Bad economy can kill the game just as easily as content droughts.

[mauried.5608]

Thats OK, its what vendors are for.

MMO economies are dynamic, ie they change over time as the game itself changes or gets bigger.

Simply because some items that used to be worth a lot , and are now worth less has happened, it just means the economy is shifting.

Deal with it.

 

[TheGrimm.5624]

If you are planning on relying on NPC vendor values to make in game currency then you are planning on the entire player base to buy gems and convert to gold so that they can purchase crafting materials that can only be bought from the same vendors. That is not a sustainable economy and it will drive players away. Dynamic economies are fine but unless vendor values change they should never be proposed as a solution since their job role is to reduce materials from the game and drive down in game currency amounts.

[Devilman.1532]

Well I know one thing you have 2 ticket glacial skins which were a pretty strong set art wise etc going for like 32-40g. That means there is something very wrong. That something is Anet flooding their BL chests with scraps and tickets. They are easier to get so prices plummeted. So stupid.

[Vargamonth.2047]

> @"Devilman.1532" said:

> Well I know one thing you have 2 ticket glacial skins which were a pretty strong set art wise etc going for like 32-40g. That means there is something very wrong. That something is Anet flooding their BL chests with scraps and tickets. They are easier to get so prices plummeted. So stupid.

 

Scraps and tickets are actually harder to get directly than ever, because both BLC common and uncommon categories are flooded with other things.

The problem is on the uncommon weapon set, merciless at the time glacial weapons were 1 BL ticket, which dropped down to about 15 gold on average. That's about 250 gold for the whole set, with 7 tickets as reward which could be used to get glacial weapons, sell them and recover the investment.

We have the exact same situation now with Crimson Lion weapons and Alchemist ones. You can get the whole Crimson Lion set through 15 gold avergae buy listings, get 7 tickets, an sell a few alchemist weapons directly for about 45-50 gold to recover the whole investment (and even get some extra money or a spare ticket). That's pretty much the whole Crimson Lion weapon set for free as long as you have the funds, some patience and had not completed the collection achievement before.

[mauried.5608]

Seems that many people have no idea how the TP works.

The TP is not a shop where you can rock up and buy stuff for what you think it should cost, and the stuff should always cost the same.

The TP is a dynamic goods exchange facility that allows sellers and buyers to exchange stuff.

The sellers are free to sell their stuff for whatever they think its worth, or alternatively to not sell it .

Buyers are free to buy stuff for whatever price the sellers think its worth.

If buyers dont like the prices, they are free to not buy .

if prices are going down, its because the sellers are selling their stuff for less than previously, which they are free to do if they so choose too.

If prices are going up its because the sellers now think their stuff is worth more.

No seller has a monopoly on anything, because all players in the game are able to sell the same stuff, because everything in the game is available to all players.

 

 

[Black March.1758]

The problem isn´t that everything is cheap as much as loot just being plain boring. When every exotic item is basically sold at the value of mystic forge food there´s just nothing fun you can get. The most valueable item I found in the past six months was a single PoF dagger worth 27g or so and a commanders gear recipe. Other than that, despite maxed MF and several hundred hours of play, I haven´t gotten anything interesting at all.

 

And even worse, even the salvage is mostly worthless bar a few key items which have yet to be broken. But since only a few things are valueable, additional pressure is put on the remaining items in order to maintain their value.

[Devilman.1532]

so under this understanding let me ask why are glacial skins (considering the artwork is strong, the response of the community to them on the whole was very positive) performing so poorly in you folks opinion?

[TheGrimm.5624]

I think the skins are taking a general hit is due to compounding issues:

 

* We had one release of the BL chest over the last 6 months that had a flood of full tickets and scraps in them, saw a significant uptick when opening chests, corrected in proceeding chest changes

* The addition of older sets in uncommon and rare drops on top of tickets and scraps further flooded those lines and dropped their value.

* The 7 tickets for finishing a set is more likely with the flood of skins out there so more tickets introduced with no outlet for use

* The move to add skins to the BL chests versus releasing them as higher ticket prices means more overall skins being released for 0 ticket reduction in supply

* Guaranteed wardrobe unlocks are also dropping demand as people received the skin for their account via random unlocks

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"Black March.1758" said:

> The problem isn´t that everything is cheap as much as loot just being plain boring. When every exotic item is basically sold at the value of mystic forge food there´s just nothing fun you can get. The most valueable item I found in the past six months was a single PoF dagger worth 27g or so and a commanders gear recipe. Other than that, despite maxed MF and several hundred hours of play, I haven´t gotten anything interesting at all.

>

> And even worse, even the salvage is mostly worthless bar a few key items which have yet to be broken. But since only a few things are valueable, additional pressure is put on the remaining items in order to maintain their value.

 

Boring loot is a major issue. A good balance of common/uncommon/rare/super rare drops is important since loot is the shinny. Also a balance between gem store/ BL Skins and ingame skins is important. In an ideal world it might be something like a for 1 direct store, 1 black lion weapon to 8 sets in game. The in game would be a mix of items to work towards (collections), items in reward tracks, items in achievements and items in random loot drops.

