What can we change to make leveling to 80 non-boring and not make new players leave?

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

The NPE was the worst change ever made to the game. It was a lot of work that only delayed players from experiencing anything until someone in an office cube thought they would be ready instead of the player. They would have been better off giving a toggle to the player to ask, Is this an additional account and you know how to play this game? Do you learn quick and want to dive in? or Do you want to be hand held through the steps to lean the mechanics? If they don't pick the last one, open everything and let them play.

[Jitsuryoku.9038]

While I agree with some points in this thread, I can't agree with the leveling being too slow.... If players are leaving , don't assume it's because of leveling - I've seen a lot more newbs quit after being rejected from raid/fractals (because they didn't have the gear/experience they were expected to have) than I've seen quitting due to leveling.

I'm in a guild that accepts newbs all the time, so I kinda see a lot of people using lvl 80 boost and then leaving the game a few weeks later when they get overwhelmed by everything they need to cover to get their first ascended sets and get into raids or high tier fractals.

 

**Stop treating newbs like children**, believe it or not most people who play MMORPGs expect to grind when they join, and gw2 is by far the lightest game on grind. Leveling to 80 is only slow on first 1 or 2 characters if you explore (and it's not boring for the first time) - **AS IT SHOULD BE**. At least by leveling slowly they learn their class...

 

**It took me 20 hours to do full world completion**, while stating at level 1 (only using a few silver to buy rare equipment once at level 40 and once more at 60) and actually focusing on it. It takes about 30-45% (depending on maps you do) of world completion to reach lvl 80 with bare minimum of killing, so realistically, you can be level 80 pretty damn quick if you're after it. In other words, you can get to level 80 in about 10 hours with no investment if you know your way around, so if you're generous it might take 40 hours on the first character.

That means if you told a person it would take them 80-140 hours to reach lvl 80 and the person quit - you're also to blame, for giving the person a runescape-like leveling estimate...

 

 

 

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"DMO.4158" said:

> It's after you hit 80 that the game typically gets boring because there isn't any endgame or vertical upgrades to chase.

>

> This is the real threshold where people quit.

>

> I have a friend who I convinced to play with me again and the first thing he asks me on discord

> "How do I upgrade my gear?"

>

> "You don't."

>

> "Then what's the point?"

 

I was under the impression that at one point ANet was trying to create a game that people would play because they had fun playing it. That was the point.

 

I don't get the point of gear upgrades. So, you get a gear upgrade, play for a short time, and need to do it all over again? Pointless.

[Daddicus.6128]

I would say the only thing that needs to change is attitude. I don't find it boring at all.

[DMO.4158]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > @"DMO.4158" said:

> > It's after you hit 80 that the game typically gets boring because there isn't any endgame or vertical upgrades to chase.

> >

> > This is the real threshold where people quit.

> >

> > I have a friend who I convinced to play with me again and the first thing he asks me on discord

> > "How do I upgrade my gear?"

> >

> > "You don't."

> >

> > "Then what's the point?"

>

> I was under the impression that at one point ANet was trying to create a game that people would play because they had fun playing it. That was the point.

>

> I don't get the point of gear upgrades. So, you get a gear upgrade, play for a short time, and need to do it all over again? Pointless.

 

I'd say you were in the minority considering the success of games like world of war craft, ever quest etc. I mean gw2 is healthy and doing well but no where near the player base or popularity of loot driven games.

 

So if you're not chasing upgrades to stats. Which is kind of the entire point of an rpg, what exactly are you doing?

Enlighten me. I'm not being a dick I'm honestly curious.

 

If gear isn't important in gw2, why did they add ascended and legendary gear?

Why did they add raid content with gear checks?

Everything about endgame is acquisition of better items whether you choose to chase or not. But don't act like there isn't power creep and gear to chase.

[Ashen.2907]

I think that the most impactful thing we could do would be to not allow our friends to think that mundane tasks such as gathering apples are the leveling experience. Dont exaggerate the time required to level. Let them know that there is a lot more emphasis placed on interesting things to do and see as you level than in some games where there is a race to endgame.

