Gift of Battle

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> > >

> >

> > Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

>

> Exactly this

>

> I don't think i prefer pver went into wvw for ktrain, but i rather see new blood added after they tried and bond to the mode.

 

Yup. True story. Although I suppose you'll still consider me "ktrain pver" as I still don't like roaming. But large-scale fights, I quickly fell in love with these when I went WvW-ing for GoB and I keep returning to WvW for them.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

> >

> > Exactly this

> >

> > I don't think i prefer pver went into wvw for ktrain, but i rather see new blood added after they tried and bond to the mode.

>

> Yup. True story. Although I suppose you'll still consider me "ktrain pver" as I still don't like roaming. But large-scale fights, I quickly fell in love with these when I went WvW-ing for GoB and I keep returning to WvW for them.

 

Taking objective for your server, avoid losing fight if enemy is stronger is not Ktrain in my book. Trading objective, actively give up defend even it is possible to defend sound shady to me, i think you are fine if going with zerg. It is wvw because there are roaming, scouting, small scale battle, zerg fight and blob fight, taking away one of the element is doing harm to the mode.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > > > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > > > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

> > >

> > > Exactly this

> > >

> > > I don't think i prefer pver went into wvw for ktrain, but i rather see new blood added after they tried and bond to the mode.

> >

> > Yup. True story. Although I suppose you'll still consider me "ktrain pver" as I still don't like roaming. But large-scale fights, I quickly fell in love with these when I went WvW-ing for GoB and I keep returning to WvW for them.

>

> Taking objective for your server, avoid losing fight if enemy is stronger is not Ktrain in my book. Trading objective, actively give up defend even it is possible to defend sound shady to me, i think you are fine if going with zerg. It is wvw because there are roaming, scouting, small scale battle, zerg fight and blob fight, taking away one of the element is doing harm to the mode.

 

Oh, that was nicely summed up. Cheers!

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> >

>

> Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

 

That's what happened to me. Except it wasn't the GoB, it was the mini dolyak from the Season 1 meta-achievement. I had always intended to try WvW but it wasn't high on my priority list and I always found other things to do instead. Then I found out about the dolyak and since I collect mini pets that meant I had to do it. Because I had just over a month to do it, and because the achievements required things like capturing keeps and towers staying out of the fight doing what I could alone was not an option, I had to jump straight in and the Edge of the Mists didn't exist back then, so it had to be on the 'real' maps.

 

At first I had no idea what I was doing. The map was an incomprehensible mess of symbols and colours, notifications kept coming up that made no sense to me and the activity in chat was just as bad. But if I couldn't find a commander to follow I'd just wander around doing map completion (which back then was necessary to get the Gift of Exploration), and learning where things were and how to get from one place to another. I also learned early on that I could take ruins, control points on roads and camps solo.

 

When there was a commander I'd follow them and after about a week I decided to step up and be the idiot asking things like "Why can't we attack the gate?" "Why shouldn't I take supply from the keep?" "Why are we just standing here?" etc. Maybe I got lucky with my server (thanks Desolation) but for every silly answer I'd get at least one informative one, which helped me learn what was going on. Things I'd never know otherwise, like we're just standing here because we have a 'scout' on that hill who has just told the commander a massive enemy zerg is coming this way and if we stay here they'll miss us and we can slip in behind them and take their undefended keep.

 

At the end of the month I had my mini dolyak, about 70% WvW map completion and the rank of 'veteran' (which seemed a bit silly). But maybe most importantly I now knew not only that I could play WvW but also which bits I enjoyed (e.g. I prefer playing on enemy borderlands, followed by the home border, followed by EB) and how to read the map and chat when I first got in to work out what to do.

 

I still don't play it often (I'm only up to rank 130-something) but since then if I've needed something which requires playing WvW I've had no hesitation about jumping in to get it, because I know I can do it.

[Plautze.6290]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> > >

> >

> > Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

>

> That's what happened to me. Except it wasn't the GoB, it was the mini dolyak from the Season 1 meta-achievement. I had always intended to try WvW but it wasn't high on my priority list and I always found other things to do instead. Then I found out about the dolyak and since I collect mini pets that meant I had to do it. Because I had just over a month to do it, and because the achievements required things like capturing keeps and towers staying out of the fight doing what I could alone was not an option, I had to jump straight in and the Edge of the Mists didn't exist back then, so it had to be on the 'real' maps.

