PVErs Expect a Shift

[ovinnik.9216]

An MMORPG like this one would only focus the majority of its attention on PvP if it had a death wish. I'm not sure what more you think people ought to be expecting, especially in view of the scale of the future WvW rework.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > How has PvE reached perfection?

> > >

> > > Some classes are still too dominant for endgame-PvE-content. Also, the community in this game is bonkers anyway when it comes to endgame-PvE-content.

> >

> > You have to understand the game philosophy ... it results in the dominance you see. but I do believe he is right. Anet wants you to play how you want. You can ... and be successful to. It's just a little harder to find people that think like that.

>

> Which game-philosophy?

>

> All I see are massive problems concerning the accessibility of endgame-PvE-content which are caused by both the community itself and lackluster game-design/class-balance.

 

Exactly. That's a result of the game philosophy; no holy trinity, play how you want. This frees Anet of the requirement to have classes with equivalent performance. It's the players that make accessibility more difficult because they impose restrictions on themselves under the belief it leads to lower risk of failure. Anet actually LIFTED restrictions to end game content at the beginning of the game with the philosophy ... I can't tell you how many times I've stood around spamming local chat in other games to get a healer or a tank. Unfortunately, Anet slid into a trinity a little again with raids. It's not full blown holy trinity, but it's pushing the limit IMO.

 

Even with that ... they made sure there was enough love spread out to allow various classes to play whatever is necessary to succeed. This makes me recall a thread where 10 necros completed a raid ... and people were criticizing them for it ... so no, it's not Anet or their game design, its players. Players that carry massive baggage who don't want innovation. They grew up on standard MMO pablum ... that's what they want to get fed now they are grown up.

 

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > How has PvE reached perfection?

> > > >

> > > > Some classes are still too dominant for endgame-PvE-content. Also, the community in this game is bonkers anyway when it comes to endgame-PvE-content.

> > >

> > > You have to understand the game philosophy ... it results in the dominance you see. but I do believe he is right. Anet wants you to play how you want. You can ... and be successful to. It's just a little harder to find people that think like that.

> >

> > Which game-philosophy?

> >

> > All I see are massive problems concerning the accessibility of endgame-PvE-content which are caused by both the community itself and lackluster game-design/class-balance.

>

> Exactly. That's a result of the game philosophy; no holy trinity, play how you want. This frees Anet of the requirement to have classes with equivalent performance. It's the players that make accessibility more difficult because they impose restrictions on themselves under the belief it leads to lower risk of failure. Anet actually LIFTED restrictions to end game content at the beginning of the game with the philosophy ... I can't tell you how many times I've stood around spamming local chat in other games to get a healer or a tank. Unfortunately, Anet slid into a trinity a little again with raids. It's not full blown holy trinity, but it's pushing the limit IMO.

>

> Even with that ... they made sure there was enough love spread out to allow various classes to play whatever is necessary to succeed. This makes me recall a thread where 10 necros completed a raid ... and people were criticizing them for it ... so no, it's not Anet or their game design, its players. Players that carry massive baggage who don't want innovation. They grew up on standard MMO pablum ... that's what they want to get fed now they are grown up.

>

 

Totally agree with this.

[Adry.7512]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> > >

> > > Don't get your hopes to high, they aren't going to shift around development resources to all of the sudden try and work on WvW and PvP. The resources allocated for those segments are already assigned, same as with PvE, unless they're working on those segments to have a bigger part of the next expansion...which I highly doubt.

> >

> > There’s a difference between resources and attention. Resources are for the most part already set, but ideas and creativity has been for 97% of the time for pve, which should change soon.

>

> It really won't. This is not about justice or equality, but about money. And PvE is where players with money are. People want new maps, new collections, new expansion with story chapters. They tried with competitive modes, they failed. Miserably. They are not going to switch to wvw and pvp all of a sudden just because that would be fair. Less and less people play GW2, it's old game and those who left are mostly not coming back.

