam etc.) and limited 6,7,8,9,0 skill choices.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Voted for rev because it's so bad that I even deleted mine (mained rev for sPvP season 1 and 2) which I would never do to necro because even if necro is underperforming in every skill based game mode (sPvP and WvW roaming) when there is no firebrand around and in PvE in general, it is at least very fun to play and has a big amount of variable playstyles.

>

> As a rev you are messing around with the same underperforming as necro in some game modes on top of weird design like: cooldowns and energy management at once for no reason, one-dimensionality (condi weakness, hammer2 spam etc.) and limited 6,7,8,9,0 skill choices.

 

Turn back friend, necro pity party only

[lilnicky.9476]

Revenant, I love the class but I feel like there's just much work for it that needs to be done.

[Lily.1935]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Voted for rev because it's so bad that I even deleted mine (mained rev for sPvP season 1 and 2) which I would never do to necro because even if necro is underperforming in every skill based game mode (sPvP and WvW roaming) when there is no firebrand around and in PvE in general, it is at least very fun to play and has a big amount of variable playstyles.

>

> As a rev you are messing around with the same underperforming as necro in some game modes on top of weird design like: cooldowns and energy management at once for no reason, one-dimensionality (condi weakness, hammer2 spam etc.) and limited 6,7,8,9,0 skill choices.

 

Lack of options I can understand. I don't understand the deleting point though. If this was a viable reason in my opinion that would mean I should vote for Warrior. I've deleted like 3 level 80 warriors. I just don't enjoy warrior at all. Just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean its bad.

 

I happen to really enjoy revenant and find the little tech they do have to be incredibly useful.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Voted for rev because it's so bad that I even deleted mine (mained rev for sPvP season 1 and 2) which I would never do to necro because even if necro is underperforming in every skill based game mode (sPvP and WvW roaming) when there is no firebrand around and in PvE in general, it is at least very fun to play and has a big amount of variable playstyles.

>

> As a rev you are messing around with the same underperforming as necro in some game modes on top of weird design like: cooldowns and energy management at once for no reason, one-dimensionality (condi weakness, hammer2 spam etc.) and limited 6,7,8,9,0 skill choices.

 

Energy Management. Well thats the class mechanic. Thief also uses some Kind of Energy and necro As Well. But necro has to generate it actively. There is No passive lf Generation.

CDs on necro are Freakinger Long As Well, in Addition to Freaking Long casttimes.

 

Limited Skill choices? -> necro (there are only a few good ones all Others suck hard)

Limited build Diversity across all gamemodes?-> necro

Pretty hard CC weakness -> necro

 

And dont tell me its boring to Play Rev. Yeah maybe. But i Just say: Gravedigger spam

[Elva.6372]

My picks: Engineer...followed by Revenant.

 

The Engineer is just...over engineered way too complex for little gain for the effort and also highly unsatisfying. The Traits are a mess and especially lack coherent synergy (this is a big problem for many Professions, IMO, Ranger I am looking at you)

 

Kits...are awful, again the clunkiness.

 

Overall the profession can realize its potential as condi or power...seems to be stymied.

 

The Revenant's e-spec Renegade has playability issues in my opinion...clunky, poor execution in this "action" game called GW2.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> Why does revenant have 51% of the answers?

 

Because the original question has a huge scope, asking people to basically consider everything. People feel revenant is worst off because of it's feel in play, it's level of difficulty to play it well in all game modes and it's obvious 2-years-less development time compared to other class. Necro on the other hand ... it's actually a well rounded class and the ONLY area it's deficient in is a very specialized part of the game that only endgamers care about. In short, Necro deficiencies are less widespread than Revenant. OP seemed motivated in creating the thread in hoping to highlight this narrow, singular deficiency on Necro as THE most pressing problem in the game. Given that Anet doesn't measure a class by it's performance in ONE specific part of ONE game mode, I'm not sure it's a very compelling approach.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"nia.4725" said:

> > Why does revenant have 51% of the answers?