>

> At first I had no idea what I was doing. The map was an incomprehensible mess of symbols and colours, notifications kept coming up that made no sense to me and the activity in chat was just as bad. But if I couldn't find a commander to follow I'd just wander around doing map completion (which back then was necessary to get the Gift of Exploration), and learning where things were and how to get from one place to another. I also learned early on that I could take ruins, control points on roads and camps solo.

>

> When there was a commander I'd follow them and after about a week I decided to step up and be the idiot asking things like "Why can't we attack the gate?" "Why shouldn't I take supply from the keep?" "Why are we just standing here?" etc. Maybe I got lucky with my server (thanks Desolation) but for every silly answer I'd get at least one informative one, which helped me learn what was going on. Things I'd never know otherwise, like we're just standing here because we have a 'scout' on that hill who has just told the commander a massive enemy zerg is coming this way and if we stay here they'll miss us and we can slip in behind them and take their undefended keep.

>

> At the end of the month I had my mini dolyak, about 70% WvW map completion and the rank of 'veteran' (which seemed a bit silly). But maybe most importantly I now knew not only that I could play WvW but also which bits I enjoyed (e.g. I prefer playing on enemy borderlands, followed by the home border, followed by EB) and how to read the map and chat when I first got in to work out what to do.

>

> I still don't play it often (I'm only up to rank 130-something) but since then if I've needed something which requires playing WvW I've had no hesitation about jumping in to get it, because I know I can do it.

 

I couldn't have written that better, except I'm still rank 34 or something. I mainly did WvW for the BoH and dungeon reward tracks to get my very first complete set of one-stat-combi exotic. Good times! Will go back to WvW for the GoB and I actually look forward to it to see what has changed and getting one-shotted by some Mesmer :#

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Plautze.6290" said:

> > > @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > > I have been actively avoid any player foe until i am around 55 wvw rank where i won my first 1v1 fight in wvw. Then i started to love it and hug it until now.

> > >

> >

> > Perhaps that's the whole point of "gating" GoB behind WvW? You never know if you're gonna like something unless you try.

>

> That's what happened to me. Except it wasn't the GoB, it was the mini dolyak from the Season 1 meta-achievement. I had always intended to try WvW but it wasn't high on my priority list and I always found other things to do instead. Then I found out about the dolyak and since I collect mini pets that meant I had to do it. Because I had just over a month to do it, and because the achievements required things like capturing keeps and towers staying out of the fight doing what I could alone was not an option, I had to jump straight in and the Edge of the Mists didn't exist back then, so it had to be on the 'real' maps.

>

> At first I had no idea what I was doing. The map was an incomprehensible mess of symbols and colours, notifications kept coming up that made no sense to me and the activity in chat was just as bad. But if I couldn't find a commander to follow I'd just wander around doing map completion (which back then was necessary to get the Gift of Exploration), and learning where things were and how to get from one place to another. I also learned early on that I could take ruins, control points on roads and camps solo.

>

> When there was a commander I'd follow them and after about a week I decided to step up and be the idiot asking things like "Why can't we attack the gate?" "Why shouldn't I take supply from the keep?" "Why are we just standing here?" etc. Maybe I got lucky with my server (thanks Desolation) but for every silly answer I'd get at least one informative one, which helped me learn what was going on. Things I'd never know otherwise, like we're just standing here because we have a 'scout' on that hill who has just told the commander a massive enemy zerg is coming this way and if we stay here they'll miss us and we can slip in behind them and take their undefended keep.

>

> At the end of the month I had my mini dolyak, about 70% WvW map completion and the rank of 'veteran' (which seemed a bit silly). But maybe most importantly I now knew not only that I could play WvW but also which bits I enjoyed (e.g. I prefer playing on enemy borderlands, followed by the home border, followed by EB) and how to read the map and chat when I first got in to work out what to do.

>

> I still don't play it often (I'm only up to rank 130-something) but since then if I've needed something which requires playing WvW I've had no hesitation about jumping in to get it, because I know I can do it.

 

Speaking of gift of exploration, thats bring me some intersesting memories.

 

I remember when i was working on my first map completion for the gift of exploration, i was able to map most map include EBG as our server has dominant the other 2 for 1 or 2 week, only 1 poi was missing, which is the NWT on enemy borderland. Then i have been tracking the wvw status for WEEKS still never saw once belong to my color.

 

I asked on map if anyone is going for that tower, somebody told me to form a party and capture it, wow, I was not even interested in wvw back then, i remember once saw 20+ players hitting a tower gate with their weapons, without a single siege for over 10 mins, am i supposed to find someone to hit that gate for 15mins to take the tower?What a boring mode i said to myself. XD

 

Be glad we don't have to do that for map completion nowadays.