 

It’s not a switch. It’s a temporary focus, which at the end of the day all it needs is just that; a temporary focus to fix certain problems. Not saying the game will go all out pvp.

[Spook.5847]

> @"Adry.7512" said:

> I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

 

Couldn't care less. PvP of all sorts (includes wvw) is for lazy devs that dont want to do real content.

Latest gripe with PvP is that we can't leave the game if we want/need to...now have to exit to desktop and then wait until the game you were in is gone. Forcing people to do things they dont want to do is always a poor business model.

[artemis.6781]

They will follow the money! And the money is not pvp or wvw. Sorry.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint.

>

> That's almost covfefe levels of talking nonsense right there.

>

> The fact is that PvE players want different things, just like PvP and WvW players do. Any time something is put out for one of those modes, even if some people love it, there will be others that hate it. There is no such thing as perfection in content.

 

Oh the ever greedy GW2 PvErs...

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Adry.7512" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > > > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> > > >

> > > > Don't get your hopes to high, they aren't going to shift around development resources to all of the sudden try and work on WvW and PvP. The resources allocated for those segments are already assigned, same as with PvE, unless they're working on those segments to have a bigger part of the next expansion...which I highly doubt.

> > >

> > > There’s a difference between resources and attention. Resources are for the most part already set, but ideas and creativity has been for 97% of the time for pve, which should change soon.

> >

> > It really won't. This is not about justice or equality, but about money. And PvE is where players with money are. People want new maps, new collections, new expansion with story chapters. They tried with competitive modes, they failed. Miserably. They are not going to switch to wvw and pvp all of a sudden just because that would be fair. Less and less people play GW2, it's old game and those who left are mostly not coming back.

>

> It’s not a switch. It’s a temporary focus, which at the end of the day all it needs is just that; a temporary focus to fix certain problems. Not saying the game will go all out pvp.

 

They won't change their focus in expense of pve development.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > How has PvE reached perfection?

> > > >

> > > > Some classes are still too dominant for endgame-PvE-content. Also, the community in this game is bonkers anyway when it comes to endgame-PvE-content.

> > >

> > > You have to understand the game philosophy ... it results in the dominance you see. but I do believe he is right. Anet wants you to play how you want. You can ... and be successful to. It's just a little harder to find people that think like that.

> >

> > Which game-philosophy?

> >

> > All I see are massive problems concerning the accessibility of endgame-PvE-content which are caused by both the community itself and lackluster game-design/class-balance.

>

> Exactly. That's a result of the game philosophy; no holy trinity, play how you want. This frees Anet of the requirement to have classes with equivalent performance. It's the players that make accessibility more difficult because they impose restrictions on themselves under the belief it leads to lower risk of failure. Anet actually LIFTED restrictions to end game content at the beginning of the game with the philosophy ... I can't tell you how many times I've stood around spamming local chat in other games to get a healer or a tank. Unfortunately, Anet slid into a trinity a little again with raids. It's not full blown holy trinity, but it's pushing the limit IMO.

>

> Even with that ... they made sure there was enough love spread out to allow various classes to play whatever is necessary to succeed. This makes me recall a thread where 10 necros completed a raid ... and people were criticizing them for it ... so no, it's not Anet or their game design, its players. Players that carry massive baggage who don't want innovation. They grew up on standard MMO pablum ... that's what they want to get fed now they are grown up.

>

 

But the game-philosophy did a 180°-turn with the implementation of HoT. You agree with that statement and even Anet stated that the new specializations will be needed in order to beat the new raid-content. I won't disagree with accessibility being mostly a community-problem, though that mentality is indeed being supplemented (and created in the first place) by game-design. People will always choose the easiest approach to a problem; in MMORPGs which feature the holy trinity, people will always choose the tank-and-spank-aspect, simply because it is easier for every member to focus on a single task rather than having to deal with everything. It's common sense. Just look at real-life-examples: Do you still see allround-scholars like Da Vinci? No, 'cause our world is dominated by specialization. And what we have is a full-blown trinity. We have dedicated tank- and healer-specializations/builds and we even have dedicated tank- and healer-gear. That's not an optional soft trinity (which would be harmful already), it's a full-blown trinity.

