Pof vs Hot

[AliamRationem.5172]

I enjoy both, but I would say HoT was the better expansion. Event structure, rewards, and map design were simply more to my tastes in HoT. PoF has too much empty space and I would prefer a better ratio of big events and chain events to one-off events. It also doesn't feel as rewarding as HoT.

 

I really think moving more toward a core Tyria style event structure (hearts, more one-off events, fewer chain events and map meta events) was a mistake. With HoT it was easy to find the action. You know when the meta for each map is going to happen and, when you zone into an HoT map, you can see event progress at each outpost across the entire map at a glance.

 

By comparison, PoF feels like running across a vast expanse, seeking action but rarely finding any. Once you do find it, it's usually just a one-off event and you're done with nothing leading you on or further involving you in what's going on locally as well as how it relates to what's happening in the rest of the map. To make this process a bit more annoying, mobs seem to aggro from an insanely long distance and because many areas require you to be out of combat in order to navigate the terrain, you end up having to clear half an army's worth of enemies just to swap mounts! It doesn't help that the rewards feel pretty thin in PoF as well.

 

 

 

[evilsofa.7296]

PoF felt like easy mode after HoT.

[zealex.9410]

Hot. But i would surely love an expansion which would balance out the metas and replayability of hot and the story and size of pof. (Im asking for hot just bigger and with better story, same dificulty and same replayability from hot 2.0)

 

I enjoyed more the progression in hot and getting upgrades felt better because they werent so easy to aquire.

 

I also got the feel of an mmo from it having such a big focus be on griup activities and communication. Something that is criminally lacking from pof.

 

The incentives where also more having legendary armors and weapons tied to it.

 

In pof i loves tho the mounts so id like masteries like that in hot. But pof had no lore masteries which was a shame for me.

 

Also i believe the maps in hot are legit a work of art. Every mmo that i have played i always compaire it map design and look wise to gw2. Honestly the map designers should be proud the hot maps are some of the best maps i hae ever seen in any game.

 

Not to say the pof maps are bad because they are not. They are beautifully crafted with nice detail and some instances in the story are breath taking. But idk tbe complexity and connectivity of the hot maps is like on a diff lvl.

 

All in all the ideal expac should be a mix of both not another extreme. (But maybe leaning a tad bit more towards hot ;) )

[zealex.9410]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> Hot. But i would surely love an expansion which would balance out the metas and replayability of hot and the story and size of pof. (Im asking for hot just bigger and with better story, same dificulty and same replayability from hot 2.0)

>

> I enjoyed more the progression in hot and getting upgrades felt better because they werent so easy to aquire.

>

> I also got the feel of an mmo from it having such a big focus be on griup activities and communication. Something that is criminally lacking from pof.

>

> The incentives where also more having legendary armors and weapons tied to it.

>

> In pof i loves tho the mounts so id like masteries like that in hot. But pof had no lore masteries which was a shame for me.

 

Also @"Zexall.6305" u should have made this a poll thread m8 that would be interesting.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

For me, HoT has far more replay; however, the best thing to come out of PoF was the mounts which, to me, was very much needed. Makes going through older content much more enjoyable.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> I found HoT to have less replayability and to be less enjoyable overall. Not to say that PoF is perfect but it was head and shoulders better than HoT in my opinion.

 

Explain me how Hot had less replayability than pof?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

For me:

 

+ Exploration/Map Design: PoF in a landslide. I found navigating HoT maps to not be enjoyable. This resulted in wanting to be done with what I was doing there ASAP, which hindered any attempts at familiarizing myself with them. PoF maps just don't have that going on. I enjoyed using mounts to find my way to the exploration objectives in PoF, whereas between the can't-get-there-from-here and event gating in HoT, I found exploration there to be a pain.

+ Hero Challenges: Again, PoF, but not by a lot. Half or more of the issues I had with HoT HC's was getting to the ones that were not in VB (those I can find at this point). Since I counted map design above, I'm not going to count it here. That said, I disliked HC's gated by meta events (DS), and find certain of the Champions to have annoying mechanics. The Vet challenges in PoF feel more like what exploration objectives ought to be. I can see why the leading edge of players would dislike them, though, as they are really trivial if done in trains, which I'm sure was what happened when PoF first dropped. Since I don't play enough, or long enough, to run with the leading edge, PoF challenges were more suited to my play-style.