>

> Because the original question has a huge scope, asking people to basically consider everything. People feel revenant is worst off because of it's feel in play, it's level of difficulty to play it well in all game modes and **it's obvious 2-years-less development time compared to other class**. Necro on the other hand ... it's actually a well rounded class and the ONLY area it's deficient in is a very specialized part of the game that only endgamers care about. In short, Necro deficiencies are less widespread than Revenant. OP seemed motivated in creating the thread in hoping to highlight this narrow, singular deficiency on Necro as THE most pressing problem in the game. Given that Anet doesn't measure a class by it's performance in ONE specific part of ONE game mode, I'm not sure it's a very compelling approach.

 

As you've also already stated yourself and I've made it bold as well, _the_ obvious reason for Revenant being chosen as the worst by far is the 2 years less development (next to all the other facts as well even)! So for me as an analyst it's not even worth looking into that number. It's the same as asking death rates per 1st world country: i.e. take the following age quadrants: 0-25, 25-50, 50-75, 75-100 (ignoring 100+ here for a moment), we all know the 75-100 one will be the "winner" by far in all 1st world countries. But if I see a clear second "winner" somewhere, definitely if it's even a bit surprising as well, say 0-25 runner up by a longshot that would actually be interesting to research!

I hope I do not have to explain the analogy here!

[Opopanax.1803]

Revenant was nerfed by adding CDs on top of energy management...it's not fun to play when you have to manage 2 layers on nearly every ability.

 

Engineer kits need to be turned into F skills. You are nearly required to take kits as your utilities to be competitive because of how much they bring to the table.

 

Necros are not close to either Engineer or revenant. At all.

 

 

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

>

> Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

>

> You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> Thats how they did it with reaper.

>

 

 

Lol, if that's your thought, i'll happily trade you Scrapper for your Reaper spec ^_^

[Kuulpb.5412]

Profession*

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > Why does revenant have 51% of the answers?

> >

> > Because the original question has a huge scope, asking people to basically consider everything. People feel revenant is worst off because of it's feel in play, it's level of difficulty to play it well in all game modes and **it's obvious 2-years-less development time compared to other class**. Necro on the other hand ... it's actually a well rounded class and the ONLY area it's deficient in is a very specialized part of the game that only endgamers care about. In short, Necro deficiencies are less widespread than Revenant. OP seemed motivated in creating the thread in hoping to highlight this narrow, singular deficiency on Necro as THE most pressing problem in the game. Given that Anet doesn't measure a class by it's performance in ONE specific part of ONE game mode, I'm not sure it's a very compelling approach.

>

> As you've also already stated yourself and I've made it bold as well, _the_ obvious reason for Revenant being chosen as the worst by far is the 2 years less development (next to all the other facts as well even)! So for me as an analyst it's not even worth looking into that number. It's the same as asking death rates per 1st world country: i.e. take the following age quadrants: 0-25, 25-50, 50-75, 75-100 (ignoring 100+ here for a moment), we all know the 75-100 one will be the "winner" by far in all 1st world countries. But if I see a clear second "winner" somewhere, definitely if it's even a bit surprising as well, say 0-25 runner up by a longshot that would actually be interesting to research!

> I hope I do not have to explain the analogy here!

 

Actually, you're statistically wrong.

 

The population in most countries is a pyramid. There's more deaths in the 50-75 ranges than in the 75-100 range because there is a greater number of people in that age range, and it also has a high proportion of diseases. By proportion, yes, 75-100 has the highest death **ratio**, but the fewest numerical deaths because a lot of people never reach that age. Only a few countries is your analogy correct -- particularly Japan, which has a population age range that looks like an inverted pyramid.

[Lily.1935]

> @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

> >

> > Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

> >

> > You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> > Thats how they did it with reaper.

> >

>

>

> Lol, if that's your thought, i'll happily trade you Scrapper for your Reaper spec ^_^

 

Sold. Hell, I'll throw in death shroud for free.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"nia.4725" said:

> > > > Why does revenant have 51% of the answers?