 

Yeah, there may be single squads with exotic setups like the 10-Necro-Setup you mentioned, but those are very rare exceptions and won't ever represent the majority. Yeah (again), it's a community-problem, but the community itself is only one part of the problem; the other part is indeed game-design. Game-design which has led to your average MMORPG-PvE-experience having dedicated tanks and healers while also having some more popular dps-classes and some problem-child-classes, which feel like they aren't loved by the developer. I mostly dislike NCSoft for obvious reasons, but the PvE-game-design in Blade & Soul is outstanding and should have been what Anet should have strived for. No holy trinity, skill-based combat which is focused on damage-avoidance (rather than face-tanking with aegis-spam), balanced dps-potentials, PvE where every member has to carry his/her own weight, and so on.

 

Nonetheless, this game has serious community-problems which have led to having a two-class society. I hope that Anet will adress that problem rather sooner than later, 'cause having such a serious issue isn't healthy for MMORPGs.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Nonetheless, this game has serious community-problems which have led to having a two-class society. I hope that Anet will adress that problem rather sooner than later, 'cause having such a serious issue isn't healthy for MMORPGs.

 

Anet created this problem themselves. They tried to cater to everyone and at the end breeded multiple groups within community with conflicting goals and expectations. Game had no clear idea for itself for a long time and now it's hard or imo even impossible for anet to fix this. This community will always be conflicted.

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > Nonetheless, this game has serious community-problems which have led to having a two-class society. I hope that Anet will adress that problem rather sooner than later, 'cause having such a serious issue isn't healthy for MMORPGs.

>

> Anet created this problem themselves. They tried to cater to everyone and at the end breeded multiple groups within community with conflicting goals and expectations. Game had no clear idea for itself for a long time and now it's hard or imo even impossible for anet to fix this. This community will always be conflicted.

>

>

 

While Anet undeniably has contributed to the problem; it still largely is a community-problem. More sophisticated content for invested players isn't a bad thing; it's actually healthy for MMORPGs. The problem is the mentality of the community. While there are some more complex raids, there also are easy raids which would be PUG-content in other MMORPGs like: you decide which role do you want to play and the game automatically matches you with other people - no LFG involved. It could be a problem with the current MMORPG-generation though. Back when I started with MMORPGs, it was kinda normal that veterans explained stuff to new players and gave them a chance to participate in new content so they themselves could also explain stuff to the following generation of players. It was kinda normal to spend time on beating content, figuring out mechanics and having fun doing that. Nowadays, MMORPG-communities are so very much loot- and progress-focused, having to do everything as fast as possible for the sake of efficiency. I myself was in some hardcore-progress-guilds in previous games I played, also leading statics for more sophisticated content. It can really burn you out since in its essence, it's nothing else than work. I guess I kinda miss the fun-aspect of games and raids actually are fun - if you can get into them.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > Nonetheless, this game has serious community-problems which have led to having a two-class society. I hope that Anet will adress that problem rather sooner than later, 'cause having such a serious issue isn't healthy for MMORPGs.

> >

> > Anet created this problem themselves. They tried to cater to everyone and at the end breeded multiple groups within community with conflicting goals and expectations. Game had no clear idea for itself for a long time and now it's hard or imo even impossible for anet to fix this. This community will always be conflicted.

> >

> >

>

> While Anet undeniably has contributed to the problem; it still largely is a community-problem. More sophisticated content for invested players isn't a bad thing; it's actually healthy for MMORPGs. The problem is the mentality of the community. While there are some more complex raids, there also are easy raids which would be PUG-content in other MMORPGs like: you decide which role do you want to play and the game automatically matches you with other people - no LFG involved. It could be a problem with the current MMORPG-generation though. Back when I started with MMORPGs, it was kinda normal that veterans explained stuff to new players and gave them a chance to participate in new content so they themselves could also explain stuff to the following generation of players. It was kinda normal to spend time on beating content, figuring out mechanics and having fun doing that. Nowadays, MMORPG-communities are so very much loot- and progress-focused, having to do everything as fast as possible for the sake of efficiency. I myself was in some hardcore-progress-guilds in previous games I played, also leading statics for more sophisticated content. It can really burn you out since in its essence, it's nothing else than work. I guess I kinda miss the fun-aspect of games and raids actually are fun - if you can get into them.