+ Meta Events: HoT, but not by huge amounts. HoT metas are much better designed, and have demonstrated much better staying power. For me though, the on-a-timer nature, the lengthy cycles and the clustering to one (or more) active maps via taxi meant they were not really aimed at me.

+ Other Events: PoF, not because the non-meta events in HoT are bad, but because there are more such events in PoF.

+ Rewards: HoT. PoF's major contribution to GW2 rewards is the Unidentified Loot container, which is the best thing since sliced virtual bread. However, HoT rewards are both bigger, and better. Since a lot of players congregate to rewards, this has meant that PoF is going to be underutilized.

+ Story: I can't offer an opinion, as ANet story instance tech and my ISP don't like each other. Completing a story instance is a major undertaking due to DC's during the final long-winded exposition by NPC's. Every once in a while I get lucky, but by and large completing a story instance involves so many run-throughs of the same thing that I find it hard to muster the interest to try. That's likely where I will remain until ANet either puts in a function to save progress, such as they had in GW, or they allow me to skip what amounts to cut-scenes, which they also had in GW.

+ Mobs: It's hard to pick a clear winner. Mob diversity is great in both XPac's. Both feature mobs that are offer greater difficulty than core. Other than a couple of mobs in HoT, and a couple in PoF, they are about equal in terms of challenge offered. Both have their share of annoying mob mechanics. The one thing that maybe gives HoT mobs an edge is that ANet did a better job of designing glass mobs in HoT. High-damage mobs like Shadowleapers have few HP. I don't really see that in PoF.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

I prefer PoF to Hot, mostly because:

 

1: I feel mounts added more entertainment value than gliders. HoT masteries were too restricted to HoT maps (such as bouncy mushrooms, etc), whereas PoF masteries for mounts are more universally beneficial. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that mounts are, in my opinion, the most valuable addition to the game so far out of any living story, content update or expansion (tied probably with the wardrobe update).

 

2: I prefer PoF maps to HoT maps. They feel a bit less convoluted, while still giving you a good amount to do. HoT meta events got repetitive very fast and you couldn't do much else because the maps revolved almost exclusively around those meta events and their subsequent time frames. Exploration also felt better in PoF, because you weren't locked out of areas through meta event time gates. You could explore at your own pace, in your own time.

 

3: I found I liked more of the weapons and armor added for PoF than those added with HoT.

 

4: HoT's content releases were too staggered. A lot of the features advertised for the expansion were only included months after release. Some promised content was also not delivered on (for example, ANet gave up on legendary journeys for all the new legendaries). With PoF, you at least got what was advertised at launch.

 

5: Following point 4, I feel the post launch updates for PoF have been paced much better. Living story season 4 started soon after the release of the expansion, which is a far cry from the eight months we had to wait for LS3 after HoT launched.

 

6: Story wise, both were similar in quality, but I did find myself enjoying some of the instanced content in PoF more. In particular, I enjoyed fighting Balthazar more than Mordremoth and felt he was a better villain overall, because at the very least, you got to interact with him directly on a few occasions, while Mordremoth was more like background noise until the final encounter.

 

7: Price. This is actually quite important. PoF released at a much better price point than HoT.

[Ardid.7203]

HoT was a gamechanger for quite a lot of concepts in the world of MMORPGs. It was a bomb of innovation and creativity, from the multi-layered maps to the meta events, masteries, adventures, use of CC, mob behavior, elite specs, 3d exploration, etc.

IMO: Brave, exciting, unique, deep, fun.

 

PoF gave us Mounts and a step back into "safety" for everything else.

IMO: Cushioned, conservative, trite, shallow, boring.

[Lexi.1398]

I like HoT way more than PoF myself.

 

While PoF is nicer to navigate for sure, and it's kinda nice not needing to rely on groups for half of the content, there's...nothing to do, and the lack of group events that people want to do means I can't even have fun there.