[Rauderi.8706]

Just to throw some math at it for equality on both sides:

 

There's 31 maps to explore for world completion. Basic assumption is 1 hour per map.

Allegedly, 6-7 hours for a WvW track. (It's laughable, but the assumption is sustained for quick math.)

 

So it wouldn't be untoward to say 5 GoB -> 1 GoE is reasonable given the time expectation.

Similarly, 1 GoB -> 4 GoB. (Rounding error shaved off as a 'broker tax' for trading in time for one to time for another.)

 

 

[DeadlyBanana.3841]

My only problem with wvw is that it is gear related. I always found that adding gear to a competitive game mode is bad for the game. Same with adding bonuses to leveling. In a competitive environment the only thing that should matter is skill(and building your character ofc like you do on spvp). Even if a player is given a measly 2% over me it doesn't change that fact that it makes the game feel unfair.

 

That being said gift of battle is extremely easy to obtain. Just be a leech and follow a commander while using range and being useless. That's how I got it. If I didn't need to buy a whole new set of gear just to be useful then I would have tried more. Just don't die because that fucks up everything for your guys. Stay far away and poke. If enemy starts getting close, run like a chicken.

[Dimi Gravedancer.1463]

> @"dolcolax.1268" said:

> should probably choose one: easy way to get gob or bring back map completion in wvw

 

I would gladly do map completion in WvW

[Dimi Gravedancer.1463]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> Going to sound odd, and doesnt always apply, but watch for unattended minipets. I have found that its not uncommon fo a stealthed thief to forget to stow his pet. It doesnt stealth with him. I have yet to run into a perma stealth mesmer though. Perhaps they are less common than stealthy thieves?

 

This though!!! It actually saved my butt a few times!!!!

[stone cold.8609]

I'm all for giving more options with how GoB (and GoE) can be obtained.

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

Ooh darlings, I was not saying anything about people doing collections. I was merely mentioning all the random pve things one needs to do for their selected legendary. I have made 12 legendary weapons, I see no issues with keeping the 1 wvw required piece. Since they removed the wvw map comp part from Gift of Exploration.

[jheryn.8390]

There are very few people who enjoy all three modes of the game.

 

Myself, I love PvE. Can take or leave WvW. Hate PvP.

 

What I don't do is complain about requirements to complete in game tasks for things I want.

 

I'll gladly do PvP if there is something I want that requires it. It's part of the game.

 

Don't want to do it? Learn to live without the item/achievement/etc. that requires it.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> It would make me more happy to have a PvE version of the Gift of Battle. Since I basically never engage in combat against other players in WvW to get the Gift, it feels like PvE for me anyway. I only kill guards or stop a caravan, take camps or claim land, or buy some nice cultural skin when spending badges gives you reward track xp.

>

> I would rather do something in open world though where nothing requires you to cover space for minutes without mount and mostly without gliding.

 

I'd also love it if they made a FoM reward track for WvW that offered all the loot available to the game mode so I'd never have step foot in that game mode Even giving a couple fractal levels per reward track completion, meaning if I completed 50 or so fractal tracks, I'd have max fractal level.

 

Somehow I don't think that's going to happen though.. which makes me now wonder, why, at the very least, is there no FoM reward track?

 

Perhaps another solution is allow the GoB to be sold on the market place. People whom play WvW regularly may be able to actually make some decent coin off it.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> > > You can get GoB without ever stepping foot outside of spawn in WvW, players can also get GoB playing semi AFK and not have to fight a single player, there is no reason to put it in other game modes, asking for GoB to be in another gamemode is like Asking GoE to be handed by not Exploring Open World.

> >

> > If its so easy to acquire it, that's even more reason to have more ways to get it.

>

> That makes absolutely zero sense, it’s so easy to acquire that there is absolutely no reason to put it in any other gamemode, currently it can take less than 4.5 hrs and no more than 8.5 hrs to complete if doing it the normal way, or it can be done with never stepping outside of spawn in WvW never having to worry about participation or chance of seeing scary enemies.

 

A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all.

[Zlater.6789]

I agree with OP. I think sPvP is a very good alternative.

 

Personally I hate that afk zerging crap that happens in WvW, it's just boring as hell and no offence, it takes almost 0 skill to follow a tag around in circles for a couple of hours. Although I give props to anyone that commands a zerg in WvW.