> > >

> > > Because the original question has a huge scope, asking people to basically consider everything. People feel revenant is worst off because of it's feel in play, it's level of difficulty to play it well in all game modes and **it's obvious 2-years-less development time compared to other class**. Necro on the other hand ... it's actually a well rounded class and the ONLY area it's deficient in is a very specialized part of the game that only endgamers care about. In short, Necro deficiencies are less widespread than Revenant. OP seemed motivated in creating the thread in hoping to highlight this narrow, singular deficiency on Necro as THE most pressing problem in the game. Given that Anet doesn't measure a class by it's performance in ONE specific part of ONE game mode, I'm not sure it's a very compelling approach.

> >

> > As you've also already stated yourself and I've made it bold as well, _the_ obvious reason for Revenant being chosen as the worst by far is the 2 years less development (next to all the other facts as well even)! So for me as an analyst it's not even worth looking into that number. It's the same as asking death rates per **1st world** country: i.e. take the following age quadrants: 0-25, 25-50, 50-75, 75-100 (ignoring 100+ here for a moment), we all know the 75-100 one will be the "winner" by far in all 1st world countries. But if I see a clear second "winner" somewhere, definitely if it's even a bit surprising as well, say 0-25 runner up by a longshot that would actually be interesting to research!

> > I hope I do not have to explain the analogy here!

>

> Actually, you're statistically wrong.

>

> The population in most countries is a pyramid. There's more deaths in the 50-75 ranges than in the 75-100 range because there is a greater number of people in that age range, and it also has a high proportion of diseases. By proportion, yes, 75-100 has the highest death **ratio**, but the fewest numerical deaths because a lot of people never reach that age. Only a few countries is your analogy correct -- particularly Japan, which has a population age range that looks like an inverted pyramid.

 

**1st world**

 

edit: I made it bold in my comment

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > > > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

> > >

> > > Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

> > >

> > > You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> > > Thats how they did it with reaper.

> > >

> >

> >

> > Lol, if that's your thought, i'll happily trade you Scrapper for your Reaper spec ^_^

>

> Sold. Hell, I'll throw in death shroud for free.

 

Right... I'll just let you know that the spec is useless in PvE, WvW, and it's barely holding it's knee with a rogue tier 3 build in PvP, but that's due to a pair of niche trait's we recieved in our core traits...

 

Soo, without it, also useless for PvP, have fun.

[Sephylon.4938]

> @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > > > > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

> > > >

> > > > Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

> > > >

> > > > You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> > > > Thats how they did it with reaper.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Lol, if that's your thought, i'll happily trade you Scrapper for your Reaper spec ^_^

> >

> > Sold. Hell, I'll throw in death shroud for free.

>

> Right... I'll just let you know that the spec is useless in PvE, WvW, and it's barely holding it's knee with a rogue tier 3 build in PvP, but that's due to a pair of niche trait's we recieved in our core traits...

>

> Soo, without it, also useless for PvP, have fun.

 

And reaper is any better? Least lily got a block, extra cc with low(er) tells, and some group util via invis, bulwark, and cleanse gyro. You got a 2nd hp bar that blocks you from healing and utils, depletes almost instantly, demands that you trait for it, and 2 highly telegraphed cc, 1 of which needs you to be in shroud. Sounds like lily got the better deal imo.

 

Edit

I seem to have missed that lily tossed in core shroud just for the heck of it, willing to toss in toolbelt skills that doesn't get overridden by your espec's mehanic to make it even?

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

>

> Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

>

> You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> Thats how they did it with reaper.

>

> For pvp reaper is like: slow moving and slow hitting without a real good defense other than His shroud which is at the same time his best offensive option.

> For pve: in Order to do max dps, you need to play condi. And then you need to make use of your icefields. But in Order to do that, you cannot play with others!, Cause they will place other combofields down as well.

> But reaper still needs heavy support.

>

> See: necro doesnt make Sense at all. Thats why its currently the worst class in the game that needs a rework pretty badly.

 

Reaper being too slow is the result of bad play and bad builds moreso than the class itself. Obviously builds playing full mobility like bird soulbeast will shut it down, but even then those need to Kite to survive as they just die in melee.