I mean sure, i still need junudu rising, maw of torment related achieves and a bunch of funery collections done - but NO ONE wants to do those events, so they're impossible to complete and they'll stay in my achieves for months, sitting there until that rare opportunity comes that i'm awake and free to do these things when a big group also wants to do them...which, thus far, has been never. And even then, if i manage to complete these collections? That's it, that's all I have left to do in PoF.

 

HoT is great, i've had very little difficulty finding people for group events, I LOVE the big scale metas (DS <3) and the challenging fights, I still have stuff to do - collections that are actually viable for me to complete! - and I do HoT meta events just for fun because I can and they're viable to do, and I can gain a lot of gold on the side. The experience wall was never an issue for me because I love the content. The only issue I have with HoT is that a lot of mp and collections are locked behind adventures - and I hate 99% of HoT's adventures.

 

 

[blambidy.3216]

> @"evilsofa.7296" said:

> PoF felt like easy mode after HoT.

 

Agreed. Solo all hps by myself with my thief before I got deadeye. Pof bosses are indeed 2x easier atleast.

[EpicName.4523]

PoF>HoT for one single reason - maps. Maps in HoT are a mess, multiple levels of mess that feels like a giant deathtrap full of holes, traps and deadly enemies every step which are difficult and annoying to navigate through. Some may like this, but not me.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Path of Fire has the better maps. Heart of Thorns has the better events and story.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"EpicName.4523" said:

> PoF>HoT for one single reason - maps. Maps in HoT are a mess, multiple levels of mess that feels like a giant deathtrap full of holes, traps and deadly enemies every step which are difficult and annoying to navigate through. Some may like this, but not me.

 

Yeah, a giant deathtrap full of holes, traps, deadly enemies...or as I like to call it: "fun!"

 

I can see why these maps aren't universally appreciated, but I love pretty much everything about the HoT maps. Exploration was a blast and finally mastering maps like VB and TD was especially rewarding. Speaking of rewards, HoT seems to have more of them. The events are better, too. Chain events, mapwide meta events. Right down to the metas on timers and event progress markers on the map. It's easy to know where to go and when and there's action and rewards everywhere! Just my kind of map!

[TheGrimm.5624]

I admit, I have no interest in finishing any of the PoF maps at this time.They are quite beautiful but to me they aren't interesting and they don't feel replayable. Gave them time but its like forcing yourself to try and like something. To try and spin it to a positive happy to see others that enjoy them and it seems that ANet released two different products that catered to two different market elements. The question with the next expansion is can they find something that meets in the middle. But no HoT is still replayable but PoF missed out on the formula to me. Have to agree with some of the above. Been trying to figure it out and I think it boils down to chain events. Have said it before there is something progressive in building a map up to series of events. Its an MMO and if its PvE then it needs to be working towards something else, whats holding your attention. That's an important piece, why should I spend time doing this. It always needs to be fun, but outside of that, why do it. If that element isn't captured then your targeting a single player 15 min game audience versus an MMO audience.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> I admit, I have no interest in finishing any of the PoF maps at this time.They are quite beautiful but to me they aren't interesting and they don't feel replayable. Gave them time but its like forcing yourself to try and like something. To try and spin it to a positive happy to see others that enjoy them and it seems that ANet released two different products that catered to two different market elements. The question with the next expansion is can they find something that meets in the middle. But no HoT is still replayable but PoF missed out on the formula to me. Have to agree with some of the above. Been trying to figure it out and I think it boils down to chain events. Have said it before there is something progressive in building a map up to series of events. Its an MMO and if its PvE then it needs to be working towards something else, whats holding your attention. That's an important piece, why should I spend time doing this. It always needs to be fun, but outside of that, why do it. If that element isn't captured then your targeting a single player 15 min game audience versus an MMO audience.

 

So you're saying Swordsmaster Faren needs to visit the Crystal Desert?