 

Try to explain how the game is different so that they have an opportunity to explore those differences rather than feel that the game is missing something by not being about something else.

 

To be honest OP I think that you contributed to pushing your friends away, even in unintentionally.

[runeblade.7514]

45 of my characters are level 80. And you know what OP, I think you are right. Leveling is boring for me.

 

The reason for me is that I am stuck with ugly armor. I want to look fabulous but it cost me money from transmutation stones to do so when leveling. I do not want to look like [this.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Worn_Chain_armor "this.") for level 1-79.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"DMO.4158" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> > - snip -

>

> I'd say you were in the minority considering the success of games like world of war craft, ever quest etc. I mean gw2 is healthy and doing well but no where near the player base or popularity of loot driven games.

 

Yeah, I know I'm in the minority. I've never liked the "your character is weak as a kitten without 'magical' gear" thing going back to PNP D&D. If that doesn't put me in the minority, then nothing does.

 

I just don't see the point. Gear chases are no less busy work than cosmetic chases like L. Weapons. Your stats go up, sure, but so do the stats of the other players in competitive modes and the stats of mobs in PvE. You're on the same footing as you were except if you revisit old zones where not only is your gear better, but in most games you out-level everything.

 

> So if you're not chasing upgrades to stats. Which is kind of the entire point of an rpg, what exactly are you doing?

> Enlighten me. I'm not being a kitten I'm honestly curious.

 

I play RPG's for story and diversion. Neither requires busy work. The gear upgrades in games like Dragon Age were minor, earned in the course of doing the story. This is very different than what's on offer in a gear churn MMO "RPG" where the gear churn is the main event. In GW, I had max stat gear very early on in character progression. I then spent more than two years doing all sorts of things: vanquishing in hard mode, titles, harder content zone clears, alliance battles, and story. None of it required a gear chase. I can do the same thing in GW2, as exotics and ascended trinkets are easy to get.

 

> If gear isn't important in gw2, why did they add ascended and legendary gear?

 

Legendary gear was intended to be cosmetic, with its stats being equal to those on the top gear tier (originally, Exotic). Ascended was put in because: ANet tried to attract MMO fans from those other games where the gear chase was the point of the game. As a single tier, it was basically a compromise that appealed to some people, but alienated people like your friend and people like me. The other reasons were: the need for reasons to fuel demand for crafting mats to enliven the in-game- economy; and the failure of the cosmetic-driven endgame to retain interest. The last one was largely due to the options for for cosmetic pursuits being nowhere near robust enough to fuel a cosmetic pursuit endgame like the one in the original GW game; the complexity of armor skin creation by the ANet artists; the need to sell cosmetics in the gem store to fund development and keep the doors open.

 

> Why did they add raid content with gear checks?

 

They added raids for one of the same reasons they adopted Ascended -- to try to appeal to the mainstream MMO audience.

 

> Everything about endgame is acquisition of better items whether you choose to chase or not. But don't act like there isn't power creep and gear to chase.

 

I am not acting like it doesn't exist. It's just not my thing. It does, at least to a point. However, what chase there is is really not enough for the die-hard MMO gear-chaser.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Map exploration gives lots of exp., i think many guess the selling point of map exploration in Gw2. the first thing i did in gw2, when i didnt know what to do here was a world completion.

[Manpag.6421]

I've been levelling a new character over the past couple of days; with an XP booster, food & utility buffs (all perfectly obtainable for a new player), I manage a level about every 5 minutes. That's level 80 in 8 hours: one dedicated day's play, or just over a week if you were to play just one hour a day. That's really not much of a grind, especially compared to other games. This seems a bit of a non-issue; if new players don't have even that level of patience or commitment, they aren't going to enjoy other aspects of the game that are similarly, if not MORE grindy (HoT/PoF masteries?).