 

I want to point out that the reaper was made worse in PvP and WvW because of scourge and what the PvE community demanded for sacrificing sustain for damage because it didn't hit hard enough. Meanwhile if you actually built it well, it was viable if not superior for power moreso than today. Today it's only really good for spin2win noobs who think they're good when they instadown people who don't negate anything or don't know how to counter it.

 

I also want to point out that prior to HoT and the trait shakeup, necro was totally PvE viable. It had a better AA chain at the time in dagger than thief, but powercreep kicked in and curbed necro's dagger.

 

Scourge needs a full redesign because it's conceptually never going to be balanced, and but necro's design is fine. Necro and reaper need tweaks and some util changes, absolutely, but rev is horrendously clunky to the point the entire class is barely even functional, with basically the same build diversity.

 

Honestly, it wasn't until the powercreep from HoT that necro ever started to see points of weakness in any game mode. And even then, it was just in PvE because of raids being turned into DPS races which established a community of people who cared.

 

And do not tell me dungeons were toxic and the PvE meta mattered back then. My all-welcome groups filled within a minute and almost always went smoothly, and I did CoF multiple times on pre-80 condi builds like S/S war in greens and rares.

[Lily.1935]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I also want to point out that prior to HoT and the trait shakeup, necro was totally PvE viable.

 

What in the name of melandru are you smoking? Necromancer at that time was considered the absolute worst class in the game at the time. This wasn't even a question. I was actively booted from groups and groups that couldn't boot me made it a point to complain that I was running a necromancer. The ranger at the time was at least wanted for speed clears. Necromancer brought nothing to that table. Now I'll still say necromancer is the worst now but my god it's leaps and bounds better now than it was pre hot.

 

Also. Don't touch my scourge. It's the only elite spec designed for gw1 necromancer veterans.

[DeceiverX.8361]

It dealt near-identical damage to the thief by camping dagger as a glass cannon by running Spite/BM and just ignoring shroud. people hated necros because most of them were condi and the stack cap on bleeding was still 25 which meant its damage got overridden by other players in the group. The only complaint about power necro was its lack of cleave on dagger AA. Power necro literally had a better AA chain than thief at the same speed, which with Close to Death and BM's lifesteal contributed near-identical damage to what a thief did (which also offers literally nothing but damage), and even necro can benefit the group via wells in less-experienced groups. Yes it wasn't "as good," but that's literally how PvE works; if it's not optimal, it's useless, per the community. That's why balancing for PvE is pointless. Something will always be thrown out.

 

I ran dungeons from level 35 to level 80 on my necros in this timeframe without using tomes and never got kicked once on either of them, even being pre-80. Joining "speedclear 10k+AP EXP" groups would get you kicked as anything but an ele, thief, or zerk warrior at the time, anyways. That had nothing to do with necro being bad so much as people joining the wrong groups composed of elitist pricks, and the majority of other classes being susceptible to just as much scrutiny. I did a CoF run on an all-welcome group on my necro in just over 6 minutes once. The world record at the time was a tad over 5 minutes. Consider that for a minute.

 

Scourge has to be nerfed or reworked in how its kit works. I know you don't play sPvP or WvW, but it is single-handedly killing these formats. Player counts are lower than ever and people are dropping the game constantly over it. My guild returned to see what happened with PoF, has seen scourge go unchanged, and is moving games again and literally cites it as the reason. It's so much more overpowered than even guardian ever was, and people saying otherwise either do not understand guardians' role during hammertrain or are lying outright. It has self-peel, stab, massive AoE damage, portal play, boon denial, effective healing, and a stupid amount of base durability.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > > The necromancer NEEDS a babysitter in PvP and they absolutely NEED the safety in numbers from WvW. The can't function on their own which has made them a risk to use since day one.

> > > > > This is true, next to the fact that they are one of the most selfish classes out there as well. .... How the hell can a class be designed to be both needy (for help by others) _and_ being incredibly selfish at the same time ... It's just wrong on so many levels!

> > > >

> > > > Lol. Has it ever been different for necros?

> > > >

> > > > You Just got the Idea of anet: make an incredible Bad spec and give it to necro.