[TheGrimm.5624]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > I admit, I have no interest in finishing any of the PoF maps at this time.They are quite beautiful but to me they aren't interesting and they don't feel replayable. Gave them time but its like forcing yourself to try and like something. To try and spin it to a positive happy to see others that enjoy them and it seems that ANet released two different products that catered to two different market elements. The question with the next expansion is can they find something that meets in the middle. But no HoT is still replayable but PoF missed out on the formula to me. Have to agree with some of the above. Been trying to figure it out and I think it boils down to chain events. Have said it before there is something progressive in building a map up to series of events. Its an MMO and if its PvE then it needs to be working towards something else, whats holding your attention. That's an important piece, why should I spend time doing this. It always needs to be fun, but outside of that, why do it. If that element isn't captured then your targeting a single player 15 min game audience versus an MMO audience.

>

> So you're saying Swordsmaster Faren needs to visit the Crystal Desert?

 

lol. I thought that's why we left him to mind Lion's Arch while we were away. I am sure we can expect a visitation some where in the future though.

[Hexinx.1872]

I enjoyed HoT .... but felt the frustrations around the gear grind to get/unlock anything. It seriously felt you had to pick a few collections and go with it.... if you had lots of alts, there is stuff to collect for years. But I did find it a pain if I just wanted to say unlock all my alt elite specs. Some heroes points were very challenging to solo before hero point trains became a thing. I hope PoF allows me to unlock my alt elite specs much faster. I just started it, bought it last weekend

[Dabrixmgp.4758]

I hate HoT. Having a Z-axis makes everything overly complicated. I spent 2 hours one day trying to unlock HPs and ended up with 2.

[Eclipse.6203]

Something I hate about PoF is that brought back hearts and made them repeatable. They also locked mounts behined gold, which would not be a problem except they made the gold price higher if the heart was not completed after, and the griffon price seem too high for casuals like me. Also bounties. I like HoT hps more than PoF bounties becuse HoT had hp trains all the time, but with bounties you have to wait ages to find a group doing a specific bounty or wait in group ages until they get to a specific bounty. I waited over a week just looking for a chance to do warmonger.

[Castigator.3470]

> @"TwilightSoul.9048" said:

> I like PoF and hate HoT more than I can put into words. I don't like to play based on a shedule.

> Oh you would like to get some HP's? Too bad, now you have to do the Meta and then you have to find a group because there is no way you could ever solo this HP.

> You actually want to do a meta now? Sorry bud, you'll have to wait an hour. What was that, you need something for your Legendary that is not tradable and locked behind a meta that lasts 2hours, is boring as kitten, requires no skill whatsoever and limited to that one region you'll never enter unless you need that meta? Boy do I have something for you.

>

> Yeah, HoT has a lot of replayability, because there is no way around it weather you like it or not... We should've just lured primordus into Maguuma and have him turn it into another wasteland so we never have to do those boring metas again. But man HoT really is a nice challenge for a change, finally I can stand in one spot and press 1 for 15 Minutes straight granted I run from A to B every once in a while for some arbituary mechanic that doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm capable of. GREAT!

>

> PoF isn't perfect either but at least it doesn't force me to shedule my entire playtime according to some timers just so that I can get the loot I want (because there isn't any specific loot in PoF that you could possibly want).

>

> What I prefer about PoF is that there is a lot more you can do solo or in small groups and the metas are at least a tiny bit more fun (although that might be due to the fact that I haven't grinded them to death yet).

>

> I'd like to see an expansion where we actually have to explore, with lot's of hidden secrets that are actually rewarding if you manage to find them, hidden challenges and all that stuff - but think of a way to make them less predictable so that you can't just check dulfy and finish everything within a few days by following a guide... Make it more engaging, maybe an NPC's roaming through a huge map or something like that (Yes I know about Guild Missions).

rant

Oh, yes! I knew I wasn't the only one!

 

I came to dislike the HoT maps, because whenever you wanted to do something, the timer would strike and its off to the meta again. My guildmates had to put up with my complaints about the tyrrany of the evil timer. The other problem was to find a large amount of players, so you could actually complete the meta. The maps were usually full, so you couldn't join, when you and your partymembers were (again) placed on a different map, than you were. And if they were not full, they were so empty you could hear crickets.ogg playing almost impercievably in the background.