[Malediktus.9250]

We need John Smith back, he made sure that stuff had reasonable rarity and reasonable inflation

Almost all loot you can get is worth much less now. Even precursors and exotics are dirt cheap already

[titje.2745]

indeed everything i can sell if very low price and then they throw a nice mount skin at your face for 500/600 gold. gg

i am not planning working day and night in a game to buy something from store.

relax gaming isnt anymore these days. and bring my rng from 2017 back. i havent got anything nice in 2018 and this must be worth playing?

invisible shoes never drop infusions never drop nothing. you want ppl enjoy the game but without gold is not much fun.

you see nice skins in store and you forced to pay with real money because making gold is hard.

 

and black lion chest are a slap in the face, just worked my story for the lvl 40 key, few hours wasted for a teleport to friend and some junk. and i dont buy gems to gamble with. its only for upgrades but first i must get the happyness back ingame. and thats with good items dropped thats worth gold and if i am happy i buy gems for upgrades :)

[mauried.5608]

Whats the definition of reasonable inflation?

Inflation in MMOs is what kills the economy, as the currency progressivley becomes worthless and eventually you cant buy anything for less than 1G.

 

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> Whats the definition of reasonable inflation?

> Inflation in MMOs is what kills the economy, as the currency progressivley becomes worthless and eventually you cant buy anything for less than 1G.

>

Upto 25% per year would be reasonable imo. If there is deflation people hoard gold instead of spending it, increasing the deflation spiral since there will be even less demand for all kind of items

[particlepinata.9865]

Do you think the mayority of (casual) players are interested in the archaic 'waste my time grinding for loot' mentality to feel entitled. No they dont, they want to have fun playing the game exploring, doing open world and story content. Get the loot in a unforced horizontal way instead of earlier mentioned. Long term goals and working is something better spend in the real world.

[Gandrogh.1530]

Precursors aren't dirt cheap. You just have to much gold

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Gandrogh.1530" said:

> Precursors aren't dirt cheap. You just have to much gold

yes they are dirt cheap compared to 2 years ago

not my fault that you are still to poor to afford the current prices

 

most precursors are like 50% or less of their peak value

[Majirah.5089]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Gandrogh.1530" said:

> > Precursors aren't dirt cheap. You just have to much gold

> yes they are dirt cheap compared to 2 years ago

> not my fault that you are still to poor to afford the current prices

>

> most precursors are like 50% or less of their peak value

 

And this is bad why? Means more people can afford them and make legendaries. If you think several hundred gold is dirt cheap I agree with the other poster. The problem seems to be that you have too much gold.

[Malediktus.9250]

Legendaries are supposed to be the ultimate goal of fashion wars, not something you can casually buy while playing 1h a week. Legendaries are far too common already

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Legendaries are supposed to be the ultimate goal of fashion wars, not something you can casually buy while playing 1h a week. Legendaries are far too common already

 

Well, gen2 legendaries might fit your description, but gen1 were designed to be easy to get casually, perhaps without even spending any significant time in game working for them.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> Legendaries are supposed to be the ultimate goal of fashion wars, not something you can casually buy while playing 1h a week. Legendaries are far too common already

 

And they are *ludicrously* far from "casually get by playing 1h a week" - making a legendary from that would take years. Hyperbole can serve a retorical point, but this only reinforces the "you have too much gold" image.

 

I looked through the precursors on bltp.com. Over the last year, almost all of them have dropped by approx 25%. (One curious exception: the rifle precursor have maintained it's price!)

 

Given that we've now had over a year of resumed legendary development, so even if you're looking for one that haven't gotten a gen2 yet you know it's coming and might wait, I don't find that price drop shocking.

[mauried.5608]

Theres nothing wrong with the games economy simply because prices on various items change on the TP.

In fact thats more a sign the economy is just adjusting to game changes which happen when new expansions are introduced.

Id start to worry if there are no players standing in front of the TP because theres nothing for sale on it.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Devilman.1532" said:

> so under this understanding let me ask why are glacial skins (considering the artwork is strong, the response of the community to them on the whole was very positive) performing so poorly in you folks opinion?

 

Because they are ALMOST just like Corrupted Weapon skins

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > Legendaries are supposed to be the ultimate goal of fashion wars, not something you can casually buy while playing 1h a week. Legendaries are far too common already

>

> Well, gen2 legendaries might fit your description, but gen1 were designed to be easy to get casually, perhaps without even spending any significant time in game working for them.

Really? I never saw an Anet dev state that legendaries should be a casual goal without significant time investment (granted you can bypass it by converting gems to gold).

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > Legendaries are supposed to be the ultimate goal of fashion wars, not something you can casually buy while playing 1h a week. Legendaries are far too common already

> >

> > Well, gen2 legendaries might fit your description, but gen1 were designed to be easy to get casually, perhaps without even spending any significant time in game working for them.

> Really? I never saw an Anet dev state that legendaries should be a casual goal without significant time investment (granted you can bypass it by converting gems to gold).

 

I didnt say anything about dev statements. The design anr implementation of gen1 legendaries would, and still does, allow one to get them with little to no effort in game. It doesnt get much more casual than, "I think that I want a legendary right now....done."

[Biff.5312]

The economy is just fine the way it is.