 

Then all of the plebs say "duuhhhh why not do roaming." Well I guess I'm forced to do that, but it's super unrewarding, the time between engagements is low, the amount of cheese crap and outnumbered teams just makes it annoying, not interesting, and all the while I am thinking "I could just be doing PvP."

 

There's dailies I guess too, but anyone worth their elitism in PvE spends their badges on infusions.

 

Well I guess it's a bit toxic of me to write it like that. But it's honestly just what I'm thinking deep down, whenever I go into WvW. Someone can change my mind though, I'm open.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

I agree that there is nothing wrong about gob locked behind wvw. I hate that you lose participation imidiatly when you leave wvw. Couldnt it be that it ticks even outside wvw if you stilk have participation?

 

Also some of you guys doesnt ubderstand that pve have many subgroups and not every pveer likes all of them.

 

I am playing pve all the time. I dont enjoy wvw but it is much more fun then world exploration and most of world boses for me. Thats why i was crafting hot legendary because it doesnt require gift of exploration. Now i am going for raid armor and ad infinitum because there is almost none openworld or pvp.

 

I know there were players coplaining that legendary armor is locked behind raids. Well core legendaries are locked behind open world. If you dont want to deal with something chose legendary that doesnt need it. I learned that wvw is not for and will try it in future after i have no negative fealings again.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> I agree with OP. I think sPvP is a very good alternative.

>

> Personally I hate that afk zerging crap that happens in WvW, it's just boring as hell and no offence, it takes almost 0 skill to follow a tag around in circles for a couple of hours. Although I give props to anyone that commands a zerg in WvW.

>

> Then all of the plebs say "duuhhhh why not do roaming." Well I guess I'm forced to do that, but it's super unrewarding, the time between engagements is low, the amount of cheese crap and outnumbered teams just makes it annoying, not interesting, and all the while I am thinking "I could just be doing PvP."

>

> There's dailies I guess too, but anyone worth their elitism in PvE spends their badges on infusions.

>

> Well I guess it's a bit toxic of me to write it like that. But it's honestly just what I'm thinking deep down, whenever I go into WvW. Someone can change my mind though, I'm open.

 

Depending on your class and server, blobbing can be different. What is your fav class? Thief/ranger? If so, you most likely wont be allowed to zerg, as those classes are roaming classes (they dont contribute to zerging as well as other classes do). Is your fav class necro/fb/spellbreaker/reve/ele? Zerging is your thing then, with a half proper build (no meta crap or whatever). Just dont go full zerk in a zerg (cause you will be constantly downed and your frustration will go through the roof). Get a tankier build, use exotic armor which is easier to get, follow a zerg and maybe you wont hate wvw that much anymore. But the most important thing to remember is this: Ignore all WvW elitists who spew insults/elitism. Hope this helps!

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

> @"Dimi Gravedancer.1463" said:

> I know many people out there are not fans of WvW. I know a I've quite a few people who were extremely angry when, as they put it "ANet is forcing me to do crap I absolutely hate, just so I can get a Legendary weapon" and they continue to say how it isn't worth it.

> So since we battle other players in WvW on a constant basis for our gift, do you think it would be possible to maybe add a Gift Of Battle Reward Track to PvP??

> I know a lot of people who would prefer to do PvP a lot more than WvW, because, and I am not trying to sound mean to anyone, there seems to be a lot of "Elitists" in WvW. Before anyone says it is true,** I was whispered on several occasions by commanders telling "Follow me or get off the map".**

>

and here I am wondering which server actually has "commanders" who finds time to find people that are not following him and whispering each of them separatelly.

 

yelling at pugs running after organised squads refusing to join ts and stuff and functionally being rally bots for the enemy in any bigger combat via say or map is believable but this sounds kinda...... who's got time for this really xD

[Pwent.2639]

due to pve being really dull can i just do my wvw completion instead of map completion?

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

>As I remember it WvW map completion was removed because WvW players kept complaining about people taking up the limited spaces in a WvW map and then not contributing anything because they were running around doing map completion.

 

WvW map completion was removed because Anet originally inteded to rotate the WvW maps around when they introduced Desert Borderlands, so getting map completion on what would've technically been temporary maps would have caused a lot of frustration. Rotation happened a couple of times of just having 3 Alpine then 3 Desert. Until a poll found that players preferred simultaneous borderlands. So we now have 1 desert map and 2 alpine.