 

Eventually, I just quit the map in disgust, whenever the "great last battle" started.

The metas would have been more enjoyable, if you could just enter a map, progress it, complete the meta, then after ten minutes it resets, to be progressed based on the player's activity and not some arbitrary timer.

 

But there is, of course, the worst offender: Dragon's Stand. Every two hours, the server creates an arbitrary number of map instances, most of which will never even begin the map event, to destroy against all odds, the Mouth of Mordremoth, who is, unlike the mouth of Zhaitan, just an ordinary body part. So far, so good. Except the exploration of this map was locked behind the completion of this meta event, which meant you had to do the event and have enough time left to actually smell the flowers.

Which forced me to rush exploration of an otherwise very interesting map. I came to loathe the concept* of the meta event map and was glad to see, that PoF gave me enough time to spend with the Elonians, learn their customs and even how to brew their coffee at my own choosing.

 

*I even did all the achievements for dragon's stand, so I'd never have to enter this zone again.

/rant

 

Of course the PoF maps are not perfect, but at least exploring them is a lot smoother than HoT. You can always take a minute to cruise around the countryside on a raptor, maybe do a race, come back to a local event chain, complete that and be off again!

 

PS: While trying to do proper HTML rant tags, I found the forum actually attempts to process them. Cool! - I mean, interesting.

[Adenin.5973]

I played PoF for around 2 weeks very actively and then basically never went back to these maps (exception is istan but I don't count this ).

 

Reasons:

- Empty maps (too large and too low player cap), not much going on there, only generic small events that most often lead into nothing at all

- Super boring bounties, that combine low zerg fps, with now even lower zerg on mounts fps, with a walking/running/riding simulator to a static boss where any efforts of a single player aren't even noticeable,just to basically get no rewards at all after completing them and then porting back to a board just to repeat everything 20 times in a row, just to move on to the next map until everyone gets the achievement and never looks at them again. Terrible design! If I want that gameplay I go and play WvW following an PvE commander around to farm some rank and pips, at least I get some unique skins doing that.

- No map wide metas, with multiple event chains that are telegraphed for every player on the map, leading to a massive boss fight, with a good old loot fest at the end

- The HoT jungle had some sense of mystery, that it could just take one step to fall through a hole in the ground discovering something great. And while I really think the PoF maps look amazing, there is somehow almost no sense of wonder while exploring them, probably because you can see everything from miles away and because you rush through the content on your mount always being careful not to dismount because the enemies aggro you from like 10,000 range away and you will have to fight an endless army of super annoying minions each time you dismount so you can get back on your mount again

- No legendaries tied to PoF. And the HoT way of acquiring the 2nd generation is easier and cheaper than the afterthought PoF way of doing it

- PoF continues the outrageous trend of LS maps of reintroducing not only Hearts (areas where you have to kill everything and/or interact with everything, 5-10 times on each map, which is literally the most uninspired, static and boring thing I've ever seen in any major MMO) but these Hearts need to be done again and again and again if you want to use any vendor.

- PoF has no significant way of acquiring gold, these maps can't compete with HoT meta maps or silverwastes, so after 2 expansions have hit the game, the sad truth is that a huge amount of players is still doing RIBA over and over again to grind gold

- The masteries are in no way the progression system for expansions that Anet promised us once. Everything was tied to mounts, the points were super easy to get, the exp needed was no big deal, while I appreciate anet for not making artificial and unnecessary time sinks (at least not here) they need to really think if the mastery system has even a place in this game anymore, if it only serves its purpose for 5-10 days after an expansion. HoT masteries felt not that much better but still, PoF was a step backwards to make the mastery system even more useless

- No incentive to group up in PoF maps. Yes in HoT and vanilla the "group aspect" was also not really there but because the maps in HoT were much more packed with events and event chains, npcs, enemies, map wide long metas, champions as hero challenges etc, you were not only much more likely to meet someone on these maps, there was also a reason why you wanted to stay together for a while or why you were glad that someone helped you. I don't get that feeling with the PoF maps. Playing the new maps feels like experiencing the "filler content" of a single player game, a single player game that gets carried by its great story experience in a way that GW2 just can't deliver as an MMORPG.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

balance wise, its better with pof but they screwed the pooch on both. a lot better tho.

pof maps are a ton more fun to navigate, I like the desert atmosphere since I grew up in one. didn't feel either way with hot, got really annoying at some spots tho.

hot more replay ability like others have said.