 

I agree with you. My point is that Anet created this as game had no direction in 3 years. HoT changed it but players were already used to playing badly and winning. Raiding made it obvious that it's not for everyone, but Anet never prepared the community for this shift.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > Nonetheless, this game has serious community-problems which have led to having a two-class society. I hope that Anet will adress that problem rather sooner than later, 'cause having such a serious issue isn't healthy for MMORPGs.

>

> Anet created this problem themselves. They tried to cater to everyone and at the end breeded multiple groups within community with conflicting goals and expectations. Game had no clear idea for itself for a long time and now it's hard or imo even impossible for anet to fix this. This community will always be conflicted.

>

>

 

If we have some perspective which I just got recently doing a little Map Completion for an hour, all this fixation we have on group content is misguided, Raids and Fractals are really nothing but table scraps thrown to a subset of people that miss the trappings of more traditional MMOs. The true beauty of this game, where I think the passion of the developers is actually focused is the Open World, the Meta events, those achievements, those lore nuggets, the collections. This game doesn't have a strong narrative because as a former GM and friend Vayne put it the story is in the ambient stuff you see around you it's what breathes life into what you see and makes the game feel kind of sand box like (perhaps we need some Sand Box features built into the Open World to revitalize old content).

 

These Raids, perhaps even Fractals are not meant for the Core population, I think only people that are stuck in a hell of our own making are grasping at something in this game that is not what it's actual identity is.

 

Ah well I'm rambling but hopefully you get the point, I don't always get this game but sometimes it just clicks and hopefully the devs see it and think 'right on some one got it finally'.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> These Raids, perhaps even Fractals are not meant for the Core population

Devs (based on their actions and statements) seem to have the idea that the endgame for _everyone_ in PvE lies in fractals, and then graduating to raids. And that people that haven't yet reached that point should up their game and try harder. This influences both the attitude of the whole community, as well as the game design. In the end, it's not the community's doing but Anet's, and only anet could change that. Assuming they wanted to, which at the moment they don't.

 

They don't seem to think the way you do at all.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> >

> > We got a raid after a year and the fractals team doesnt plan on making and fractal cms any time soon. Perfection idd.

> >

> > I suppose what im asking is dont kitten over a mode while revitalising another. Just focus on them equally wether its with one getting content while the other gets much needed system updates and vice versa.

>

> I don't think they should develop content equally. Content priorities should be directed by playerbase. The more players play certain part of the game, the more money they gonna spend every new addition.

 

Iirc lw updates, raids, fractals, current events are free. So idk really whats the exclusive thing that that playerbase would pay for that other wouldnt. And besides pvp can be advertised better than pve if they resotre to a good state and ppl start making content about it.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> > >

> > > We got a raid after a year and the fractals team doesnt plan on making and fractal cms any time soon. Perfection idd.

> > >

> > > I suppose what im asking is dont kitten over a mode while revitalising another. Just focus on them equally wether its with one getting content while the other gets much needed system updates and vice versa.

> >

> > I don't think they should develop content equally. Content priorities should be directed by playerbase. The more players play certain part of the game, the more money they gonna spend every new addition.

>

> Iirc lw updates, raids, fractals, current events are free. So idk really whats the exclusive thing that that playerbase would pay for that other wouldnt. And besides pvp can be advertised better than pve if they resotre to a good state and ppl start making content about it.

 

PvE additions come with related gemstore stuff. Also late/new players are buying LW episodes with gems. Somehow I don't see gemstore promotions and creating hype for pvp seasons or tournaments.