> > > > Thats how they did it with reaper.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Lol, if that's your thought, i'll happily trade you Scrapper for your Reaper spec ^_^

> >

> > Sold. Hell, I'll throw in death shroud for free.

>

> Right... I'll just let you know that the spec is useless in PvE, WvW, and it's barely holding it's knee with a rogue tier 3 build in PvP, but that's due to a pair of niche trait's we recieved in our core traits...

>

> Soo, without it, also useless for PvP, have fun.

 

If you can Play it and If you have the right build.... Its awesome for wvw Roaming.

Reaper is Just Bad in zergs and in Roaming.

 

Scrapper can be super tanky and still do a Lot of dmg.

Id happyly trade that for reaper.

 

[Lily.1935]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> It dealt near-identical damage to the thief by camping dagger as a glass cannon by running Spite/BM and just ignoring shroud. people hated necros because most of them were condi and the stack cap on bleeding was still 25 which meant its damage got overridden by other players in the group. The only complaint about power necro was its lack of cleave on dagger AA. Power necro literally had a better AA chain than thief at the same speed, which with Close to Death and BM's lifesteal contributed near-identical damage to what a thief did (which also offers literally nothing but damage), and even necro can benefit the group via wells in less-experienced groups. Yes it wasn't "as good," but that's literally how PvE works; if it's not optimal, it's useless, per the community. That's why balancing for PvE is pointless. Something will always be thrown out.

>

> I ran dungeons from level 35 to level 80 on my necros in this timeframe without using tomes and never got kicked once on either of them, even being pre-80. Joining "speedclear 10k+AP EXP" groups would get you kicked as anything but an ele, thief, or zerk warrior at the time, anyways. That had nothing to do with necro being bad so much as people joining the wrong groups composed of elitist kitten, and the majority of other classes being susceptible to just as much scrutiny. I did a CoF run on an all-welcome group on my necro in just over 6 minutes once. The world record at the time was a tad over 5 minutes. Consider that for a minute.

>

> Scourge has to be nerfed or reworked in how its kit works. I know you don't play sPvP or WvW, but it is single-handedly killing these formats. Player counts are lower than ever and people are dropping the game constantly over it. My guild returned to see what happened with PoF, has seen scourge go unchanged, and is moving games again and literally cites it as the reason. It's so much more overpowered than even guardian ever was, and people saying otherwise either do not understand guardians' role during hammertrain or are lying outright. It has self-peel, stab, massive AoE damage, portal play, boon denial, effective healing, and a stupid amount of base durability.

 

I ran dungeons and level 50 fractals back then. And I remember thieves being favored for their group utility not their damage. And the damage builds I did see favored sword pistol for the pistol whip skill not dagger. Which had a stronger cleave. Smoke screen, shadow refuge, short bow. These were the things of thief meta. They let you skip over half the encounters which is why they were wanted. Not for their damage. Not to mention their projectile blocks. Thieves were one of the most used in dungeon runs. I know, I ran with them.

 

Necromancer provided none of that. They couldn't even give allies might back then with blood is power since bip only applied might to yourself at the time. You saying they're better than thief when they were absolutely not. This is demonstrable. Thief, one of the best classes for pve at the time was in no way worse than necromancer.

[DeceiverX.8361]

I never once said they were better than the thief. I said they offered near-identical damage.

 

So yeah they couldn't provide the utility to skip trash for optimized speed clears, but my point resides. Which is honestly what matters especially in more modern encounters which can't be skipped, either. I listed the reasons why necros were often not brought along, even after they gave daggers cleave. You can go look to reddit for the same reasoning from other people.

 

I'm fine with scourge having PvE viability, but not at the expense of other formats where balance literally affects playability of others. Scourge's design is supposed to be a support class and I think people keep forgetting this because they're dead-set on damage numbers. "Druid is better" is exactly what I was talking about with optimized PvE. As long as one thing does a role better than any others, it dominates the mentality by elitist people that it absolutely must be played. Unlike in PvE, however, it's currently performing four roles at once in competitive.

 

ANet has designed themselves into a hole to prevent fixing a lot of non-necro-specific things that contribute to scourge being OP. So it has to be scourge to get changed versus nerfed because it's the concept itself that's broken more than numbers.