 

WvW players complained about people zoning in to craft, which resulted in the crafting stations being removed from WvW.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"Pwent.2639" said:

> due to ~~pve~~ wvw being really dull can i just do my ~~wvw~~ pve completion instead of map completion?

FTFY. :)

 

I tease, but it's for perspective's sake. And I wholeheartedly support the idea.

Set an acceptable ratio of GoE <-> GoB exchange, and just let players do what they want to acquire either. I would merrily trade a GoE to never step into WvW again, and WvW folks could earn a GoE by just *playing the game* as they like.

 

Or just make those Gifts tradeable on the trading post. If I can pay someone for their PvP credit, I ought to be able to do the same for WvW.

 

I've been forced to try it, ANet. I don't enjoy it. It's boring and laborious. Enough *forcing* it already.

 

[levelmakerguru.7210]

OK lets get this right, Gift of battle I can deal with earning for it, but I don't do WvW, and to force me to do it is lame, I do PVP, why cannot I use shards of glory, or badges of honor, or able to scribe them or unlock a track, by only doing WvW track to get this gift you have killed the player into crafting anymore Legendary Weapons, "Good Going", smart move, you need to have more options for this, World exploration wasn't enough, the countless hours, days, weeks of mapping and fighting your way through wasn't enough. WvW is reallyh a mindless mechanic in which many people steamroll thru the map killing things. anyway Anet you need to change this, like in the next patch, because of this oversight all this gold I used to get the Gift of ............................. I'm poor now...... with no progression.

 

thanks

[Danikat.8537]

> @"levelmakerguru.7210" said:

> OK lets get this right, Gift of battle I can deal with earning for it, but I don't do WvW, and to force me to do it is lame, I do PVP, why cannot I use shards of glory, or badges of honor, or able to scribe them or unlock a track, by only doing WvW track to get this gift you have killed the player into crafting anymore Legendary Weapons, "Good Going", smart move, you need to have more options for this, World exploration wasn't enough, the countless hours, days, weeks of mapping and fighting your way through wasn't enough. WvW is reallyh a mindless mechanic in which many people steamroll thru the map killing things. anyway Anet you need to change this, like in the next patch, because of this oversight all this gold I used to get the Gift of ............................. I'm poor now...... with no progression.

>

> thanks

 

This is why people say to research what's involved in making a legendary weapon before you start. So you don't get any nasty surprises where you think you're almost finished and then find one of the last parts involves something you find very difficult or boring or whatever.

 

Since Anet are extremely unlikely to change it (especially by the next update, but I assume you knew that was unreasonable and it wasn't a serious request) I suggest checking out this topic which has various options for getting the Gift of Battle if you hate WvW: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/25167/guide-to-getting-the-gift-of-battle-for-wvw-newbies#latest

 

The first post is how to get it by actually playing, but there's various other options given after that. None of them are quick but they are easy and don't require following a zerg around the map. (Although that is one of the faster ways and if your only complaint is that it's 'mindless' compared to PvP then the best option for you might be to stick a movie on or listen to a pod cast or whatever you can do whilst mindlessly playing GW2 and just get it done.)

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Fundor.2098" said:

> Why do people expect we want an _easy and fast_ PvE way for getting the GoB?

> **Of course** it should still be a legendary reward for **hard work**. There could just be other more enjoyable ways of doing the hard work, than throwing people into game modes they absolutely detest.

>

> > @"DMO.4158" said:

> > Or are WvW people actually asking it remain exclusive so they can pad the numbers in WvW and have some easy noobs to kill?

>

> This.

 

Because if you look at how rewards in PvE work, they're either Tedious, Grindy, Tediously Grindy, or just a time investment with low effort. Gift of Exploration is just an exercise in attention span..... it used to be a Reward for.... well... "Exploration"- with a map designed around the idea of poking every nook and cranny until the invisible wall hits. But no one cares about exploring places anymore..... people just see maps as indications of where they find farming spots.

 

I would consider Raids to be a serious challenge....... if not for the fact that once you beat it, the game demands you do them 140 more times over the course of 28 weeks to get a real reward. By the time you've met that goal, Raids are nothing more then part of your weekly routine; and I feel the game suffers from that repetition as "burn out".

 

Everything else is just farming gold at whatever map yields the best output that month, or farming map currencies that are exclusive to that area. Other then barrier for entry for Raids, nothing is actually anything close to being considered **hard work**. They aren't even Labor intensive.... its just "Time consuming". Its not about whats "hard work" or even "Enoyable"..... its merely people trying to find the **path of least resistance**.