 

"Buy new Christmas Sindrenner outfit for your characters for 7 days only!"

 

"Open Black Lion Chests for new exclusive Helseth minipet!"

[zealex.9410]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> > > >

> > > > We got a raid after a year and the fractals team doesnt plan on making and fractal cms any time soon. Perfection idd.

> > > >

> > > > I suppose what im asking is dont kitten over a mode while revitalising another. Just focus on them equally wether its with one getting content while the other gets much needed system updates and vice versa.

> > >

> > > I don't think they should develop content equally. Content priorities should be directed by playerbase. The more players play certain part of the game, the more money they gonna spend every new addition.

> >

> > Iirc lw updates, raids, fractals, current events are free. So idk really whats the exclusive thing that that playerbase would pay for that other wouldnt. And besides pvp can be advertised better than pve if they resotre to a good state and ppl start making content about it.

>

> PvE additions come with related gemstore stuff. Also late/new players are buying LW episodes with gems. Somehow I don't see gemstore promotions and creating hype for pvp seasons or tournaments.

>

> "Buy new Christmas Sindrenner outfit for your characters for 7 days only!"

>

> "Open Black Lion Chests for new exclusive Helseth minipet!"

 

Yeah because that sniper rifle or that rox quiver only pve players will buy.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > @"Adry.7512" said:

> > > > > > I’ve said this before, but now it seems even more obvious. Expect a focus on WvW and PvP, and please try not to give a huge push back when it happens. Pve has finally reached its perfection and all it needs is just new content with the same blueprint. But WVW and PVP has been starving for a while. And while you may think that Anet doesn’t care about WVW and PVP, you’re wrong; they just needed to put their game on a good platform so it wouldn’t die out. Now expect their focus to shift towards the PvP side because this game really needs it, it’s the only thing it lacks. Regardless of whether pve players complain when it happens, it will happen, so expect it. I’m just excited about what they will come up with.

> > > > >

> > > > > We got a raid after a year and the fractals team doesnt plan on making and fractal cms any time soon. Perfection idd.

> > > > >

> > > > > I suppose what im asking is dont kitten over a mode while revitalising another. Just focus on them equally wether its with one getting content while the other gets much needed system updates and vice versa.

> > > >

> > > > I don't think they should develop content equally. Content priorities should be directed by playerbase. The more players play certain part of the game, the more money they gonna spend every new addition.

> > >

> > > Iirc lw updates, raids, fractals, current events are free. So idk really whats the exclusive thing that that playerbase would pay for that other wouldnt. And besides pvp can be advertised better than pve if they resotre to a good state and ppl start making content about it.

> >

> > PvE additions come with related gemstore stuff. Also late/new players are buying LW episodes with gems. Somehow I don't see gemstore promotions and creating hype for pvp seasons or tournaments.

> >

> > "Buy new Christmas Sindrenner outfit for your characters for 7 days only!"

> >

> > "Open Black Lion Chests for new exclusive Helseth minipet!"

>

> Yeah because that sniper rifle or that rox quiver only pve players will buy.

 

These skins are related to PvE. They wouldn't be there if not for PvE content only.

[dace.8019]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Game is 6 years old and has bad reputation for competitive players. There's nothing to fix, that ship has sailed and devs passionate about competitive mode were on that ship.

 

Can't agree with this enough. The game has almost all the ingredients to be a great competitive game, the realisation of those assets failed them and the damage can't be undone, but at least the game's PvE is excellent and well respected, especially from HoT onwards.

 

The competitive people have my sympathy but are only fooling themselves if they think ANet will change 6 years worth of direction to revitalise a now dismissed aspect of the game.

 

 

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> > These Raids, perhaps even Fractals are not meant for the Core population

> Devs (based on their actions and statements) seem to have the idea that the endgame for _everyone_ in PvE lies in fractals, and then graduating to raids. And that people that haven't yet reached that point should up their game and try harder. This influences both the attitude of the whole community, as well as the game design. In the end, it's not the community's doing but Anet's, and only anet could change that. Assuming they wanted to, which at the moment they don't.