[Lily.1935]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I never once said they were better than the thief. I said they offered near-identical damage.

>

> So yeah they couldn't provide the utility to skip trash for optimized speed clears, but my point resides. Which is honestly what matters especially in more modern encounters which can't be skipped, either. I listed the reasons why necros were often not brought along, even after they gave daggers cleave. You can go look to reddit for the same reasoning from other people.

>

> I'm fine with scourge having PvE viability, but not at the expense of other formats where balance literally affects playability of others. Scourge's design is supposed to be a support class and I think people keep forgetting this because they're dead-set on damage numbers. "Druid is better" is exactly what I was talking about with optimized PvE. As long as one thing does a role better than any others, it dominates the mentality by elitist people that it absolutely must be played. Unlike in PvE, however, it's currently performing four roles at once in competitive.

>

> ANet has designed themselves into a hole to prevent fixing a lot of non-necro-specific things that contribute to scourge being OP. So it has to be scourge to get changed versus nerfed because it's the concept itself that's broken more than numbers.

 

You want to see Source balanced properly? Well that's going to take a complete redesign of the necromancer's core mechanics like I've been saying. Life force is oppressive in WvW, and I've mentioned that above. To "fix" them would be to change how life force is gained. And to change most of the traits and skills on core necromancer to make sure they are not super swingy in their mechanics. Scourge can be fought and beaten. I've done it without problem.

 

The point you were trying to make is flawed. Similar damage to a low damage spec pre hot was not good. And the energy loss of pistol whip wasn't a problem because encounters often wouldn't last more than a second or two. Yes you could run necromancer and complete pve content but that doesn't make it good. I could run through dungeons wearing nothing but white level 80 gear with rare trinkets. It's possible and probably wouldn't be that difficult. But is it good? No.

 

Necromancer is lagging behind all other professions In PvE because they always have been. They are very swingy in PvP and are actively busted in WvW. This has been their reality for years. Scourge hasn't changed that. So clearly necromancer need a major overhaul.

[Sylosi.6503]

Beyond whether a class has fundamental design issues (which is frankly at least half of them), Anet can already see which is the worst class in game, they just have to look at what classes get the least playtime in the three gamemodes.

 

Take WvW for example and what the majority of the players do in that (zerging / guild raids), pretty sure Anet can already see how many Guards & Necros there are compared to how few Engys & Rangers, it is pretty obvious which are the worst classes in that case.

 

What this poll mainly highlights is how some players have a very narrow view of things or at times total lack of objectivity.

[Lily.1935]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> Beyond whether a class has fundamental design issues (which is frankly at least half of them), Anet can already see which is the worst class in game, they just have to look at what classes get the least playtime in the three gamemodes.

>

> Take WvW for example and what the majority of the players do in that (zerging / guild raids), pretty sure Anet can already see how many Guards & Necros there are compared to how few Engys & Rangers, it is pretty obvious which are the worst classes in that case.

>

> What this poll mainly highlights is how some players have a very narrow view of things or at times total lack of objectivity.

 

Ranger is second or first most popular profession. Close with elementalist. This is independent of polls but raw play data that's been shown multiple times. Popularity doesn't mean good though. The numbers are far more even than you might think with necromancer being ranked somewhere in the middle. Revenant is ranked dead last with engineer second to last. The different data collections are pretty consistent about this. Ranger and Ele have always been at the top though in terms of popularity even before HoT in spite of the community seeing them as tied for the worst profession with necromancer at the time.

 

People are going to play what they enjoy in spite of what is most effective. Most players are not min maxers like the people on the forums. Most players play at a casual level. So saying that what's popular shows us what's good and what isn't an accurate determining factor in what is good or not. All professions are useable. So there is no clear "useless" class to determine what's the worst.

 

As for Revenant being the least popular. This makes sense. It's the youngest profession introduced well after the time that most people established their mains. And switching mains isn't something people can usually do easily. Even of they do switch the play time of revenant still has like 2-3 years to catch up to the other professions.