I was a lot more excited for pof specialization wise then hot. hot was spammy mcspammerson game play. pof specs seem more interesting thematically for some reason, altho not so much with scourge lol. the support is cool tho and I like that part of it.

mounts > gliding 100%

enemies seem stronger in pof which I like

then some more stuff

[Demented Sheep.1642]

I prefer HoT.

 

I like the story in HoT better though I'm a bit bias since I like the Sylavri and I had figured they were probably going to turn out to be dragon minions when the game was released. I kinda feel like Balth was wasted. I get that he isn't Lyssa so manipulation isn't strong suit but even still, if hadn't been a total dumbass about it and come in hostile he could have most of the human population on his side. You trying to convince people that killing the dragons will make things worse and that you were right to stop him killing 2 vs a God returned to lead people against the dragons saying he's got this? yeah, you're going have issues coming out on top in that. Even more so if you are Sylvari who still have hangover trust issues from HoT or a Charr because of the history (both ancient and recent) between them and humans. If you were human many would probably see you as being a traitor to your race. Also maybe I'm nitpicking or missed something but how the hell did Aurene even get all the way from the Jungle to Crystal desert to be captured like that and the WTF were her guardians even doing? Another point that I find annoying is that you condemn Balthazar as obliviously having bad intentions because he is willing to kill innocent people and then later on the story you fake a sunspear rebellion in one of Joko's villages (one in which you already have events like trying to stop Joko's spies reporting on discontent because otherwise those people could be killed) without even acknowledging the fact that they would have to deal with fallout.

I'm not sure I like the shift from military to small group of heros doing all this largely by themselves.

 

I like the harder mobs and I like the maps better overall. Jungle is more my jam than a desert and I like the multilayered maze structure even if I can make finding a specific thing annoying.

I like that there are map events although HoT was way too over reliant on them and having parts of the map blocked off depending on which events had been done got annoying. It made it impossible to just chill and explore. The Dragon Stand meta event has an "epic" feel to it but it just takes way to long to do, especially since you have to get in early for a map that has a good chance of succeeding. I can certainly see why they didn't repeat that since I don't think it would be good for all or even most of the new maps to follow the HoT meta event model but having some more interesting events would have been nice because PoF feels a bit empty.

I'm not sure I like that hearts are back.

I am glad that the mastery gating wasn't as bad in PoF because that was something I really disliked in HoT and had stopped me from enjoying the maps when it first came out.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"EpicName.4523" said:

> > PoF>HoT for one single reason - maps. Maps in HoT are a mess, multiple levels of mess that feels like a giant deathtrap full of holes, traps and deadly enemies every step which are difficult and annoying to navigate through. Some may like this, but not me.

>

> Yeah, a giant deathtrap full of holes, traps, deadly enemies...or as I like to call it: "fun!"

>

> I can see why these maps aren't universally appreciated, but I love pretty much everything about the HoT maps. Exploration was a blast and finally mastering maps like VB and TD was especially rewarding. Speaking of rewards, HoT seems to have more of them. The events are better, too. Chain events, mapwide meta events. Right down to the metas on timers and event progress markers on the map. It's easy to know where to go and when and there's action and rewards everywhere! Just my kind of map!

 

The only HoT map that “sucks” is Tangled Depths because of how the map/mini map is woefully inadequate when it comes to accurately dealing with multi-leveled areas. Verdant Brink still works because it really only has two very distinct levels: jungle floor and canopy.

 

The downfall with the PoF maps is how dead and static they feel. Just like core Tyria. With HoT there is almost always something going on and the maps feel designed to funnel people to those hotspots.