>

> They don't seem to think the way you do at all.

>

>

 

But Anet never said that everyone needs to play endgame content. If you want to play endgame content, then it's fractals and raids, yes, but you can just enjoy the game without it and completely ignore them. I find this way better than upscaling open world content. Imagine they would make meta events as hard as fractals and raids, it would drive part of the player base away from the game. It#s the same with instanced content. If they removed fractals or made them as easy as open world, I would probably get bored and leave. The way it is different kinds of players get offered different kinds of content. Even WvW players get their content, and I don't have to care at all about them.

 

There is some talk in the last posts about the "problem" this game has, but nobody here actually explained what the problem is exactly.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

>

> Game is 6 years old and has bad reputation for competitive players. There's nothing to fix, that ship has sailed and devs passionate about competitive mode were on that ship.

>

This. All the current twisting in the wind on the forums about PvP and WvW will do nothing to save it. It's done. The sooner everyone realizes this game has always been about casual PvE, the better.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> But Anet never said that everyone needs to play endgame content. If you want to play endgame content, then it's fractals and raids, yes, but you can just enjoy the game without it and completely ignore them.

Heh, now it's "but you don't have to play endgame content", but originally it was "the whole game is the endgame". Don't you see an attitude shift in this at all?

There's currently the message being sent that yes, you can play in the kiddie playground of Open World, see the story, but if you want to be a _real_ player and get the _real_ rewards, well, there's the endgame. Which no longer equates to the whole game.

 

And if you don't want to play it, it's obviously not because you don't like it, but because you're not good enough.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > But Anet never said that everyone needs to play endgame content. If you want to play endgame content, then it's fractals and raids, yes, but you can just enjoy the game without it and completely ignore them.

> Heh, now it's "but you don't have to play endgame content", but originally it was "the whole game is the endgame". Don't you see an attitude shift in this at all?

> There's currently the message being sent that yes, you can play in the kiddie playground of Open World, see the story, but if you want to be a _real_ player and get the _real_ rewards, well, there's the endgame. Which no longer equates to the whole game.

>

> And if you don't want to play it, it's obviously not because you don't like it, but because you're not good enough.

 

While I agree with the shift of approach and I don't really like GW2 after HoT as much as I did before, the rewards... well... unless you have a mindset of a raider, playing raids is worthless. Skins are mostly lame, legendary armor can be already afk farmed in pvp and wvw, trinkets are easy to get from other sources, miniatures are irrelevant gameplay wise and as of gold... You probably lose gold when training raids buying food and wiping constantly.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > But Anet never said that everyone needs to play endgame content. If you want to play endgame content, then it's fractals and raids, yes, but you can just enjoy the game without it and completely ignore them.

> Heh, now it's "but you don't have to play endgame content", but originally it was "the whole game is the endgame". Don't you see an attitude shift in this at all?

> There's currently the message being sent that yes, you can play in the kiddie playground of Open World, see the story, but if you want to be a _real_ player and get the _real_ rewards, well, there's the endgame. Which no longer equates to the whole game.

>

> And if you don't want to play it, it's obviously not because you don't like it, but because you're not good enough.

 

lmao, have you seen some of the outfits and weapon skins I can buy out of the Gem Store , they blow Legendary Armor out of the water. The best part about Outfits are they don't clip. If ANet really cared whether we raided or not then they'd properly balance the game, so as far as I'm concerned until I can take a Power Reaper into a PUG Raid with no issues then ANet clearly doesn't care how many people play Raids.

[sorudo.9054]

believe me, PvE is not even a faction close to perfection, nothing in PvE is anywhere near as dynamic or immersive or RPG friendly as it could be.

if PvE is as close to perfection as you say it is then we would have a world that is dynamic by it self, a world we can interact with, a living breathing world that is self sufficient, a world that makes every interaction matter and every event is triggered depending on what we as players do.

 

but none of that is in GW2, so it's sufficient to say PvE is not even worth calling finished let alone perfect.